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NFL implications of Hernandez situation? (1 Viewer)

Banger

Footballguy
There's a lot of uncertainty around the Hernandez situation and there likely will be for some time. So BB is one of the brightest coaches in the league, so what does he do knowing that he has 1 NFL wr, one all pro TE coming off back surgery that may or may not be ready for the start of the season and the other half of that awesome two TE tandem that may possibly have played his last down in the NFL.

Training camp hasn't begun yet so does he change the offense? Move to a more conservative run based offense since that now may be where his best talent is? Does he keep the offense the same? Truly if Gronk isn't ready and Hernandez is dealing with off the field issues I can't see BB saying "we run a two TE offense and now Ballard is our Gronk and player X is our AH." It just won't work. It works due to the great talent and not the scheme and Ballard just isn't that good. So the Patriots have to win games and BB is sitting home tonight thinking about the ramifications of this situation. what does he do and hows does this play out?

 

Sarnoff

Footballguy
Tebow moves to TE, has a great year. Becomes a gadget TE an utility player, surviving in the NFL enough to work on his motion, becomes the Pats starting QB when Tom Brady hangs it up for good. Becomes an undefendable threat at QB since he can move like a TE at any time. 12 years from now, he'll have had a HOF-caliber career.

 

KellysHeroes

Footballguy
Tebow moves to TE, has a great year. Becomes a gadget TE an utility player, surviving in the NFL enough to work on his motion, becomes the Pats starting QB when Tom Brady hangs it up for good. Becomes an undefendable threat at QB since he can move like a TE at any time. 12 years from now, he'll have had a HOF-caliber career.
the lord works in mysterious ways

 

moleculo

Footballguy
I'm concerned that the whole patriot offense takes a big hit w/o Hernandez. His versatility is what makes the current offense click. Gronk and Amendola can both be contained be doubleteam or scheme. No Hernandez is a giant monkeywrench, and will make retooling difficult at this point. IMO, they become what they were back in the early 2000s, whatever that was. Strong D, ball control short passing game based on the shotgun spread is my guess. Brady is going to have to rely on a bunch of unknowns, and I guess they will struggle early.

 

JonB86

Footballguy
Tebow moves to TE, has a great year. Becomes a gadget TE an utility player, surviving in the NFL enough to work on his motion, becomes the Pats starting QB when Tom Brady hangs it up for good. Becomes an undefendable threat at QB since he can move like a TE at any time. 12 years from now, he'll have had a HOF-caliber career.
I really hope you are joking......

 

Pots

Footballguy
Tebow moves to TE, has a great year. Becomes a gadget TE an utility player, surviving in the NFL enough to work on his motion, becomes the Pats starting QB when Tom Brady hangs it up for good. Becomes an undefendable threat at QB since he can move like a TE at any time. 12 years from now, he'll have had a HOF-caliber career.
I really hope you are joking......
Why? It's entirely plausible.

 

DiStefano

Footballguy
BB has good ties with the NSA. He'll spy out what the opposing team is doing before they are even aware of it.

 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
Tebow moves to TE, has a great year. Becomes a gadget TE an utility player, surviving in the NFL enough to work on his motion, becomes the Pats starting QB when Tom Brady hangs it up for good. Becomes an undefendable threat at QB since he can move like a TE at any time. 12 years from now, he'll have had a HOF-caliber career.
I really hope you are joking......
Why? It's entirely plausible.
no, it isnt.

 

werdnoynek

Footballguy
I wonder if Mark Harrison could add 15 lbs and play a similar role as Hernandez. The guy is a massive WR with similar skills as Hernandez.

 

Pots

Footballguy
Tebow moves to TE, has a great year. Becomes a gadget TE an utility player, surviving in the NFL enough to work on his motion, becomes the Pats starting QB when Tom Brady hangs it up for good. Becomes an undefendable threat at QB since he can move like a TE at any time. 12 years from now, he'll have had a HOF-caliber career.
I really hope you are joking......
Why? It's entirely plausible.
no, it isnt.
So many haters... :yawn:

 

captain_amazing

Footballguy
They'll just move UDFA TE Sudfeld into Hernandez role on Patriot on

:bag:
You beat me to it, minus the bag. :sleeper:

Based on some very limited reports from minicamp (which should be taken with a grain of salt anyway), Sudfeld has a physique and style of play similar to Hernandez and was making some standout catches.

 

Mapmaker

Footballguy
They'll just move UDFA TE Sudfeld into Hernandez role on Patriot on

:bag:
You beat me to it, minus the bag.:sleeper:

Based on some very limited reports from minicamp (which should be taken with a grain of salt anyway), Sudfeld has a physique and style of play similar to Hernandez and was making some standout catches.
Exactly ... from my understanding of OTA reports all the other TE's on the roster seem more suited to the Gronk role rather than what Hernandez provides ... Sudfeld seems like the closest fit from the TE pool

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
NE always has the option of bringing in Lloyd, Branch, or Gaffney, all of whom could step in and know the system. They may not be top tier talent at this point, but they could get up to speed quickly if needed.

 

Bamac

Footballguy
NE always has the option of bringing in Lloyd, Branch, or Gaffney, all of whom could step in and know the system. They may not be top tier talent at this point, but they could get up to speed quickly if needed.
Yeah, Lloyd's locker room issues suddenly don't seem so grievous right now.
 

Bruce Hammond

Footballguy
I think Lloyd's return is a good possibility at this point.

Those who think Tebow can just move right into a starting TE role apparently believe in sprinkle fairies too. What makes you assume he has any idea how to block as a TE needs to, can run routes, can catch passes? Has he ever done this at any level? Now suddenly in 2 months he's going to learn it at the NFL level, competing against NFL caliber defenses? Waaaaaaay too much Tebow Kool Aid you guys have been drinking.

 

matttyl

Footballguy
Tebow moves to TE, has a great year. Becomes a gadget TE an utility player, surviving in the NFL enough to work on his motion, becomes the Pats starting QB when Tom Brady hangs it up for good. Becomes an undefendable threat at QB since he can move like a TE at any time. 12 years from now, he'll have had a HOF-caliber career.
I really hope you are joking......
Why? It's entirely plausible.
no, it isnt.
It's far more plausible than some of the excuses the Hernandez supporters are giving about him having "no involvement".

 

Tackling Dummies

Footballguy
Vereen is the benefactor. Not that he'll be in the slot like Hernandez was, but featuring a 2 RB set and having Vereen as the check down is not too far outside of a "normal" formation in their hurry up offense.

 

moleculo

Footballguy
I'm concerned that the whole patriot offense takes a big hit w/o Hernandez. His versatility is what makes the current offense click. Gronk and Amendola can both be contained be doubleteam or scheme. No Hernandez is a giant monkeywrench, and will make retooling difficult at this point. IMO, they become what they were back in the early 2000s, whatever that was. Strong D, ball control short passing game based on the shotgun spread is my guess. Brady is going to have to rely on a bunch of unknowns, and I guess they will struggle early.
The 2003 Patriots were 14-2 and won the Superbowl. This team’s rushing attack was split between Antowain Smith and Kevin Faulk, both with about 180 rushes and 640 yards. The passing attack had 5 guys with nearly 30 receptions or more: Branch (57, 803,3) Faulk (48,440,0), Troy Brown (40, 472,4), Daniel Graham (38, 409,4), David Givens (34,510,6), and Christian Fauria (28,205,2). Three WR’s, 2 TE, and a RB.

Brady threw for 3620 yards, 23 TDs and 12 ints. Pretty low by today’s standards, but good for 6th in yards, 10th in TDs.

This is pretty close to what I expect the 2013 Patriots offense to look like w/o Hernandez: Brady coming in around QB6-8, and passing yards and TD’s pretty evenly distributed to a bunch of nobodys. Obviously, we would expect Gronk and Amendola to be at the top of the receptions and yards list, but I expect the passing distribution to be so diluted that their value is limited.

IMO, the Patriots won the superbowls early on the basis of team unity above individual performance. They have gotten away with that in 2007 when they brought in Moss and then they focused their offense around a few key players – Moss, Welker, Gronk, Hernandez. I think that in the absence of Welker and Hernandez and a limited Gronk, Belichick will look back at how he became successful in the first place, which was more about spreading it around.

From a fantasy perspective, this isn’t a great place to be. If there is value here, it’s in the bottom tier guys as there won’t be a huge difference between them and the guys at the top of the FF points food chain.

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
IMO, the Patriots won the superbowls early on the basis of team unity above individual performance.
While I agree in principle, I think they won Super Bowls mostly on the strength of having one of if not the best defenses in the league.

As for the rest of what you posted, the Pats have remodeled their team and have a much different philosophy, based mostly on trying to keep their stars and better players. IMO, "back in the day," there were several good but not great players and the great ones were playing for low dollars. Over the years, those players needed more money and therefore left less cap dollars for everyone else. That's causes them to change the dynamic of the team some. Even so, and even in not winning a SB in 8 seasons, NE still has had the best regular season record of any franchise.

I don't think we will see a return to the old days of many players with 30 catches. I think they will not carry enough skill position bodies to make that a reality. They previously carried more WR and RB than they do these days (and obviously they carry a zillion tight ends now as well).

We are still 2-3 months away from playing actual games. The Patriots will be winless in all their games played in June. Either the guys they have will show promise or they will move on to Plan B, which could include bringing back some of their old receivers (Lloyd, Branch, Gaffney) or trading for someone new. People are making a rush to judgment that the new guys on their roster can't play and won't be productive. At this point, it would be difficult to argue either side of that . . . we don't know how they will do, good, bad, or indifferent.

I still think Amendola (who I would not call an injury risk) will mostly fill the void left by Welker. Gronk should be available for at least 3/4 of the season (provided he stays healthy), Edelman showed he could be productive, Ballard could be a serviceable TE, and Vereen has shown he can play a Faulk/Woodhead role. Realistically, they need one other WR to emerge that can be reliable and somewhat productive, whether that be one of the rookies or one of the retreads from other teams. Add one of their old veterans to the mix and I don't see where the sky is falling.

Look at the last 2 seasons with Brady, BB, and McDaniels as OC. They put up 589 and 557 points on the season with two almost completely different offensive teams (they both had Welker, but that was about it). I'm guessing they will be able to cobble something together that will not leave them lacking in yardage or points scored.

 

Lord Fantasy

Footballguy
I feel like we've been looking for that New England WR to own since Brady and Moss had their huge season.

IIRC we were looking for that breakout WR in the summer of 2011. And then New England hit us with the two-tight end set.

Maybe the personnel dictates massive doses of Ridley, Vareen & Bolden.

This year's schedule isn't super-friendly. They face seven top-10 defenses against the run. Bbut since they aren't a one-dimensional running team then maybe Brady has enough weapons to keep defenses off balance and they do a hurry-up running offense as some other posters have suggested.

 

donkshow

Footballguy
Even though it's Brady, this could become a huge running team until Gronk comes back, just because Amendola and then... Edelman.

 

Mr Non Sequitur

Footballguy
Anarchy99 said:
IMO, the Patriots won the superbowls early on the basis of team unity above individual performance.
While I agree in principle, I think they won Super Bowls mostly on the strength of having one of if not the best defenses in the league.

As for the rest of what you posted, the Pats have remodeled their team and have a much different philosophy, based mostly on trying to keep their stars and better players. IMO, "back in the day," there were several good but not great players and the great ones were playing for low dollars. Over the years, those players needed more money and therefore left less cap dollars for everyone else. That's causes them to change the dynamic of the team some. Even so, and even in not winning a SB in 8 seasons, NE still has had the best regular season record of any franchise.

I don't think we will see a return to the old days of many players with 30 catches. I think they will not carry enough skill position bodies to make that a reality. They previously carried more WR and RB than they do these days (and obviously they carry a zillion tight ends now as well).

We are still 2-3 months away from playing actual games. The Patriots will be winless in all their games played in June. Either the guys they have will show promise or they will move on to Plan B, which could include bringing back some of their old receivers (Lloyd, Branch, Gaffney) or trading for someone new. People are making a rush to judgment that the new guys on their roster can't play and won't be productive. At this point, it would be difficult to argue either side of that . . . we don't know how they will do, good, bad, or indifferent.

I still think Amendola (who I would not call an injury risk) will mostly fill the void left by Welker. Gronk should be available for at least 3/4 of the season (provided he stays healthy), Edelman showed he could be productive, Ballard could be a serviceable TE, and Vereen has shown he can play a Faulk/Woodhead role. Realistically, they need one other WR to emerge that can be reliable and somewhat productive, whether that be one of the rookies or one of the retreads from other teams. Add one of their old veterans to the mix and I don't see where the sky is falling.

Look at the last 2 seasons with Brady, BB, and McDaniels as OC. They put up 589 and 557 points on the season with two almost completely different offensive teams (they both had Welker, but that was about it). I'm guessing they will be able to cobble something together that will not leave them lacking in yardage or points scored.
The OLine is perfectly capable of run blocking as needed, would not shock me if they found running plays for Ridley and Vereen and also getting Vereen the ball in space with some swing passes. New England is not barren of talent plus they have Tom Brady who is going to make everyone look better. I see a nice uptick though for the RBs in New England who will need to be relied upon.

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
So many haters... :yawn:
I am a huge Tebow fan.

I also love my daughter who plays soccer, but I am not delusional enough to think she will be a hall of fame soccer player.
Is she one of the most decorated college soccer players of all time? Was she signed by a pro soccer team? Has she already helped lead a pro soccer team to a playoff win? Unless the answer is yes to all of those, your comparison is bonkers.

 

Sarnoff

Footballguy
donkshow said:
Even though it's Brady, this could become a huge running team until Gronk comes back, just because Amendola and then... Edelman.
Tebow missing from your list.

 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
Ilov80s said:
ghostguy123 said:
Pots said:
So many haters... :yawn:
I am a huge Tebow fan.

I also love my daughter who plays soccer, but I am not delusional enough to think she will be a hall of fame soccer player.
Is she one of the most decorated college soccer players of all time? Was she signed by a pro soccer team? Has she already helped lead a pro soccer team to a playoff win? Unless the answer is yes to all of those, your comparison is bonkers.
My daughter has done as much in soccer as Tebow has at TE. More actually.

 

ZWK

Footballguy
Tebow moves to TE, has a great year. Becomes a gadget TE an utility player, surviving in the NFL enough to work on his motion, becomes the Pats starting QB when Tom Brady hangs it up for good. Becomes an undefendable threat at QB since he can move like a TE at any time. 12 years from now, he'll have had a HOF-caliber career.
Tebow might move to TE and put up starting fantasy numbers, but there are a lot of other equally likely possibilities worth considering. Some other ways that things could turn out:

Danny Amendola catches 130 passes in the 11 games that he plays.

They sign Vonta Leach to get back to the ground game, and Ridley, Vereen, and Bolden each run for 1,000 yards.

They use Vereen as their wild card and move him all over the formation, and goes for 1,000 yards rushing and 1,000 yards receiving (joining the Marshall Faulk & Roger Craig club).

They double up on the Welker role, playing Amendola and Edelman on opposite sides of the formation - both top 100 receptions.

They trade for rookie Jordan Reed, who steps right in and follows in Hernandez's footsteps on the field (but not off it).

Amendola, Dobson, Jenkins, Gronk, and Ballard each finish with 600-900 yards receiving, and Brady has another 4500/35 season without having any receiver over 25 VBD.

Nate Washington and Tony Scheffler, both cut for cap reasons, get brought in and thrown into the starting lineup; they end up as the team's two leading receivers (as Amendola and Gronkowski miss too much time with injuries).

 

pittstownkiller

Footballguy
Ilov80s said:
ghostguy123 said:
Pots said:
So many haters... :yawn:
I am a huge Tebow fan.

I also love my daughter who plays soccer, but I am not delusional enough to think she will be a hall of fame soccer player.
Is she one of the most decorated college soccer players of all time? Was she signed by a pro soccer team? Has she already helped lead a pro soccer team to a playoff win? Unless the answer is yes to all of those, your comparison is bonkers.
My daughter has done as much in soccer as Tebow has at TE. More actually.
Tebow is a better soccer player than your daughter.
 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
Ilov80s said:
ghostguy123 said:
Pots said:
So many haters... :yawn:
I am a huge Tebow fan.

I also love my daughter who plays soccer, but I am not delusional enough to think she will be a hall of fame soccer player.
Is she one of the most decorated college soccer players of all time? Was she signed by a pro soccer team? Has she already helped lead a pro soccer team to a playoff win? Unless the answer is yes to all of those, your comparison is bonkers.
My daughter has done as much in soccer as Tebow has at TE. More actually.
Well he posted about Tebow being a HoF QB so it still isn't any kind of similar comparison. What other professional athletes does your daughter have a better chance of surpassing with her soccer career?

 

JonB86

Footballguy
I love how people talk about college achievements like they are really meaningful in the NFL for a quarterback, Denard Robinson is (I believe) the no.1 all time QB for rushing yards in college - is he playing QB? Collin Klein had quite the QB career at Kansas State - he got a cup of coffee with the Texans because he didn't listen to people telling him to change positions. Vince Young was an all everything QB in college, he won Rookie of the Year and has gone off the map. I'm sorry but Tim Tebow is not a good NFL QB, you can bring up the Pitt game all you want but nobody wants to talk about the week after when they got destroyed, by the Patriots of course.

 

Sabertooth

Footballguy
I think the team loses 8 games to be honest. Miami is going to take a serious run at the division this season. That said I think you might see a little something different each game. Sometimes Edelman, sometimes Amendola. Gronk will be leaned on (too) heavily. I think Ballard gets 30-50 balls. I think there might be a few games where Dobson and Boyce show some flashes and others where Brady looks like he's coming to the end of the line.

I will be interesting to see how they deal with frustration.

I am surprised they haven't brought Brandon Lloyd back and expect them to do so.

 

Shutout

Footballguy
Changing the offense to run more would restrict their greatest player so I don't see that being the fundamental philosophy.

The straw I am drawing out of this lottery is Mark Harrison. Since this happened so early, I think they have time to use Harrison in the Joker TE role. Its a big stretch because Harrison is actually a WR, but the Patriots enjoy teaching guys various roles and Harrison has thephysical tools to do it. THat's the shot I am calling.

 

Faust

MVP
I think the team loses 8 games to be honest. Miami is going to take a serious run at the division this season. That said I think you might see a little something different each game. Sometimes Edelman, sometimes Amendola. Gronk will be leaned on (too) heavily. I think Ballard gets 30-50 balls. I think there might be a few games where Dobson and Boyce show some flashes and others where Brady looks like he's coming to the end of the line.

I will be interesting to see how they deal with frustration.

I am surprised they haven't brought Brandon Lloyd back and expect them to do so.
The Patriots let everyone know that there were locker room issues with Lloyd:

NFL.com's Ian Rapoport would be "beyond shocked" if the Patriots re-signed free agent Brandon Lloyd.
So would the Boston Globe's Greg A. Bedard. ESPN's Adam Schefter reported in early March that Lloyd would be amenable to returning to the Pats at a discounted rate, but the interest isn't mutual after Lloyd underproduced on the field last season and was a locker-room lawyer off of it. Lloyd hasn't drawn a whiff of interest since being cut loose on March 16.

Related: Patriots

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Apr 10 - 2:36 PM
ESPN's John Clayton "would be surprised" if free agent WR Brandon Lloyd doesn't have a job in the next week or two.
We're not so sure. Lloyd, who will turn 32 in July, hasn't generated a flicker of interest since the Patriots cut him on March 16. There's a ton of stink attached to his resume after playing for six different teams in 10 seasons, and he reportedly irked some people inside the Pats with his offbeat personality. Moreover, Lloyd can't make anyone miss after the catch and no longer can stretch the field. He may end up waiting around until camp before getting a shot at a roster spot.


Source: ESPN.com

May 7 - 10:43 AM
 

Faust

MVP
With the depth of their WR & TE groups now among the weakest in the NFL - who is likely to get a look during training camp?

 

Faust

MVP
@RavensInsider
twitter_bird.png


Patriots' current salary-cap space under $123 million NFL limit: $8.247 million available, includes Aaron Hernandez $4.073 million 2013 cap
@AdamSchefter: By releasing Aaron Hernandez today, Patriots have waived all rights to recoup bonus money or salary through the CBA.”
 

twistd

Footballguy
I think Lloyd's return is a good possibility at this point.

Those who think Tebow can just move right into a starting TE role apparently believe in sprinkle fairies too. What makes you assume he has any idea how to block as a TE needs to, can run routes, can catch passes? Has he ever done this at any level? Now suddenly in 2 months he's going to learn it at the NFL level, competing against NFL caliber defenses? Waaaaaaay too much Tebow Kool Aid you guys have been drinking.
I agree completely. Jimmy Graham played a season at Miami at TE. Then was on the Saints for a year before he really started learning the position. He exploded in his second year with the Saints. He is still learning the position. I think Jimmy Graham has athletic skills that are superior to Tebow for the TE position. Tebow may have the athletic talent to play the position, but I think it would take two to three years of dedicated work at the position to really be able to contribute at TE. I don't think there is any guarantee that his skills would translate to TE. It is possible, but making an impact at TE this year is almost an impossibility.

 

pghrob

Hail to the Chief
Tebow moves to TE, has a great year. Becomes a gadget TE an utility player, surviving in the NFL enough to work on his motion, becomes the Pats starting QB when Tom Brady hangs it up for good. Becomes an undefendable threat at QB since he can move like a TE at any time. 12 years from now, he'll have had a HOF-caliber career.
the lord works in mysterious ways
:rolling:

 

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