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Run the ball out of field goal range (in case there is a turnover on the "Victory formation" kneel downs) and then fall down.
He's at the Cowboys 20, so it's a 90 yard FG from the spot... If he scores the TD, Packers go up 28-20 and the Cowboys get the ball back with 1:10 needing a TD and 2 to force OT. If he falls down, they win. Fall down.
Sitting here analyzing all of the scenarios, sure you fall down or run out of bounds. If you were Al Harris in that situation, you're DB instincts will tell you to try and score the TD with the runback. If its open field, he goes for the endzone. If he's in the middle of the field and is about to get tackled, he should slide down (to avoid fumble). If he's along the sideline and about to get tackled, he should step out of bounds. I think those 3 scenarios are fair split second/smart ecisions that a DB could actually make in a game situation.
Would the Packers not kick the XP and go up by two scores?
Would the Packers not kick the XP and go up by two scores?
Packers are up 21-20. TD+XP makes it 28-20. That's one score--Cowboys make a hail mary and score the conversion to tie and force OT.The only way the Packers can lose after making the INT in this scenario is if they give the Cowboys the ball back with time on the clock, either by fumbling the INT return or just scoring the TD and having to kick it to them. Falling down or running out of bounds sets up victory formation.
Exactly. On the other hand, if you're on the Cowboys, you should grab Harris and carry him into the endzone. It's the classic Madden play of allowing the other team to score so you can get the ball back with enough time left on the clock.
Which is why coaches need to drill this into their players. Don't go for an INT on 4th down :chargersbag: Keep your head in the game and think about where you are before the play starts, and what you'll do in whatever situation comes up. Sometimes the best way to win isn't to score, but to prevent the other team from having the opportunity to score.
I've been trying to think of the difference between "run out of bounds" and "fall on it". If you fall on it, they can't wrestle it from you--as soon as you're touched the play ends. And the clock runs more. And there's no chance of fumbling the two steps it takes to get there, and there's no chance a booth review can happen on whether Harris had control before he stepped out, got two feet in, whatever. Keeping the whole body in bounds and on the ground seems the best decision.
The two answers are "fall on it" which is right 99% of the time, or run the ball some and then fall down.Your original post says he has a clear shot at the end zone. That to me means he can run 20-30 yards and then fall down.My original answer of "run some then fall down, just so you are out of FG range" - I'll still stick with that.Either way, the DB does need to be informed and intelligent enough to know to fall down and not score.If he does run with the ball, it better be with two hands on it and right on the sideline so virtually any fumble goes out of bounds.On a separate thought, if the offense was up by a point, the defense should be letting the offense score so they can get the ball back.The 2 point conversion has added a lot more strategy to the end game of these contests.
There is little difference between the two scenarios. However running out of bounds is foolproof. If you fall to the ground, there is a chance at least you could fumble when you hit the ground. Scoring the TD is selfish and stupid. I have never seen a team fumble from the kneel down scenario. I have seen teams scores TDs and get two point conversions with only 1:00 left. The funny thing is, the score is irrelevant. If you are up by 20, its the classy thing to do. If you are up by 7, teams could still score 14 points in one minute. I only chose that score, because if I had said up by 7, score the TD would have won in a landslide. Saying in the heat of the moment its tough to make the right decision is a copout. Its always heat of the moment. Point is if its the smart play, you should make it. Thats why you are paid millions.
You're right, except running from 20 yards from the Cowboys 20 is exactly what you don't want him to do. If it was the Packers 20, he could run out of FG range, but from the Cowboys 20, as I said above, it's already a 90 yard FG attempt...
Except for the reasons I mentioned above. Nothing is entirely "foolproof".
Disagree 100%. The "me, me, me" mentality is what makes it hard to figure this out. For the same reason that members of the shark pool say score the TD. People actually think scoring the TD is the right answer, and they have all day to think about it. Not heat of the moment. This is the same as being able to call a timeout when you are about to get a 5 second call in basketball, knowing to not call a timeout when you dont have any left, a QB not throwing into double coverage, knowing there are 5 seconds left in the half so you can get a shot off in basketball. These are all things that are taught. I dont think too many coaches teach their Dbacks to do this.
I think the Chargers' situation should have been more obvious. If it's 4th down and you're defending down the field in coverage - the default should be knock the ball down and not catch it. So you don't have to think about that many variables to get this one right.The original example is I think more difficult, especially if the possession hasn't just begun. Let's say the Cowboys started with the ball with 2 1/2 minutes left in the game, and, now it's down to 1 minute and 20 seconds - it's tough for a DB to know exactly how much time is left in the game and that it will be enough to just kneel. You need to bear in mind in this situation - the score, the time left in the game, the other team's lack of TO's, and those are less immediately obvious to the DB than it being 4th down and being down the field and therefore unlikely to gain better field position than the original line of scrimmage so why risk it.
I think it's rather easy in football. If the trailing team has no timeouts, if the team that's ahead achieves a first down at any point after the 2 minute warning, it's game over. That big long timeout when the clock reads "2:00" is a pretty obvious marker, and it should be drilled into everyone in the preseason what it means.
Unlike the Chargers game, here the OP says nothing about it being 4th down. I assume it's not. The rest of your post is spot-on correct.
I am speaking specifically to the example listed in the initial post.
I disagree for one simple reason. This shouldn't be a split-second decision. Its a game situation. Presnap, you determine what the right play for a given situation should be, so if it occurs, you've already made the decision, from a less chaotic point in time ( ie. the huddle ). If the right play on a 4th down pass is to knock the ball to the ground, you know that before the ball is in the air and heading for you. I gotta believe that smart players assess the game situation presnap, every snap, and know exactly what they want to do given the defense called and situation.
Me too. Batting it down doesn't force a change of possession, it gives the Cowboys another down. It doesn't say "4th down", it says "4th quarter" only.
I thought it was fourth down too. Then, intercept; take knee; wait to be downed.
Yikes. Nearly 40%.
