NFL head coaching re-treads (1 Viewer)

[mr. furley]

especially when the coach in question has a PROVEN track record of mediocrity (at best). give a young guy a shot. give a college coach a look. why keep bringing back duds?

1994 was | 3 13 0 | 0 0 |

| 1995 was | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |

| 1996 was | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

| 1997 was | 8 7 1 | 0 0 |

| 1998 was | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |

| 1999 was | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |

| 2000 was | 7 6 0 | 0 0 |

| 2004 oak | 5 11 0 | 0 0 |

| 2005 oak | 4 12 0 | 0 0 |

| 2007 sdg | 1 1 0 | 0 0 |

1 season winning 10 games in TEN YEARS?????? three winning seasons???? one of those he only coached 13 games????

why?

 

[otb_lifer]

especially when the coach in question has a PROVEN track record of mediocrity (at best). give a young guy a shot. give a college coach a look. why keep bringing back duds?1994 was | 3 13 0 | 0 0 || 1995 was | 6 10 0 | 0 0 || 1996 was | 9 7 0 | 0 0 || 1997 was | 8 7 1 | 0 0 || 1998 was | 6 10 0 | 0 0 || 1999 was | 10 6 0 | 1 1 || 2000 was | 7 6 0 | 0 0 || 2004 oak | 5 11 0 | 0 0 || 2005 oak | 4 12 0 | 0 0 || 2007 sdg | 1 1 0 | 0 0 |1 season winning 10 games in TEN YEARS?????? three winning seasons???? one of those he only coached 13 games????why?

Wade Wilson was already hired

 

[mr. furley]

Wade Wilson is an offensive genius

probably woulda brought Scott Studwell with him

 

[Chase Stuart]

give a college coach a look.

Like Spurrier or Saban?Herm Edwards, Bill Belichick, Tony Dungy, Marty Schottenheimer and Mike Shanahan were five of the six NFL coaches in the AFC playoffs last year (which is the only conference that matters). Five of them were re-treads. Seemed to work out OK.(BTW, Norv Turner sucks. But that doesn't mean all retreads are bad. Turner's a bad coordinator, too.)

 

[mr. furley]

those are fine examples of re-treads that worked out.

with Herm, Dungy and Schottenheimer being guys who had won in their first go-round.

Norv has been garbage as an HC from the start yet this is his 3rd gig.

Saban and Spurrier were duds but i'm sure there have been successful coaches from the college ranks. i can't think of any right now but i'm sure they exist.

 

[SSOG]

Saban and Spurrier were duds but i'm sure there have been successful coaches from the college ranks. i can't think of any right now but i'm sure they exist.

Jimmy Johnson, that's about it. You can add Butch Davis and Dennis Erickson to the list of failures, too. And Pete Carroll.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Saban and Spurrier were duds but i'm sure there have been successful coaches from the college ranks. i can't think of any right now :whoosh: but i'm sure they exist.

Jimmy Johnson, that's about it. You can add Butch Davis and Dennis Erickson to the list of failures, too. And Pete Carroll.

Well, Carroll doesn't work. Davis and Erickson, do.

 

[BoltBacker]

In five years with CLE Bill Belichick only had one winning season. His overall record while there was 36-44. Why did NE "re-tread" him?

 

[Chase Stuart]

Dallas currently enjoying their own re-tread.

 

[The Jerk]

I'm sure all the Cowboy fans are not minding how Dallas re-treaded Wade Philliips this year.

In this case, I believe a large part of the hire was that the Cowboys wanted someone familiar with a 3-4 defense, and Phillips fit the need.

 

[mr. furley]

Dallas currently enjoying their own re-tread.

gonna be short-lived methinks

 

[BoltBacker]

Dallas currently enjoying their own re-tread.

I never understood why people were so down on Wade in the first place. He had a winning record. Almost took BUF to a SB.

 

[mr. furley]

In five years with CLE Bill Belichick only had one winning season. His overall record while there was 36-44. Why did NE "re-tread" him?

for every Bill Belichick there is a #### Jauron

 

[mr. furley]

and i'm not talking about NFL coaches who have had success at stops, have winning records and for whatever reason they move on to other jobs later.

i'm talking guys like Norv Turner who have proven that they are trash HC's that keep getting jobs.

 

[Chase Stuart]

and i'm not talking about NFL coaches who have had success at stops, have winning records and for whatever reason they move on to other jobs later.i'm talking guys like Norv Turner who have proven that they are trash HC's that keep getting jobs.

Besides Turner, who do you mean?

 

[The Jerk]

With players, we often see guys who become much better with a change in scenery. Sometimes it's the system, sometimes it's physical maturity, sometimes they just grow up.

Not always, of course. However, guys like Cris Carter and Priest Holmes would fit that category pretty well, I think, and this year's biggest fantasy story so far may be the re-tread Randy Moss.

So it stands to reason a similar dynamic could work with coaches.

 

[mr. furley]

and i'm not talking about NFL coaches who have had success at stops, have winning records and for whatever reason they move on to other jobs later.i'm talking guys like Norv Turner who have proven that they are trash HC's that keep getting jobs.

Besides Turner, who do you mean?

little late for thinking right now. i'll try to get back to this tomorrow. see if i have a point or if the Turner mess just clouded my memory. eta: it's entirely possible this is all a fabrication of my imagination and i have been talking out of my ### all day. that happens more than you might think.

 

[The Jerk]

and i'm not talking about NFL coaches who have had success at stops, have winning records and for whatever reason they move on to other jobs later.i'm talking guys like Norv Turner who have proven that they are trash HC's that keep getting jobs.

Besides Turner, who do you mean?

I think the most accurate point is that the Chargers simply made a bad move. It's not a league-wide trend. I'll try to think of some names who might fit the re-tread label from the past decade.

 

[The Jerk]

Chase, how about the aforementioned Jauron and Herm Edwards. Add them to Turner, and you have 3 of 32 coaches who could be considered re-treads. I'm trying to stay in the past few years and also restrict myself to coaches with career sub-.500 records over multiple seasons.

By the way, Wade Phillips would not qualify by this definition, as he was 48-39 prior to his hire by the Cowboys (although 0-3 in the playoffs).

Edwards 39-41 prior to hire by Chiefs (regular season), 2-3 playoffs

Jauron 36-49 prior to hire by Bills (regular season), 0-1 playoffs

Turner 58-82-1 prior to hire by Chargers (regular season), 1-1 playoffs

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I don't have a problem giving a coach a 2nd chance unless he was god awful the first time around. Norv Turner is a little past his 2nd chance though.

And we all know why Bellichick worked out as a retread now. Better camera crew in Boston compared to Cleveland.

 

[The Jerk]

I think there appear to be more retreads than there are because so many show up as OCs and DCs once they got fired. Then there's always the high-profile college coaching jobs to guys like Spurrier and Bill Callahan. Even Dave Wannstedt might qualify there. UConn 34 Pitt 14

 

[BoltBacker]

Chase, how about the aforementioned Jauron and Herm Edwards.

What are you talking about? Herm Edwards has already had as much success in KC as Vermiel did and he was dealt a very, very bad hand with that entire OL(the REAL star of that offense) retiring and the rest of the offense except for LJ on decline. There's another guy that I just don't understand the criticism that gets levied at him. That Chief team didn't have any business being in the playoffs last year and Edwards did an amazing job getting them there. In six seasons the guy has been better than .500 four times.

 

[BoltBacker]

I don't have a problem giving a coach a 2nd chance unless he was god awful the first time around. Norv Turner is a little past his 2nd chance though.

Yeah. It's his third chance. And as far as I'm concerned his second chance was a mulligan... coaching for al davis and the mess in oak.

 

[The Jerk]

Chase, how about the aforementioned Jauron and Herm Edwards.

What are you talking about? Herm Edwards has already had as much success in KC as Vermiel did and he was dealt a very, very bad hand with that entire OL(the REAL star of that offense) retiring and the rest of the offense except for LJ on decline. There's another guy that I just don't understand the criticism that gets levied at him. That Chief team didn't have any business being in the playoffs last year and Edwards did an amazing job getting them there. In six seasons the guy has been better than .500 four times.

Read the thread, BB. Or at least the rest of the post.I explicitly defined my terms. I'm not anti-Edwards, as my posts defending him prior to last season can attest. I think he's very personable, passionate, insightful, and a competent coach. He barely fits the category, but still... he fits.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I think people fail to realize a couple of things about Norv Turner. 1) He's a well respected entity within the NFL. He might not garner a ton of respect as a head coach, but he's respected as an offensive mind and for being able to develop successful offenses. I would say he's right up there with Mike Martz and Monte Kiffin as coordinators who are given complete and total autonomy over their respective units. He has the support of three Hall Of Fame players, one of which is a high profile broadcaster now, the respect of Jimmy Johnson and what remnants of his coaching tree that still remains in the NFL and Jerry Jones, one of the most powerful owners in all professional sports. That's a lot of street cred on your side. 2) If you listen to Norv talk, the guy comes off as someone who can give a great interview. One thing the Rooney Rule failed to address is that some people are horrible with the press and horrible at articulating themselves. They might be great football minds but they may not possess many soft skills. Good God, does anyone remember Ray Rhodes during his Iggles/Packers years? The guy is a top shelf defensive coordinator, but put a mic in front of the guy and he sounded like a wounded moose with a speech impediment. Norv Turner is probably a great interview. Jon Gruden and Lane Kiffin wowed the hell out of Al Davis. Sometimes it happens. 3) Sometimes it's just luck. Joey Harrington has been a starter for three different franchises now. Anyone expect the guy to get such a long leash in Detroit? Anyone expect Culpepper to fall apart? What about Michael Vick getting tossed out of the NFL? Sometimes some people are in the right place at the right time. People stick with who they know. You know what you are getting with Norv Turner, for better or worse. While that might not be enough for most fans, it does mean something when you are dealing with a job that has a limited talent pool and high stakes.

I agree with you about #1, I just don't know why. I don't claim to know more about offense than Troy Aikman, but he swears by Turner. I just don't see it. Turner's results have been largely underwhelming for the past decade, but people absolutely talk about him like he's a genius. :shuked:

 

[mr. furley]

didn't have time for this thread today. now the game is on.

thinking of sweeping it under the rug and pretending it never happened. :IBTL: