Niko Koutouvides confirmed MLB (1 Viewer)

[LBH]

does anybody know for sure that Niko wont be a 3 down LB? Doesnt seem like hes really had a fair chance since he was behind Tatupu in Seattle.

 

[LBH]

Jene - First of all, it appears that I stand corrected about Koutouvides remaining Denver's starting MLB. Since I felt otherwise previously, I should be the first to say so.Do you have enough of a feel for Denver's defensive scheme this year to say if it favors the MIKE (Koutouvides) or the WILL (D.J.)?

All 4-3 schemes are MLBcentric. But it's kind of like Animal Farm -- some 4-3s are more favorable than others. The Tampa-2 bumps the value of the WLB, but doesn't really kill the MLB value. The Bates scheme that Denver started with last year is very favorable to the Mike. It may look like this Denver scheme favors the Will by year's end in the box scores, but it'll be because DJ is a better player than Niko and because Niko will probably sit on passing downs. And it'll hopefully make the "real" Denver MLB to come underrated and easy pickings when he arrives.

what leads you to believe that Niko will sit on passing downs? Is it something you heard or read from the coaching staff in Denver, or is it pure speculation on your part? I really dont know anything about the guy except he was a strong ST player in Seattle

 

[Jene Bramel]

Jene - First of all, it appears that I stand corrected about Koutouvides remaining Denver's starting MLB. Since I felt otherwise previously, I should be the first to say so.Do you have enough of a feel for Denver's defensive scheme this year to say if it favors the MIKE (Koutouvides) or the WILL (D.J.)?

All 4-3 schemes are MLBcentric. But it's kind of like Animal Farm -- some 4-3s are more favorable than others. The Tampa-2 bumps the value of the WLB, but doesn't really kill the MLB value. The Bates scheme that Denver started with last year is very favorable to the Mike. It may look like this Denver scheme favors the Will by year's end in the box scores, but it'll be because DJ is a better player than Niko and because Niko will probably sit on passing downs. And it'll hopefully make the "real" Denver MLB to come underrated and easy pickings when he arrives.

what leads you to believe that Niko will sit on passing downs? Is it something you heard or read from the coaching staff in Denver, or is it pure speculation on your part? I really dont know anything about the guy except he was a strong ST player in Seattle

Mostly speculation based on a belief that a healthy Boss Bailey is a more athletic player and as capable in coverage as Koutouvides. It's entirely possible that he ends up on the field on passing downs.

 

[Crippler]

And where will this leave Boss. Ian Gold in the past has scored not bad from his position and that was when Denver had a top MLB in Al Wilson.

Does he score better than Niko ?????

 

[Zoomanji]

Can we merge the 2 Niko threads?

 

[J Giles Band]

And where will this leave Boss. Ian Gold in the past has scored not bad from his position and that was when Denver had a top MLB in Al Wilson. Does he score better than Niko ?????

Ian Gold was on the weakside. Boss will be playing the strong side. I don't think you can begin to compare the two and hope for similar results.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Can we merge the 2 Niko threads?

Sounds like a plan.

And where will this leave Boss. Ian Gold in the past has scored not bad from his position and that was when Denver had a top MLB in Al Wilson. Does he score better than Niko ?????

Ian Gold was on the weakside. Boss will be playing the strong side. I don't think you can begin to compare the two and hope for similar results.

Once upon a time (2002), Gold did get some snaps on the left side in Denver and was pretty productive. But, I agree, I don't think the two situations are comparable. I don't see much more than back end depth upside for Bailey. Too many concerns -- injury, ability to shed blockers, Williams playing the pursuit role, etc. If Koutouvides plays only on rushing downs, he's probably still at least as valuable as Bailey.

 

[LBH]

I dont get why so many people are passing judgment on a guy who has excelled as a STeamer and was stuck behind one of the top MLBs in the NFL. Was there a time when he had a chance and everybody saw him play? People in this thread keep saying his talent is below average and hes just a stop gap. How do we know if he hasnt really had the oppurtunity to show that he can be a solid starting MLB? He seems like a draft bargain right now to me, but Ill admit I havent seen any of this guy, and only heard of him recently.

 

[bcr8f]

I dont get why so many people are passing judgment on a guy who has excelled as a STeamer and was stuck behind one of the top MLBs in the NFL. Was there a time when he had a chance and everybody saw him play? People in this thread keep saying his talent is below average and hes just a stop gap. How do we know if he hasnt really had the oppurtunity to show that he can be a solid starting MLB? He seems like a draft bargain right now to me, but Ill admit I havent seen any of this guy, and only heard of him recently.

He never started. Lofa wasn't considered a great talent but his instincts when he got on the field changed people's minds. The fact they paid him what they did and didn't really draft a great talent tells me he'll have a shot. What he does with it is up to him. If he fails I wonder if they'll move Williams back to the middle. I hope he succeeds.

 

[Rozelle]

I dont get why so many people are passing judgment on a guy who has excelled as a STeamer and was stuck behind one of the top MLBs in the NFL. Was there a time when he had a chance and everybody saw him play? People in this thread keep saying his talent is below average and hes just a stop gap. How do we know if he hasnt really had the oppurtunity to show that he can be a solid starting MLB? He seems like a draft bargain right now to me, but Ill admit I havent seen any of this guy, and only heard of him recently.

Like many others, stop gap is my view also, but you never know ... he could be the type of player every year your looking to replace, but just can't bump him from the lineup. Your right ... nobody really knows how this is gonna play out.

I think one reason people feel he is a stop gap is ... if Seattle thought Niko was starting MLB material, they wouldn't moved up nine spots in the 2nd round of the 2005 draft to select Tatupu.

 

[Rozelle]

Niko update ...

PFW Whispers June 15, 2008

The Broncos paid Niko Koutouvides starter’s money when they signed him to a three-year, $7.5 million contract in

March. Yet, we hear he hasn’t pulled away in the race to become the starting middle linebacker, though Denver would like him to. Nate Webster, who started on the strong side last year, has been rotating with Koutouvides on the first-team defense.

 

[Tenacious D]

Niko update ...

PFW Whispers June 15, 2008

The Broncos paid Niko Koutouvides starter’s money when they signed him to a three-year, $7.5 million contract in

March. Yet, we hear he hasn’t pulled away in the race to become the starting middle linebacker, though Denver would like him to. Nate Webster, who started on the strong side last year, has been rotating with Koutouvides on the first-team defense.

Yeah, spring and early summer is a bit to early to "confirm" anyone in a competition. I think Niko eventually wins, but I don't think he's an every-down player.

 

[kethnaab]

so how badly does this really affect DJ williams' value? He played extremely well last season, why does Denver seem so intent on finding a MLB?

 

[bcr8f]

so how badly does this really affect DJ williams' value? He played extremely well last season, why does Denver seem so intent on finding a MLB?

Because a lot of his tackles happened 5 yards downfield. A good fantasy players doesn't always mean a good defender.

 

[Weiner Dog]

so how badly does this really affect DJ williams' value? He played extremely well last season, why does Denver seem so intent on finding a MLB?

Because a lot of his tackles happened 5 yards downfield. A good fantasy players doesn't always mean a good defender.

The attached link (from another thread) shows DJ only allowing 3.05 yards/tackle. This ranked him in the Top 1/3 of all MLB's last year.link:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=239185

Average Tackle

2.14- Tatupu

2.39- Gaither

2.47- Henderson

2.74- Morrison

2.95- Pierce

3.05- DJ Williams

3.05- Ruud

3.29- Brackett

3.35- DiGiorgio

3.57- Witherspoon

3.63- Lenon

3.66- Fletcher

3.68- Peterson

3.76- Beason

3.76- Urlacher

3.83- Brooking

3.99- Barnett

4.08- Harris

4.10- Ryans

4.23- Simoneau

1.59- A. Davis

2.19- Foote

2.28- Scott

2.32- Farrior

2.67- Dansby

2.7- D. Smith

2.97- Ayodele

3.23- B. James

3.40- Hayes

3.51- Bruschi

3.51- L. Williams

3.62- Barton

3.86- Lewis

3.90- Willis

3.94- Cooper

4.38- D. Harris

4.49- Wilhelm

4.54- D'Qwell

 

[Jene Bramel]

so how badly does this really affect DJ williams' value? He played extremely well last season, why does Denver seem so intent on finding a MLB?

Because a lot of his tackles happened 5 yards downfield. A good fantasy players doesn't always mean a good defender.

I hate this stat, but I agree with the follow-up sentiment.I think the real answer here is that the Broncos were never comfortable committing to Williams at MLB (and the Jim Bates defensive system). Cecil had indications very early on that the majority of the coaching staff were disappointed in his development in the middle and multiple players (esp in the secondary) voiced concerns that they weren't comfortable in the scheme. The Broncos let Williams finish the season in the middle, but probably would've moved him if they had the talent around him to do it. Some were (and still are) high on Nate Webster as a every down MLB, but he's a guy that couldn't cut it on teams with open MLB competitions his entire career. If the Broncos were serious about finding a MLB, there were plenty of other options better than Koutouvides and Larsen -- Briggs, Vilma and a host of rookies that could've been developed. With Bates gone, there was no longer a voice in the room for Williams.Williams wasn't Ray Lewis or Al Wilson, but he wasn't the major reason for the Broncos' relatively poor play against the run all season either.I haven't come off my projections earlier in the thread for Williams -- somewhere in the 80-89 solo tackle range (more likely 82 than 89) with a handful of nice peripheral stats -- he's got mid LB2 upside, but will struggle to finish in the top ten without the Bates scheme bump and OLB role.