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NYJ OC Nathaniel Hackett - New Frontiers In NFL Nepotism (1 Viewer)

I didn’t watch the game so excuse me but am I getting this right, Denver runningbacks fumble twice on the goal line and you want to fire the coach for attempting a field goal in the waning seconds to win the game?
No, you aren't getting this right. You didn't watch the game, and didn't read this thread
I don't think this thread contains much rational assessment but, yeah Hackett choked early and often. Russ looked very out of sorts as well. After this long I think his ability to know how much time is on the play clock would be more finely tuned.
 
He should be fired. After one game, yes. He is the worst coach in the league by default already, and I would bet he has already lost a lot of the fanbase. After one game. No wonder Brady and Belichick dominated for two decades when they were together. Idiot coaches everywhere in this league.
He shouldn’t be fired after one game but his leash just got shorter. It’s disturbing that based on his responses in the post game press conference he would make the same decision to kick.
 
He should be fired. After one game, yes. He is the worst coach in the league by default already, and I would bet he has already lost a lot of the fanbase. After one game. No wonder Brady and Belichick dominated for two decades when they were together. Idiot coaches everywhere in this league.
He shouldn’t be fired after one game but his leash just got shorter. It’s disturbing that based on his responses in the post game press conference he would make the same decision to kick.
Like just own it already.
 
My analogy for Hacketts decision to kick is this. You have pick 7 in your fantasy draft and are determined to take Dalvin Cook. Shockingly J Taylor falls to you but you still pick Cook because that’s what your focused on. you never considered that Taylor may fall. I think Hackett was thinking get as close to the 40 as possible and kick. He obviously didn’t consider his options when they only got to the 45. At least call a time out and think about it.
 
I didn’t watch the game so excuse me but am I getting this right, Denver runningbacks fumble twice on the goal line and you want to fire the coach for attempting a field goal in the waning seconds to win the game?
Watch the replay.

Second fumble happened because the play came in late and Russ couldn't get everyone set in time. That was a very common theme.

I don't think you fire Hackett after that, and I think people who believe that are reactionary and childish. But last night Hackett let the moment be too big for him and he made a ton of errors.
Talking about the second fumble this morning on talk radio. They changed the play. Some of the line was pass blocking because that was the original call couldn't hear the call play change.
 
For the pass few weeks the talking heads who were former players have been saying they wouldn't be surprised if the way Hackett ran camp blew up in his face the first week.
 
He should be fired. After one game, yes. He is the worst coach in the league by default already, and I would bet he has already lost a lot of the fanbase. After one game. No wonder Brady and Belichick dominated for two decades when they were together. Idiot coaches everywhere in this league.
He shouldn’t be fired after one game but his leash just got shorter. It’s disturbing that based on his responses in the post game press conference he would make the same decision to kick.

He should be fired. After one game, yes. He is the worst coach in the league by default already, and I would bet he has already lost a lot of the fanbase. After one game. No wonder Brady and Belichick dominated for two decades when they were together. Idiot coaches everywhere in this league.
He shouldn’t be fired after one game but his leash just got shorter. It’s disturbing that based on his responses in the post game press conference he would make the same decision to kick.
Like just own it already.
Absolutely. IMO, doubling down on being wrong doesn't win you any points with the fans, the players or ownership.
 
I didn’t watch the game so excuse me but am I getting this right, Denver runningbacks fumble twice on the goal line and you want to fire the coach for attempting a field goal in the waning seconds to win the game?
Watch the replay.

Second fumble happened because the play came in late and Russ couldn't get everyone set in time. That was a very common theme.

I don't think you fire Hackett after that, and I think people who believe that are reactionary and childish. But last night Hackett let the moment be too big for him and he made a ton of errors.
Talking about the second fumble this morning on talk radio. They changed the play. Some of the line was pass blocking because that was the original call couldn't hear the call play change.
Thanks for that. Was that insiders or radio guys. It completely makes sense but, again both Russ & Hackett should have been prepared for the crown noise. One way to do that is get the play calls in as quickly as possible and get set as quickly as possible so you can make sure your everyone knows when you make the kill call.
 
He should be fired. After one game, yes. He is the worst coach in the league by default already, and I would bet he has already lost a lot of the fanbase. After one game. No wonder Brady and Belichick dominated for two decades when they were together. Idiot coaches everywhere in this league.
He shouldn’t be fired after one game but his leash just got shorter. It’s disturbing that based on his responses in the post game press conference he would make the same decision to kick.

He should be fired. After one game, yes. He is the worst coach in the league by default already, and I would bet he has already lost a lot of the fanbase. After one game. No wonder Brady and Belichick dominated for two decades when they were together. Idiot coaches everywhere in this league.
He shouldn’t be fired after one game but his leash just got shorter. It’s disturbing that based on his responses in the post game press conference he would make the same decision to kick.
Like just own it already.
Absolutely. IMO, doubling down on being wrong doesn't win you any points with the fans, the players or ownership.
Going into that press conference he had two choices, double down or admit his error. He again made the wrong choice. As a Bronco fan I thought he was a goofball in the first place. Now I don’t trust he will make the right decisions in the future. He has created a perception of himself that will invite a lot of future criticism whether deserved or not.
 
My analogy for Hacketts decision to kick is this. You have pick 7 in your fantasy draft and are determined to take Dalvin Cook. Shockingly J Taylor falls to you but you still pick Cook because that’s what your focused on. you never considered that Taylor may fall. I think Hackett was thinking get as close to the 40 as possible and kick. He obviously didn’t consider his options when they only got to the 45. At least call a time out and think about it.
Not only did he call a timeout, Pete Carroll also called a timeout. So he had TWO timeouts to think about it and he still kicked it.
 
At the end of the day, the coach is to blame here. But I have to lay some blame on Wilson here too. Dude just sat there like a dope while his dummy coach let 30 seconds run off the clock forcing a 64 yard FG. You're a 9x pro bowler and super bowl champ. He has to know better as well. (just like he should have when they didn't just hand to Beast Mode in the super bowl....but at least he had the excuse that he was 24 years old at that point)
Agree with this take. Particularly seeing how pained Peyton was watching it.
 
My analogy for Hacketts decision to kick is this. You have pick 7 in your fantasy draft and are determined to take Dalvin Cook. Shockingly J Taylor falls to you but you still pick Cook because that’s what your focused on. you never considered that Taylor may fall. I think Hackett was thinking get as close to the 40 as possible and kick. He obviously didn’t consider his options when they only got to the 45. At least call a time out and think about it.
He explained it as the exact opposite. He said that the plan was to go for it on 4th down, but when Javonte got them closer than he expected, he pivoted and went for the FG.
 
I didn’t watch the game so excuse me but am I getting this right, Denver runningbacks fumble twice on the goal line and you want to fire the coach for attempting a field goal in the waning seconds to win the game?

RB fumbles don't have do anything to do with the coach's decision at the end. He opted for a 64-yard FG attempt rather than go for it on 4th and 5.

All of the analytics confirm what most of us knew at the time, that the odds are much better of converting the 4th and 5
 
I didn’t watch the game so excuse me but am I getting this right, Denver runningbacks fumble twice on the goal line and you want to fire the coach for attempting a field goal in the waning seconds to win the game?

RB fumbles don't have do anything to do with the coach's decision at the end. He opted for a 64-yard FG attempt rather than go for it on 4th and 5.

All of the analytics confirm what most of us knew at the time, that the odds are much better of converting the 4th and 5
And if they picked up the first down, It's at the LONGEST, a 59 yarder for the win... but you have tons of time and downs to get it even closer
 
I didn’t watch the game so excuse me but am I getting this right, Denver runningbacks fumble twice on the goal line and you want to fire the coach for attempting a field goal in the waning seconds to win the game?
Watch the replay.

Second fumble happened because the play came in late and Russ couldn't get everyone set in time. That was a very common theme.

I don't think you fire Hackett after that, and I think people who believe that are reactionary and childish. But last night Hackett let the moment be too big for him and he made a ton of errors.
Talking about the second fumble this morning on talk radio. They changed the play. Some of the line was pass blocking because that was the original call couldn't hear the call play change.
Thanks for that. Was that insiders or radio guys. It completely makes sense but, again both Russ & Hackett should have been prepared for the crown noise. One way to do that is get the play calls in as quickly as possible and get set as quickly as possible so you can make sure your everyone knows when you make the kill call.
Radio guys now, but former players. 104.3 the fan has 6 or 7 former Bronco players working full time radio guys.
 
My analogy for Hacketts decision to kick is this. You have pick 7 in your fantasy draft and are determined to take Dalvin Cook. Shockingly J Taylor falls to you but you still pick Cook because that’s what your focused on. you never considered that Taylor may fall. I think Hackett was thinking get as close to the 40 as possible and kick. He obviously didn’t consider his options when they only got to the 45. At least call a time out and think about it.
Not only did he call a timeout, Pete Carroll also called a timeout. So he had TWO timeouts to think about it and he still kicked it.
Don't forget he also got to watch McManus miss badly on Pete Carroll's time out.
 
My analogy for Hacketts decision to kick is this. You have pick 7 in your fantasy draft and are determined to take Dalvin Cook. Shockingly J Taylor falls to you but you still pick Cook because that’s what your focused on. you never considered that Taylor may fall. I think Hackett was thinking get as close to the 40 as possible and kick. He obviously didn’t consider his options when they only got to the 45. At least call a time out and think about it.
He explained it as the exact opposite. He said that the plan was to go for it on 4th down, but when Javonte got them closer than he expected, he pivoted and went for the FG.
I misunderstood him the first time. Disregard the analogy.
 
My analogy for Hacketts decision to kick is this. You have pick 7 in your fantasy draft and are determined to take Dalvin Cook. Shockingly J Taylor falls to you but you still pick Cook because that’s what your focused on. you never considered that Taylor may fall. I think Hackett was thinking get as close to the 40 as possible and kick. He obviously didn’t consider his options when they only got to the 45. At least call a time out and think about it.
Not only did he call a timeout, Pete Carroll also called a timeout. So he had TWO timeouts to think about it and he still kicked it.
Don't forget he also got to watch McManus miss badly on Pete Carroll's time out.
Weird. No clue when they don't take a timeout there then and discuss it.

I think he missed a big chance for a big intangible win by putting the game on Wilson's shoulders. Even if Wilson fails, in the press conference the coach can say "we believe we have one the best QBs and winners in this league. I put the game in his hands 10/10 times. What else would you have wanted me to do? Burn more than half a minute and try the longest FG in NFL history?"
 
The best part is McManus was 0-5 in his career on kicks of 62+. Not like this was a kicker with some kind of track record nailing these things.
 
The best part is McManus was 0-5 in his career on kicks of 62+. Not like this was a kicker with some kind of track record nailing these things.
There's a kicker with a track record of nailing 62+ kicks?*



*McManus has a plenty of leg and no issue with trotting him out there with less than 5 seconds on the clock.
 
My analogy for Hacketts decision to kick is this. You have pick 7 in your fantasy draft and are determined to take Dalvin Cook. Shockingly J Taylor falls to you but you still pick Cook because that’s what your focused on. you never considered that Taylor may fall. I think Hackett was thinking get as close to the 40 as possible and kick. He obviously didn’t consider his options when they only got to the 45. At least call a time out and think about it.
Not only did he call a timeout, Pete Carroll also called a timeout. So he had TWO timeouts to think about it and he still kicked it.
Don't forget he also got to watch McManus miss badly on Pete Carroll's time out.
Weird. No clue when they don't take a timeout there then and discuss it.

I think he missed a big chance for a big intangible win by putting the game on Wilson's shoulders. Even if Wilson fails, in the press conference the coach can say "we believe we have one the best QBs and winners in this league. I put the game in his hands 10/10 times. What else would you have wanted me to do? Burn more than half a minute and try the longest FG in NFL history?"
That's pretty much it around here. We got Russell Wilson to win games like this not watch a kicker miss 64 yd field goals.
 
Even if they make that kick there still would have been time on the clock and they would only be up by 2.
C’mon. Would have been 10 seconds or so
"a FG takes 6 seconds"
for those who watched the Manningcast in the first half :biggrin:

I do want to point out, McManus kicked the crap out of the ball both on the practice kick and on the real kick that was just left. Distance was no issue. I had no idea he had that kind of leg. Still a terrible decision, of course. I was just impressed with that.
 
The best part is McManus was 0-5 in his career on kicks of 62+. Not like this was a kicker with some kind of track record nailing these things.
There's a kicker with a track record of nailing 62+ kicks?*



*McManus has a plenty of leg and no issue with trotting him out there with less than 5 seconds on the clock.
Justin Tucker maybe. I also have no issue running McManus out with 5 seconds left to kick. The issue here is the Broncos were the ones who chose to have 5 seconds on the clock. They could have had like 50 seconds on the clock and tried to get more yards. They had 3 TOs!
 
You trade your entire future for Wilson, and then try that kick? And then in a state of total delirium no doubt start calling time outs when Geno is taking knees.....absolute gong show. AFC West will come down to 1 win somewhere and he just coughed on his shoes.
As far as Russ, this is the same type of game Seattle fans have been watching for 10 years. There was no one holding him back....the results were in his favour in the first 7 years, and more like this the last 3....he's not the same guy. Missed Jeudy crossing that would have made it a chip shot.
I'm not worried about Russ. I figured it would take a few games before they started to get it going. I'm more concerned about the defensive performance.
The defense gave up 0 points and 40 yards in the second half. The defense wasn't the problem.
 
The part I'm not clear on - what are the chances of converting a 4th and 5 AND THEN making a 50-59 yard kick?

It was a botched end of the game. particularly time management. But with a bit of reflection, at the point of the timeout was the kick actually a mistake?

Making up numbers here (I don't have odds for the 4th and 5), but let's say you have a 50% chance of converting 4th. McManus is a 50% kicker at 50+ (although that % is likely lower at Seattle vs. Mile High). So let's say converting 4th + 50+ kick = 25%. McManus is also a 20% kicker (1/5) at 60+.

Don't get me wrong, Hackett's a game management idiot. But I think the odds at that point were not as skewed as it first seems.
 
The best part is McManus was 0-5 in his career on kicks of 62+. Not like this was a kicker with some kind of track record nailing these things.
There's a kicker with a track record of nailing 62+ kicks?*



*McManus has a plenty of leg and no issue with trotting him out there with less than 5 seconds on the clock.
Justin Tucker maybe. I also have no issue running McManus out with 5 seconds left to kick. The issue here is the Broncos were the ones who chose to have 5 seconds on the clock. They could have had like 50 seconds on the clock and tried to get more yards. They had 3 TOs!
For sure. Don't disagree with any of it. I was more so poking fun at your suggestion that some kickers have track records kicking 62+ yard FGs.

I agree that Tucker is probably top tier. But I'd put McManus in the second tier with probably Prater.
 
The part I'm not clear on - what are the chances of converting a 4th and 5 AND THEN making a 50-59 yard kick?

It was a botched end of the game. particularly time management. But with a bit of reflection, at the point of the timeout was the kick actually a mistake?

Making up numbers here (I don't have odds for the 4th and 5), but let's say you have a 50% chance of converting 4th. McManus is a 50% kicker at 50+ (although that % is likely lower at Seattle vs. Mile High). So let's say converting 4th + 50+ kick = 25%. McManus is also a 20% kicker (1/5) at 60+.

Don't get me wrong, Hackett's a game management idiot. But I think the odds at that point were not as skewed as it first seems.
With one minute left and multiple timeouts I think you're failing to factor in that a successful 4th down conversion gives them significant more opportunity to get much closer than a 50-59 yarder.
 
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The game clock management, every damn play starting at :00 or close to it, the horrific play calls in the red zone, etc had me furious. I lost it when I saw they were going to kick the FG after wasting 25+ seconds. You send considerable draft capital/players for Wilson and then sign him to a $200M contract and you decide your best option is an NFL league tying FG at sea level, with a kicker who is 1-7 at 60+ yards, instead of trying to convert a 4th and 5 with 45+ seconds left?

Stupidity.
 
The best part is McManus was 0-5 in his career on kicks of 62+. Not like this was a kicker with some kind of track record nailing these things.
There's a kicker with a track record of nailing 62+ kicks?*



*McManus has a plenty of leg and no issue with trotting him out there with less than 5 seconds on the clock.
Justin Tucker maybe. I also have no issue running McManus out with 5 seconds left to kick. The issue here is the Broncos were the ones who chose to have 5 seconds on the clock. They could have had like 50 seconds on the clock and tried to get more yards. They had 3 TOs!
This exactly. Totally self-inflicted.
 
The part I'm not clear on - what are the chances of converting a 4th and 5 AND THEN making a 50-59 yard kick?

It was a botched end of the game. particularly time management. But with a bit of reflection, at the point of the timeout was the kick actually a mistake?

Making up numbers here (I don't have odds for the 4th and 5), but let's say you have a 50% chance of converting 4th. McManus is a 50% kicker at 50+ (although that % is likely lower at Seattle vs. Mile High). So let's say converting 4th + 50+ kick = 25%. McManus is also a 20% kicker (1/5) at 60+.

Don't get me wrong, Hackett's a game management idiot. But I think the odds at that point were not as skewed as it first seems.
With one minute left and multiple timeouts I think you're failing to factor in that a successful 4th down conversion gives them significant more opportunity to get much closer than a 50-59 yarder.

No question. They could've called a timeout with a minute left.

I"m saying at the point they got to 20 seconds left. In terms of the management of the entire drive, particularly the last minute, no question Hackett was atrocious.
 
The part I'm not clear on - what are the chances of converting a 4th and 5 AND THEN making a 50-59 yard kick?

It was a botched end of the game. particularly time management. But with a bit of reflection, at the point of the timeout was the kick actually a mistake?

Making up numbers here (I don't have odds for the 4th and 5), but let's say you have a 50% chance of converting 4th. McManus is a 50% kicker at 50+ (although that % is likely lower at Seattle vs. Mile High). So let's say converting 4th + 50+ kick = 25%. McManus is also a 20% kicker (1/5) at 60+.

Don't get me wrong, Hackett's a game management idiot. But I think the odds at that point were not as skewed as it first seems.
With one minute left and multiple timeouts I think you're failing to factor in that a successful 4th down conversion gives them significant more opportunity to get much closer than a 50-59 yarder.

No question. They could've called a timeout with a minute left.

I"m saying at the point they got to 20 seconds left. In terms of the management of the entire drive, particularly the last minute, no question Hackett was atrocious.
Ah, gotcha. Then yeah I think in that situation it's a closer call. I tend to offhand agree that converting the first down is probably 50/50. Would then need the statistics on the odds of making the 64 yarder versus a 54 to complete the analysis.

But, that's purely a numbers analysis. I do think there's a viable intrinsic factor to consider of, in Wilson's first game, putting it on his shoulders.
 
The game clock management, every damn play starting at :00 or close to it, the horrific play calls in the red zone, etc had me furious. I lost it when I saw they were going to kick the FG after wasting 25+ seconds. You send considerable draft capital/players for Wilson and then sign him to a $200M contract and you decide your best option is an NFL league tying FG at sea level, with a kicker who is 1-7 at 60+ yards, instead of trying to convert a 4th and 5 with 45+ seconds left?

Stupidity.
Just now on the radio. Wilson is 68% on converting 4th and 5.
 
I think the bad coaching goes well beyond the final drive (I only read this thread so I apologize if this has been covered).

How many times did they have delay of game penalties or snap the ball at 0. The communication seemed off all night. Letting the clock go down to close to zero allows the defenders to get off their rush faster because they can see the clock as well. Denver kept shooting themselves in the foot. I was watching the Manningcast during the end of the game and Peyton seemed shocked how they were handling the last minute of the game. As many have pointed out they could have gotten much closer and made the field goal a lot easier. Even if the game was being played in the Denver air it is still a lot easier to kick a closer field goal. I would have gone for it.
 
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I think the bad coaching goes well beyond the final drive (I only read this thread so I apologize if this has been covered).

How many times did they have delay of game penalties or snap the ball at 0. The communication seemed off all night. Letting the clock go down to close to zero allows the defenders to get off their rush faster because they can see the clock as well. Denver kept shooting themselves in the foot. I was watching the Manningcast during the end of the game and Peyton seemed shocked how they were handling the last minute of the game. As many have pointed out they could have gotten much closer and made the field goal a lot easier. Even in the Denver air it is still a lot easier to kick a closer field goal. I would have gone for it.
Now imagine the game was played in Seattle...
 
Some people clearly didn't watch this game.

The decision to run the clock and kick the ball, was only the final questionable coaching move of the game. If that kick is made, and Denver won, Hackett still did a terrible job.
 
The game clock management, every damn play starting at :00 or close to it, the horrific play calls in the red zone, etc had me furious. I lost it when I saw they were going to kick the FG after wasting 25+ seconds. You send considerable draft capital/players for Wilson and then sign him to a $200M contract and you decide your best option is an NFL league tying FG at sea level, with a kicker who is 1-7 at 60+ yards, instead of trying to convert a 4th and 5 with 45+ seconds left?

Stupidity.
Just now on the radio. Wilson is 68% on converting 4th and 5.
What's the sample size?
 
I think the bad coaching goes well beyond the final drive (I only read this thread so I apologize if this has been covered).

How many times did they have delay of game penalties or snap the ball at 0. The communication seemed off all night. Letting the clock go down to close to zero allows the defenders to get off their rush faster because they can see the clock as well. Denver kept shooting themselves in the foot. I was watching the Manningcast during the end of the game and Peyton seemed shocked how they were handling the last minute of the game. As many have pointed out they could have gotten much closer and made the field goal a lot easier. Even in the Denver air it is still a lot easier to kick a closer field goal. I would have gone for it.
Now imagine the game was played in Seattle...
I meant that I would try to get the ball closer to kick the field game even if it were being played in Denver. I was typing fast and just re-read and it looks like I left out a few words - oops! :)
 
In their coaching debuts, Nathaniel Hackett was oozing scared ... with Russell Wilson. Mike McDaniel was oozing confidence ... with Tua!

He's a big weed guy, no? Probably coaches with his hands a little looser on the bat than the others gripping too tight.
 
For sure. Don't disagree with any of it. I was more so poking fun at your suggestion that some kickers have track records kicking 62+ yard FGs.

I agree that Tucker is probably top tier. But I'd put McManus in the second tier with probably Prater.
Ok wasn’t sure if you maybe somehow missed the context. I’m not saying any K is even close to automatic at that range. But maybe he was 50% career or even 33% you can make some kind of rationalization for it.
 
The speculation this summer was the Broncos targeted Hacket to help lure Aaron Rodgers to Denver. When that fell through, of course the company line was - "this is our guy, had nothing to do with Rodgers!" Whether that's true or not, the feeling in Green Bay has always been that he's a quality guy so I wouldn't worry too much if I were a Bronco. Denver dominated that game but for the killer fumbles and penalties.
 

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