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Kowskull

Footballguy
I was talking to a friend of mine the other day and we got on the subject of criminal behavior in the NFL. He said that he believes criminal behavior and arrest have gone up since goodell took over. My first reaction was no, He is the guy who was protecting the shield, he would be tougher. Both of those statements i feel are true, but never the less doesn't prove if criminal behavior has gone down. I did find a site that list NFL Crimes going back to 2005 http://nflcrimes.blogspot.com/2010/01/dece...-saints-de.html But i have not had time to anaylize the data plus i would like to find more info. The Plexico Burress safety video in 2009 section is funny.......

Back to the point though do yall feel crime is up or down?

 
I believe youre right :topcat: Good catch

Still a very small sample but over 80% think things are the same or worse Interesting! keep the votes coming

 
Last edited by a moderator:
it may be increasing... but that's likely because there's more rules/stipulations that players are held accountable for these days. it will probably continue to increase because of them.

 
I think there may be the perception of that because of a number of factors including:

[*]There is a "Hollywood" effect to some extent. The players have become much more celebrity figures than ever before.

[*]I think there is a much higher bar these days on expected behavior, partially due to the above.

[*]The state of communications is such that there are zero secrets.

<oldmanvoice> Why in my day the Raiders were a second-half team because thats when the drunk would wear off and Wilt Chamberlain had 20,000 companions.</oldmanvoice>

 
The perception is that crime is greater because Goodell has decided, in his wisdom, to publicise it. It's the same as it's always been.

 
Kowskull said:
found this recent article that claims it is going down http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/ap...sioner-goodell/

Good read but left me undecided
Click to expand...
After reading this article i keep coming back to this qoute

"A COMPARISON

The NFL still is better behaved than American society:

NFL: Roughly one arrest per 47 players per year since 2000, including injured reserve lists, according to the database.

U.S. population: One arrest per 22 people per year (around 4,637 arrests per 100,000 inhabitants), according to the FBI."

BRENT SCHROTENBOER

Are they really comparing The NFL (high paid elite talent from execs down to players) with all of AMERICA Society including our Druggies,homeless,Prostitutes,thief, ect... ect...

and Saying look were still better than American Society.

Not what i would call a GOOD COMPARISON.

Now compare them to lets say some of the highest paid American Society for the sake of argument we will go with Doctors. How do those # look?

 
Information Age - the internet and mass media market are nothing like they've been before in the past. We learn more about stupid stuff that we never knew existed before. Doesn't even have to be published in an official manner anymore, IMs are considered legit news feeds.

Of course, along with everybody being a reporter now, the false information being "published" is astounding. Don't have to validate anything, just have to type it. Don't even have to spell it correctly to be considered legit.

Crimes can appear to be higher because we hear about them now and every player's personal life is under a microscope. Don't even have to be charged with a crime to be virtually executed by anonymous internet avatars.

 
Kowskull said:
Kowskull said:
found this recent article that claims it is going down http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/ap...sioner-goodell/

Good read but left me undecided
Click to expand...
After reading this article i keep coming back to this qoute

"A COMPARISON

The NFL still is better behaved than American society:

NFL: Roughly one arrest per 47 players per year since 2000, including injured reserve lists, according to the database.

U.S. population: One arrest per 22 people per year (around 4,637 arrests per 100,000 inhabitants), according to the FBI."

BRENT SCHROTENBOER

Are they really comparing The NFL (high paid elite talent from execs down to players) with all of AMERICA Society including our Druggies,homeless,Prostitutes,thief, ect... ect...

and Saying look were still better than American Society.

Not what i would call a GOOD COMPARISON.

Now compare them to lets say some of the highest paid American Society for the sake of argument we will go with Doctors. How do those # look?
Click to expand...
Aren't NFL players just people who came from AMERICA society? Aren't they the kids of rich people, poor people, druggies, homeless people, thieves, and even possibly prostitutes (</JeffIreland>)? I'd expect a higher rate of lawlessness among NFL players than among doctors simply because I'd bet the average doctor came from a much better situation. And yes, that matters.I'd say comparing NFL players to society at large is a perfectly valid comparison. Besides, I think you might be underestimating how prevalent "white collar crimes" are among the wealthy. In fact, I have a tiny little suspicion that if you controlled properly for socioeconomic background, NFL players might even come out with a lower crime rate than doctors... but I really have no evidence on that one way or another, just a tiny little suspicion.

I have a much bigger suspicion, by the way, that the average NFL player probably donates more time and money to charity than the peers in their income brackets. Something to consider when trying to paint NFL players as thugs or criminals.

 
SSOG said:
Kowskull said:
Kowskull said:
found this recent article that claims it is going down http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/ap...sioner-goodell/

Good read but left me undecided
Click to expand...
After reading this article i keep coming back to this qoute

"A COMPARISON

The NFL still is better behaved than American society:

NFL: Roughly one arrest per 47 players per year since 2000, including injured reserve lists, according to the database.

U.S. population: One arrest per 22 people per year (around 4,637 arrests per 100,000 inhabitants), according to the FBI."

BRENT SCHROTENBOER

Are they really comparing The NFL (high paid elite talent from execs down to players) with all of AMERICA Society including our Druggies,homeless,Prostitutes,thief, ect... ect...

and Saying look were still better than American Society.

Not what i would call a GOOD COMPARISON.

Now compare them to lets say some of the highest paid American Society for the sake of argument we will go with Doctors. How do those # look?
Click to expand...
Aren't NFL players just people who came from AMERICA society? Aren't they the kids of rich people, poor people, druggies, homeless people, thieves, and even possibly prostitutes (</JeffIreland>)? I'd expect a higher rate of lawlessness among NFL players than among doctors simply because I'd bet the average doctor came from a much better situation. And yes, that matters.I'd say comparing NFL players to society at large is a perfectly valid comparison. Besides, I think you might be underestimating how prevalent "white collar crimes" are among the wealthy. In fact, I have a tiny little suspicion that if you controlled properly for socioeconomic background, NFL players might even come out with a lower crime rate than doctors... but I really have no evidence on that one way or another, just a tiny little suspicion.

I have a much bigger suspicion, by the way, that the average NFL player probably donates more time and money to charity than the peers in their income brackets. Something to consider when trying to paint NFL players as thugs or criminals.
Click to expand...
Yes, NFL players are from American Society, but they CAN be compared to doctors easier then the general public because they both share post secondary edjucation. According to the Bureau of Criminal Statistics, the level of crime among a group goes down dramatically as the edjucation level increases. The same report states that 48.4% of American Society has recieved some postsecondary edjucation and that group makes up 12.7% of the prison population as of 2003. For College graduates the number goes down even more. The group makes up about 26% of the population but is 4.8% of the number of probationers. (source)So if the above article is correct that only 2% of NFL players commit crime, then they would compare even more favorably then their peers.
 
SSOG said:
Kowskull said:
Kowskull said:
found this recent article that claims it is going down http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/ap...sioner-goodell/

Good read but left me undecided
Click to expand...
After reading this article i keep coming back to this qoute

"A COMPARISON

The NFL still is better behaved than American society:

NFL: Roughly one arrest per 47 players per year since 2000, including injured reserve lists, according to the database.

U.S. population: One arrest per 22 people per year (around 4,637 arrests per 100,000 inhabitants), according to the FBI."

BRENT SCHROTENBOER

Are they really comparing The NFL (high paid elite talent from execs down to players) with all of AMERICA Society including our Druggies,homeless,Prostitutes,thief, ect... ect...

and Saying look were still better than American Society.

Not what i would call a GOOD COMPARISON.

Now compare them to lets say some of the highest paid American Society for the sake of argument we will go with Doctors. How do those # look?
Click to expand...
Aren't NFL players just people who came from AMERICA society? Aren't they the kids of rich people, poor people, druggies, homeless people, thieves, and even possibly prostitutes (</JeffIreland>)? I'd expect a higher rate of lawlessness among NFL players than among doctors simply because I'd bet the average doctor came from a much better situation. And yes, that matters.I'd say comparing NFL players to society at large is a perfectly valid comparison. Besides, I think you might be underestimating how prevalent "white collar crimes" are among the wealthy. In fact, I have a tiny little suspicion that if you controlled properly for socioeconomic background, NFL players might even come out with a lower crime rate than doctors... but I really have no evidence on that one way or another, just a tiny little suspicion.

I have a much bigger suspicion, by the way, that the average NFL player probably donates more time and money to charity than the peers in their income brackets. Something to consider when trying to paint NFL players as thugs or criminals.
Click to expand...
I really dont know what an apple to apple comparison would be but it sure isnt American Society as a whole. We are talking Collage educated, high paid individuals that have every opportunity to succeed in life. You say that you expect a higher rate of Lawlessness from NFL players than doctors because of background? Explain this to me? Are you saying because of their race? Poor? Stupid? No Mother or Father? I will say I think it has to do with maybe the friends they hang out with more than anything else. Which maybe points to more of a character issue? Needing to make better choices..

And the bigger suspicion you have about charity work. I probably agree with you. I am no fan of Doctors and Medical Care in America.

 
Crime is no worse now in the NFL than it has been in the last 40 years. The only thing that has changed is how the media, teams, NFL, and law enforcement react.

 
griff321 said:
Yes, NFL players are from American Society, but they CAN be compared to doctors easier then the general public because they both share post secondary edjucation.
Click to expand...
For whoever is keeping track, I'm going to vote against the doctor-athlete comparison and the more general notion that post-secondary education is relevant. My guess is that college education and law-abidance are not related in any way at all. They correlate numerically (very strongly) because they're both caused by the same lurking variable: a very tough-to-measure thing that could best be described as "ability and willingness to conform to the norms of society." That is, college attendance is a proxy for, for lack of a better word, conformism and that's why it correlates so well with lower crime rates. If NFL players were a representative sample of "college educated people" then it would make sense to expect their crime rates to be similar to those of other college educated people. But, in many cases the future NFLer's reasons for going to college, and their experience while there, were completely different from the average students' reasons and experiences. (Note: if you bring up Myron Rolle, Calvin Johnson, Chad Pennington, etc, who did seem to have more traditional college experiences, I will point out that Myron Rolle, Calvin Johnson, and Chad Pennington aren't the reason we have these threads all the time.)

Figuring out what the NFL crime rate "should be" is pretty tricky, and I don't have an answer. As is the case when we discuss strikes/lockouts, whether it's OK to ask if someone's mom is a prostitute, and a variety of other issues, NFL circumstances are so unnatural, so different from anything else that exists, that it's impossible to find a comparison that captures all the elements you want to capture.

 
griff321 said:
Yes, NFL players are from American Society, but they CAN be compared to doctors easier then the general public because they both share post secondary edjucation. According to the Bureau of Criminal Statistics, the level of crime among a group goes down dramatically as the edjucation level increases. The same report states that 48.4% of American Society has recieved some postsecondary edjucation and that group makes up 12.7% of the prison population as of 2003. For College graduates the number goes down even more. The group makes up about 26% of the population but is 4.8% of the number of probationers. (source)So if the above article is correct that only 2% of NFL players commit crime, then they would compare even more favorably then their peers.
Click to expand...
Correlation does not imply causation. A lower percentage of "educated" people go to jail. A lower percentage of people who grew up in rich families go to jail. There's a strong correlation between growing up in a rich family and becoming "educated"... so are those people going to jail less because they're educated, or because they grew up in a rich family? That's why it's important to control for socioeconomic background.
Kowskull said:
I really dont know what an apple to apple comparison would be but it sure isnt American Society as a whole. We are talking Collage educated, high paid individuals that have every opportunity to succeed in life.

You say that you expect a higher rate of Lawlessness from NFL players than doctors because of background? Explain this to me? Are you saying because of their race? Poor? Stupid? No Mother or Father? I will say I think it has to do with maybe the friends they hang out with more than anything else. Which maybe points to more of a character issue? Needing to make better choices..

And the bigger suspicion you have about charity work. I probably agree with you. I am no fan of Doctors and Medical Care in America.
Click to expand...
I'm saying because of their wealth growing up, as well as their circumstances growing up.You say that it has to do with the people they hang out with, which is a character issue. I agree with the first point, but not with the second. For instance, I have never in my life hung out with a gang member. I grew up in an upper-middle-class neighborhood of a suburban city where there WAS no gang activity. 0% of the people I knew growing up were in gangs, so the odds of me befriending a gang member were likewise 0%. If I had grown up in a poor neighborhood of a major urban area and attended an inner-city school, then I'd say that the odds would be infinitely higher that I would have made friends with a gang member- in other words, they would go from zero to some non-zero number. It's not because my character would be any different- I would be exactly the same person- it's because my ENVIRONMENT would be different.

At the same time, I'd be learning much different behaviors from what was modeled to me. When I grew up, I learned that stealing was unacceptable. At the same time, I grew up in an area with a microscopic crime rate, so I never knew anyone who stole, never knew anyone who was robbed, never saw anyone benefit from a theft. If I grew up poor and my parents would steal things from WalMart because they couldn't afford to buy them, then I bet I'd have a much different attitude on theft.

Where you grow up, who you grow up with, how much wealth you grew up with... all of these things play a huge role in our development. I would expect someone who came from a similar background to mine- one of affluence, safety, and minimal criminality- to be much less criminally inclined than someone who came from a radically different background- one of poverty, constant danger, and criminal activity. I'd expect someone to be far more likely to do drugs if they came from a neighborhood where drugs were readily available and easily procured. I'd expect someone to be far more likely to steal if they came from a family where it was modeled that it was acceptable to just take what you wanted simply because you wanted it. Giving a kid millions of dollars isn't enough to completely wash away his entire upbringing and make him exactly the same as another kid who inherited his fortune from mommy and daddy. In fact, someone who came from crushing poverty is far more likely to do something stupid once they become rich simply because they've never learned how to handle money, because their family has never HAD money.

 
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