NFL Hall of Fame Finalists (1 Viewer)

[doughboydeluxe]

The 15 finalists for induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2006:

Troy Aikman

Harry Carson

L.C. Greenwood

Russ Grimm

Claude Humphrey

Michael Irvin

Bob Kuechenberg

John Madden

Art Monk

Warren Moon

Derrick Thomas

Thurman Thomas

Reggie White

Rayfield Wright

Gary Zimmerman

Aikman, Moon, T. Thomas, and White are first-time nominees. Aikman and White are pretty much locks to get in. Who else gets in?

More info at the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

 

[stevec]

I'd think Thomas is more of a lock than Aikman, I alwasy thoguht Aikman as more of the guy who was good but not great (sort of along for the ride) on the Cowboys teams. I'm not even sure I'd elect Aikman.I really think they need to stop electing every QB they can find - there are too many in already.My ballot would be:WhiteThomas, T.MaddenGrimmZimmermanCarsonKuechenberg

 

[BigRed]

Aikman probably shouldn't get in but will. Irvin? lol. (and not that's not "Cowboy hate"). The rest are all worthy IMO, although not familiar with Wright.

 

[miphin]

WhiteDTMonkT Thomas - meh...The rest are scrubs

 

[Husker]

Cowboy fan, so not a homer statement.How does Ray Guy not make this list (even the 15 finalists list)? Look, just declare punters ineligible for the HOF so you are at least being honest.My vote:(1) Reggie White(2) Ray GuyAfter those two, the arguments can start.

 

[B-Deep]

Aikman probably shouldn't get in but will. Irvin? lol. (and not that's not "Cowboy hate").

The rest are all worthy IMO, although not familiar with Wright.

not cowboys hate?why shouldn't aikman get in again??

irvin stands no chance, I agree.

 

[Autumn Wind]

Cowboy fan, so not a homer statement.

How does Ray Guy not make this list (even the 15 finalists list)? Look, just declare punters ineligible for the HOF so you are at least being honest.

My vote:

(1) Reggie White

(2) Ray Guy

After those two, the arguments can start.

Thank you!

 

[BassNBrew]

Pro Football Hall of Fame

Moon

Also think Madden should get in.

 

[dj_stouty]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

 

[BassNBrew]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

It's not called the Hall of The Very Good

 

[Chase Stuart]

The 15 finalists for induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2006:

Troy Aikman

Harry Carson

L.C. Greenwood

Russ Grimm

Claude Humphrey

Michael Irvin

Bob Kuechenberg

John Madden

Art Monk

Warren Moon

Derrick Thomas

Thurman Thomas

Reggie White

Rayfield Wright

Gary Zimmerman

Aikman, Moon, T. Thomas, and White are first-time nominees. Aikman and White are pretty much locks to get in. Who else gets in?

More info at the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

IIRC, they choose 4-7.I don't see how Madden or Reggie White are not inducted. Madden is such an prominent NFL figure, and one of the better coaches of all time. He won a playoff game in 7 of the 10 seasons he coached.

Moon and Thurman based on sheer numbers should make it in as well. Thomas was 6th all time in yards from scrimmage when he retired (Payton, Rice, Sanders, Smith, Allen). Moon's passing numbers from the NFL+CFL are well documented.

Aikman on the rings, but maybe not on his first try.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

Here is how I would rank them.......Troy Aikman-3Harry Carson-12L.C. Greenwood-7Russ Grimm-14Claude Humphrey-13Michael Irvin-9Bob Kuechenberg-5John Madden-6Art Monk-8Warren Moon-2Derrick Thomas-4Thurman Thomas-10Reggie White-1Rayfield Wright-11Gary Zimermann-15I would think that White, Moon, Aikman, DT and maybe Kuechenberg would all get in.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Thurman Thomas was dominant from about 89-95 and had some good seasons after it as well. He's deserving of the HOF. I'm a little biased though.edit - he led the league in total yards from scrimmage for 4 straight years too.

 

[dj_stouty]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

It's not called the Hall of The Very Good

Actually...it could be considered the Hall of Very Good, with some of the WRs currently enshrined.Monk was a GREAT wide receiver. 5th all time in receptions (and first WR to have 100 catches in a season) and 9th all time in yards.

 

[Autumn Wind]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

It's not called the Hall of The Very Good

Actually...it could be considered the Hall of Very Good, with some of the WRs currently enshrined.Monk was a GREAT wide receiver. 5th all time in receptions (and first WR to have 100 catches in a season) and 9th all time in yards.

15 years in the league got him some of those all-time stats. He only finished in the top 10 for receiving yards three times. Not HOF worthy.

 

[Warhogs]

Reggie WhiteWarren MoonThurman ThomasEdit to add: I also would like to see Ray Guy get in the HOF.

 

[dj_stouty]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

It's not called the Hall of The Very Good

Actually...it could be considered the Hall of Very Good, with some of the WRs currently enshrined.Monk was a GREAT wide receiver. 5th all time in receptions (and first WR to have 100 catches in a season) and 9th all time in yards.

15 years in the league got him some of those all-time stats. He only finished in the top 10 for receiving yards three times. Not HOF worthy.

So.Stallworth was in the league for 14 years, yet he didn't even crack the

top 40 in either category. (and only had one more year of 10 top receiving yards)

Lynn Swan never had a 1,000 yard season...and he "only finished in the top 10 for receiving yards three times."

I believe Art Monk was better than both of these current HOFers...

 

[Autumn Wind]

So.

Stallworth was in the league for 14 years, yet he didn't even crack the

top 40 in either category. (and only had one more year of 10 top receiving yards)

Lynn Swan never had a 1,000 yard season...and he "only finished in the top 10 for receiving yards three times."

I believe Art Monk was better than both of these current HOFers...

You're probably right. But I've already gone on record as saying Swann doesn't belong in. And Stallworth doesn't either. Put the two of them together, and you have an all-time great.

 

[5Rings]

The 15 finalists for induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2006:

Troy Aikman -YES

Harry Carson - NO

L.C. Greenwood- NO

Russ Grimm - NO

Claude Humphrey - NO

Michael Irvin - NO

Bob Kuechenberg - NO

John Madden - NO

Art Monk- NO

Warren Moon - NO

Derrick Thomas - NO

Thurman Thomas - NO

Reggie White - YES

Rayfield Wright - NO

Gary Zimmerman - YES

 

[5Rings]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

The guy was the best WR on his own team only 4/18 years. Come on guy.

Monk has no business in Canton.

 

[dgreen]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

It's not called the Hall of The Very Good

It's not called the Hall of Great, either, so I don't see your point.

 

[dgreen]

So.

Stallworth was in the league for 14 years, yet he didn't even crack the

top 40 in either category. (and only had one more year of 10 top receiving yards)

Lynn Swan never had a 1,000 yard season...and he "only finished in the top 10 for receiving yards three times."

I believe Art Monk was better than both of these current HOFers...

You're probably right. But I've already gone on record as saying Swann doesn't belong in. And Stallworth doesn't either. Put the two of them together, and you have an all-time great.

Put Swann and Stallworth together and you still don't have as many catches as Monk. So, that makes Monk great, right?

 

[dgreen]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

The guy was the best WR on his own team only 4/18 years.

XYou'd have a very difficult time finding anyone on those Redskins' teams to argue for Gary Clark over Art Monk.

 

[Chase Stuart]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

It's not called the Hall of The Very Good

It's not called the Hall of Great, either, so I don't see your point.

 

[5Rings]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

The guy was the best WR on his own team only 4/18 years.

XYou'd have a very difficult time finding anyone on those Redskins' teams to argue for Gary Clark over Art Monk.

sure....unless you looked at things like, oh STATS or PRO BOWL selections......

 

[Autumn Wind]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

It's not called the Hall of The Very Good

It's not called the Hall of Great, either, so I don't see your point.

Look up the hall on Google and you'll see this text: "Honoring the great players of the professional football world since 1920."

 

[dgreen]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

The guy was the best WR on his own team only 4/18 years.

XYou'd have a very difficult time finding anyone on those Redskins' teams to argue for Gary Clark over Art Monk.

sure....unless you looked at things like, oh STATS or PRO BOWL selections......

Exactly. People that actually played and coached wouldn't just look at stats and pro bowls.

 

[dgreen]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

It's not called the Hall of The Very Good

It's not called the Hall of Great, either, so I don't see your point.

Look up the hall on Google and you'll see this text: "Honoring the great players of the professional football world since 1920."

Good for Google. His argument was about the name. That argument doesn't make sense. If we went off the name, only famous people would get in.

 

[Autumn Wind]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

The guy was the best WR on his own team only 4/18 years.

XYou'd have a very difficult time finding anyone on those Redskins' teams to argue for Gary Clark over Art Monk.

sure....unless you looked at things like, oh STATS or PRO BOWL selections......

Exactly. People that actually played and coached wouldn't just look at stats and pro bowls.

How many coaches and players are on this list?http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.jsp

 

[dgreen]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

The guy was the best WR on his own team only 4/18 years.

XYou'd have a very difficult time finding anyone on those Redskins' teams to argue for Gary Clark over Art Monk.

sure....unless you looked at things like, oh STATS or PRO BOWL selections......

Exactly. People that actually played and coached wouldn't just look at stats and pro bowls.

How many coaches and players are on this list?http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.jsp

I'll guess zero. What's your point?

 

[dslaw]

Madden, Monk, Moon, Thurman Thomas, White. I have no problem with Aikman if he makes it. Not great stats like Young, Marino et. al, but lots of wins. Derrick Thomas is close and the Redskin fan in me wants to see Grimm get in but I doubt it.

 

[Autumn Wind]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

It's not called the Hall of The Very Good

It's not called the Hall of Great, either, so I don't see your point.

Look up the hall on Google and you'll see this text: "Honoring the great players of the professional football world since 1920."

Good for Google. His argument was about the name. That argument doesn't make sense. If we went off the name, only famous people would get in.

That's just being obtuse. It should be pretty obvious what a player/coach needs to do to achieve "Fame" from the Hall standpoint. What this Monk argument seems to be boiling down to is whether or not a player who racked up impressive career stats but never dominated during any stretch of time, deserves inclusion.

 

[Autumn Wind]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

The guy was the best WR on his own team only 4/18 years.

XYou'd have a very difficult time finding anyone on those Redskins' teams to argue for Gary Clark over Art Monk.

sure....unless you looked at things like, oh STATS or PRO BOWL selections......

Exactly. People that actually played and coached wouldn't just look at stats and pro bowls.

How many coaches and players are on this list?http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.jsp

I'll guess zero. What's your point?

Simply that what Monk's teammates think of him is irrelevant. As is what any players, past or present, think.

 

[thejag]

As much as I can't stand listening to him, Madden should definitely be in as a coach. 10 years in Oakland: | Reg. Season | Playoffs |+----------+--------------+----------+| Year TM | W L T | W L |+----------+--------------+----------+| 1969 oak | 12 1 1 | 1 1 || 1970 oak | 8 4 2 | 1 1 || 1971 oak | 8 4 2 | 0 0 || 1972 oak | 10 3 1 | 0 1 || 1973 oak | 9 4 1 | 1 1 || 1974 oak | 12 2 0 | 1 1 || 1975 oak | 11 3 0 | 1 1 || 1976 oak | 13 1 0 | 3 0 || 1977 oak | 11 3 0 | 1 1 || 1978 oak | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |+----------+--------------+----------+| TOTALS | 103 32 7 | 9 7 |+----------+--------------+----------+That's an average of 3.2 losses per year. Only 3 years without a playoff win. Top 10 points scored all 10 seasons, top 5 in 6 of those, #1 3 times. Top 10 points against 5 times. As with any great run, the team aged and his final season he had his worst, record-wise. Of course, 2 seasons later they won the SB under Flores, so the guy didn't bail out at the end of the run just to save his record. All this is from an avowed Raider-hater, too.

 

[Chase Stuart]

How many HOFers are there with just one Pro Bowl appearance?

 

[Autumn Wind]

As much as I can't stand listening to him, Madden should definitely be in as a coach.

10 years in Oakland:

| Reg. Season | Playoffs |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| Year TM | W L T | W L |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| 1969 oak | 12 1 1 | 1 1 |

| 1970 oak | 8 4 2 | 1 1 |

| 1971 oak | 8 4 2 | 0 0 |

| 1972 oak | 10 3 1 | 0 1 |

| 1973 oak | 9 4 1 | 1 1 |

| 1974 oak | 12 2 0 | 1 1 |

| 1975 oak | 11 3 0 | 1 1 |

| 1976 oak | 13 1 0 | 3 0 |

| 1977 oak | 11 3 0 | 1 1 |

| 1978 oak | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| TOTALS | 103 32 7 | 9 7 |

+----------+--------------+----------+

That's an average of 3.2 losses per year. Only 3 years without a playoff win. Top 10 points scored all 10 seasons, top 5 in 6 of those, #1 3 times. Top 10 points against 5 times. As with any great run, the team aged and his final season he had his worst, record-wise. Of course, 2 seasons later they won the SB under Flores, so the guy didn't bail out at the end of the run just to save his record.

All this is from an avowed Raider-hater, too.

Spot on. How he is not already in is beyond me.

 

[dgreen]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

The guy was the best WR on his own team only 4/18 years.

XYou'd have a very difficult time finding anyone on those Redskins' teams to argue for Gary Clark over Art Monk.

sure....unless you looked at things like, oh STATS or PRO BOWL selections......

Exactly. People that actually played and coached wouldn't just look at stats and pro bowls.

How many coaches and players are on this list?http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.jsp

I'll guess zero. What's your point?

Simply that what Monk's teammates think of him is irrelevant. As is what any players, past or present, think.

And what those guys on that list think is irrelevant as to whether Gary Clark is better than Art Monk.You're mixing up two different arguments.

5Rings said Art Monk wasn't even the best on his team in 14 out of 18 years. I disagreed and used the opinions of the people that actually played and coached as my evidence. That had nothing to do with whether Art Monk should be in the HOF. It only had to do with whether Art Monk is better than Gary Clark.

 

[dgreen]

How many HOFers are there with just one Pro Bowl appearance?

I know John Riggins is one.

 

[Autumn Wind]

And what those guys on that list think is irrelevant as to whether Gary Clark is better than Art Monk.

You're mixing up two different arguments.

5Rings said Art Monk wasn't even the best on his team in 14 out of 18 years. I disagreed and used the opinions of the people that actually played and coached as my evidence. That had nothing to do with whether Art Monk should be in the HOF. It only had to do with whether Art Monk is better than Gary Clark.

Fair enough.

 

[Autumn Wind]

How many HOFers are there with just one Pro Bowl appearance?

I know John Riggins is one.

He gets in on the strength of the '70s mohawk.

 

[Chase Stuart]

How many HOFers are there with just one Pro Bowl appearance?

I know John Riggins is one.

Yup. That's the only one I know of too.

 

[dgreen]

The HOF is still a joke until they let Art Monk in...

It's not called the Hall of The Very Good

It's not called the Hall of Great, either, so I don't see your point.

Look up the hall on Google and you'll see this text: "Honoring the great players of the professional football world since 1920."

Good for Google. His argument was about the name. That argument doesn't make sense. If we went off the name, only famous people would get in.

That's just being obtuse. It should be pretty obvious what a player/coach needs to do to achieve "Fame" from the Hall standpoint.

Just like our other back-and-forth, I think you are arguing something different than I am. BassNBrew was throwing out the same old tired argument that it's not called the Hall of Very Good. I was just making a joke back that it's not the Hall of Great, either. The name is irrelevant, is my main point.

What this Monk argument seems to be boiling down to is whether or not a player who racked up impressive career stats but never dominated during any stretch of time, deserves inclusion.

I agree. How many people do you think would have said at the time Art Monk retired the he is not HOF-worthy? My guess is very few. It seems to me that the numbers people started putting up after Monk retired are one of the main reasons keeping Monk out. That doesn't make sense, in my opinion.

 

[Autumn Wind]

I agree. How many people do you think would have said at the time Art Monk retired the he is not HOF-worthy? My guess is very few. It seems to me that the numbers people started putting up after Monk retired are one of the main reasons keeping Monk out. That doesn't make sense, in my opinion.

I think more damaging to Monk was that he appeared to hang around a few seasons too long.

 

[Husker]

I originally thought Monk should not be in the Hall.However, the more I think - those numbers come from sustained excellence, not sustained "good".As a Cowboy fan, who did I fear to make the big catch against my team? Clark might get more catches, but regarding the drive/game changing catch my eyes always scanned for where Monk was lining up.I think Monk has to get in (wow that hurt to say).

 

[Toxic Gatorade]

The 15 finalists for induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2006:Troy AikmanHarry CarsonL.C. GreenwoodRuss GrimmClaude HumphreyMichael IrvinBob KuechenbergJohn MaddenArt MonkWarren Moon Derrick ThomasThurman ThomasReggie WhiteRayfield WrightGary Zimmerman

4 will get in, possibly 6 maybe 7.WMoon, TThomas, RWhite, JMadden get in for sure.TAikman, BKuechenberg and DThomas are on the final bubble.IMO I wouldn't mind seeing Monk or Zimmerman either.

 

[stevec]

How many HOFers are there with just one Pro Bowl appearance?

I know John Riggins is one.

Yup. That's the only one I know of too.

Didn't the pro Bowl only recently start naming fullbacks separately?The biggest problem I have with the hall is positional breakdown (modern):

QB: 21

RB: 24 (HB & FB)

WR: 19

TE: 6

OL: 31

DL: 27

LB: 16

DB: 17

PK: 1

Coach:20

Contributor:18

So many QB's are elected it's not funny. The only 2 positions that are sort of close in numbers to QB found on a typical team are non-players: coaches & contributors. I think electing an average of 1 non-player a year makes sense. I don't see any broadcasters and only 1 "official".

I think you should have at least twice as many OL, DL, LB, & DB's as QB's. The ration on the field is 3:1 or greater, and while QB's do have a huge impact, so does the defensive playcaller, usually a LB.

 

[dgreen]

I agree. How many people do you think would have said at the time Art Monk retired the he is not HOF-worthy? My guess is very few. It seems to me that the numbers people started putting up after Monk retired are one of the main reasons keeping Monk out. That doesn't make sense, in my opinion.

I think more damaging to Monk was that he appeared to hang around a few seasons too long.

A lot of people hang around. I would never hold it against somebody to still hang around and play. There's no point in punishing someone for continuing to play. Even if you do take away for hanging on too long, Monk's end wasn't that bad.
| YEAR TM | GM | REC YDS AVG TD || 1992 was | 16 | 46 644 14.0 3 || 1993 was | 16 | 41 398 9.7 2 || 1994 nyj | 16 | 46 581 12.6 3 || 1995 phi | 3 | 6 114 19.0 0 |1992: Monk was 35 years old. The Redskins were a disaster on offense. Neither Monk nor Clark nor Ricky Sanders did a whole lot. They just came off a dominating SB season and Mark Rypien held out of camp for a little bit. The result was that Rypien was just awful. The running game was even pretty bad. The best thing to happen that season was Art Monk became the all-time leader in receptions in a Monday Night game against Denver.1993: Monk was 36 years old. Gibbs is gone and the entire team hits rock bottom. They went through QBs like crazy. I believe RB Brian Mitchell even played some QB in one game because of injuries.

1994: Monk was 37 years old. He changed teams because the Redskins were headed in a new direction and didn't want to pay an aging receiver. Fans were upset. He goes to the Jets and has a decent year, especially for a 37-year-old in a new system.

1995: Monk was 38 years old. He was pretty much in retirement. The Eagles needed a receiver and brought Monk in for the last three games. This was a 10-6 playoff team that brought an old WR in for some help in a push for the playoffs.

 

[Warhogs]

OK I am sold on Madden now too. Let him in! So I say Reggie White, Warren Moon, Thurman Thomas and Madden. There are a few marginal guys that I really do not care either way. My personal view is that only a few players each year should get in so that you honor the very best not a whole bunch of really good guys. That is just my view.

 

[Tau837]

IIRC, they choose 4-7.

I don't see how Madden or Reggie White are not inducted. Madden is such an prominent NFL figure, and one of the better coaches of all time. He won a playoff game in 7 of the 10 seasons he coached.

Moon and Thurman based on sheer numbers should make it in as well. Thomas was 6th all time in yards from scrimmage when he retired (Payton, Rice, Sanders, Smith, Allen). Moon's passing numbers from the NFL+CFL are well documented.

Aikman on the rings, but maybe not on his first try.

From HOF Selection Process:

There is no set number for any class of enshrinees but, the Board's current ground rules do stipulate that between three and six new members will be selected each year. The 1973 and 1976 classes of three were the smallest ever named.

Moon's passing numbers from the NFL+CFL are well documented.

Pro Football Hall of Fame

Moon

I assume Bass's implication is the same as Chase's.Moon should be in, I agree, but it has absolutely nothing to do with his CFL accomplishments, nor with this silly notion that the HOF cares about CFL accomplishments because it is named the "Pro Football" HOF. It is named that because it is inclusive of leagues that were precursors to and/or merged with the NFL. There is no player inducted based on accomplishments in the CFL, USFL, XFL, Arena League, etc., nor should there be.

Moon deserves to be inducted because of his NFL accomplishments alone. He is currently in the top 5 all time in passing attempts, completions, passing yards, and passing TDs, and he was a 9 time Pro Bowler.

IMO White, Moon, Thurman Thomas, and Madden should be locks. I can also see the arguments for others, but IMO those 4 are the most worthy of this pool.

 

[stevec]

Here's an itnerestign link:

HoF Finalists by Year

The guys who were finalists forever are a mixed bag:

Swann - 14 times - ick.

Eller - 13 times - what took so long?

Hornung - 12 times - never saw, but okay I think.

Mack - 11 times - ok.

Kramer - 10 times & not in.

Closing in on that territory are:

Carson - 7

Greenwood - 6

Monk - 6

Kuechenberg - 5

It seems as though some players gain traction and stay on as finalists - once they make the finals repeatedly, election is quite likely.

I think Greenwood may be getting the Steeler halo effect. Carson, Monk & especially Kuechenberg are likely to get in soon - OL are rarely sexy picks for the HoF, but you need them.