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NL: MVP (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Kuz
- Start date
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Put me in the camp that believes that unless a player has a astronomically good season playing for a losing club.......the MVP should go to the most productive player on a playoff team...or a player that is credited as being the "straw that stirs the drink" on a playoff team. I think that Manny deserves some consideration.....Sabathia......Delgado and Howard.
Kuz
Footballguy
me too.. Manny actually should be in the talks as well. The year Pujols is having is great but Howard seems to be carrying the Phils lately. He's only hitting .250 but has 46 Homers & 141 RBI's.. I'm thinking he would be an easy winner but I have to admit I haven't been keeping that close a tabs..thanks for the reply..
Kuz
Footballguy
really.. I guess I will most likely lose my bet then but if Howard ends up with 50 HR's & 150 RBI's.. you think Burrell has been more valuable..
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Howard shouldn't finish in the top 5. There is more to being a valuable player than just hitting home runs. He is a defensive liability, he strikes out a ton, his batting average sucks, and he has no speed at all.
Pujols should win, but I am not sure if he will. The Cardinals were in contention the entire season, so that'll work to his benefit, as will the fact that there really isn't a standout MVP candidate on the teams likely to make the playoffs.
Cubs - Have been the best overall team, but they really do not have any one player who has stood out enough to win the MVP award.
Phillies - Nope.
Dodgers - Nope (and I laugh at anyone who says Ramirez)
Mets - Nope (David Wright has really struggled down the stretch, and Delgado sucked for the first half of the season).
Pujols should win, but I am not sure if he will. The Cardinals were in contention the entire season, so that'll work to his benefit, as will the fact that there really isn't a standout MVP candidate on the teams likely to make the playoffs.
Cubs - Have been the best overall team, but they really do not have any one player who has stood out enough to win the MVP award.
Phillies - Nope.
Dodgers - Nope (and I laugh at anyone who says Ramirez)
Mets - Nope (David Wright has really struggled down the stretch, and Delgado sucked for the first half of the season).
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Such a ridiculous argument.Ghost Rider said:
MaddHatter
Footballguy
You must not watch the Phillies.Add in the fact that Howard is a lot quicker than most compared to him size-wise. Look at the triple he had the other night. Defensive liability? Like I said, you must not watch the Phillies, or baseball for that matter.Ghost Rider said:the closest the cubs have is aramis ramirez or soto.
A
awesomeness
Guest
Ryan Howard. Timely hitting is priceless.
Capella
Footballguy
With RISP, Albert Pujols has a .509 OBP. Howard, .436. Howard has also had a startling 61 more at-bats with runners in scoring position, than Pujols has. I cannot imagine anybody voting for Howard over Pujols, but I imagine it will happen.
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A
awesomeness
Guest
I dont think OBP is the stat you should be looking at in respect to how a player does with RISP. Barring record breaking numbers, the MVP award goes to a player who's on a team that makes the playoffs.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Ryan Howard didn't have record breaking numbers in 06 when he won the MVP in '06. Barry Bonds didn't have record breaking numbers every year when he was winning multiple MVPs earlier this decade. Alex Rodriguez, Andre Dawson, yada, yada, yada. No one has been more valuable to his team in the NL this year than Pujols. Imagine if the Cards bullpen hadn't blown 30 plus saves.
Riiight. Players who suck for half a season and then get hot down the stretch are always more valuable than players who are consistently great all season. And what is Delgado's current batting average again?
Quicker than most his size? That doesn't mean squat. What are you saying...that he is the one of the fastest fat men in the league? Big deal. He still lacks speed. And, yes, he is somewhat of a defensive liability. His zone rating is better than I thought it was, but he does have the most errors among full-time first baseman in the NL. Meanwhile, Pujols is first across the board in the NL among first baseman.You must not watch the Phillies.Add in the fact that Howard is a lot quicker than most compared to him size-wise. Look at the triple he had the other night. Defensive liability? Like I said, you must not watch the Phillies, or baseball for that matter.Ghost Rider said:the closest the cubs have is aramis ramirez or soto.
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the moops
Footballguy
You must watch them too much. Your fan boy attitude has clouded your judgment.
Nigel Incubator-Jones
Footballguy
It should be Pujols.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Doesn't seem to be alot of guys who watch baseball in this thread.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I love the stat geeks who think that April hitting is as important as Sept hitting.
lol at Sportscenter watching dudes thinking Howard had a better season because he is ahead in HR and RBI... It is not really closeNigel Incubator-Jones
Footballguy
I am glad that some people here understand what the MVP actually is. If Pujols was not on the Cardinals, they wouldn't even be fighting for a playoff spot the last week of the season.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Stat geeks might not like it but in regards to awards..... HR's matter. Wins matter (in the Cy Young race). RBI's matter. Players who play for a playoff team matter. Timely hitting matters. Stretch run hitting matters. To think otherwise is just dumb.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Wow quite a campaign you're running here. Claiming people who think Pujols should win over Howard don't watch baseball is a pretty vanilla and ignorant comment. Timely hitting does matter and Pujols hits better with RISP. Guess what that is?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I love people who think a guy hitting .245 should be MVP of the entire league.
the moops
Footballguy
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yes, but Brad Lidge has been a stud for the Phillies this year, while the Cardinals bullpen has blown over 30 saves, so that somehow makes Howard more valuable than Pujols.
A
awesomeness
Guest
And to think i thought R, HR, RBI, .BA were the most important important categories.
A
awesomeness
Guest
Pujols sure is cold during the most important time of the baseball calendar. Batting .095 the last 7 days...
Capella
Footballguy
Shtick?
Please See Mine
Footballguy
Defensive liability? Like I said, you must not watch the Phillies, or baseball for that matter.Ghost Rider said:the closest the cubs have is aramis ramirez or soto.
Kuz
Footballguy
I agree that Pujols is having the better year & should win this.. The main reason I made the bet with my brother is simply that the Cards won't make the playoffs which will hurt his chances IMO. I then tried to find somebody to give it to other than Pujols & came up with Howard based merely on his HR's & RBI's.. etc. I will add that I haven't watched as much of the NL as the AL so I'm letting the experts argue the points.. Funny thing I just looked up.. Since 1994 only once in the AL has the MVP been on a team that hasn't made the playoffs.. Since 1994 in the NL it's happend 6 or 7 times.. Most are Bonds but I did find it odd that it has happened much more in the NL.. which lends me to believe Pujols will in fact win it..
What about the AL.. Morneau or Pedroia?? let's get another one going.. haha..
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I never claimed that Howard should win over Pujols. My statement at the beginning of the thread is what my expectations as to what the MVP should be. As far as watching baseball goes, I understand that OBP and other measures of measuring a players success are coming to the forefront....but one who thinks that Howard doesn't have a chance obviously places to much emphasis on those measures at the expense of HR and RBI (something that still weighs in the mind of the fan and the voter).Doctor Detroit said:
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Do wins count for more in September than they do in April? I always thought you got credit for just one no matter what month it came in.I love the stat geeks who think that April hitting is as important as Sept hitting.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Do wins count for more in September than they do in April? I always thought you got credit for just one no matter what month it came in.
If Howard had hit like this all season, the Phillies might not even have to worry about September.Also, for some stat geek numbers that factor in clutch play, look at WPA, where Howard is way behind the other candidates.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
MVP wannabe Ryan Howard committed his 18th error tonight, which proved costly, as it opened the floodgates for the Braves to score six runs in the fifth inning tonight, four of which were unearned because of yet another error by the defensive liability who plays at 1B for the Phillies. That turned a 3-3 tie into a 9-3 deficit in a game they eventually lost.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Howard still got way more votes than he should have, but Pujols won the MVP award. As he should have. 
the moops
Footballguy
And as ridiculous as it is that Howard got any first place votes, it is ten times worse that 2 complete idiots managed to put Pujols 3rd on their ballot.Baseball writers are dumb.Howard still got way more votes than he should have, but Pujols won the MVP award. As he should have.
the moops
Footballguy
Holy ####. They are dumber than I thought.Apparently Pujols got 18 first place votes, 10 second place, 2 third, 1 fourth, and 1 seventh!!And as ridiculous as it is that Howard got any first place votes, it is ten times worse that 2 complete idiots managed to put Pujols 3rd on their ballot.Baseball writers are dumb.Howard still got way more votes than he should have, but Pujols won the MVP award. As he should have.
Even their website is dumb
Oh, and Brad Lidge got 2 first place votes.
Can't wait to see how screwed up the AL MVP is gonna be. I predict at least 6 first place votes for K-Rod.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I have no problem with Lidge getting two first place votes. Considering he was perfect in saves, I thought he was much more deserving than the .250 hitting Ryan Howard.
Shoot, had the Cardinals had a closer who was perfect, the Cardinals would have won the Central over the Cubs.
Shoot, had the Cardinals had a closer who was perfect, the Cardinals would have won the Central over the Cubs.
dparker713
Footballguy
He must work for the Astros organization.Do wins count for more in September than they do in April? I always thought you got credit for just one no matter what month it came in.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
crewmember
Footballguy
Oh well, would have been nice for some more hardware but can't get too greedy.
No shame in finishing behind Albert.
No shame in finishing behind Albert.
