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NFL Labor Talks Are Over! (1 Viewer)

rockbottom895

Footballguy
NFL labor talks broke off Tuesday three days before the start of free agency, leaving teams and players in a quandary about negotiating new contracts.

Gene Upshaw, executive director of the NFL Players Association, spent the last three days meeting in New York and Washington with commissioner Paul Tagliabue.

"We're deadlocked. There's nowhere to go," Upshaw said. "There's no reason to continue meeting."

Although the contract does not expire until after the 2007 season, this is a critical period in the negotiations to extend the 12-year-old contract. Talks have been going on for more than a year.

Without an extension, the 2007 season would become a so-called uncapped year with no spending limit and no minimum, and players could potentially face a lockout in 2008.

Team officials and player agents have said that doing business without an extension -- particularly with the free agent signing period set to begin Friday and the draft on April 29-30 -- will prove virtually impossible. Because of the extreme circumstances that would exist with an uncapped year on the horizon, it would be difficult to meet the financial expectations of free agents and high-round draft choices.

Free agency is scheduled to start Friday. If the deal is not extended, this would be the last year with a salary cap, so agents and team officials want to know how to structure contracts.

For example, if there is no extension, the salary cap is expected to be about $95 million this season and annual raises after 2006 in a long-term deal would be limited to 30 percent. If the deal is extended the cap could be $10 million or more higher.

The sides have agreed on a number of issues. The biggest one is changing the formula for the amount of money to go to the players from "designated gross revenues" -- primarily television and ticket sales -- to "total gross revenues," which include almost every bit a money a a team generates.

However, they differ on the percentage of revenues to be allocated to the players -- the union is asking for 60 percent and the league's current offer is 56.2 percent.

However, there are also disputes among groups of owners on that issue, too. Tagliabue has called a league meeting in New York for Thursday to try to resolve them.

Teams with lower revenues -- mostly small-market clubs -- say that if the contributions to the players' fund are equally apportioned among 32 franchises, they will have to pay a substantially larger proportion of their nontelevision and ticket money because they have less. Owners of high-revenue teams, like Dallas' Jerry Jones, claim spreading the load equally would force some teams to work harder to generate new sources of money.

Another high-revenue owner, New England's Robert Kraft, says the formula does not take stadium debt into account, as he has on Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Mass.

ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli reported Monday that league owners are scheduled to meet Tuesday via conference call to discuss the status of negotiations.

Two owners told Pasquarelli on Monday afternoon that they have delayed their departures from Indianapolis, site of the NFL scouting combine since Wednesday, to accommodate the 6 p.m. ET timing of the conference call.

Information from The Associated Press and ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli was used in this report.

 
See, this is why Pro Football Talk is a bull#### website that shouldn't have any place around here.

I think there should be an explicit rule here on this forum that posting anything from that website and trying to pass it off as fact should result in explusion from the message board.

I'm sick of reading up in threads like this:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=228039

Where it is a foregone conclusion that this "news" is actually news, and then it turns out to be completely false.

PFT just tres to stir up controversy and throw darts in a pitch black room, hoping that they can land one on the donkey's ### once in a while.

As for this, I swear the NFL will crumble in the next few years if they do not reach a labor agreement VERY SOON.

Because I know I am not alone when I say that I'll quit watching football if there is no salary cap. The NFL was certainly successful before the Salary Cap, but it was not even close to the powerhouse it's become today. I'm not going to support greedy owners.

Owners are arguing over a few pennies relative to the stacks and stacks of money they have from being an NFL owner. If there is no salary cap, they'll go from sharing a small bit of the surplus to keeping all of their revenue (which might be equal to what it is now, but will come at the expense of the rest of the teams and the league's stability).

 
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See, this is why Pro Football Talk is a bull#### website that shouldn't have any place around here.

I think there should be an explicit rule here on this forum that posting anything from that website and trying to pass it off as fact should result in explusion from the message board.

I'm sick of reading up in threads like this:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=228039

Where it is a foregone conclusion that this "news" is actually news, and then it turns out to be completely false.

PFT just tres to stir up controversy and throw darts in a pitch black room, hoping that they can land one on the donkey's ### once in a while.

As for this, I swear the NFL will crumble in the next few years if they do not reach a labor agreement VERY SOON.

Because I know I am not alone when I say that I'll quit watching football if there is no salary cap. The NFL was certainly successful before the Salary Cap, but it was not even close to the powerhouse it's become today. I'm not going to support greedy owners.

Owners are arguing over a few pennies relative to the stacks and stacks of money they have from being an NFL owner. If there is no salary cap, they'll go from sharing a small bit of the surplus to keeping all of their revenue (which might be equal to what it is now, but will come at the expense of the rest of the teams and the league's stability).
:goodposting:
 
If true then the NFL may become another NBA or MLB. I truly hope that this doesn't happen. This may destroy the league.

 
I'm not siding with the NFL, but I think they maintain the long-term power here and a stalemate is ultimately much worse for the NFLPA. The NFLPA will cave sooner or later.

You may be seeing the end of Upshaw's tenure as head of NFLPA if there is not a fairly quick resolution. If he can't get this done, they will be looking for new leadership.

 
I'm not siding with the NFL, but I think they maintain the long-term power here and a stalemate is ultimately much worse for the NFLPA. The NFLPA will cave sooner or later.You may be seeing the end of Upshaw's tenure as head of NFLPA if there is not a fairly quick resolution. If he can't get this done, they will be looking for new leadership.
Yep. Exactly. The owners have generally made their money outside of football, and would do just fine in the long-term. Where are all those NFL players gonna make their money (or get their egos stroked) without the NFL? CFL? Arena League? Flipping burgers or selling cars? Hard to get endorsements when you're never on TV and people have forgotten all about you after your college career is over.The owners have the leverage on this one and in my mind, they have to use it. It sucks being a football fan, but the NFLPA sounds like they are getting a little too big for their britches. That, and they're the ones threatening the long-term viability of the FFL industry...... ;)
 
The owners have shut the NFLPA down not once, but twice over the years...and if anything the players have even less leverage now. This will get done, the NFLPA doesn't want an uncapped year, because that will make this free agency period devastating potentially; particularly for the veterans.

 
What it means is press your bets on the 'Skins to win the Super Bowl. 2-0 on Super Bowls in the strike years, baby! :thumbup:

 
See, this is why Pro Football Talk is a bull#### website that shouldn't have any place around here.

I think there should be an explicit rule here on this forum that posting anything from that website and trying to pass it off as fact should result in explusion from the message board.

I'm sick of reading up in threads like this:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=228039

Where it is a foregone conclusion that this "news" is actually news, and then it turns out to be completely false.

PFT just tres to stir up controversy and throw darts in a pitch black room, hoping that they can land one on the donkey's ### once in a while.

As for this, I swear the NFL will crumble in the next few years if they do not reach a labor agreement VERY SOON.

Because I know I am not alone when I say that I'll quit watching football if there is no salary cap. The NFL was certainly successful before the Salary Cap, but it was not even close to the powerhouse it's become today. I'm not going to support greedy owners.

Owners are arguing over a few pennies relative to the stacks and stacks of money they have from being an NFL owner. If there is no salary cap, they'll go from sharing a small bit of the surplus to keeping all of their revenue (which might be equal to what it is now, but will come at the expense of the rest of the teams and the league's stability).
Huh? In the nicest way possible, I cant find a word short of idiotic to describe this post. PFT reports whats going on. The NFL was well on its way to getting a deal done, but Upshaw is screwing things up.

PFT ISNT CAUSING THE NFL LABOR TALKS TO BREAK DOWN!

They're just reporting on it!

I dont know what your problem is with them, but get over it. They aren't "throwing darts" they arent "guessing."

Quit making yourself sound stupid by bashing them when you should be bashing the NFL.

 
The sides have agreed on a number of issues. The biggest one is changing the formula for the amount of money to go to the players from "designated gross revenues" -- primarily television and ticket sales -- to "total gross revenues," which include almost every bit a money a a team generates.However, they differ on the percentage of revenues to be allocated to the players -- the union is asking for 60 percent and the league's current offer is 56.2 percent.However, there are also disputes among groups of owners on that issue, too. Tagliabue has called a league meeting in New York for Thursday to try to resolve them.
That means tomorrow, Wednesday, will be "dire panic day", and Thursday Tagliabue will pull out all the stops to get an agreement from the owners. They'll probably each use the next 2 days to talk those on their side of the dispute up or down to 58% or so.
 
Because I know I am not alone when I say that I'll quit watching football if there is no salary cap.
If it happens and an uncapped season begins in 2007, you likely will be alone. You could do your shopping or something.
 
The owners have shut the NFLPA down not once, but twice over the years...and if anything the players have even less leverage now. This will get done, the NFLPA doesn't want an uncapped year, because that will make this free agency period devastating potentially; particularly for the veterans.
:goodposting: Particularly Upshaw's "I'm leaving town" quote strikes me as a lot of grandstanding. Just another case of all sides using rhetoric while trying to grab what table scraps they can as negotiations wind down.

 
Because I know I am not alone when I say that I'll quit watching football if there is no salary cap.
If it happens and an uncapped season begins in 2007, you likely will be alone. You could do your shopping or something.
Serously. It's not like the league was suffering from lack of interest pre-1993.
 
See, this is why Pro Football Talk is a bull#### website that shouldn't have any place around here.

I think there should be an explicit rule here on this forum that posting anything from that website and trying to pass it off as fact should result in explusion from the message board.

I'm sick of reading up in threads like this:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=228039

Where it is a foregone conclusion that this "news" is actually news, and then it turns out to be completely false.

PFT just tres to stir up controversy and throw darts in a pitch black room, hoping that they can land one on the donkey's ### once in a while.

As for this, I swear the NFL will crumble in the next few years if they do not reach a labor agreement VERY SOON.

Because I know I am not alone when I say that I'll quit watching football if there is no salary cap.  The NFL was certainly successful before the Salary Cap, but it was not even close to the powerhouse it's become today.  I'm not going to support greedy owners.

Owners are arguing over a few pennies relative to the stacks and stacks of money they have from being an NFL owner.  If there is no salary cap, they'll go from sharing a small bit of the surplus to keeping all of their revenue (which might be equal to what it is now, but will come at the expense of the rest of the teams and the league's stability).
Huh? In the nicest way possible, I cant find a word short of idiotic to describe this post. PFT reports whats going on. The NFL was well on its way to getting a deal done, but Upshaw is screwing things up.

PFT ISNT CAUSING THE NFL LABOR TALKS TO BREAK DOWN!

They're just reporting on it!

I dont know what your problem is with them, but get over it. They aren't "throwing darts" they arent "guessing."

Quit making yourself sound stupid by bashing them when you should be bashing the NFL.
Along with this, I saw John Clayton on Mike and Mike in the morning today say that he pretty much guaranteed that it would be completed within the next 24 hours (this was about 12 hours ago). PFT wasn't the only people saying this.
 
Huh?  In the nicest way possible, I cant find a word short of idiotic to describe this post. 
Hi Deisel, You're a vet and we love ya but seriously, if you can't find another word outside of idiotic to describe a post, don't post anything. Use the report button instead.

Thanks.

And FWIW, profootballtalk had nothing negative to do with this here. They give folks gut feels on what they see / hear / think often very early. Is it often wrong? Sure. But that's part of the game when you're throwing stuff out so early.

I don't see them reporting stuff as fact so as long as one understands that, it's cool in my opinion. It is what it is.

J

 
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moronic probably eh? http://www.thesaurus.com

I don't have any idea what this thread is about, or if it's idiotic, just throwing in a similar word.

So let's say that there's no new CBA.

Which teams BENEFIT from the lack of one, and which teams are basically screwed... or fornicated if you don't like the word 'screwed'. ;

 
Huh?  In the nicest way possible, I cant find a word short of idiotic to describe this post. 
Hi Deisel, You're a vet and we love ya but seriously, if you can't find another word outside of idiotic to describe a post, don't post anything. Use the report button instead.

Thanks.

J
Hey Vin, let me extend an olive branch:idiotic = asinine, batty, crazy, daffy, daft, ding-a-ling, dull, dumb, dumdum, fatuous, foolhardy, foolish, gorked, half-witted, hare-brained, harebrained, imbecile, imbecilic, inane, insane, jackass, jerk off, lunatic, moronic, senseless, silly, squirrelly, thick-witted, unintelligent

 
Huh?  In the nicest way possible, I cant find a word short of idiotic to describe this post. 

PFT reports whats going on.  The NFL was well on its way to getting a deal done, but Upshaw is screwing things up.

PFT ISNT CAUSING THE NFL LABOR TALKS TO BREAK DOWN!

They're just reporting on it!

I dont know what your problem is with them, but get over it.  They aren't "throwing darts"  they arent "guessing."

Quit making yourself sound stupid by bashing them when you should be bashing the NFL.
Okay, let me first just say that I understand where you are coming from, because they have "predicted" several stories before they came out, so I understand what you believe and why you believe it.Consider the flip side to this. Say you are PFT. You have absolutely no knowledge of what's going on. But you say, "well it's getting close to March 3rd, and we know there's going to be some big news on the labor talks, either they'll agree or not. Let's break the news a few days early, and we'll say they agreed, and are just working out the final kinks."

You have a full-proof cover, regardless of whether it's true or not. It's simple logic to leave yourself an out like that. On the one hand, the labor talks work and everyone points to this website and goes "LOOK WHAT A BUNCH OF GENIUSES THEY ARE THEY HAVE ALL THE INSIDER INFORMATION EVER." On the other hand, say they go south, and we still point to them and go "LOOK WHAT A BUNCH OF GENIUSES THEY ARE THEY SAID THE LABOR AGREEMENTS WOULD BREAK BECAUSE OF THIS LAST HURDLE."

There's not a shred of truth in anything they say beyond speculation that ends up being right or wrong.

On the other hand, say I reported that the labor talks broke down, and that there was a very small chance anything happens, but that there was still a chance that something could get done before FA starts.

Everyone would point to me today saying "LOOK WHAT A GENIUS MLBRANDOW IS HE TOLD US A WEEK AGO THE LABOR TALKS WOULD BREAK DOWN."

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=226697

Yet I used no insider source to deduce this. All I have to do is say "a league source" and you'd believe me if I ended up being right.

My point is that these guys are just good at doing it. They fabricate everything on their website and make a lot of gutsy assumptions based on rumors without any actual league substantiation (I'd bet you my house they don't have a list of insider sources better than any of ESPN's beat writers or even close, and I'm almost venturous enough to say they don't even have any league sources).

So, show me a story they've broken before it came out, and I will show you how they used simple Miss Cleo logic to fool you coming back by thinking they knew it beforehand.

Consider this a challenge. I openly challenge any of their beat writers to a debate on football, and I guarantee you I would be more right than they are after this offseason has concluded, and if we polled the footballguys.com audience when we finished, I'd win almost unanimously. These guys are ####### idiots that just make #### up and sometimes are right. It takes little skill and even less "insider" knowledge.

Sorry for the :hijacked: , but I just had to get this off my head.... it bothers me that people believe obviously fallacious websites, and to no fault of their own, because these places are egregiously exploiting the more impressionable people of this world, and the information on the internet needs to be taken with much more scrutiny.

 
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They are basicly down to the one issue as stated by PFT. If they could agree on that, we'd have a new CBA. Problem is that its a major issue, not a minor one. The difference between total gross income and parts of gross income is money that is and can be gained using loopholes. You think owners are going to give up that easily? You think the union is going to accept a deal with such loopholes?

The grandstanding close to the deadline is expected. It neither means a deal will or wont happen. It just means each side is pushing as hard as they can. That's because we are talking about a lot of money.

 
No need to panic. These are just negotiating tactics and I have a feeling they'll have a deal done very soon, probably not quick enough to not screw up the first week of FA though.

 
Consider the flip side to this. Say you are PFT. You have absolutely no knowledge of what's going on. But you say, "well it's getting close to March 3rd, and we know there's going to be some big news on the labor talks, either they'll agree or not. Let's break the news a few days early, and we'll say they agreed, and are just working out the final kinks."
Heres where it breaks down ML.Mike Florio used to work for ESPN Insider, and has a huge network of contacts throughout the NFL. You may think they are "making stuff up" but hes a solid reputable writer who has his ear to the ground in the NFL.

Now are his sources always right? Of course not. But he's not just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. Sometimes he does speculate, but this is ALWAYS labeled as such, and they never report rumor as fact. Where the problem stems from is the readers who read what they write and take to heart what is labled as a "rumor".

PFT is an excellent news site, and IMO the best football reading on the web. You just have to understand what it is you are reading.

 
No need to panic. These are just negotiating tactics and I have a feeling they'll have a deal done very soon, probably not quick enough to not screw up the first week of FA though.
If they dont have the deal done by the the start of FA, there is no going back.
 
Teams with lower revenues -- mostly small-market clubs -- say that if the contributions to the players' fund are equally apportioned among 32 franchises, they will have to pay a substantially larger proportion of their nontelevision and ticket money because they have less. Owners of high-revenue teams, like Dallas' Jerry Jones, claim spreading the load equally would force some teams to work harder to generate new sources of money.
So should we start beating up the small market owners for holding this up? It doesn't sound like they are saying, "We will lose money" or "We won't have the money." It sounds more like, "We will still be able to spend up to the cap, however I will have less money to spend on myself than I am use too. Like my four plush vacations a year."
 
Consider the flip side to this. Say you are PFT. You have absolutely no knowledge of what's going on. But you say, "well it's getting close to March 3rd, and we know there's going to be some big news on the labor talks, either they'll agree or not. Let's break the news a few days early, and we'll say they agreed, and are just working out the final kinks."
Heres where it breaks down ML.Mike Florio used to work for ESPN Insider, and has a huge network of contacts throughout the NFL. You may think they are "making stuff up" but hes a solid reputable writer who has his ear to the ground in the NFL.

Now are his sources always right? Of course not. But he's not just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. Sometimes he does speculate, but this is ALWAYS labeled as such, and they never report rumor as fact. Where the problem stems from is the readers who read what they write and take to heart what is labled as a "rumor".

PFT is an excellent news site, and IMO the best football reading on the web. You just have to understand what it is you are reading.
Not insinuating anything, but why does he no longer work for ESPN, and when did they part ways? Why would he go from ESPN Insider to tabloid huffy snuffy website operator?I suppose we'll agree to disagree.

 
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As for this, I swear the NFL will crumble in the next few years if they do not reach a labor agreement VERY SOON.Because I know I am not alone when I say that I'll quit watching football if there is no salary cap.  The NFL was certainly successful before the Salary Cap, but it was not even close to the powerhouse it's become today.  I'm not going to support greedy owners.
I'm with you, brother.If the sides can't agree and my Sunday Ticket doubles, they can kiss my :football: I'll be as done with them as I am whith baseball, where there are 10 or 12 big league teams and the rest AA and AAA teams.
 
As for this, I swear the NFL will crumble in the next few years if they do not reach a labor agreement VERY SOON.

Because I know I am not alone when I say that I'll quit watching football if there is no salary cap. The NFL was certainly successful before the Salary Cap, but it was not even close to the powerhouse it's become today. I'm not going to support greedy owners.
I'm with you, brother.If the sides can't agree and my Sunday Ticket doubles, they can kiss my :football:

I'll be as done with them as I am whith baseball, where there are 10 or 12 big league teams and the rest AA and AAA teams.
Very well put. If the NFL owners dont stop being greedy #####, football might be over as we all know it. I love this sport and would hate to see some greedy idiots take control of the league.
 
Consider the flip side to this. Say you are PFT. You have absolutely no knowledge of what's going on. But you say, "well it's getting close to March 3rd, and we know there's going to be some big news on the labor talks, either they'll agree or not. Let's break the news a few days early, and we'll say they agreed, and are just working out the final kinks."
Heres where it breaks down ML.Mike Florio used to work for ESPN Insider, and has a huge network of contacts throughout the NFL. You may think they are "making stuff up" but hes a solid reputable writer who has his ear to the ground in the NFL.

Now are his sources always right? Of course not. But he's not just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. Sometimes he does speculate, but this is ALWAYS labeled as such, and they never report rumor as fact. Where the problem stems from is the readers who read what they write and take to heart what is labled as a "rumor".

PFT is an excellent news site, and IMO the best football reading on the web. You just have to understand what it is you are reading.
Not insinuating anything, but why does he no longer work for ESPN, and when did they part ways? Why would he go from ESPN Insider to tabloid huffy snuffy website operator?I suppose we'll agree to disagree.
He left on his own to start PFT. He gets to write about the news that doesnt get discussed in mainstream media...Id guess thats his motivation.You're perfectly welcome to your opinion, but just realize that siding with me are Dan Patrick, Peter King, and Rotoworld.com, while siding with you are Jason Wood and Construx Boy.

 
Consider the flip side to this. Say you are PFT. You have absolutely no knowledge of what's going on. But you say, "well it's getting close to March 3rd, and we know there's going to be some big news on the labor talks, either they'll agree or not. Let's break the news a few days early, and we'll say they agreed, and are just working out the final kinks."
Heres where it breaks down ML.Mike Florio used to work for ESPN Insider, and has a huge network of contacts throughout the NFL. You may think they are "making stuff up" but hes a solid reputable writer who has his ear to the ground in the NFL.

Now are his sources always right? Of course not. But he's not just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. Sometimes he does speculate, but this is ALWAYS labeled as such, and they never report rumor as fact. Where the problem stems from is the readers who read what they write and take to heart what is labled as a "rumor".

PFT is an excellent news site, and IMO the best football reading on the web. You just have to understand what it is you are reading.
Not insinuating anything, but why does he no longer work for ESPN, and when did they part ways? Why would he go from ESPN Insider to tabloid huffy snuffy website operator?I suppose we'll agree to disagree.
He left on his own to start PFT. He gets to write about the news that doesnt get discussed in mainstream media...Id guess thats his motivation.You're perfectly welcome to your opinion, but just realize that siding with me are Dan Patrick, Peter King, and Rotoworld.com, while siding with you are Jason Wood and Construx Boy.
To be fair, lots of people love PFT and lots of people don't. Pretty much like this site or any other.Let's please drop the PFT bash / love and get back to the CBA news. Thanks.

J

 
Consider the flip side to this. Say you are PFT. You have absolutely no knowledge of what's going on. But you say, "well it's getting close to March 3rd, and we know there's going to be some big news on the labor talks, either they'll agree or not. Let's break the news a few days early, and we'll say they agreed, and are just working out the final kinks."
Heres where it breaks down ML.Mike Florio used to work for ESPN Insider, and has a huge network of contacts throughout the NFL. You may think they are "making stuff up" but hes a solid reputable writer who has his ear to the ground in the NFL.

Now are his sources always right? Of course not. But he's not just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. Sometimes he does speculate, but this is ALWAYS labeled as such, and they never report rumor as fact. Where the problem stems from is the readers who read what they write and take to heart what is labled as a "rumor".

PFT is an excellent news site, and IMO the best football reading on the web. You just have to understand what it is you are reading.
Not insinuating anything, but why does he no longer work for ESPN, and when did they part ways? Why would he go from ESPN Insider to tabloid huffy snuffy website operator?I suppose we'll agree to disagree.
He left on his own to start PFT. He gets to write about the news that doesnt get discussed in mainstream media...Id guess thats his motivation.You're perfectly welcome to your opinion, but just realize that siding with me are Dan Patrick, Peter King, and Rotoworld.com, while siding with you are Jason Wood and Construx Boy.
Hey Diesel,First of all, I'll ask you the same question I asked last week...are you in any way, shape or form involved with PFT?

Second, not sure what point you're trying to make but I've never seen Peter King or Dan Patrick praise Mike Florio. They're handed bits of news by their segment producers and discuss it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a feeling I'm not.

Third, relative to the Rotoworld...I'm not sure if you realize this but Footballguys is as large [in the non-football season] and larger [during the football season] than Rotoworld despite our focus on one sport...

Rotoworld vs. Footballguys

Fourth, I would contend that the majority [if not the vast majority] of people on this board are less-than-enthusiastic about PFT. I don't dismiss the notion that they get some decent stories going, but they tarnish nearly every story with over-the-top commentary. And I know for a FACT that a great many of the staff share my distaste for PFT's brand of "journalism."

Fifth, I don't know the circumstances of Florio's having worked for ESPN Insider but I have to wonder whether his decision was a sound one...presumably he's doing this to either broaden his reach or make a better living, yet he seems to be stuck in neutral from the look of things...

PFT Page Views

...in fact, I think it's pretty amazing that I get to be a part of this site, reach a larger audience on a consistent basis, and yet this isn't how I make my living. Maybe Florio should send us a resume :unsure:

 
Consider the flip side to this. Say you are PFT. You have absolutely no knowledge of what's going on. But you say, "well it's getting close to March 3rd, and we know there's going to be some big news on the labor talks, either they'll agree or not. Let's break the news a few days early, and we'll say they agreed, and are just working out the final kinks."
Heres where it breaks down ML.Mike Florio used to work for ESPN Insider, and has a huge network of contacts throughout the NFL. You may think they are "making stuff up" but hes a solid reputable writer who has his ear to the ground in the NFL.

Now are his sources always right? Of course not. But he's not just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. Sometimes he does speculate, but this is ALWAYS labeled as such, and they never report rumor as fact. Where the problem stems from is the readers who read what they write and take to heart what is labled as a "rumor".

PFT is an excellent news site, and IMO the best football reading on the web. You just have to understand what it is you are reading.
Not insinuating anything, but why does he no longer work for ESPN, and when did they part ways? Why would he go from ESPN Insider to tabloid huffy snuffy website operator?I suppose we'll agree to disagree.
come on MLB, you are a smart guy... would this be the first time in the history of the world where somebody left a bigger company to start their own... maybe PFT isn't as big as ESPN, but he gets to be his own boss... & they have grown considerably in terms of profile... i have heard mike florio on the radio in LA, i think on the syndicated sporting news radio feed...i don't know if they broke the VY getting a 6 on wonderlic story, but that is first i recall seeing it... why would dan patrick & peter king, who are themselves obviously be well connected, endorse the site (which might be construed as a competitor)... if they were just either... A) making stuff up, or B) reporting stale news?

yes they can be controversial at times, & even mean-spirited (pasta-belly, etc), but imo he has a pretty funny writing style... i can understand how it might be difficult to find the humor in a site that you seem to hold some hostility towards...

i do think you are off the mark if you really think they have never cultivated ANY league insider assetts (as far as players, agents, scouts, lower level FO types)... i mean, it can't be THAT hard to cultivate a network of resources if you were connected before (he was) & maintained & maybe even expanded that network & web of resources...

if part of what you find disturbing about them is underpinned by an idea (they have no contacts & this is 100% pure fabrication) that is itself wrong... rethinking that like misguided presupposition might lead to rethinking other issues you have with them that flow from that...

BTW, no disrespect, i like your contributions here, but i think you are off here if you think they have zero contacts & connections in the NFL...

* oops, sorry joe, i wrote & posted this before i saw your most recent post, otherwise i wouldn't have...

 
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Consider the flip side to this. Say you are PFT. You have absolutely no knowledge of what's going on. But you say, "well it's getting close to March 3rd, and we know there's going to be some big news on the labor talks, either they'll agree or not. Let's break the news a few days early, and we'll say they agreed, and are just working out the final kinks."
Heres where it breaks down ML.Mike Florio used to work for ESPN Insider, and has a huge network of contacts throughout the NFL. You may think they are "making stuff up" but hes a solid reputable writer who has his ear to the ground in the NFL.

Now are his sources always right? Of course not. But he's not just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. Sometimes he does speculate, but this is ALWAYS labeled as such, and they never report rumor as fact. Where the problem stems from is the readers who read what they write and take to heart what is labled as a "rumor".

PFT is an excellent news site, and IMO the best football reading on the web. You just have to understand what it is you are reading.
Not insinuating anything, but why does he no longer work for ESPN, and when did they part ways? Why would he go from ESPN Insider to tabloid huffy snuffy website operator?I suppose we'll agree to disagree.
He left on his own to start PFT. He gets to write about the news that doesnt get discussed in mainstream media...Id guess thats his motivation.You're perfectly welcome to your opinion, but just realize that siding with me are Dan Patrick, Peter King, and Rotoworld.com, while siding with you are Jason Wood and Construx Boy.
Hey Diesel,First of all, I'll ask you the same question I asked last week...are you in any way, shape or form involved with PFT?

Second, not sure what point you're trying to make but I've never seen Peter King or Dan Patrick praise Mike Florio. They're handed bits of news by their segment producers and discuss it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a feeling I'm not.

Third, relative to the Rotoworld...I'm not sure if you realize this but Footballguys is as large [in the non-football season] and larger [during the football season] than Rotoworld despite our focus on one sport...

Rotoworld vs. Footballguys

Fourth, I would contend that the majority [if not the vast majority] of people on this board are less-than-enthusiastic about PFT. I don't dismiss the notion that they get some decent stories going, but they tarnish nearly every story with over-the-top commentary. And I know for a FACT that a great many of the staff share my distaste for PFT's brand of "journalism."

Fifth, I don't know the circumstances of Florio's having worked for ESPN Insider but I have to wonder whether his decision was a sound one...presumably he's doing this to either broaden his reach or make a better living, yet he seems to be stuck in neutral from the look of things...

PFT Page Views

...in fact, I think it's pretty amazing that I get to be a part of this site, reach a larger audience on a consistent basis, and yet this isn't how I make my living. Maybe Florio should send us a resume :unsure:
Ill drop it after this, but PFT is a part time profession. Florio is also a lawyer. If you have any other questions, start a new thread or shoot me a PM.

 
No need to panic.  These are just negotiating tactics and I have a feeling they'll have a deal done very soon, probably not quick enough to not screw up the first week of FA though.
If they dont have the deal done by the the start of FA, there is no going back.
That's the million dollar question right there, what happens if there is no agreement by 12:01 Friday and teams have to start cutting people to get under the cap? Is there any chance that an agreement would be reached after that date? Would the NFLPA be willing to risk one year of bad free agency to get rid of the cap? Would the owners be willing to play their hand of a tight 2006 and hope to reach an agreement before the uncapped year and potentially losing the college draft in '08?What if the dire predictions of Adam Shefter at nfl.com are right and the Redskins have to ax 14 players in order to get under 95 Mil? Imagine the mad scramble if a new CBA is signed a few weeks later and gives teams an extra 10 Mil to sign players.

 
No need to panic.  These are just negotiating tactics and I have a feeling they'll have a deal done very soon, probably not quick enough to not screw up the first week of FA though.
If they dont have the deal done by the the start of FA, there is no going back.
That's the million dollar question right there, what happens if there is no agreement by 12:01 Friday and teams have to start cutting people to get under the cap? Is there any chance that an agreement would be reached after that date? Would the NFLPA be willing to risk one year of bad free agency to get rid of the cap? Would the owners be willing to play their hand of a tight 2006 and hope to reach an agreement before the uncapped year and potentially losing the college draft in '08?What if the dire predictions of Adam Shefter at nfl.com are right and the Redskins have to ax 14 players in order to get under 95 Mil? Imagine the mad scramble if a new CBA is signed a few weeks later and gives teams an extra 10 Mil to sign players.
Exactly. If the deal isnt reached in the next day or two, the NFL is going to be a mess, and it will be near impossible to fix.
 
No need to panic.  These are just negotiating tactics and I have a feeling they'll have a deal done very soon, probably not quick enough to not screw up the first week of FA though.
If they dont have the deal done by the the start of FA, there is no going back.
That's the million dollar question right there, what happens if there is no agreement by 12:01 Friday and teams have to start cutting people to get under the cap? Is there any chance that an agreement would be reached after that date? Would the NFLPA be willing to risk one year of bad free agency to get rid of the cap? Would the owners be willing to play their hand of a tight 2006 and hope to reach an agreement before the uncapped year and potentially losing the college draft in '08?What if the dire predictions of Adam Shefter at nfl.com are right and the Redskins have to ax 14 players in order to get under 95 Mil? Imagine the mad scramble if a new CBA is signed a few weeks later and gives teams an extra 10 Mil to sign players.
Exactly. If the deal isnt reached in the next day or two, the NFL is going to be a mess, and it will be near impossible to fix.
Yeah, computing the cap hits for these "forced cuts" if an extension is reached after the fact could be nasty. I can imagine teams complaining they should be allowed to use the June 1 rule since they wouldn't have cut the person this year if the CBA had been extended in time.
 
Consider the flip side to this. Say you are PFT. You have absolutely no knowledge of what's going on. But you say, "well it's getting close to March 3rd, and we know there's going to be some big news on the labor talks, either they'll agree or not. Let's break the news a few days early, and we'll say they agreed, and are just working out the final kinks."
Heres where it breaks down ML.Mike Florio used to work for ESPN Insider, and has a huge network of contacts throughout the NFL. You may think they are "making stuff up" but hes a solid reputable writer who has his ear to the ground in the NFL.

Now are his sources always right? Of course not. But he's not just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. Sometimes he does speculate, but this is ALWAYS labeled as such, and they never report rumor as fact. Where the problem stems from is the readers who read what they write and take to heart what is labled as a "rumor".

PFT is an excellent news site, and IMO the best football reading on the web. You just have to understand what it is you are reading.
Not insinuating anything, but why does he no longer work for ESPN, and when did they part ways? Why would he go from ESPN Insider to tabloid huffy snuffy website operator?I suppose we'll agree to disagree.
He left on his own to start PFT. He gets to write about the news that doesnt get discussed in mainstream media...Id guess thats his motivation.You're perfectly welcome to your opinion, but just realize that siding with me are Dan Patrick, Peter King, and Rotoworld.com, while siding with you are Jason Wood and Construx Boy.
"I've made it big, Ma!!!" :P

 
See, this is why Pro Football Talk is a bull#### website that shouldn't have any place around here.
Interesting rant you went on that has little to do with the topic.
A league source tells us that a deal between the NFL and the NFL Players Association on an extension to the Collective Bargaining Agreement is "done," and that the only thing keeping the thing from being signed and sealed is the absence of a firm arrangement among owners regarding an expansion of revenue sharing.
Are you claiming you know for fact that no sources told PFT that this was the case? That is a ludicrous statement.I do like PFT for the info. The one caveat I have always claimed, "Read the articles carefully." They explicitly state when it is rumor, fact, and opinion. And if you cannot tell the difference between them, then you really shouldn't read it.

 
"Third, relative to the Rotoworld...I'm not sure if you realize this but Footballguys is as large [in the non-football season] and larger [during the football season] than Rotoworld despite our focus on one sport..."

When you compare sites using alexa and saying who is bigger etc - the only numbers that matters are reach - thats what you hear when people compare espn.com versus foxsports.com or anything else. In the newspapers or SBJ.

Having said that FBG has certainly created a great niche and is growing by the day...

 
Interesting stuff from Pasquarelli:

The lack of an extension, indeed, means a lot for both sides. And not just the composition of rosters.

For instance, players will now need six accrued seasons, not four, to qualify for unrestricted free agent status. So a standout young player such as Chicago Bears three-year veteran linebacker Lance Briggs, who is coming off a Pro Bowl season and whose contract expires after the 2006 season, would have to wait two additional seasons before being unrestricted. The league would also, in an uncapped year, quit funding 401(k) plans (it currently matches player investments on a 2-1 basis) and most other fringe benefits, meaning players would be responsible for those things.

And there would be difficulties, even for the most innovative teams and creative player agents, in meeting financial expectations on most contracts. Players in free agency and high-round draft picks will have trouble approximating the fat deals of the past, and player agents face problems in trying to explain why expectations might have to be lowered.

As of Tuesday, there were a dozen teams in the league with more than $10 million apiece in 2006 salary cap room. It seems logical that those teams, which include four franchises with more than $20 million each in cap space, would benefit from the problems of cap-strapped clubs, especially if the free agent rolls are swelled Thursday with the anticipated cap casualties. But because of the quirks of the pending "uncapped" year in 2007, even those teams will have to move with great caution in crafting contracts.

One player agent suggested that it will be a "nuclear winter" at the outset of free agency, with few teams jumping out and completing early deals because of the uncharted landscape in which the NFL will be operating.

Some other lesser known implications: Without an extension to the CBA, teams will be able to amortize signing bonuses over just four seasons, instead of the maximum seven years. Because of the 30-percent rule, which essentially stipulates that a player's basic compensation (his base salary plus the prorated share of his signing bonus for 2006) cannot be increased by more than 30 percent, teams can't make up the difference in smaller signing bonus with fatter base salaries.

But perhaps the biggest problem is that so-called "not likely to be earned incentives" (NLTBE) will count immediately against the cap. In normal circumstances, NLTBE incentives count on the following year's spending limit. So NLTBEs earned in 2005, for instance, count against a team's 2006 cap. But with an uncapped year looming in 2007, such incentives and bonuses that are triggered in 2006 would immediately apply.
 
Will this be the end of the NFL? No is the obvious answer. This is a very important fact to remember: THE NFL HAS EXISTED WITH A SALARY CAP FOR ONLY 12 (GOING ON 13) YEARS.

The NFL obviously persisted without a salary cap the rest of its history.

Additionally, as BlueOnion said, this would mean that the owners of the less-competetive markets would just have to make a lot less in profit (but still make lots of money).

Regardless, this will be bad for fantasy football as it means only a handfull of teams will have players worth drafting for the most part as the rest will have scrubs.

I think both sides are greedy. But if I was the Owners I would say this to the Player's Association: Fine, we will give you 60% of the total revenues as you have asked, but it will NEVER increase beyond that. That would test who is really sincere about this whole deal.

 
Will this be the end of the NFL? No is the obvious answer. This is a very important fact to remember: THE NFL HAS EXISTED WITH A SALARY CAP FOR ONLY 12 (GOING ON 13) YEARS.

The NFL obviously persisted without a salary cap the rest of its history.
But the rest of the NFL's history did not involve the current Free Agency setup, so the comparison is not entirely valid.
 
Will this be the end of the NFL?  No is the obvious answer.  This is a very important fact to remember: THE NFL HAS EXISTED WITH A SALARY CAP FOR ONLY 12 (GOING ON 13) YEARS. 

The NFL obviously persisted without a salary cap the rest of its history. 
But the rest of the NFL's history did not involve the current Free Agency setup, so the comparison is not entirely valid.
that is QUITE interestingI wonder what it would take for the owners to axe free agency altogether and go back to the old ways. How could they make it still "a market" that players feel they're pushing the limits of salaries and are thus still happy with their high pay?

 
I'm depressed. I hate it when teams who can spend more succeed based solely on that fact. I much prefer success to be predicated upon sharp front office decision making, quality draft and personnel decisions, great coaching, excellent execution by the players and team chemistry.

 
that is QUITE interesting

I wonder what it would take for the owners to axe free agency altogether and go back to the old ways. How could they make it still "a market" that players feel they're pushing the limits of salaries and are thus still happy with their high pay?
Free agency will never go away because it is the owners' concession to not being sued for anti-trust violations. If the owners axed FA the NFLPA would decertify and we would have a huge anti-trust suit on our hands ala Freeman McNeil ... the rookie draft would likely be eliminated, as might any salary cap ...Cut and paste:

The 1987 strike and decertification

The NFLPA struck for a month in 1987. On this occasion, however, the league chose to present games with replacement players, mostly those who had been cut in preseason, and a few veterans who crossed the picket lines. The television networks showcased these games as if these hastily assemble teams were the same quality as the veterans who were out on strike. Faced with cracks in its members' support and the willingness of the networks to broadcast the games, the union voted to go back to work on October 15, 1987. It filed a new antitrust suit that same day.

The Court of Appeals ultimately rejected that suit on the ground that the labor exemption from antitrust liability protected the employers, even though the union was no longer party to a collective bargaining agreement that would have permitted the practices that the union was challenging. In response, the union formally disclaimed any interest in representing NFL players in collective bargaining and reformed itself as a professional organization in 1989. Having done that, the following year union members, led by Freeman McNeil of the New York Jets, brought a new antitrust action against the NFL challenging its free agency rules as an unlawful restraint of trade.

The players ultimately prevailed, after a jury trial on their claims, in that action. That verdict, the pendency of other antitrust cases and the threat of a class action filed by Reggie White, then with the Philadelphia Eagles, on behalf of all NFL players brought the parties back to the negotiating table. They finally agreed on a formula that permitted free agency in return for salary caps tied to a formula based on players' share of total league revenues.

 
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I'm depressed. I hate it when teams who can spend more succeed based solely on that fact. I much prefer success to be predicated upon sharp front office decision making, quality draft and personnel decisions, great coaching, excellent execution by the players and team chemistry.
As we've seen in baseball, spending $$ does not always equal success on the field.What it does mean is that the richer teams can afford to take more chances. It can also help buy depth.

 
I think that there is a lot of alarmist thinking going on. Even if there is no salary cap, there will still be roster size limits. So the idea that there will be several "super teams" and other teams with no stars is crazy. No team, is going to have six QBs and pay them each $10 million. Why would QBs 2-6 agree to sign with this team? Would they do it JUST to cash in?

 
I think that there is a lot of alarmist thinking going on. Even if there is no salary cap, there will still be roster size limits. So the idea that there will be several "super teams" and other teams with no stars is crazy. No team, is going to have six QBs and pay them each $10 million. Why would QBs 2-6 agree to sign with this team? Would they do it JUST to cash in?
Ed Debartolo Jr would be the happiest camper of them all in this scenario. But since his 49ers won 5 Super Bowls this way and he has since been banished from the league, one would have to assume that the Snyder/Jones types will be glad to take his role.Why did Deion go to the 49ers?

Why did so many guys go to the 49ers for one yr deals?

They wanted a ring, got it and left.

They did it in Florida with the Marlins in baseball, they will do it in football.

Tom

 

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