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Uh he already caught the ball. They watched the wrong tape. I saw nothing but shoulder as the intial contact and then classical mechanics became involved, which may have leg to the back/side portion of Robinsons mask to make contact with Jacksons side of helmet/facemask. So Robinson is getting fined because of Newtons 2nd law? lolbenm3218 said:
This is what I am talking about. If the league can't see the difference, how do you think the refs, whom already are doing a poor job this year, are going to see things on the field now.Hang 10 said:Unreal that the NFL shows no distinction between Merriwheather's and Robinson's hits.I mean, those two hits could basically be your examples between a dirty (merriwheather) & a clean hard hit (robinson). Oh, but 150lb Jackson got hurt and 250lb Todd Heap didn't. Ridiculous.
100% agreed. There is a clear difference in both the deliberateness and mechanism by which contact is initiated.This is what I am talking about. If the league can't see the difference, how do you think the refs, whom already are doing a poor job this year, are going to see things on the field now.Hang 10 said:Unreal that the NFL shows no distinction between Merriwheather's and Robinson's hits.I mean, those two hits could basically be your examples between a dirty (merriwheather) & a clean hard hit (robinson). Oh, but 150lb Jackson got hurt and 250lb Todd Heap didn't. Ridiculous.
Lewis, like Harrison, has been fined by the league multiple times for excessive hits. Look on youtube if you want to see some dirty shots made by Ray Lewis. Lewis and Harrison are of the same ilk, they are both tough players who love to intimidate with violent hits. If you don't like the play of one it is tough to praise the other because they do the same thing.Comer said:
Agreed though part of me thinks this has as much to do with the proposal to go to 18 regular season games. One of the arguments against expanding the schedule is that players will not be able to physically take that much punishment. So the league implements a tough policy against hard hits and now they can say they have taken steps to reduce injuries and improve safety.Bojang0301 said:
The NFL as an organization is hypocritical and has been for a long time. Doesn't surprise me in the least.There is helmet-to-helmet contact between lineman on every single play and it has been proven that over time it damages the brain as much or more than one or two whacks to the head. The NFL does nothing about it because the media isn't screaming about it and no one cares about lineman.
He's just blowing off steam but he has apoint. If you're going to be fined $75,000 and threatened with suspension by a league that can't define what constitutes a legal and illegal hit then it is going to be tough to play effectively.
Not lead with the helmet and play dirty like thugs like Harrison often do. Harrison can piss and moan all he wants, but it is possible to play physical and play tough without being a dirty player. Don't lead with the freaking helmet!
Robinson didn't lead with his helmet though, he hit him ridiculously hard with his shoulder. Is he supposed to go half speed, catch him in the air? What?
I'm sure it's also the onus of the defender to ensure that the offensive player doesn't change their level and actually initiate the helmet to helmet contact too.
Robinson absolutely led with his helmet. His shoulder hit first, but if his head was up, the hit wouldn't have been nearly as dangerous.
Dunta Robinson's hit on Jackson and James Harrison's hit on Massaquoi both violated the same rule:h) If a receiver has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself, a defensive player is prohibited from launching (springing forward and upward) into him in a way that causes the defensive player's helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm to forcibly strike the receiver's head or neck area -- even if the initial contact of the defender's helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm is lower than the receiver's neck.
The other 99.99 percent of the league who did not get fined this past weekend apparently doesn't see the need to retire because they can play within the scope of those same "unclear and murky" rules on hitting.He's just blowing off steam but he has apoint. If you're going to be fined $75,000 and threatened with suspension by a league that can't define what constitutes a legal and illegal hit then it is going to be tough to play effectively.
You obviously have not seen the video they've been showing at least 1,000x and counting.
What a freaking joke. Yeah, OK, James. Go retire and leave this cash cow behind because you "don't know how to tackle". JFC.This guy seriously needs a lineman to take a run at his legs. If the Browns had any balls, they would've done that after the SECOND player Harrison took out.
I not only have seen the video, I have broken it down in this very thread how Robinson was in good tackling position, and lowered his head towards Jackson to initiate the contact.
This is a pretty clear definition for the crowd that keeps saying "what is a defensive player suppose to do."A lot of people in this thread and talking heads/former defensive players are making a big stink out of this but it's really not that comlicated. Defenders can essentially do one of three things:
So that deserved a 50k fine and will be subjected to suspension...what a crock. If the league can't tell the difference between that and a legit dirty hit....i don't know what to say.There is just going to be so much of a crap storm with this "new rule".
I hate the way that rule is written... the defender really has a small target to begin with, and now players are going to potentially be suspended "even if the initial contact" was legal... that's just lame.
I just said that I never thought of Lewis as a dirty player,a tool maybe,but not a dirty player. Harrison has a rep and his past actions count against him when it comes to the benefit of doubt.
Not really. I don't think defenders should be responsible for what happens after the intial contact.... how can they be expected to control what happens after two players collide considering how fast they are moving? Also, there appears to be no potential for review to see if the offensive player ducked, or changed his pad level, or however you want to define it.I think it's too tall a task to ask defenders to "never" make contact with an opposing players helmet given all the variables involved in making a tackle.
That's great and all but Robinson didn't "launch" into Jackson.
I totally agree. Defenders are giant baby men who don't even know their own strength, a bunch of Lenny's from Of Mice and Men. How can they be expected not to kill people when they are just doing what comes natural to them? This is unfair.
Since this "defenseless" WR rule came about every big hit gets a flag. There is not one place you can hit a guy now except his legs when he's in the process of making a catch. If you hit him with your shoulder in his torso it's a flag. If you execute a proper form tackle with your facemask square in his numbers, wrap, and carry it through to the turf it's a flag. Any time you blow a guy up if he doesn't have the ball secure and has made a football move it's flag. Did you see the hit Jim Leonard put on Brandon Lloyd? He didn't get a fine but he sure did get 15 yards on a perfectly executed tackle breaking up a pass. I think the suits involved will not be satisfied until we have a replica of the Pro Bowl during regular season games.
After you're involved in a car accident do you have total control over what your body does after impact?
You are either fishing, or you have taken too many shots to the head and have a vested interest in this topic.
This is simply not true. Not even close. There are plenty of big hits where guys don't get flags. The Ray Lewis hit on Keller that I keep bringing up is one clear example. I also can't remember any "form tackle with the facemask square in the NUMBERS that drew a flag." The only time I see that called is when its on a QB and he's driven to the turf.I'll give you that some of the flags that are thrown on big hits are questionable, just like any subjective call. But to say that about every big hit gets a flag is simply inaccurate.
He didn't lower his head, he lowered his whole body
Jackson hadn't completed the catch. That's the point. Robinson's hit caused Jackson to drop the ball before he completed the catch.
Nahh, I think Scotty's has been holding a grudge since 1975.
Kick rocks, James
It happens more times than not these days which is what I'm getting at. It's a huge gray area and it takes away from how the game is played.Here's an example of your perfect form tackle with a flag this past weekend, even Josh McDaniel disagreed with the call:
Harrison is a imbecile , let him reitre it will be good for the game ...
They'll go through a Two-Hand-Touch for Quarterbacks phase first. That rule goes in if Peyton or Brady (again) go on IR for most of a season after a hit.
Are some people in agreement with the NFL that "all" helment-to-helment contact should be flagged and/or fined and/or suspended... regardless of where initial contact was made?
100% agreed.That said I feel strongly that the offensive players actions absolutely need to be factored into analyzing these hits retrospectively for the purpose of determining punishments.
i see this not being good for the league. theres such a grey area here.i mean is a linebacker spose to hold up on a hit that might separate a receiver from the ball? maybe QB's should be fined setting up receivers to get killed over the middle.football is violent. big hits are part of the game. yea, there are some hits that are blatantly not right, Suh's body slam comes to mind. but a hard tackle or a blindside block, thats part of the game. i see this going the route of anytime a player is hurt, or kinda knocked silly, there will be fines and/or suspensions whether or not theres should be. P U S S I F I C A T I O N O F F O O T B A L L!
