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NFL begins exploring Super Bowl XLIX relocation options (1 Viewer)

netnalp

Footballguy
Even as momentum continues to build against Arizona's controversial bill that would allow businesses to deny service to gay couples on religious grounds, the NFL on Wednesday morning began investigating the necessary steps to move next season's Super Bowl from the Phoenix area, if the proposal becomes law, a source close to the situation confirmed.

The Tampa Bay area finished as the runner-up and was the only other finalist in the bidding for Super Bowl XLIX, which was awarded to Arizona in October 2011, and would in all likelihood be the NFL's first option for relocating the game at this relatively late date. Next season's Super Bowl is scheduled to be played at University of Phoenix Stadium in suburban Glendale, Ariz., but the religious rights measure known as Senate Bill 1062 might jeopardize the area's host duties.

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has until the end of the day Saturday to veto the bill, sign it into law, or ignore it. While a host of Arizona business leaders this week have urged Brewer to veto the proposal, the NFL is taking seriously the possibility that it will become law, likely prompting the league to pull the plug on an Arizona Super Bowl for the second time in its history.

The NFL moved its 1993 Super Bowl from the Phoenix area to the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, Calif., in reaction to Arizona voting down the effort to establish a state holiday in honor of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. in the fall of 1990. After the King holiday measure passed in 1992, the NFL awarded its 1996 Super Bowl to Tempe's Sun Devil Stadium.

Could history be repeating itself in Arizona's always hotly contested political climate? The NFL remains hopeful of the bill's demise, but the league's senior level staff has begun grappling with the daunting logistical scenario of moving its showcase event elsewhere less than a year before the game is played, and after 28 months of planning have already gone into the Arizona effort.

"No one wants to do this, but if the league's hand is forced, it would have to begin preparing for that process,'' the source close to the situation said. "If this doesn't get vetoed, it has to know, what has to be done next? That discussion has begun.

"Two weeks ago no one would have been discussing who finished second in the 2014 Super Bowl bid process. So that's what changed. The NFL has to know the possibility, however remote, that it would have to move the game and begin preparations to do that. It would be imprudent not to begin that process.''

As in the awarding process, the final decision to move the Super Bowl would fall to NFL team owners, and 24 of the 32 ownership groups would have to vote in favor of such an option. The Tampa Bay area has hosted four previous Super Bowls, with the most recent in 2009, the year after the game was last played in Arizona. A second ballot was needed before Arizona prevailed in the voting in October 2011, with neither bid gaining the necessary three-fourths vote on the first ballot. Arizona won on a simple majority vote on the second ballot.

The role of hosting a Super Bowl has grown to a monstrously sized operation and the logistics of moving the game at this point would be considerably more complex than they were when the NFL stripped the game from Arizona in the early '90s. The first of hundreds of steps would be making sure there are no conflicts with the use of the new stadium site next winter -- Tampa's Raymond James Stadium -- and ensuring the area's community and political leaders are open to pinch-hitting on such short notice.

The league has begun reviewing the details of Tampa Bay's host bid of late 2011 and will take steps to put an accelerated relocation plan in place, should Arizona's SB 1062 become law and the league's owners vote to move the game. Tampa Bay is seen as the league's first option for the substitute host duties, but it is by no means the NFL's only potential site.

"It's a big undertaking and one the league would very much like to avoid,'' the source said. "It'd be incredibly logistically challenging to pull it off and no one's even sure if it's possible. Some expert would have to make a decision on that at some point, but the game's going to be played somewhere next year.''

The NFL has not taken a public stance for or against the bill, other than issuing a statement this week that pointed out its "policies emphasize tolerance and inclusiveness, and prohibit discrimination based on age, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, or any other improper standard.'' But the league feels confident that its message to Gov. Brewer has been conveyed by both the Arizona Super Bowl host committee, and the management of the host club, the Arizona Cardinals. Both issued statements of opposition to the bill in recent days.

Those two local entities certainly represent the league's sentiments, and for now, with the bill still on Brewer's desk, the NFL does not want to appear to be exerting any overt pressure on the governor's decision-making process -- other than starting to identify the next steps in the what-if scenario of moving the game.

Losing the Super Bowl would actually represent a double whammy for Arizona, because the NFL is leaning toward holding its all-star game, the Pro Bowl, in the same city as the Super Bowl next winter. No matter where the Super Bowl is played. Though no final decisions have been made -- and there's still a shot the game could return to its near-annual home in Honolulu -- the Pro Bowl will probably be played in Glendale the Sunday before the Super Bowl, as a more high-profile kickoff to Super Bowl week. The league tried that format in early 2010, in South Florida, the week before the Saints beat the Colts in Super Bowl XLIV.

With the league encouraged by the improved competitiveness and quality of play in last season's all-star exhibition, played in Hawaii in January with a new draft format for the rosters, the Pro Bowl is likely to continue -- a fate that seemed uncertain two years ago when commissioner Roger Goodell discussed doing away with the event. But the NFL has said the Pro Bowl held in South Florida four years ago was its highest-attended all-star game of recent vintage, with better sponsorship and some Super Bowl week buzz created by an actual game, rather than just the two Super Bowl teams arriving and deplaning the previous Sunday.

With the Pro Bowl in Arizona likely, the NFL hopes the game serves as yet another carrot at the end of the stick for Arizona as the Super Bowl host, in that the all-star game would generate that much more in tourism dollars and exposure for the Phoenix area. Many Arizona business leaders have come out strongly against the bill, believing it would deal a significant blow to economic growth in a state that has been hit hard by unemployment in recent years. The estimated economic impact of the Super Bowl being played in Arizona in 2008 was more than $500 million, according to Cardinals team president Michael Bidwill, who has said he expects even greater Super Bowl-related economic impact in 2015.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20140226/super-bowl-xlix-relocation-arizona/#ixzz2uTD4taHD
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed the bill:

TUCSON — Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed a controversial bill that would have bolstered a business owner’s right to refuse service to gays and others on the basis of religion

.

The move comes after an intense national outcry by the gay community, its supporters, business owners and Arizona political leaders, who urged the governor to veto SB 1062.

In a televised address from Phoenix, Brewer said the bill was worded too broadly and could result in "unintended and negative consequences" for the state.

Brewer said SB 1062 did not address a “specific or pressing concern” and that it "has the potential to create more problems than it purports to solve.”

Critics had described the bill as anti-gay, unconstitutional and divisive — and potentially harmful to Arizona’s economy and reputation.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-arizona-gay-brewer-20140226,0,1065924.story#ixzz2uTtp3vbh
 
Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed the bill:

TUCSON — Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed a controversial bill that would have bolstered a business owner’s right to refuse service to gays and others on the basis of religion

.

The move comes after an intense national outcry by the gay community, its supporters, business owners and Arizona political leaders, who urged the governor to veto SB 1062.

In a televised address from Phoenix, Brewer said the bill was worded too broadly and could result in "unintended and negative consequences" for the state.

Brewer said SB 1062 did not address a “specific or pressing concern” and that it "has the potential to create more problems than it purports to solve.”

Critics had described the bill as anti-gay, unconstitutional and divisive — and potentially harmful to Arizona’s economy and reputation.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-arizona-gay-brewer-20140226,0,1065924.story#ixzz2uTtp3vbh
No brainer for her political career. How could a state legislature even allow this to get all the way to this level? Now Craig James is standing behind his religious beliefs for his homophobic statements. Hate is hate.

Maybe they should stand behind the part where Jesus says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ" or the part of the constitution where it says "All men are created equal." Bible thumpers stop hiding behind the good book and politicians start following the constitution you were elected to protect.

 
Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed the bill:

TUCSON Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed a controversial bill that would have bolstered a business owners right to refuse service to gays and others on the basis of religion

.

The move comes after an intense national outcry by the gay community, its supporters, business owners and Arizona political leaders, who urged the governor to veto SB 1062.

In a televised address from Phoenix, Brewer said the bill was worded too broadly and could result in "unintended and negative consequences" for the state.

Brewer said SB 1062 did not address a specific or pressing concern and that it "has the potential to create more problems than it purports to solve.

Critics had described the bill as anti-gay, unconstitutional and divisive and potentially harmful to Arizonas economy and reputation.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-arizona-gay-brewer-20140226,0,1065924.story#ixzz2uTtp3vbh
No brainer for her political career. How could a state legislature even allow this to get all the way to this level? Now Craig James is standing behind his religious beliefs for his homophobic statements. Hate is hate.

Maybe they should stand behind the part where Jesus says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ" or the part of the constitution where it says "All men are created equal." Bible thumpers stop hiding behind the good book and politicians start following the constitution you were elected to protect.
The scripture you quoted has nothing to do with homosexuality.
 
Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed the bill:

TUCSON Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed a controversial bill that would have bolstered a business owners right to refuse service to gays and others on the basis of religion

.

The move comes after an intense national outcry by the gay community, its supporters, business owners and Arizona political leaders, who urged the governor to veto SB 1062.

In a televised address from Phoenix, Brewer said the bill was worded too broadly and could result in "unintended and negative consequences" for the state.

Brewer said SB 1062 did not address a specific or pressing concern and that it "has the potential to create more problems than it purports to solve.

Critics had described the bill as anti-gay, unconstitutional and divisive and potentially harmful to Arizonas economy and reputation.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-arizona-gay-brewer-20140226,0,1065924.story#ixzz2uTtp3vbh
No brainer for her political career. How could a state legislature even allow this to get all the way to this level? Now Craig James is standing behind his religious beliefs for his homophobic statements. Hate is hate.

Maybe they should stand behind the part where Jesus says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ" or the part of the constitution where it says "All men are created equal." Bible thumpers stop hiding behind the good book and politicians start following the constitution you were elected to protect.
The scripture you quoted has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Nor did Jesus say it. But he's on a roll!
 
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.

 
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.

 
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?

 
Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed the bill:

TUCSON Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed a controversial bill that would have bolstered a business owners right to refuse service to gays and others on the basis of religion

.

The move comes after an intense national outcry by the gay community, its supporters, business owners and Arizona political leaders, who urged the governor to veto SB 1062.

In a televised address from Phoenix, Brewer said the bill was worded too broadly and could result in "unintended and negative consequences" for the state.

Brewer said SB 1062 did not address a specific or pressing concern and that it "has the potential to create more problems than it purports to solve.

Critics had described the bill as anti-gay, unconstitutional and divisive and potentially harmful to Arizonas economy and reputation.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-arizona-gay-brewer-20140226,0,1065924.story#ixzz2uTtp3vbh
No brainer for her political career. How could a state legislature even allow this to get all the way to this level? Now Craig James is standing behind his religious beliefs for his homophobic statements. Hate is hate.

Maybe they should stand behind the part where Jesus says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ" or the part of the constitution where it says "All men are created equal." Bible thumpers stop hiding behind the good book and politicians start following the constitution you were elected to protect.
The scripture you quoted has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Nor did Jesus say it. But he's on a roll!
Jesus never said anything. Want to take a guess why?

 
Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed the bill:

TUCSON Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed a controversial bill that would have bolstered a business owners right to refuse service to gays and others on the basis of religion

.

The move comes after an intense national outcry by the gay community, its supporters, business owners and Arizona political leaders, who urged the governor to veto SB 1062.

In a televised address from Phoenix, Brewer said the bill was worded too broadly and could result in "unintended and negative consequences" for the state.

Brewer said SB 1062 did not address a specific or pressing concern and that it "has the potential to create more problems than it purports to solve.

Critics had described the bill as anti-gay, unconstitutional and divisive and potentially harmful to Arizonas economy and reputation.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-arizona-gay-brewer-20140226,0,1065924.story#ixzz2uTtp3vbh
No brainer for her political career. How could a state legislature even allow this to get all the way to this level? Now Craig James is standing behind his religious beliefs for his homophobic statements. Hate is hate.

Maybe they should stand behind the part where Jesus says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ" or the part of the constitution where it says "All men are created equal." Bible thumpers stop hiding behind the good book and politicians start following the constitution you were elected to protect.
The scripture you quoted has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Nor did Jesus say it. But he's on a roll!
Jesus never said anything. Want to take a guess why?
No, not really
 
Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed the bill:

TUCSON Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed a controversial bill that would have bolstered a business owners right to refuse service to gays and others on the basis of religion

.

The move comes after an intense national outcry by the gay community, its supporters, business owners and Arizona political leaders, who urged the governor to veto SB 1062.

In a televised address from Phoenix, Brewer said the bill was worded too broadly and could result in "unintended and negative consequences" for the state.

Brewer said SB 1062 did not address a specific or pressing concern and that it "has the potential to create more problems than it purports to solve.

Critics had described the bill as anti-gay, unconstitutional and divisive and potentially harmful to Arizonas economy and reputation.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-arizona-gay-brewer-20140226,0,1065924.story#ixzz2uTtp3vbh
No brainer for her political career. How could a state legislature even allow this to get all the way to this level? Now Craig James is standing behind his religious beliefs for his homophobic statements. Hate is hate.

Maybe they should stand behind the part where Jesus says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ" or the part of the constitution where it says "All men are created equal." Bible thumpers stop hiding behind the good book and politicians start following the constitution you were elected to protect.
The scripture you quoted has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Nor did Jesus say it. But he's on a roll!
Jesus never said anything. Want to take a guess why?
No, not really
Don't be scared.

 
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?
They did the exact same thing when they didn't vote to make MLK day a thing; didn't seem to hamper the league one bit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/02/26/why-the-nfl-moved-the-super-bowl-from-arizona-in-1990/

 
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?
They did the exact same thing when they didn't vote to make MLK day a thing; didn't seem to hamper the league one bit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/02/26/why-the-nfl-moved-the-super-bowl-from-arizona-in-1990/
And Bronco Billy's dad hasn't watched an NFL game since then. :hophead:

 
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?
They did the exact same thing when they didn't vote to make MLK day a thing; didn't seem to hamper the league one bit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/02/26/why-the-nfl-moved-the-super-bowl-from-arizona-in-1990/
And Bronco Billy's dad hasn't watched an NFL game since then. :hophead:
:yes:

 
MoveToSkypager said:
squistion said:
biju said:
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?
They did the exact same thing when they didn't vote to make MLK day a thing; didn't seem to hamper the league one bit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/02/26/why-the-nfl-moved-the-super-bowl-from-arizona-in-1990/
And Bronco Billy's dad hasn't watched an NFL game since then. :hophead:
:yes:
You guys do understand what this is about , right? Tell me you do. Your cute little snippy comments seem otherwise. AZ drafted a law that prevents the government from coercing a business to participate in a private transaction that they would otherwise refuse on the basis of fundamental religious beliefs - you know, the beliefs that are specifically protected from the government by the First Amendment. It shouldn't even have to be drafted but there are judges who have determined that the First Amendment takes a back seat to the "rights" of gay couples.

Let's be very clear - this is not institutional discrimination, this pertains to the First Amendment rights of individuals. You may not agree with the individual's position - personally I don't and think it's a dumb business decision - but that's irrelevant to the issue.

So a person's fundamental beliefs are secondary to the other party's desire to purchase a good or service. Do you see where this logic leads? An anti-gun activist could be coerced by the government and forced to cater a NRA event. A member of PETA who owns a pet store could be coerced by the government to sell animals to a laboratory for experimentation. Hell, those aren't even beliefs specifically protected by the Constitution.

Is that where you want the government to go? To have that kind of power? And before you jump on the discrimination bandwagon, make sure you understand also that the government discriminates institutionally all the time, and that's okay too. Ever try to recover your SS money before retirement age? Discrimination. Differing tax rates based solely upon differing income? Discrimination. It happens all the time. That dog don't hunt.

Despite the incredibly short sighted knee jerk reaction by those against this, the NFL IMO has no business entering into this fray. If they choose to do so, I 'll skip it. Believe me, life would go on without the NFL being a part of it. Stick to the entertainment business.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
MoveToSkypager said:
squistion said:
biju said:
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?
They did the exact same thing when they didn't vote to make MLK day a thing; didn't seem to hamper the league one bit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/02/26/why-the-nfl-moved-the-super-bowl-from-arizona-in-1990/
And Bronco Billy's dad hasn't watched an NFL game since then. :hophead:
:yes:
Despite the incredibly short sighted knee jerk reaction by those against this, the NFL IMO has no business entering into this fray. If they choose to do so, I 'll skip it. Believe me, life would go on without the NFL being a part of it. Stick to the entertainment business.
Fully agree. The Super Bowl is a money making machine. Gays don't wear badges that say "Hey look at me, I'M GAY". Even if they did, do you really thing that the stadium or NFL would turn that money away? The NFL would welcome them through the doors to the first beer stand. This legislature had nothing to do with the the NFL or entertainment. It's a local issue and it should have stayed that way.

 
MoveToSkypager said:
squistion said:
biju said:
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?
They did the exact same thing when they didn't vote to make MLK day a thing; didn't seem to hamper the league one bit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/02/26/why-the-nfl-moved-the-super-bowl-from-arizona-in-1990/
And Bronco Billy's dad hasn't watched an NFL game since then. :hophead:
:yes:
Despite the incredibly short sighted knee jerk reaction by those against this, the NFL IMO has no business entering into this fray. If they choose to do so, I 'll skip it. Believe me, life would go on without the NFL being a part of it. Stick to the entertainment business.
Fully agree. The Super Bowl is a money making machine. Gays don't wear badges that say "Hey look at me, I'M GAY". Even if they did, do you really thing that the stadium or NFL would turn that money away? The NFL would welcome them through the doors to the first beer stand. This legislature had nothing to do with the the NFL or entertainment. It's a local issue and it should have stayed that way.
I find it ironic you guys are arguing for the rights of a business to pick and choose their customer based on beliefs but find it reprehensible for a business to pick and choose their venue based on beliefs.

 
MoveToSkypager said:
squistion said:
biju said:
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?
They did the exact same thing when they didn't vote to make MLK day a thing; didn't seem to hamper the league one bit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/02/26/why-the-nfl-moved-the-super-bowl-from-arizona-in-1990/
And Bronco Billy's dad hasn't watched an NFL game since then. :hophead:
:yes:
You guys do understand what this is about , right? Tell me you do. Your cute little snippy comments seem otherwise.AZ drafted a law that prevents the government from coercing a business to participate in a private transaction that they would otherwise refuse on the basis of fundamental religious beliefs - you know, the beliefs that are specifically protected from the government by the First Amendment. It shouldn't even have to be drafted but there are judges who have determined that the First Amendment takes a back seat to the "rights" of gay couples.

Let's be very clear - this is not institutional discrimination, this pertains to the First Amendment rights of individuals. You may not agree with the individual's position - personally I don't and think it's a dumb business decision - but that's irrelevant to the issue.

So a person's fundamental beliefs are secondary to the other party's desire to purchase a good or service. Do you see where this logic leads? An anti-gun activist could be coerced by the government and forced to cater a NRA event. A member of PETA who owns a pet store could be coerced by the government to sell animals to a laboratory for experimentation. Hell, those aren't even beliefs specifically protected by the Constitution.

Is that where you want the government to go? To have that kind of power? And before you jump on the discrimination bandwagon, make sure you understand also that the government discriminates institutionally all the time, and that's okay too. Ever try to recover your SS money before retirement age? Discrimination. Differing tax rates based solely upon differing income? Discrimination. It happens all the time. That dog don't hunt.

Despite the incredibly short sighted knee jerk reaction by those against this, the NFL IMO has no business entering into this fray. If they choose to do so, I 'll skip it. Believe me, life would go on without the NFL being a part of it. Stick to the entertainment business.
At the risk of "peeing in the Shark Pool" by discussing politics here, do you even know the text of the 1st Amendment?

Here it is:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
What religion prohibits its' followers from selling his/her goods to homosexuals? None that I know of (and twisting scripture, or lines from the Koran, or other holy books doesn't count). Since that is the case, the 1st Amendment doesn't apply here.

What this is really about is conservatives trying to make illegal discrimination, legal.

They failed, as they should have.

 
MoveToSkypager said:
squistion said:
biju said:
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?
They did the exact same thing when they didn't vote to make MLK day a thing; didn't seem to hamper the league one bit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/02/26/why-the-nfl-moved-the-super-bowl-from-arizona-in-1990/
And Bronco Billy's dad hasn't watched an NFL game since then. :hophead:
:yes:
Despite the incredibly short sighted knee jerk reaction by those against this, the NFL IMO has no business entering into this fray. If they choose to do so, I 'll skip it. Believe me, life would go on without the NFL being a part of it. Stick to the entertainment business.
Fully agree. The Super Bowl is a money making machine. Gays don't wear badges that say "Hey look at me, I'M GAY". Even if they did, do you really thing that the stadium or NFL would turn that money away? The NFL would welcome them through the doors to the first beer stand. This legislature had nothing to do with the the NFL or entertainment. It's a local issue and it should have stayed that way.
I find it ironic you guys are arguing for the rights of a business to pick and choose their customer based on beliefs but find it reprehensible for a business to pick and choose their venue based on beliefs.
They can choose as they see fit. If they choose to bow to PCism, then I'll choose not to be a fan.

 
MoveToSkypager said:
squistion said:
biju said:
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?
They did the exact same thing when they didn't vote to make MLK day a thing; didn't seem to hamper the league one bit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/02/26/why-the-nfl-moved-the-super-bowl-from-arizona-in-1990/
And Bronco Billy's dad hasn't watched an NFL game since then. :hophead:
:yes:
You guys do understand what this is about , right? Tell me you do. Your cute little snippy comments seem otherwise.AZ drafted a law that prevents the government from coercing a business to participate in a private transaction that they would otherwise refuse on the basis of fundamental religious beliefs - you know, the beliefs that are specifically protected from the government by the First Amendment. It shouldn't even have to be drafted but there are judges who have determined that the First Amendment takes a back seat to the "rights" of gay couples.

Let's be very clear - this is not institutional discrimination, this pertains to the First Amendment rights of individuals. You may not agree with the individual's position - personally I don't and think it's a dumb business decision - but that's irrelevant to the issue.

So a person's fundamental beliefs are secondary to the other party's desire to purchase a good or service. Do you see where this logic leads? An anti-gun activist could be coerced by the government and forced to cater a NRA event. A member of PETA who owns a pet store could be coerced by the government to sell animals to a laboratory for experimentation. Hell, those aren't even beliefs specifically protected by the Constitution.

Is that where you want the government to go? To have that kind of power? And before you jump on the discrimination bandwagon, make sure you understand also that the government discriminates institutionally all the time, and that's okay too. Ever try to recover your SS money before retirement age? Discrimination. Differing tax rates based solely upon differing income? Discrimination. It happens all the time. That dog don't hunt.

Despite the incredibly short sighted knee jerk reaction by those against this, the NFL IMO has no business entering into this fray. If they choose to do so, I 'll skip it. Believe me, life would go on without the NFL being a part of it. Stick to the entertainment business.
At the risk of "peeing in the Shark Pool" by discussing politics here, do you even know the text of the 1st Amendment?Here it is:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
What religion prohibits its' followers from selling his/her goods to homosexuals? None that I know of (and twisting scripture, or lines from the Koran, or other holy books doesn't count). Since that is the case, the 1st Amendment doesn't apply here.What this is really about is conservatives trying to make illegal discrimination, legal.

They failed, as they should have.
Thanks for posting the First Amendment. It's a shame you completely misinterpreted it's meaning in your rebuttal paragraph.

 
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
:lmao: I love this "stop watching the NFL" stuff.

 
MoveToSkypager said:
squistion said:
biju said:
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?
They did the exact same thing when they didn't vote to make MLK day a thing; didn't seem to hamper the league one bit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/02/26/why-the-nfl-moved-the-super-bowl-from-arizona-in-1990/
And Bronco Billy's dad hasn't watched an NFL game since then. :hophead:
:yes:
You guys do understand what this is about , right? Tell me you do. Your cute little snippy comments seem otherwise.AZ drafted a law that prevents the government from coercing a business to participate in a private transaction that they would otherwise refuse on the basis of fundamental religious beliefs - you know, the beliefs that are specifically protected from the government by the First Amendment. It shouldn't even have to be drafted but there are judges who have determined that the First Amendment takes a back seat to the "rights" of gay couples.

Let's be very clear - this is not institutional discrimination, this pertains to the First Amendment rights of individuals. You may not agree with the individual's position - personally I don't and think it's a dumb business decision - but that's irrelevant to the issue.

So a person's fundamental beliefs are secondary to the other party's desire to purchase a good or service. Do you see where this logic leads? An anti-gun activist could be coerced by the government and forced to cater a NRA event. A member of PETA who owns a pet store could be coerced by the government to sell animals to a laboratory for experimentation. Hell, those aren't even beliefs specifically protected by the Constitution.

Is that where you want the government to go? To have that kind of power? And before you jump on the discrimination bandwagon, make sure you understand also that the government discriminates institutionally all the time, and that's okay too. Ever try to recover your SS money before retirement age? Discrimination. Differing tax rates based solely upon differing income? Discrimination. It happens all the time. That dog don't hunt.

Despite the incredibly short sighted knee jerk reaction by those against this, the NFL IMO has no business entering into this fray. If they choose to do so, I 'll skip it. Believe me, life would go on without the NFL being a part of it. Stick to the entertainment business
Ever try to get a driver's license for your newborn??? DISCRIMINATION!

 
MoveToSkypager said:
squistion said:
biju said:
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?
They did the exact same thing when they didn't vote to make MLK day a thing; didn't seem to hamper the league one bit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/02/26/why-the-nfl-moved-the-super-bowl-from-arizona-in-1990/
And Bronco Billy's dad hasn't watched an NFL game since then. :hophead:
:yes:
You guys do understand what this is about , right? Tell me you do. Your cute little snippy comments seem otherwise.AZ drafted a law that prevents the government from coercing a business to participate in a private transaction that they would otherwise refuse on the basis of fundamental religious beliefs - you know, the beliefs that are specifically protected from the government by the First Amendment. It shouldn't even have to be drafted but there are judges who have determined that the First Amendment takes a back seat to the "rights" of gay couples.

Let's be very clear - this is not institutional discrimination, this pertains to the First Amendment rights of individuals. You may not agree with the individual's position - personally I don't and think it's a dumb business decision - but that's irrelevant to the issue.

So a person's fundamental beliefs are secondary to the other party's desire to purchase a good or service. Do you see where this logic leads? An anti-gun activist could be coerced by the government and forced to cater a NRA event. A member of PETA who owns a pet store could be coerced by the government to sell animals to a laboratory for experimentation. Hell, those aren't even beliefs specifically protected by the Constitution.

Is that where you want the government to go? To have that kind of power? And before you jump on the discrimination bandwagon, make sure you understand also that the government discriminates institutionally all the time, and that's okay too. Ever try to recover your SS money before retirement age? Discrimination. Differing tax rates based solely upon differing income? Discrimination. It happens all the time. That dog don't hunt.

Despite the incredibly short sighted knee jerk reaction by those against this, the NFL IMO has no business entering into this fray. If they choose to do so, I 'll skip it. Believe me, life would go on without the NFL being a part of it. Stick to the entertainment business.
At the risk of "peeing in the Shark Pool" by discussing politics here, do you even know the text of the 1st Amendment?Here it is:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
What religion prohibits its' followers from selling his/her goods to homosexuals? None that I know of (and twisting scripture, or lines from the Koran, or other holy books doesn't count). Since that is the case, the 1st Amendment doesn't apply here.What this is really about is conservatives trying to make illegal discrimination, legal.

They failed, as they should have.
Thanks for posting the First Amendment. It's a shame you completely misinterpreted it's meaning in your rebuttal paragraph.
There is no interpretation; it says what it says. And it says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (it hasn't) or prohibiting the free exercise of any religion. So, I'll ask it again: What religion prohibits its' followers from selling goods to homosexuals? Because if there isn't one, then federal laws that prohibit discrimination don't prevent anyone from practicing their own religion.

 
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The bible also says you shouldn't shave, maybe they'd have better luck trying to pass a bill that would allow them to deny service to people without beards.

 
Thanks for posting the First Amendment. It's a shame you completely misinterpreted it's meaning in your rebuttal paragraph.
There is no interpretation; it says what it says. And it says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (it hasn't) or prohibiting the free exercise of any religion. So, I'll ask it again: What religion prohibits its' followers from selling goods to homosexuals? Because if there isn't one, then federal laws that prohibit discrimination don't prevent anyone from practicing their own religion.
BAM! The definition of tolerance: "I'll tell you how to interpret your religion, and you'll farking like it!" ... tolerance is a two way street bro. Also, it was a state bill, not a Federal one.

(***not religious in the slightest***)

 
A move like this would cause me to stop watching the NFL. Keep the political bull#### out of the game please.

I know, I know - who cares if I give it up, right? But I'd guess there are plenty of people getting pissed off that PCism is being moved into the spotlight of one of their favorite sources of entertainment.
People probably felt the same way back when teams wanted to allow non-white players onto their squads. Somethings are bigger than the game.
Yeah, I'm sure this is just like Civil Rights for blacks. What was I thinking?
They did the exact same thing when they didn't vote to make MLK day a thing; didn't seem to hamper the league one bit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/02/26/why-the-nfl-moved-the-super-bowl-from-arizona-in-1990/
And Bronco Billy's dad hasn't watched an NFL game since then. :hophead:
:yes:
You guys do understand what this is about , right? Tell me you do. Your cute little snippy comments seem otherwise. AZ drafted a law that prevents the government from coercing a business to participate in a private transaction that they would otherwise refuse on the basis of fundamental religious beliefs - you know, the beliefs that are specifically protected from the government by the First Amendment. It shouldn't even have to be drafted but there are judges who have determined that the First Amendment takes a back seat to the "rights" of gay couples.

Let's be very clear - this is not institutional discrimination, this pertains to the First Amendment rights of individuals. You may not agree with the individual's position - personally I don't and think it's a dumb business decision - but that's irrelevant to the issue.

So a person's fundamental beliefs are secondary to the other party's desire to purchase a good or service. Do you see where this logic leads? An anti-gun activist could be coerced by the government and forced to cater a NRA event. A member of PETA who owns a pet store could be coerced by the government to sell animals to a laboratory for experimentation. Hell, those aren't even beliefs specifically protected by the Constitution.

Is that where you want the government to go? To have that kind of power? And before you jump on the discrimination bandwagon, make sure you understand also that the government discriminates institutionally all the time, and that's okay too. Ever try to recover your SS money before retirement age? Discrimination. Differing tax rates based solely upon differing income? Discrimination. It happens all the time. That dog don't hunt.

Despite the incredibly short sighted knee jerk reaction by those against this, the NFL IMO has no business entering into this fray. If they choose to do so, I 'll skip it. Believe me, life would go on without the NFL being a part of it. Stick to the entertainment business.
wtf did you put rights in quotes?
 
cc texan said:
Thanks for posting the First Amendment. It's a shame you completely misinterpreted it's meaning in your rebuttal paragraph.
There is no interpretation; it says what it says. And it says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (it hasn't) or prohibiting the free exercise of any religion. So, I'll ask it again: What religion prohibits its' followers from selling goods to homosexuals? Because if there isn't one, then federal laws that prohibit discrimination don't prevent anyone from practicing their own religion.
BAM! The definition of tolerance: "I'll tell you how to interpret your religion, and you'll farking like it!" ... tolerance is a two way street bro. Also, it was a state bill, not a Federal one.

(***not religious in the slightest***)
I'm not telling anyone how to interpret their religion. I've asked several times, yet BB refused to answer; what religion prohibits its followers from selling products/goods to homosexuals?

How is asking a question "telling you (or anyone) how to interpret your religion?"

Ever heard of the 6th Amendment; it says no states cannot pass laws that contradict the Constitution or federal laws, so this law would have been illegal.

 
Why are we discussing this. Has anyone heard of common sense? Common sense tells you anyone able to take a persons sexuality, religion, race or disability into reasoning for services is discriminating.

This law would of been extremely discriminative, anyone who says otherwise probably discriminates on an everyday basis and don't understand how bigoted it is.

The only reason the law wasn't signed is because of the monetary issues it would have caused, and we all know rich people will rather deal with the gays if they have to then lose out on money.

 
cc texan said:
Thanks for posting the First Amendment. It's a shame you completely misinterpreted it's meaning in your rebuttal paragraph.
There is no interpretation; it says what it says. And it says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (it hasn't) or prohibiting the free exercise of any religion. So, I'll ask it again: What religion prohibits its' followers from selling goods to homosexuals? Because if there isn't one, then federal laws that prohibit discrimination don't prevent anyone from practicing their own religion.
BAM! The definition of tolerance: "I'll tell you how to interpret your religion, and you'll farking like it!" ... tolerance is a two way street bro. Also, it was a state bill, not a Federal one.

(***not religious in the slightest***)
I'm not telling anyone how to interpret their religion. I've asked several times, yet BB refused to answer; what religion prohibits its followers from selling products/goods to homosexuals?How is asking a question "telling you (or anyone) how to interpret your religion?"

Ever heard of the 6th Amendment; it says no states cannot pass laws that contradict the Constitution or federal laws, so this law would have been illegal.
"AMENDMENT VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense."

It certainly does not say that. The founders were clear Federalists, and thus would not put Federal laws above the state.

I'm not advocating for bigotry, in fact, I think it's an awful law. I'm saying that telling people what they should believe and how to exercise THEIR religion is a zero sum game. It's attacking people's beliefs which makes them think they need nutty laws like this to protect them (see the California case).

 

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