The Commish
Footballguy
Anyone? Just wondering..would like to see this side of NPR and I also wonder if those who don't like NPR listen to the other 95% of what they have to offer outside of politics.The Commish said:
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NPR is starting a Disinformation Team (1 Viewer)
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
Is there an equivalent media source on the reverse side of that coin?IvanKaramazov said:
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Probably. I don't consume conservative media, but I would assume that there's probably a similar dynamic at Gateway Pundit or something.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Would you say that Gateway Pundit has the same percentage of disinformation as NPR?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm sure NPR is probably better than Gateway Pundit, but TBH I barely pay attention to NPR and I don't pay attention to Gateway Pundit at all.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Understood.
Can any one of you other guys saying NPR is substantially biased suggest an equivalent media source that a) is biased in favor of conservatives and b) has similar rates of accuracy / disinformation to NPR?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
This is hard. One of the things about their digital side is that it is mostly faceless. Whereas on the right wing side the person is front an center.
Maybe san Diego union trib? Maybe Washington examiner. Those are two where I think of the company first rather than the face. I think they are mostly accurate, but with a strong selection bias. I also think they have a low bs meter for stories they agree with.
This is where I fault NPR the most. Their digital team has zero desire to cut through anything that is obvious bs. As long as they can hang their hat on a single source saying something they agree with, they give it play.
That's how most media is these days. Gone are the days where an on record source with some sort of backup is required. Welcome to the age of single source reporting where we don't ask any tough questions and just put quotation marks around the inflammatory word(s).
I posted about this story in the media criticism thread, and I don't remember all the details exactly, but I know it is in there.
But NPR put out a piece about white supremacists using cars as weapons seeing a dramatic rise. They quoted an "expert" that had all sorts of data. Almost all of it terrible. They had to retract big parts of it. They then reposted the story with modifications and used a story with a photo of a car hitting a black male. Well the story turned out to be a black female driver and it was on a parallel street to the protests and the black male that got hit had actually pulled a gun as further video showed.
So they then modified again, used a photo from Charlottesville and basically used the broadest quotes they could.
They were so devoted to the cause of their story that rather than just scrap it after two false tries, they needed to keep that message out there.
That is exactly the kind of thing I would expect somebody like hannity to do. Throw something out there. Have it proven wrong. Shift gears, have proven wrong again, and then ultimately just make it about your "bigger point."
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Excellent post, @parasaurolophus.
I don't read many NPR stories online and I don't have a Twitter account. I do listen to their radio shows though.
I don't read many NPR stories online and I don't have a Twitter account. I do listen to their radio shows though.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
To clarify, I don't think NPR is especially biased, any more so than any other legacy media outlet. I mentioned Dan Rather in the post that started this exchange between the two of us, because I was just thinking of newsrooms in general. It occurred to me later on that you might have read my posts as making it sound as if I view NPR as some kind of lefty equivalent of OAN, and that's definitely not the case. If I was going to compare NPR to something, it might be MSNBC but that's not quite right. MSNBC is partisan in a way that NPR isn't -- it's just that NPR is culturally pretty liberal. That's all.
Jayrod
Footballguy
On the way home from work today, I listened to a segment on All Things Considered about discussing abortion with your children. Having been in this discussion today, I wanted to see how it would go.
Each of the questions they selected and expert opinions given were from the pro-choice point of view. No conservative or pro-life view was expressed by anyone in the segment.
The whole thing made me nauseous. The mood was extremely light considering the subject matter. One of the experts even said something along the lines of there is no right or wrong, only opinions. There was a advice on getting your child to not think of it as a baby and how to handle when they ask what happens to it afterward.
Ultimately it was an extremely biased segment and I made sure to listen to the whole thing from start to finish despite my strong opinions to the contrary.
Each of the questions they selected and expert opinions given were from the pro-choice point of view. No conservative or pro-life view was expressed by anyone in the segment.
The whole thing made me nauseous. The mood was extremely light considering the subject matter. One of the experts even said something along the lines of there is no right or wrong, only opinions. There was a advice on getting your child to not think of it as a baby and how to handle when they ask what happens to it afterward.
Ultimately it was an extremely biased segment and I made sure to listen to the whole thing from start to finish despite my strong opinions to the contrary.
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FairWarning
Footballguy
They don’t play metal
They don’t talk sports
They don’t talk gambling/fantasy
No need to listen here.
The Commish
Footballguy
For anyone interested
The show was on how to deal with educating your young children on abortion when they start asking questions. In my conservative upbringing, I consider "your opinion is yours and yours alone and it's ok to think different from others" to be a pretty conservative POV. I can see how "I don't want to push my views on my children but still want to talk to them about it" might not be considered conservative though.
I was wondering if topics like this were what was being referred to in this thread
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
@Jayrod - is this what you listened to?For anyone interested
The show was on how to deal with educating your young children on abortion when they start asking questions. In my conservative upbringing, I consider "your opinion is yours and yours alone and it's ok to think different from others" to be a pretty conservative POV. I can see how "I don't want to push my views on my children but still want to talk to them about it" might not be considered conservative though.
I was wondering if topics like this were what was being referred to in this thread
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I read the whole transcript - I had an issue with the phrasing of there’s no right and wrong with opinions as that’s obviously not true but outside that the whole segment seemed totally vanilla. I’m struggling to understand what they said that would be controversial.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
It makes me so happy to see a written transcript when I click a link, so I don't have to sit there and listen to people drone on.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
What is your advice to someone like Megan Workman, who we just heard from? Like, what is the first step to approaching this topic with kids, you think?
Well, I am sort of wondering - now that we're talking about where do you even begin? - like, what is the right age to even start a conversation like this?
So, Dr. Berlan, I want to turn to you because as a pediatrician, how might you explain an abortion procedure to a child?
I wanted to talk more about that. Thank you so much for bringing that up because parents have told us that they are wrestling with how to help their kids talk about it with sensitivity if it does come up. Like, take James Memmott. He's a dad of four in Kaysville, Utah, and he's talking here about his 7-year-old daughter.
How do you invite your kids to wrestle with really complicated, painful, not black-and-white questions in a way that's curious and compassionate without just encouraging them to accept what you think about the issue?
CHANG: And Meg Embry is just one of many parents who reached out to us who had concerns about imposing their own beliefs on their children. And I'm just curious, Ms. Patel, what advice do you have for parents navigating this potential conflict of opinion and wanting their kids to make up their own minds about this issue?
And I'm just curious, like, what do you think personally? Should you as a parent have a different kind of conversation about abortion based on the gender of your kids?
Well, I am sort of wondering - now that we're talking about where do you even begin? - like, what is the right age to even start a conversation like this?
So, Dr. Berlan, I want to turn to you because as a pediatrician, how might you explain an abortion procedure to a child?
I wanted to talk more about that. Thank you so much for bringing that up because parents have told us that they are wrestling with how to help their kids talk about it with sensitivity if it does come up. Like, take James Memmott. He's a dad of four in Kaysville, Utah, and he's talking here about his 7-year-old daughter.
How do you invite your kids to wrestle with really complicated, painful, not black-and-white questions in a way that's curious and compassionate without just encouraging them to accept what you think about the issue?
CHANG: And Meg Embry is just one of many parents who reached out to us who had concerns about imposing their own beliefs on their children. And I'm just curious, Ms. Patel, what advice do you have for parents navigating this potential conflict of opinion and wanting their kids to make up their own minds about this issue?
And I'm just curious, like, what do you think personally? Should you as a parent have a different kind of conversation about abortion based on the gender of your kids?
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Reading his post, I suspect the controversial part was advice about not thinking of the thing as a baby, but I thought the point was more that it was a one-sided view and didn't have any oppositional takes in the segment.
I don't think it's on a podcast or source to include both sides for each episode. If it's just an interview with one person, for example. Just that overall I ask if they are making an effort to include different views and opinions.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I didn't like the whole "over-anxious parent who doesn't know how to talk to their own children" vibe to this piece, but otherwise I didn't have a problem with it. It would have been nice to have at least one pro-life guest, but it's not as if they really got into the abortion issue all that much.
The Commish
Footballguy
This thread's visceral reaction to NPR got me thinking like I was missing something. Then I realized the ONLY time I go to npr.com is to get a transcript of something I heard while in the car. I don't think I've ever read any of their online content which apparently is pretty different from what they present on the radio in terms of politics anyway.
Philo Beddoe
Footballguy
I don’t plan on speaking with my nine year old daughter about abortion. Seems weird to me never mind if she were 7.
Weird how all the leftist news sites now have disinformation teams. It’s almost likes nobody believes what the say anymore.
Weird how all the leftist news sites now have disinformation teams. It’s almost likes nobody believes what the say anymore.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I guess I get that but what view or opinion did these two give that made you think they were pro-choice or pro-life?
Joe Mammy
Footballguy
I listen to NPR in the car all the time. And it's great for road trips, the time passes. I've even had "driveway moments" where I sit in my car after getting home to hear the end of a segment.
My local is out of Gainesville and tied to UF.
And NPR does do sports on occasion. Ever hear of "quadball"?
My local is out of Gainesville and tied to UF.
And NPR does do sports on occasion. Ever hear of "quadball"?
The Commish
Footballguy
My gripe too...of course I've never been one to give a poop about having to give presentations/reports to "senior executive vice presidents" either....we're all freakin' people. If you can't talk to your kids who CAN you talk to?
the moops
Footballguy
That's fine. But many 9 year olds or 7 year olds may ask questions about it. What would you say if she did ask you about? Maybe it would be nice to have some tips from a professional on how to talk to her about it?
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Good question, I don't think it was overt, but things like this part:
BERLAN: Mm hmm. When I think about kind of how to respond to this mom, I might think about talking about that some parents need to end the pregnancy and that it might be better and healthier and safer for the parent to end the pregnancy. So I tend to use kind of terminology about the pregnancy and not refer so much around the baby, even though that can be where children go.
.. stand out to me. I think somebody pro-life, or at least gauging from posts around here, would have a different way of framing this and probably would stress different things with their kids - ie would they avoid referring to the baby? Like I said, not overt, but I got a similar vibe. IMO not nearly as problematic as jayrod seemed to be presenting it, and certainly not a great example of NPR being a heavily biased source.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I haven't planned on speaking to my 7 year old about death and other things, but #### happens. She is a sponge and absorbs a ton and picks up a lot of what people are talking about around her. I would guess many kids are similar.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Wouldn't that roughly be the answer from a Pro-life person too? Or is somebody looking for the person to reply "some parents want to end the pregnancy" vs. "need"? That small change would be fair. I really just want to hear the parts that Jayrod had an issue with as maybe I missed something or interpreted something differently.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Do you have kids? Kids hear and see all kinds of stuff now. They ask questions. I would assume no matter where you fall on the abortion issue you would want to make sure your kid is hearing the right things. Would I bring it up with a 7 year old out of the blue - most likely no but the segment seemed to be talking more to those parents who are faced with it - I didn't get the impression they were pushing that you need to have that conversation with a 7 year old unprompted.
djmich
Footballguy
I do, but they are early teens now.
I wasn’t intending to imply NPR was doing anything here, I was just riffing off the craziness of some of the conversations that we’re having with children who at that stage in their life are still believing in some fairytales.
Yes…agree in 2022 that’s how we roll.
The Commish
Footballguy
From a religious perspective, probably not. I'm rather confident terminating a life is part of the message. What happens when those babies "die" is discussed. Keeping the baby is what should be done etc etc. Yes...even that young.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Got it - I guess I would get that. My interpretation of "some parents want to end the pregnancy" is straightforward but maybe the perception being that by not saying that some people see that as ending the baby's life that it's permission by omission.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Just getting back to this thread.
Yes, that is the segment.
My issues were:
In typical NPR fashion it was a well done segment and informative and not overly confrontational or overtly biased. But like I first stated in this thread, I just think they don't know any better because there isn't a single person in the room who has a different opinion on the matter. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a single pro-life advocate on staff anywhere in the NPR organization. Therefore when they present the information, of course no one has a problem with the two quotes above and it just floats by unopposed. When I listened to it live, I instantly bristled at both quotes because they are quite counter to what I think and believe and certainly to what I think should be taught to children, especially my own children.
Yes, that is the segment.
My issues were:
- Not one person expressed a single pro-life view in either the questions or the answers. Not one. It wasn't a beat you over the head that abortion is OK segment, but the concept that abortion might be considered wrong was completely ignored. The entire segment indicated that you need to guide your child into understanding abortion on their level, but was all done within the realm of this is a normal and OK practice. Whereas for pro-life it is akin to something extremely immoral and abhorrent. That line of thinking was never even considered or hinted at. They treated it like a "birds and the bees" type discussion. When I've discussed it with my kids, it takes a much darker tone...which gets me to my next point.
- This first quote I find very unsettling: "BERLAN: Mm hmm. When I think about kind of how to respond to this mom, I might think about talking about that some parents need to end the pregnancy and that it might be better and healthier and safer for the parent to end the pregnancy. So I tend to use kind of terminology about the pregnancy and not refer so much around the baby, even though that can be where children go." This is approaching it 100% from the pro-choice point of view. It is literally trying to get the child who naturally call it a baby (huh, that's odd), to not think of it as a baby. Because THAT is the only way to justify the pro-choice stance, that it isn't a baby, it is a lump of cells. To not even acknowledge that some people think of it differently and give one sided advice is very biased. The only people who can't see this think this way.
- This is the second quote I have a real problem with: "PATEL: So it's a great life lesson to teach children that it's OK to have whatever opinion that you have. There's no right or wrong. So it's important to allow them to create their own opinions but be respectful for others and then where and when to have these conversations with individuals." This is just such a flawed concept I barely know where to begin. It is at the crux of the problem with so many issues we have in society. That the experts in this panel express this view without a single person pushing back again speaks to their bias.
In typical NPR fashion it was a well done segment and informative and not overly confrontational or overtly biased. But like I first stated in this thread, I just think they don't know any better because there isn't a single person in the room who has a different opinion on the matter. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a single pro-life advocate on staff anywhere in the NPR organization. Therefore when they present the information, of course no one has a problem with the two quotes above and it just floats by unopposed. When I listened to it live, I instantly bristled at both quotes because they are quite counter to what I think and believe and certainly to what I think should be taught to children, especially my own children.
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
It’s crazy for any media outlet to want to fight against disinformation. How dare they!! All media should seek to copy Fox News and actively spread disinformation!
The Commish
Footballguy
Thanks for the validation of the points made above. I will say this one thing and it applies to the position of abortion only in terms of their coverage. They will NEVER have a segment on there that is religious in nature/belief. It's not going to happen. I was raised in a house as you describe above, so I understand 100% where you're coming from. That sort of teaching, IMO, should be left to the families. However, what NPR presented in that segment is easily within the guidelines of "moderate" if we're on the sliding scale. How I was raised was REALLY conservative so I understand why this position might come across to someone with a similar background as "liberal" in nature. And now I totally get why you said what you did, so thanks for that.
I've chosen not to "go dark" with my kids at that age. I simply don't see the point. I can't find a fruitful end by doing so. It's easy enough to talk to them and get age appropriate content in their minds without it. If they ask deeper questions, that tells me they are ready for deeper conversation and I'll proceed.
I don't understand your opposition to the opinion stuff though, especially at that age. Teaching right from wrong is teaching right from wrong. Understanding what opinions are and that everyone is entitled to one is a completely different topic that I feel should be taught. But in my view, they shouldn't be mixed because they are so young and really aren't going to connect the dots, so that I didn't have a problem with. At that age, what is important for them to understand is that what they think can be different from what someone else thinks and it being different is ok. While maybe not worded the best, that's what I took from the comments. Of course, that's what I also learned in child psychology as well, so this wasn't the first I'd heard these terms talked about together.
ETA: Should also ask if you've heard any of the other interviews they've done with Noem and other "conservative" voices in the last year allowing, what I believe would be acceptable to you, her position be known in terms of this topic? I know Morning Edition has had her and others on several times this year.
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Jayrod
Footballguy
But even the idea that pro-life stances are only based on religious beliefs is a liberal stance. There are a lot of scientific reasons to treat a fetus as fully human and ignoring that is a biased stance.
I don't think to be fair and balanced they need to be quoting Bible verses. They don't explain why people think abortion is acceptable, so why do they have to then explain why people think abortion is unacceptable?
Which is the point. The entire segment ASSUMES that abortion is an acceptable practice. No explanation why (which is fine), but to not even hint or express that a reasonable person could think otherwise is biased. The only thing mentioned is the one guy who said he was raised conservative and his entire family is conservative and he thinks differently than them, so how do you approach that. No credence, validity or representation from that side of the discussion, not one.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Having opinions is fine.
Saying "there is no right or wrong" is not. An opinion is simply that, a current belief, but many many are factually false/wrong/incorrect. Stating there is no such thing as right or wrong is just a bizarre and incorrect statement.
On what is the best color or the best food or what music sounds good? Sure differences of opinion can be celebrated. On whether it is OK to harm another person? Differences of opinion should be addressed and properly molded. Not to belabor the point, but apparently it must be continually addressed; abortion falls much, much closer to the latter set of "opinions" than the first. It is about choosing between life and death and in regards to that there are, in fact, wrong opinions.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Not sure who's making that argument, but I'd like to hear more about it. Before you go there you should know I'm one who's of the opinion that every single position a person holds has a bias of some sort.
The segment was about giving parents tips on how to talk to their kids about abortion when it comes up. It was not intended, at all, to discuss the pros/cons of abortion. You're dinging them for not addressing something that wasn't in the scope of the segment in the first place. The segment assumes that kids are coming to parents and talking about abortions.
And as I stated before, when I was growing up having your opinions and understanding they were different from others and that was ok was a HUGE part of "conservative" talk...not sure where that was dropped and I'm the first to admit, I can't even attempt to define what "conservative" is these days.
The Commish
Footballguy
Beliefs go BEYOND what the evidence requires. If they are actually proven one way or the other, they aren't opinions/beliefs...they are facts. If you hold a position contradictory to the facts, you are simply wrong/un/misinformed. And I would also say it's not accurate to use opinion/belief interchangeably.
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The Commish
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
I am curious to hear more about what your issue with this statement is? Seems to me they are leaving room for someone to be pro-life and pro-choice and not casting judgment on either
Agreed. YouTube videos on almost any topic are infuriating, in that I can read at least four times faster than most people talk.
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