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NFL Draft Article (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jeff Pasquino
- Start date
Eli2Shockey
Footballguy
good read
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Great stuff Jeff! Thanks!
There it is
Footballguy
Good stuff here. Thanks Jeff.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Jeff, Cleveland did not sell its soul to land Brady Quinn. The Browns moved up from the 36th pick to the 22nd pick to land Quinn whom they had listed as their #7 player on their draft board this year. The Dallas Cowboys had Quinn listed as the #8 player on their draft board but didn't need a QB as they felt/feel Tony Romo is their QB of the future.
The FBGs in-draft comments on the price of Quinn can be compared to PFT's in-draft comments pertaining to Quinn.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/DraftBlogPartOne.htm
Their was speculation the Browns were looking into trading Braylon Edwards to the Vikes for the 7th pick prior to the draft. Savage didn't confirm or deny that rumor but after the draft he mentioned that he had written out on a piece of scratch paper a fantasy draft scenario of, Joe Thomas at #3, Brady Quinn at #7 and Eric Wright at #36 (The position of the Browns first pick was #3 and we took Joe Thomas at #3, the Vikings held the #7 pick but Cleveland was unable to attain the Vikngs pick. The Browns traded their second round selection, #36 as part of the Quinn trade but later moved back into the second round to snare Eric Wright at #53 whom Savage has listed as the #15 player on the Browns draft board). So Cleveland got their, #3, #7, and #15 ranked players on their draft board this year. All at positions which filled holes on the team.Also prior to the draft Savage had speculated that Quinn probably would not have been the first QB taken last year but he could have been in the 05 draft when the Browns got Braylon Edwards at number three. So the rumored swap of Braylon for the Vikings #7 pick so Savage could take Quinn there makes a lot of sense.
Miami has already felt heat in passing on Quinn. After the draft KC confirmed to Savage that they would have taken Quinn. Savage was on the phone to both Dallas at #22 and KC at #23 and Phil felt KC was stalling him with their trade proposal so they could grab Brady for themselves, he was correct. Also Phil knew Baltimore was after Quinn (Baltimore took Troy Smith later in the draft so they were definitely after Quinn with their first round pick). So Savage would have had a nightmare scenario if divisional rival Baltimore snagged Quinn where the Browns would have to face a murder's row of young QBs for the next decade, Roethlesburger in Pittsburgh, Palmer in Cincinnatti, and Quinn in Baltimore, meanwhile Frye hasn't shown he's anyththing other than a third round pick who was/is starting by default of having no one with superior talent to compete with.
Tom Condon (Quinn's agent) is going to try asking for the moon. Quinn isn't crying over spilled milk and knows his best chance to make up lost money is to quickly earn it via the starting job so he's going to press that Condon get him in camp on time and Quinn holds the biggest card in the deck in terms of getting his contract done. He can fire Condon if it comes down to that.http://www.profootballtalk.com/DraftTenPackPartTwo.htm
The most interesting comment by Savage pertaining to Quinn was that he said he was not prepared to take Quinn without having Joe Thomas so the synergy of getting a stud OLT AND a prospective franchise QB IN THE SAME DRAFT, unprecidented. Last year Savage drafted 34 LBers with 3 of his first 4 picks. He uncovered a gem of a CB in Leigh Bodden and inked him to a long term contract. This year he made the bold move for Eric Wright to man the other CB position. Savage drafted Brodney Poole and saw Sean Jones emerge at safety. The only hole left on defense is on the line but Savage bought time in signing FAs DE Robaire Smith and NT Chris Smith and added some pass rush boost with LB Antowain Peek who had a half dozen sacks with Browns DC Grantham two years ago in Houston so he could make a nice bookend with Kam Whimbley who had 11 sacks as a rookie.
On offense, Kellen Winslow and Braylon came back from injury last year. The Browns signed OG Eric Stienbeck and drafted OLT Joe Thomas. La Charles Bentley said he's determining whether to have surgery on his patellar tendon or try his comeback this year. Ryan Tucker graded out highest of the offensive linemen last year and appears back from a bout with depression. Jamal Lewis ran for 4.4 yards per carry behind Jon Ogden on the Ravens left side. Joe Thomas AND Eric Stienbeck man the left side of the Browns offensive line. Frye and Derek Anderson have more experience with the addition of Brady Quinn to upgrade the QB position.
The assumption the Browns first pick would allow the Cowboys to select McFadden is ill-informed. Two years ago the Browns finished 6-10 with Kellen Winslow on IR, with Frye as a rookie third round QB starting QB, without Stienbeck or Joe Thomas, with Braylon Edwards as a rookie who went to IR after only one start, without Sean Jones or Brodney Poole starting, without Kamerion Whimbley, D'Qwell Jackson, Leon Williams.
The Browns got a top QB prospect at a $20 million discount after snyching up their offensive line. They would most likely be targeting a QB with their top pick next year if they hadn't gotten one this year. The only way the Cowboys parlay the Browns pick into McFadden is if they draft 'Don't worry, be happy' Bobby McFadden or package the Browns pick in with their pick to move up because the Browns realistically gave up a pick in the 15 area of next year's draft and Darren McFadden isn't going to be there at that pick. Nor would a top QB prospect like Brady Quinn.
You declared that Dallas won some sort of zero sum game draft trade deal against Cleveland in a landslide. If the draft is a zero sum game the Browns just scored against the entire league but that is jes my humble opinion.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Bradie,I truncated your post so this could be legible, but I will address your points.Jeff, Cleveland did not sell its soul to land Brady Quinn. The Browns moved up from the 36th pick to the 22nd pick to land Quinn whom they had listed as their #7 player on their draft board this year. The Dallas Cowboys had Quinn listed as the #8 player on their draft board but didn't need a QB as they felt/feel Tony Romo is their QB of the future.
....
You declared that Dallas won some sort of zero sum game draft trade deal against Cleveland in a landslide. If the draft is a zero sum game the Browns just scored against the entire league but that is jes my humble opinion.
First, it was the consensus of the Footballguys / Draftguys contingent that Cleveland was overpaying to move up to the first round as soon as their #1 pick in 2008 was part of the deal - and that was when the rumored offer was the 2008 first and a 2007 THIRD. To hear that Dallas got the first and a SECOND just blew our minds. That was a hugely one-sided trade for Dallas.
If you had asked anyone prior to the draft if any team could get a first round pick just for moving from a high second round into the first, say from 36 to 22, they would have laughed at that. The value was just too high for that first.
For example, let's look at Dallas and what they did just as a sanity check. They moved down from 22 to 36 and got a 2008 first for that move. Then, with the Eagles, they moved back up to 26 for the price of a third (87) and a fifth (159), and both were late in the round. So, in something I love to call "trade stacking" and something I love to do, the Cowboys moved from 22 to 26 for the price of a third and a fifth AND received a 2008 first. That's insanely good value for them.
Now, I'm assuming that you are a Cleveland Brown fan with your arguments that they won't be a bad team next year. I disagree, but you don't have to believe me. That's fine. Let's pick an independent source - like Vegas - where they put their money at risk for what they think.
Based on this pre-draft article:
Hilton Releases NFL Wins Odds
Cleveland was expected to be the worst team in 2007 with 5 or 6 wins.
That tells me that they are the favorite for the #1 pick in 2008.
The odds may have changed a little since then, but realistically you cannot honestly think that they won't be a Top 5 team in the 2008 draft - and now Dallas will be.
The best RB this year went at #7 overall. I cannot see Dallas being any worse than this. To make matters worse for Cleveland fans, the 2008 talent pool is widely regarded as deeper than in 2007, so even if Dallas somehow doesn't get McFadden, the #2 or #3 RB in the draft should still be very valuable.
Now I'm not 100% against what Cleveland did. I even said as much during the draft:
Cleveland Overpaying for Quinn Was OK
But many dissenters were agreeing that Cleveland lost big time to Dallas:
Dallas Won the First Round
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Yes, if I had only asked about draft position. If before the draft I had asked if one of the teams in need of a quaterback would be able to draft Joe Thomas and then move up from the 36th slot to acquire Brady Quinn for the price of their first round draft pick next year they would want to determine where next year's pick would be before they made a judgement call of the price.I had explained in detail my reasoning as to why I believe the Browns will finish with a better record than the 6-10 record of two years ago and my reasonable expectation is they will finish at 7-9 which would place Cleveland's next year's first round draft pick in the 15 range.
Based strictly on draft slotting then the price of next year's first round draft pick is the cost for moving down and that has yet to be determined.
The over/under win total stands at 5 1/2 which means Vegas is putting thier money that Cleveland finishes better than their 4 win total of last year. Vegas has bumped Cleveland's win total to over 5 as the Vegas over/under odds are at 5 1/2 wins. I place the Browns floor at 6 wins with a ceilig of 8 which is why I went 7. A 7-9 season is not a good season nor a good team so your speculation that I judge the Browns as a good team is incorrect.
I do not believe the Browns will be a top five team in the 08 draft nor Dallas. I reasonably expect one more win than Cleveland had two years ago to put them at 7 wins which places next years first round pick in the 15 range. If you check the trade value chart you can determine the cost.the 22nd pick in the first round is worth 780 points
the 36th pick in the second round is worth 540 points
the 15th pick inthe first round is worth 1,050 points
780 + 540 = 1320 points
1320 - 1050 = 270 points or the equivilent of the 64th pick or the last pick of the second round. If you know about time valuation of money you understand that money today is worth more than money promised tomorrow and in terms of applying that analogy to an NFL team the time valuation of acquiring a potential franchise QB is worth far more to get that player sooner and develop him sooner rather than to plan on taking one in next year's draft where far too many variables could prevent that from happening. Also the youth at the skill positions and now at left tackle place the value of getting a franchise QB far greater to Cleveland RIGHT NOW rather than being forced to wait. Additionally Quinn is thought to be more NFL ready than even the top selected QB and one of the more well prepared QBs to enter the league so if a year of development is shaved off of his prep time then Cleveland would gain more than one year on the process.
IOWs I'd gladly pay the 64th pick today with two young receiving threats entering their prime, after having acquired a top notch OG and a uber stud OLT so I could get my QB today rather than wasting a year waiting on the QB and wasting the youth of the skill positions and of my offensive line talent. Maximization of impact talent at one time provides a team their best chance of winning the Super Bowl. It will take Quinn a few years before he has the ability to reach his full potential, same with Joe Thomas, but Winslow is there as is Stienbech and Braylon is on the cusp.
As per the discenters, they are playing checkers because they knee jerked their reaction based on past performance and past expectations but even Vegas has knocked up the Browns win total by a game and a half. I'll stand firm by my 7-9 prediction and also my view that Cleveland won huge but I don't view it as a zero sum win. I just see what Savage was able to do and know it was of far more value to Cleveland than people believe. Jes my humble-O.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
... and if you had read the Draftguys blog post I made about this, you would see why I said that I can see their reasoning for making this deal. I also believe that if they had decided that their 08 first was in play earlier, they could have made a better deal with another team a few picks earlier.
Frankly this doesn't make any sense. There were several deals in play and many teams bought and sold 2008 firsts. You are missing the point. If Philadelphia would have given a 10 pick move upwards at the cost of just a 3rd and a 5th, clearly giving a 2008 first for 4 spots more is ridiculous value to Dallas.
Is it your stance that fair value between a 2008 first and a 3rd and a fifth rounder is equal to the difference between Picks 22 and 26?
Again, this is where we differ. I don't think it is reasonable for you to expect 7 wins for Cleveland this year. If you do, I think you might just go to Vegas and clean up, because you are at least in the 50% minority. The point of me citing the Vegas line is that is a measure of where the fair market value of an expected outcome lies. Cleveland is expected to have 5-6 wins. 50% say more, 50% say less than 5 1/2.
Moreover, the telling point is not the number of wins, but that they have the LOWEST expected number of wins. That screams "Top 5 in 2008".
I strongly suggest you go and read my blog post on DraftGuys. The points you mention about getting Brady a year early I do not disagree with at all. I know I'm in the minority when I say that, but I do believe that a franchise starts with good line play and a QB, then skill players get added. That's Cleveland's approach and it is a valid plan.The point I am making is that there is a high HIGH probability that Dallas will be picking early in the NFL Draft in 2008, something you do not agree with in the slightest. There's no convincing you otherwise, so I have to let it go at that and we will see in about nine months. My money would be on Dallas picking very early.If you check the trade value chart you can determine the cost.
the 22nd pick in the first round is worth 780 points
the 36th pick in the second round is worth 540 points
the 15th pick inthe first round is worth 1,050 points
780 + 540 = 1320 points
1320 - 1050 = 270 points or the equivilent of the 64th pick or the last pick of the second round. If you know about time valuation of money you understand that money today is worth more than money promised tomorrow and in terms of applying that analogy to an NFL team the time valuation of acquiring a potential franchise QB is worth far more to get that player sooner and develop him sooner rather than to plan on taking one in next year's draft where far too many variables could prevent that from happening. Also the youth at the skill positions and now at left tackle place the value of getting a franchise QB far greater to Cleveland RIGHT NOW rather than being forced to wait. Additionally Quinn is thought to be more NFL ready than even the top selected QB and one of the more well prepared QBs to enter the league so if a year of development is shaved off of his prep time then Cleveland would gain more than one year on the process.
IOWs I'd gladly pay the 64th pick today with two young receiving threats entering their prime, after having acquired a top notch OG and a uber stud OLT so I could get my QB today rather than wasting a year waiting on the QB and wasting the youth of the skill positions and of my offensive line talent. Maximization of impact talent at one time provides a team their best chance of winning the Super Bowl. It will take Quinn a few years before he has the ability to reach his full potential, same with Joe Thomas, but Winslow is there as is Stienbech and Braylon is on the cusp.
As per the discenters, they are playing checkers because they knee jerked their reaction based on past performance and past expectations but even Vegas has knocked up the Browns win total by a game and a half. I'll stand firm by my 7-9 prediction and also my view that Cleveland won huge but I don't view it as a zero sum win. I just see what Savage was able to do and know it was of far more value to Cleveland than people believe. Jes my humble-O.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
From what Savage has said, he had hinted that he was willing to dish Braylon Edwards for the seventh pick in the draft. I would imagine that Braylon Edwards was on the table. I know Savage had said the Browns began making calls starting when Quinn fell past the twelth pick. I would imagine he had to offer his second rounder and his first next year. To make your position clear, you are saying that Savage did not offer his first round pick next year when trying to trade up to the twelth pick up to the point that he was forced to offer it to Dallas?
The Eagles didn't have the leverage of a top QB prospect when they traded down. The Cowboys did. The deal can not be judged soley based off of the draft position being acquired. The price of the deal, next year's pick, has not been determined. The buying and selling of first round picks outside of the Cleveland/Dallas deal were calculate deals where the team trading down knew the player they wanted would be available later so they were willing to take less to move down. Dallas on the other hand did not feel that Spencer would be available later with the 36th pick acquired by Cleveland and that is why after they traded down they made an additional move back up to get the player that they wanted.
Last year Phil Savage moved down one slot and picked up only an additional sixth round draft pick. He got the player he wanted, Kamerion Whimbley and he knew that moving down one slot with Baltimore was safe because he knew Ozzie Newsome wanted N'Gata. So Savage got the player he wanted and the extra sixth round pick. If that deal was only judged on the cheap cost of moving down one slot then people would deem that Savage got fleeced but in reality Savage played Newsome since he had no desire to pick N'Gata but Newsome had to make the deal since he was unsure.
I am basing my expected win total on a few items that I know of. I do not know how Vegas derived their over/under NFL W/L odds. But even Sin City sets the odds of Cleveland's win total at 50% higher than 5.5 wins.
I had read the live draft blog and understand that you feel the Browns made a good move. We agree on that.We differ on expected win totals. But even Vegas has the odds at 50% that the Browns will have more than 5.5 wins so I do not feel that Vegas is screaming anything other than loose perceptions. Now if you feel the Browns are a lock to have the worst record in the leauge then you can clean up by betting the under 5.5 win total. I'll stick by my projected and reasonable 7 wins for the Browns next year which would put their first round pick right in the neighborhood of 15.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Exactly. Dallas initiated this deal, and the 2008 first did not come into play until they started to talk with St. Louis at 13 - and also several other teams were in a position to allow them to keep their #1 pick. That leads me to believe that Cleveland wasn't offering the 2008 first very easily. For example, KC would have allowed the Browns to make the move for second, third and fifth round picks in 2007 - a deal I personally would have encouraged - and Cleveland would have kept the 08 first. They would have had Quinn at 23 in this scenario and Dallas would still have taken Spencer.Cleveland War Room - USA Today
In essence, the Browns gave up their 2008 first to keep their 3rd and 5th round picks in 2007. How crazy is that???
This is where you are missing my point. I don't care how many games Cleveland wins - 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 - we both agree that they won't be 8-8 or better.Vegas is telling me that there is a high probability that Cleveland will be drafting in the Top 5 in 2008 (or should be) since they are expected to have the lowest number of wins.
According to their numbers, only 10 teams have an over/under of 7 wins or fewer, with 5 at 6.5 or less. The question you have to ask is how many of those 10 teams are likely to have fewer than 7 wins and be drafting ahead of Cleveland?
I just don't see how that would happen. Also, again, ADP was drafted at 7 this year, and he was the #1 RB. It is entirely possible that a stud RB, which will be a major need for Cleveland next year, will be where they should have been drafting in 2008.
Lastly, only 9 teams last year has 6 or fewer wins, so even if you are correct, odds are that Cleveland will be in the Top 10.
We'll just have to wait and see, but I don't see Cleveland with 7 victories this year against that division (Baltimore and Cincinnati in particular).
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
From the USA Today article that you referenced.http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...er_N.htm?csp=34
... some teams told Savage they weren't interested in trading because they were in range to select the player they had targeted, seven teams at least weighed offers, including the St. Louis Rams, Carolina Panthers, Green Bay Packers, Jacksonville Jaguars and Tennessee Titans.
St. Louis is listed as the first team that they had entered trade talks with at the 13th pick.
... wondering whether the Rams might be willing to trade the 13th pick overall, Savage put it out for the group's input.
"What about next year's No. 1, a three and a four, and we flip twos?" Savage asked, for the first time floating the idea of trading next year's No. 1, in addition to offering third- and fourth-round picks and an exchange of draft positions in the second round.
Tripp MacCracken, the salary cap assistant who was once a White House intern during the Clinton years, shoots back, "Next year's No. 1 would be a solid option" as the primary inducement to make a deal.
Savage gets off the phone with the Rams and feels good.
Savage had next year's #1 pick on the table right from the start. He also was offering the Rams the option of moving up in the second round and his third and fourth round picks.
You are referencing this passage of the article:
The problem: Several teams didn't want to move out of the first round to 36th overall, the Browns' position in the second round. The Philadelphia Eagles (26th overall) and New England Patriots (24th and 28th) were willing, but by those slots Quinn might not be available.
Kansas City, at No. 23, seemed willing, with the Browns mulling whether to swap their second-, third- and fifth- round picks in this draft for the slot.
But under this scenario, while Cleveland would have kept its first-round pick in 2008, it wouldn't have had any more picks Saturday. Savage wasn't thrilled by that idea. The Browns have many needs, and Savage had several players in mind for the second and third rounds.
This statement turned out to be false.
KC was attempting to stall Savage because they knew he was on the phone with Dallas and wanted Savage to not make the deal with Jerry Jones so that Quinn would fall to them. After the draft that was confirmed. Savage wasn't thumbing his nose at giving up his third and fifth round picks, he didn't consider the deal to be true. He smelled a rat and later it was confirmed that he was right. Had Quinn fallen to KC they would have taken him instead of making the deal with the Browns.
Also the article phrased that passage that KC 'seemed willing' to but not that KC had offered that deal. Their was no option of trading their 3rd and 5th picks instead of their number one pick next year. Their #1 pick next year was on the table from the start. Savage had no qualms about dishing his third and fourth round picks since he did precisely that to move back into the second round to get Eric Wright. The same Eric Wright whom he had listed as the #15 player on his draft board. If Savage held his third and fifth round picks soo dearly he would never had traded his third and fourth round picks only a few hours later. That makes no sense whatsoever so I'll go by the report that KC was attempting to stall Savage.
In the end Savage got essentially the original deal that he had in place with St. Louis but instead of making the deal at 13 he made that deal at 22 with Dallas. The benefit of getting Quinn at 22 instead of 13 is that Savage saves tens of millions of dollars on the contract. The high cost in terms of dollars has been mitigated as even Condon won't be able to spin the fall down to 22. Last year Condon was able to land Lienart a top QB contract after Matt slid down to the 11th pick.
I am making a direct analysis of the Browns situation. I am not basing my projection of what the Browns will do on other teams. My basic premise is using the proper baseline year to evaluate this Browns team against, which should be based off of the 05 team which won 6 games.I do not base what I expect of the current team off of last year's record which can be attributed to a devastating injury suffered on the first snap on the first day of training camp when La Charles Bently went down with his injury and was lost for the season. For anyone looking in from the outside they may dismiss the loss of a center but that is where they show ignorance. Outsiders cannot fathom the magnitude of Bently's loss.
Savage got Bently in the first hour of the 06 free agent period. Cleveland had a first round draft pick playing center, Jeff Faine who was unable to handle Casey Hampton the stud NT of the Steelers. Faine was/is a great tactician but was/is under weight. On draft day of 06 Savage had said that he made the pick of Kamerion Whimbley over Haloti N'Gata primarily due to the FA signing of La Charles Bently, MEANING that Bently could handle N'Gata and Hampton. The Browns needed a NT and N'Gata was rumored to be their choice and that was how Savage was able to trade down with Ozzie Newsome and get an extra sixth round pick. The acquistion of Bently also allowed Savage freedom to trade Jeff Faine on draft day to move up in the second round for D'Qwell Jackson.
When Bently went down the Browns had a journeyman named Bob Hallerman as their backup center. Hallerman freaked at the prospect of starting and went AWOL leaving Cleveland with no center at the start of training camp. Savage had to scramble to find Hank Fraley. The offensive line was out of synch all year. This off-season Savage got the best FA OG in Stienbach and drafted the top flight Outland Trophy winning uber stud OLT Joe Thomas.
My primary premise is that I am making my baseline as the 05 Browns VS the 07 model. Outsiders are blind in using 06 VS 07.
Two years ago the Browns finished with 6 wins and that earned them the 12th pick of the 05 draft. If you use 06 VS 07 your baseline is off. If you know map making the baseline is the key, its crucial to the accuracy of the rest of the map. Your blind spot is in basing the Browns off of last year and in assuming the AFCN will have just as easy of a time with the Browns as they did last year. Last year was the first time in history the Browns went winless in the AFCN. It won't happen this year. If Vegas lays odds on that I'm ALL IN.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
To put the Cleveland trade in perspective:
Last year the Bills traded the 42nd pick in the draft and the 73rd pick in the draft for the 26th pick in the draft.
Honestly though, the bottom line will be how Brady performs. If Brady performs like an elite QB, then it was worth it, if he doesn't, then it wasn't. Next year should be a pretty weak year for QBs so that plays into Cleveland's favor. Could they have drafted a QB next year in the top 10 that has as much talent as Brady? If they couldn't, then it's probably not a bad deal for them and a 2nd round pick is fairly cheap to get their QB of the future a year early.
But I definitely think that the Browns overpaid according to the way most teams value picks due to the fact that they were moving up to take Brady Quinn. If they were moving up to take Jon Beason I think the price would have been a LOT cheaper.
Last year the Bills traded the 42nd pick in the draft and the 73rd pick in the draft for the 26th pick in the draft.
Honestly though, the bottom line will be how Brady performs. If Brady performs like an elite QB, then it was worth it, if he doesn't, then it wasn't. Next year should be a pretty weak year for QBs so that plays into Cleveland's favor. Could they have drafted a QB next year in the top 10 that has as much talent as Brady? If they couldn't, then it's probably not a bad deal for them and a 2nd round pick is fairly cheap to get their QB of the future a year early.
But I definitely think that the Browns overpaid according to the way most teams value picks due to the fact that they were moving up to take Brady Quinn. If they were moving up to take Jon Beason I think the price would have been a LOT cheaper.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
OK, so enough about the Cleveland trade... any other comments on the article?
Anything surprise you? Any questions?
Anything surprise you? Any questions?
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
What surprised me was how many FBGs said that they'd be there Day 2 and weren't.
That's more of a Part 2 comment though and we're not there yet. 
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Good point. I'll be sure to mention that when I get Part 2 done. Hopefully everyone well read / see how good of a time it is and join us in 2008.What surprised me was how many FBGs said that they'd be there Day 2 and weren't.That's more of a Part 2 comment though and we're not there yet.
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