Obama can end all deportation of illegal immigrants by himself (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Here's is the mayor of Los Angeles' plan for immigration reform. Interested to know if posters here approve or disapprove. This is going to be one of THE main political topics of discussion in the coming months:http://dyn.politico....90-2A42A2F5363BIt was March of 2006. On that afternoon over one million undocumented immigrants marched on Los Angeles City Hall. For one day, one million people stepped out of the shadows – mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, grandmas and grandpas. They were hardworking people who are always told that they are to blame for the country's problems.They marched on City Hall to deliver a simple message – "This is our home now." I walked out and welcomed the one million people who showed up on my doorstep. I looked out on the crowd – a mayor for less than one year – and told them "I don't see any illegals! No human being is illegal. No human being should be illegal." They may have come here illegally, but they also came for a better life and most have contributed much to this nation.I took a lot of heat for that. But an immigration policy that allows us to grow together and not apart is the moral and economic imperative of our time.For too long Washington has pushed immigration reform off until the next election. Too often, the issue is punted to the next Congress. Now is the time for us to say enough is enough. When we reform our broken immigration system, we will not only restore the most basic of American covenants, we will give this economy a much needed shot in the arm.When the head of a household becomes a citizen, family income rises almost 14 percent on average. For the 11 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. that would generate over $1.5 trillion in the next decade. And for the federal government that would mean $4.5 billion in new tax revenue over the next three years alone.But the long-term effects are even greater. Today, 40 percent of Fortune 500 companies were started by immigrants or by the children of immigrants. These companies have combined revenues of $4.2 trillion. For those keeping score that's more than the GDP of every country in the world except the U.S., China and Japan.The success of our immigration system goes hand in hand with the success of our broader economy. That's why the time to act is now. Our action should be based on our core principles and values, through six broad policy pillars:One – A pathway to legal permanent residency and citizenship for the 11 million undocumented immigrants must be at the core of reform.Two – Legalization should be earned, but not unattainable – a process not a punishment. You should have to go through a criminal background check, learn English, and pay back taxes.Three – Family unification should continue as a key priority of our immigration policy. The goal must be to protect the sanctity of the family. Keeping families together not only keeps capital in the United States, it also maximizes the potential that these immigrants start family-based small businesses and grow our economy. Despite the economic benefits and moral imperative, millions wait over two decades to be reunited with family members. This must change.Four – The hard work and talent of immigrants fuels our economy. Our immigration policy must expand the avenues for these valued workers to seek legal employment. As the president has suggested, let's staple a green card to the diplomas of foreign students getting advanced degrees in science, technology, engineering and math. We need to expand the H1-B visa program and, at the same time, we need effective visa programs for agricultural workers and for low-skilled, non-seasonal workers.Five – Immigration reform must include an effective and efficient employment verification system. Such a system can and must prevent unlawful employment, reward those employers and employees who play by the rules and protect Americans' fundamental rights.Six – We must protect our border through smart enforcement. According to the Migration Policy Institute, immigration enforcement takes the lion's share of federal law enforcement spending. Today, net undocumented migration is at or below zero. It's time we realize that we will not meet our immigration challenge through enforcement alone.Based upon these principles and pillars, let's make 2013 the year when we welcome 11 million people out of the shadows. Let's make 2013 the year that we all agree immigrants don't deserve half a handshake – they deserve a full embrace.After all, the American Dream doesn't just belong to some of us. It belongs to all of us.

 

[Card Trader]

Can we call him Tony Villar, not what he changed his name to to pander to the Latino vote, please?

 

[timschochet]

One – A pathway to legal permanent residency and citizenship for the 11 million undocumented immigrants must be at the core of reform.

This is really the central point of the discussion. And whether it gets done or not depends on whether there are enough Republicans this time around to vote for it. Obama and the Democrats want this to happen, but I fear that they wouldn't mind it if the Republicans stopped it again, either- it serves the Democrats well to have this question as a lingering issue for years to come, so that the GOP can be hammered by Latino voters again and again. Remove this issue from the equation, and Latino voters have no particular reason to vote Democrat. Republican leaders and the GOP establishment get this. But the base of the Republican party, and especially the House Republicans and Tea Party, remain staunchly opposed to any sort of path to citizenship for illegal immigrants; they equate that with amnesty. So right now it remains an open question if anything will get done.

 

[Mello]

No, don't support it, but honestly I give up now. The previous generation screwed this one up to the point that there's enough Latinos that are now legal that what I want will never happen. The damage is already done, so this is probably better than nothing. All hail the mighty GDP and screw any American actually needing manual work at a wage that can support a family.

 

[timschochet]

Can we call him Tony Villar, not what he changed his name to to pander to the Latino vote, please?

This is Hollywood out here. People change their names all the time. Just ask Ron Artest...

 

[NCCommish]

Can we call him Tony Villar, not what he changed his name to to pander to the Latino vote, please?

Actually he was born Antonio Ramón Villar, Jr. His wife and he merged their last names for some reason. If you want to hate on the guy though hate on him for screwing around on his wife while she was dealing with cancer. He will never get to a national office and I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

 

[NCCommish]

As for his "plan" that's pretty boiler plate with little in the way of specifics. I guess in general it's all right.

 

[-jb-]

So what happens to all of the people that decided it was wrong to come into the country illegally, and instead filed the paperwork and are waiting to hear something...knowing that it takes years. They just take a back seat to all of the people who broke the law right? That's cool.

 

[Gr00vus]

We need to expand the H1-B visa program

Opposite of this. Unless you enjoy a race to the bottom.

 

[Gr00vus]

I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

If this kind of immigration reform gets passed he'll probably be governor until another Latino challenges him for office.

 

[NCCommish]

I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

If this kind of immigration reform gets passed he'll probably be governor until another Latino challenges him for office.

We'll see. Despite voting heavily democratic, because the GOP is insane, Latin immigrants tend to be socially fairly conservative. Mayor V is basically John Edwards part 2. I am not sure he can win against any candidate once it moves to a statewide race and the money starts pouring into attack ads.

 

[RCon]

As for his "plan" that's pretty boiler plate with little in the way of specifics. I guess in general it's all right.

Yeah, I don't think I saw an actual plan in there anywhere.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Can we call him Tony Villar, not what he changed his name to to pander to the Latino vote, please?

Actually he was born Antonio Ramón Villar, Jr. His wife and he merged their last names for some reason. If you want to hate on the guy though hate on him for screwing around on his wife while she was dealing with cancer. He will never get to a national office and I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

What is it with politicians cheating on their wives suffering from cancer?

 

[Gr00vus]

I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

If this kind of immigration reform gets passed he'll probably be governor until another Latino challenges him for office.

We'll see. Despite voting heavily democratic, because the GOP is insane, Latin immigrants tend to be socially fairly conservative. Mayor V is basically John Edwards part 2. I am not sure he can win against any candidate once it moves to a statewide race and the money starts pouring into attack ads.

You think that if he runs against the typical Republican Caucasian, while all these new citizens will have him to thank at least indirectly for their new status, he'll lose? The R's here coughed up a Meg Whitman hairball last go round, they're not exactly swimming in formidable candidates, and the R's in cali aren't moderates, they're closer to Tea Party - I'd be shocked if they could get a Latino candidate through to the general election.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I like how he treats illegal and legal immigrants as the same thing throughout his speech. He brings up all kinds of great things that immigrants have done but virtually all those things were done by legal immigrants. It completely ignores the very real possibility/probability that there are very real differences in the personalities and nature of people who are willing to take the longer harder legal route and those that take the easier, shorter and less forward thinking illegal path.Any of those proposals are really just a stepping stone to total open borders which is what the proponents of these ideas really want anyway. They just know that if they frame it that way they'll never get public support for it so they attempt to backdoor it..

 

[SacramentoBob]

I like how he treats illegal and legal immigrants as the same thing throughout his speech. He brings up all kinds of great things that immigrants have done but virtually all those things were done by legal immigrants. It completely ignores the very real possibility/probability that there are very real differences in the personalities and nature of people who are willing to take the longer harder legal route and those that take the easier, shorter and less forward thinking illegal path.

Any of those proposals are really just a stepping stone to total open borders which is what the proponents of these ideas really want anyway. They just know that if they frame it that way they'll never get public support for it so they attempt to backdoor it..

Looks like it's working out pretty well.

 

[timschochet]

I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

If this kind of immigration reform gets passed he'll probably be governor until another Latino challenges him for office.

We'll see. Despite voting heavily democratic, because the GOP is insane, Latin immigrants tend to be socially fairly conservative. Mayor V is basically John Edwards part 2. I am not sure he can win against any candidate once it moves to a statewide race and the money starts pouring into attack ads.

You think that if he runs against the typical Republican Caucasian, while all these new citizens will have him to thank at least indirectly for their new status, he'll lose? The R's here coughed up a Meg Whitman hairball last go round, they're not exactly swimming in formidable candidates, and the R's in cali aren't moderates, they're closer to Tea Party - I'd be shocked if they could get a Latino candidate through to the general election.

This is not necessarily true. It depends on the region. I've found that Republicans who live in or near the big metropolises tend to be more moderate- same as the rest of the country.

 

[NCCommish]

I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

If this kind of immigration reform gets passed he'll probably be governor until another Latino challenges him for office.

We'll see. Despite voting heavily democratic, because the GOP is insane, Latin immigrants tend to be socially fairly conservative. Mayor V is basically John Edwards part 2. I am not sure he can win against any candidate once it moves to a statewide race and the money starts pouring into attack ads.

You think that if he runs against the typical Republican Caucasian, while all these new citizens will have him to thank at least indirectly for their new status, he'll lose? The R's here coughed up a Meg Whitman hairball last go round, they're not exactly swimming in formidable candidates, and the R's in cali aren't moderates, they're closer to Tea Party - I'd be shocked if they could get a Latino candidate through to the general election.

I think he loses the primary to another Democrat. I doubt seriously he will get to run unopposed.

 

[whoknew]

Two – Legalization should be earned, but not unattainable – a process not a punishment. You should have to go through a criminal background check, learn English, and pay back taxes.

Why is that included?

 

[Gr00vus]

I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

If this kind of immigration reform gets passed he'll probably be governor until another Latino challenges him for office.

We'll see. Despite voting heavily democratic, because the GOP is insane, Latin immigrants tend to be socially fairly conservative. Mayor V is basically John Edwards part 2. I am not sure he can win against any candidate once it moves to a statewide race and the money starts pouring into attack ads.

You think that if he runs against the typical Republican Caucasian, while all these new citizens will have him to thank at least indirectly for their new status, he'll lose? The R's here coughed up a Meg Whitman hairball last go round, they're not exactly swimming in formidable candidates, and the R's in cali aren't moderates, they're closer to Tea Party - I'd be shocked if they could get a Latino candidate through to the general election.

This is not necessarily true. It depends on the region. I've found that Republicans who live in or near the big metropolises tend to be more moderate- same as the rest of the country.

Do they make up a majority of the party in California, or is it the 909ers and the San Joaquin Valley folks?

 

[timschochet]

I like how he treats illegal and legal immigrants as the same thing throughout his speech. He brings up all kinds of great things that immigrants have done but virtually all those things were done by legal immigrants. It completely ignores the very real possibility/probability that there are very real differences in the personalities and nature of people who are willing to take the longer harder legal route and those that take the easier, shorter and less forward thinking illegal path.Any of those proposals are really just a stepping stone to total open borders which is what the proponents of these ideas really want anyway. They just know that if they frame it that way they'll never get public support for it so they attempt to backdoor it..

First off, the notion that it is somehow "easier" to be an illegal immigrant is absurd. These people risk their lives to come here. I am not detracting in any way from those who have the ability to come here legally- good for them. But there is this notion that people with your viewpoint spread around that somehow there is this "line" that everybody gets to wait in, and illegal immigrants jump to the front of it. That's a complete fiction; there is no line for the vast majority of illegals. The only way they can get here is the way they do. Second, I am in favor of open immigration (not open borders- these often get confused but they're not the same thing) much as we had before the 1920s. But my views are extreme on this issue, and it would be incorrect to think that most people who support immigration reform are in favor of what I want- they're not.

 

[timschochet]

I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

If this kind of immigration reform gets passed he'll probably be governor until another Latino challenges him for office.

We'll see. Despite voting heavily democratic, because the GOP is insane, Latin immigrants tend to be socially fairly conservative. Mayor V is basically John Edwards part 2. I am not sure he can win against any candidate once it moves to a statewide race and the money starts pouring into attack ads.

You think that if he runs against the typical Republican Caucasian, while all these new citizens will have him to thank at least indirectly for their new status, he'll lose? The R's here coughed up a Meg Whitman hairball last go round, they're not exactly swimming in formidable candidates, and the R's in cali aren't moderates, they're closer to Tea Party - I'd be shocked if they could get a Latino candidate through to the general election.

This is not necessarily true. It depends on the region. I've found that Republicans who live in or near the big metropolises tend to be more moderate- same as the rest of the country.

Do they make up a majority of the party in California, or is it the 909ers and the San Joaquin Valley folks?

If the Tea Party were running things, Meg Whitman would never have emerged as the candidate for governor. Nor Arnold for that matter.

 

[timschochet]

Two – Legalization should be earned, but not unattainable – a process not a punishment. You should have to go through a criminal background check, learn English, and pay back taxes.

Why is that included?

I'm not sure why HE would include it, but I would. I think it's beneficial to our society to encourage English among immigrants.

 

[Mello]

So what happens to all of the people that decided it was wrong to come into the country illegally, and instead filed the paperwork and are waiting to hear something...knowing that it takes years. They just take a back seat to all of the people who broke the law right? That's cool.

They already have. This doesn't change that.

 

[17seconds]

I don't know the LA mayor's politics that well, but I'm surprised that learning English is in there. Isn't he against English as an official language?

 

[NCCommish]

Two – Legalization should be earned, but not unattainable – a process not a punishment. You should have to go through a criminal background check, learn English, and pay back taxes.

Why is that included?

I'm not sure why HE would include it, but I would. I think it's beneficial to our society to encourage English among immigrants.

But it's a non-issue. We already know that first gen immigrants have a hard time with the new language. We find that their kids speak English just fine. And by the third generation you're lucky if the kids can speak more than a few words of the original language. It was just put there to mollify certain groups.

 

[rascal]

On first glance, I don't see any glaring complaints.

 

[Gr00vus]

I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

If this kind of immigration reform gets passed he'll probably be governor until another Latino challenges him for office.

We'll see. Despite voting heavily democratic, because the GOP is insane, Latin immigrants tend to be socially fairly conservative. Mayor V is basically John Edwards part 2. I am not sure he can win against any candidate once it moves to a statewide race and the money starts pouring into attack ads.

You think that if he runs against the typical Republican Caucasian, while all these new citizens will have him to thank at least indirectly for their new status, he'll lose? The R's here coughed up a Meg Whitman hairball last go round, they're not exactly swimming in formidable candidates, and the R's in cali aren't moderates, they're closer to Tea Party - I'd be shocked if they could get a Latino candidate through to the general election.

This is not necessarily true. It depends on the region. I've found that Republicans who live in or near the big metropolises tend to be more moderate- same as the rest of the country.

Do they make up a majority of the party in California, or is it the 909ers and the San Joaquin Valley folks?

If the Tea Party were running things, Meg Whitman would never have emerged as the candidate for governor. Nor Arnold for that matter.

I said closer to Tea Party, not full Tea Party. Arnold fit perfectly, so did Whitman.

 

[SacramentoBob]

On first glance, I don't see any glaring complaints.

That's because it's a generic plan that seeks not to offend anyone.

 

[-jb-]

So what happens to all of the people that decided it was wrong to come into the country illegally, and instead filed the paperwork and are waiting to hear something...knowing that it takes years. They just take a back seat to all of the people who broke the law right? That's cool.

They already have. This doesn't change that.

Yeah, that's my problem. It should change it, and doesn't.

 

[timschochet]

I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

If this kind of immigration reform gets passed he'll probably be governor until another Latino challenges him for office.

We'll see. Despite voting heavily democratic, because the GOP is insane, Latin immigrants tend to be socially fairly conservative. Mayor V is basically John Edwards part 2. I am not sure he can win against any candidate once it moves to a statewide race and the money starts pouring into attack ads.

You think that if he runs against the typical Republican Caucasian, while all these new citizens will have him to thank at least indirectly for their new status, he'll lose? The R's here coughed up a Meg Whitman hairball last go round, they're not exactly swimming in formidable candidates, and the R's in cali aren't moderates, they're closer to Tea Party - I'd be shocked if they could get a Latino candidate through to the general election.

This is not necessarily true. It depends on the region. I've found that Republicans who live in or near the big metropolises tend to be more moderate- same as the rest of the country.

Do they make up a majority of the party in California, or is it the 909ers and the San Joaquin Valley folks?

If the Tea Party were running things, Meg Whitman would never have emerged as the candidate for governor. Nor Arnold for that matter.

I said closer to Tea Party, not full Tea Party. Arnold fit perfectly, so did Whitman.

If you think Arnold and Whitman fit perfectly as "close to Tea Party", then your understanding is very different than mine.

 

[NCCommish]

I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

If this kind of immigration reform gets passed he'll probably be governor until another Latino challenges him for office.

We'll see. Despite voting heavily democratic, because the GOP is insane, Latin immigrants tend to be socially fairly conservative. Mayor V is basically John Edwards part 2. I am not sure he can win against any candidate once it moves to a statewide race and the money starts pouring into attack ads.

You think that if he runs against the typical Republican Caucasian, while all these new citizens will have him to thank at least indirectly for their new status, he'll lose? The R's here coughed up a Meg Whitman hairball last go round, they're not exactly swimming in formidable candidates, and the R's in cali aren't moderates, they're closer to Tea Party - I'd be shocked if they could get a Latino candidate through to the general election.

This is not necessarily true. It depends on the region. I've found that Republicans who live in or near the big metropolises tend to be more moderate- same as the rest of the country.

Do they make up a majority of the party in California, or is it the 909ers and the San Joaquin Valley folks?

If the Tea Party were running things, Meg Whitman would never have emerged as the candidate for governor. Nor Arnold for that matter.

I said closer to Tea Party, not full Tea Party. Arnold fit perfectly, so did Whitman.

If you think Arnold and Whitman fit perfectly as "close to Tea Party", then your understanding is very different than mine.

Whitman tried real hard to be a Tea Partier. She even went so far as to flirt with birtherism. She never really did move back to the center because of the Tea Party. Now Arnold was definitely not Tea Party material.

 

[Christo]

tim, isn't immigration reform the purview of the Feds? I seem to remember you being upset by the State of Arizona even enforcing immigration law already on the books.

 

[timschochet]

tim, isn't immigration reform the purview of the Feds? I seem to remember you being upset by the State of Arizona even enforcing immigration law already on the books.

Yes. The mayor is presenting ideas, but it would have to be enacted by the federal government.

 

[DCThunder]

Tim, are you in favor of that part of Point 2 where it says "Learn English" and would you then support ending bilingual education etc?And does this plan affect undocumented aliens from countries other than Latin America?

 

[cstu]

We need to expand the H1-B visa program

Opposite of this. Unless you enjoy a race to the bottom.

You think it will destroy the country to bring the world's most talented people here?

 

[NCCommish]

We need to expand the H1-B visa program

Opposite of this. Unless you enjoy a race to the bottom.

You think it will destroy the country to bring the world's most talented people here?

Not to answer for Groovus but too often H1-Bs cost brilliant Americans jobs.

 

[Joe T]

Here's is the mayor of Los Angeles' plan for immigration reform. Interested to know if posters here approve or disapprove. This is going to be one of THE main political topics of discussion in the coming months:

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=347C8062-16A2-40C4-9A90-2A42A2F5363B

It was March of 2006. On that afternoon over one million undocumented immigrants marched on Los Angeles City Hall. For one day, one million people stepped out of the shadows – mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, grandmas and grandpas. They were hardworking people who are always told that they are to blame for the country’s problems.

They marched on City Hall to deliver a simple message – “This is our home now.” I walked out and welcomed the one million people who showed up on my doorstep. I looked out on the crowd – a mayor for less than one year – and told them “I don’t see any illegals! No human being is illegal. No human being should be illegal.” They may have come here illegally, but they also came for a better life and most have contributed much to this nation.

I took a lot of heat for that. But an immigration policy that allows us to grow together and not apart is the moral and economic imperative of our time.

For too long Washington has pushed immigration reform off until the next election. Too often, the issue is punted to the next Congress. Now is the time for us to say enough is enough. When we reform our broken immigration system, we will not only restore the most basic of American covenants, we will give this economy a much needed shot in the arm.

When the head of a household becomes a citizen, family income rises almost 14 percent on average. For the 11 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. that would generate over $1.5 trillion in the next decade. And for the federal government that would mean $4.5 billion in new tax revenue over the next three years alone.

But the long-term effects are even greater. Today, 40 percent of Fortune 500 companies were started by immigrants or by the children of immigrants. These companies have combined revenues of $4.2 trillion. For those keeping score that’s more than the GDP of every country in the world except the U.S., China and Japan.

The success of our immigration system goes hand in hand with the success of our broader economy. That’s why the time to act is now. Our action should be based on our core principles and values, through six broad policy pillars:

One – A pathway to legal permanent residency and citizenship for the 11 million undocumented immigrants must be at the core of reform.

Two – Legalization should be earned, but not unattainable – a process not a punishment. You should have to go through a criminal background check, learn English, and pay back taxes.

Three – Family unification should continue as a key priority of our immigration policy. The goal must be to protect the sanctity of the family. Keeping families together not only keeps capital in the United States, it also maximizes the potential that these immigrants start family-based small businesses and grow our economy. Despite the economic benefits and moral imperative, millions wait over two decades to be reunited with family members. This must change.

Four – The hard work and talent of immigrants fuels our economy. Our immigration policy must expand the avenues for these valued workers to seek legal employment. As the president has suggested, let’s staple a green card to the diplomas of foreign students getting advanced degrees in science, technology, engineering and math. We need to expand the H1-B visa program and, at the same time, we need effective visa programs for agricultural workers and for low-skilled, non-seasonal workers.

Five – Immigration reform must include an effective and efficient employment verification system. Such a system can and must prevent unlawful employment, reward those employers and employees who play by the rules and protect Americans’ fundamental rights.

Six – We must protect our border through smart enforcement. According to the Migration Policy Institute, immigration enforcement takes the lion’s share of federal law enforcement spending. Today, net undocumented migration is at or below zero. It’s time we realize that we will not meet our immigration challenge through enforcement alone.

Based upon these principles and pillars, let’s make 2013 the year when we welcome 11 million people out of the shadows. Let’s make 2013 the year that we all agree immigrants don’t deserve half a handshake – they deserve a full embrace.

After all, the American Dream doesn’t just belong to some of us. It belongs to all of us.

plz stop

 

[Gr00vus]

We need to expand the H1-B visa program

Opposite of this. Unless you enjoy a race to the bottom.

You think it will destroy the country to bring the world's most talented people here?

Not to answer for Groovus but too often H1-Bs cost brilliant Americans jobs.

And cost the U.S wealth as most of these folks are sending a ton of their paycheck back to their country of origin. Not only that, but as often as not those H1-Bs are going home after their term here is over and starting/working at businesses which capitalize on the expertise they gain while here. For the U.S. it's a short term win for the corporations that can have these guys work on the cheap for a brief period of time rather than paying a U.S. worker salary/benefits.

 

[Dexter]

Two – Legalization should be earned, but not unattainable – a process not a punishment. You should have to go through a criminal background check, learn English, and pay back taxes.

Why is that included?

Because English is the official language of most of the countries in... Africa?

 

[timschochet]

Tim, are you in favor of that part of Point 2 where it says "Learn English" and would you then support ending bilingual education etc?And does this plan affect undocumented aliens from countries other than Latin America?

1. I'm not a fan of bilingual education. I want to be careful here as I am not an educator, and I'm not sure what is the best way to get children who don't speak English to do so. My wife was a kindergarten teacher for 8 years, and she is also opposed to bilingual education per se, but I don't know if she is in favor of total immersion. FWIW my dad came to the USA at age 12 and spoke no English at home, and he was immediately tossed into an English speaking classroom in Long Beach, CA, and within 1 year he was fluent. I'm sure this story is pretty common.2. Why not?

 

[drummer]

Tim, are you in favor of that part of Point 2 where it says "Learn English" and would you then support ending bilingual education etc?And does this plan affect undocumented aliens from countries other than Latin America?

1. I'm not a fan of bilingual education. I want to be careful here as I am not an educator, and I'm not sure what is the best way to get children who don't speak English to do so. My wife was a kindergarten teacher for 8 years, and she is also opposed to bilingual education per se, but I don't know if she is in favor of total immersion. FWIW my dad came to the USA at age 12 and spoke no English at home, and he was immediately tossed into an English speaking classroom in Long Beach, CA, and within 1 year he was fluent. I'm sure this story is pretty common.2. Why not?

 

[timschochet]

Tim, are you in favor of that part of Point 2 where it says "Learn English" and would you then support ending bilingual education etc?And does this plan affect undocumented aliens from countries other than Latin America?

1. I'm not a fan of bilingual education. I want to be careful here as I am not an educator, and I'm not sure what is the best way to get children who don't speak English to do so. My wife was a kindergarten teacher for 8 years, and she is also opposed to bilingual education per se, but I don't know if she is in favor of total immersion. FWIW my dad came to the USA at age 12 and spoke no English at home, and he was immediately tossed into an English speaking classroom in Long Beach, CA, and within 1 year he was fluent. I'm sure this story is pretty common.2. Why not?

I know what I write makes people laugh now and then, but what was especially humorous about the above?

 

[cstu]

We need to expand the H1-B visa program

Opposite of this. Unless you enjoy a race to the bottom.

You think it will destroy the country to bring the world's most talented people here?

Not to answer for Groovus but too often H1-Bs cost brilliant Americans jobs.

And cost the U.S wealth as most of these folks are sending a ton of their paycheck back to their country of origin. Not only that, but as often as not those H1-Bs are going home after their term here is over and starting/working at businesses which capitalize on the expertise they gain while here. For the U.S. it's a short term win for the corporations that can have these guys work on the cheap for a brief period of time rather than paying a U.S. worker salary/benefits.

It doesn't seem like they are costing too many jobs:

At its worst in September 2009, the unemployment rate for engineers reached 6.4 percent, versus nearly 10 percent for all occupations. By the middle of last year, it had dropped to under 2 percent. Link

As far as them going back and starting companies they should be given permanent residency after a certain number of years working here to encourage them to stay.

 

[SacramentoBob]

We need to expand the H1-B visa program

Opposite of this. Unless you enjoy a race to the bottom.

You think it will destroy the country to bring the world's most talented people here?

Not to answer for Groovus but too often H1-Bs cost brilliant Americans jobs.

And cost the U.S wealth as most of these folks are sending a ton of their paycheck back to their country of origin. Not only that, but as often as not those H1-Bs are going home after their term here is over and starting/working at businesses which capitalize on the expertise they gain while here. For the U.S. it's a short term win for the corporations that can have these guys work on the cheap for a brief period of time rather than paying a U.S. worker salary/benefits.

It doesn't seem like they are costing too many jobs:

At its worst in September 2009, the unemployment rate for engineers reached 6.4 percent, versus nearly 10 percent for all occupations. By the middle of last year, it had dropped to under 2 percent. Link

As far as them going back and starting companies they should be given permanent residency after a certain number of years working here to encourage them to stay.

They might go back to another country and make it better!!!!

 

[drummer]

Tim, are you in favor of that part of Point 2 where it says "Learn English" and would you then support ending bilingual education etc?

And does this plan affect undocumented aliens from countries other than Latin America?

1. I'm not a fan of bilingual education. I want to be careful here as I am not an educator, and I'm not sure what is the best way to get children who don't speak English to do so. My wife was a kindergarten teacher for 8 years, and she is also opposed to bilingual education per se, but I don't know if she is in favor of total immersion. FWIW my dad came to the USA at age 12 and spoke no English at home, and he was immediately tossed into an English speaking classroom in Long Beach, CA, and within 1 year he was fluent. I'm sure this story is pretty common.2. Why not?

I know what I write makes people laugh now and then, but what was especially humorous about the above?

In Oakland CA not too long ago, they seriously thought the notion of using Ebonics in classrooms because it was the language spoken at home. Your general anecdotal summation really doesn't have any meat here, just the usual tim anecdotal summation. I grew up in a Bilingual family, and I only speak one language fluently. But that didn't start in the classroom, it started at home.

If you're ever in San Francisco, do me a favor and take the 30 Stockton Muni line. There you'll find the real Chinatown, where English is a total second language spoken by many generations, with most of the older generations not having much English speaking skills at all.

ETA: many edits due to the flu screwing with my English.

 

[timschochet]

Tim, are you in favor of that part of Point 2 where it says "Learn English" and would you then support ending bilingual education etc?

And does this plan affect undocumented aliens from countries other than Latin America?

1. I'm not a fan of bilingual education. I want to be careful here as I am not an educator, and I'm not sure what is the best way to get children who don't speak English to do so. My wife was a kindergarten teacher for 8 years, and she is also opposed to bilingual education per se, but I don't know if she is in favor of total immersion. FWIW my dad came to the USA at age 12 and spoke no English at home, and he was immediately tossed into an English speaking classroom in Long Beach, CA, and within 1 year he was fluent. I'm sure this story is pretty common.2. Why not?

I know what I write makes people laugh now and then, but what was especially humorous about the above?

In Oakland CA not too long ago, they seriously thought the notion of using Ebonics in classrooms because it was the language spoken at home. Your general anecdotal summation really doesn't have any meat here, just the usual tim anecdotal summation. I grew up in a Bilingual family, and I only speak one language fluently. But that didn't start in the classroom, it started at home.

If you're ever in San Francisco, do me a favor and take the 30 Stockton Muni line. There you'll find the real Chinatown, where English is a total second language spoken by many generations, with most of the older generations not having much English speaking skills at all.

ETA: many edits due to the flu screwing with my English.

I've been to Chinatown (perhaps not the "real" Chinatown. ) I believe you, but I'm still not sure what your point is. Hope you feel better, though.

 

[Gr00vus]

Tim, are you in favor of that part of Point 2 where it says "Learn English" and would you then support ending bilingual education etc?

And does this plan affect undocumented aliens from countries other than Latin America?

1. I'm not a fan of bilingual education. I want to be careful here as I am not an educator, and I'm not sure what is the best way to get children who don't speak English to do so. My wife was a kindergarten teacher for 8 years, and she is also opposed to bilingual education per se, but I don't know if she is in favor of total immersion. FWIW my dad came to the USA at age 12 and spoke no English at home, and he was immediately tossed into an English speaking classroom in Long Beach, CA, and within 1 year he was fluent. I'm sure this story is pretty common.2. Why not?

I know what I write makes people laugh now and then, but what was especially humorous about the above?

In Oakland CA not too long ago, they seriously thought the notion of using Ebonics in classrooms because it was the language spoken at home. Your general anecdotal summation really doesn't have any meat here, just the usual tim anecdotal summation. I grew up in a Bilingual family, and I only speak one language fluently. But that didn't start in the classroom, it started at home.

If you're ever in San Francisco, do me a favor and take the 30 Stockton Muni line. There you'll find the real Chinatown, where English is a total second language spoken by many generations, with most of the older generations not having much English speaking skills at all.

ETA: many edits due to the flu screwing with my English.

I've been to Chinatown (perhaps not the "real" Chinatown. ) I believe you, but I'm still not sure what your point is. Hope you feel better, though.

I think he's saying your dad's experience isn't completely relevant to today's immigrants.

 

[T Bell]

Can we call him Tony Villar, not what he changed his name to to pander to the Latino vote, please?

Actually he was born Antonio Ramón Villar, Jr. His wife and he merged their last names for some reason. If you want to hate on the guy though hate on him for screwing around on his wife while she was dealing with cancer. He will never get to a national office and I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

There are also rumors that he's on the down low. I will say that he's always set off my gaydar. NTTAWWT of course, but I've always thought he had aspirations for the Presidency and I think he's just got too much baggage.

 

[NCCommish]

Can we call him Tony Villar, not what he changed his name to to pander to the Latino vote, please?

Actually he was born Antonio Ramón Villar, Jr. His wife and he merged their last names for some reason. If you want to hate on the guy though hate on him for screwing around on his wife while she was dealing with cancer. He will never get to a national office and I have my doubts he can be elected governor.

There are also rumors that he's on the down low. I will say that he's always set off my gaydar. NTTAWWT of course, but I've always thought he had aspirations for the Presidency and I think he's just got too much baggage.

Yeah between the nepotism, the cheating on the sick wife and the hanging out with Charlie Sheen I think he doesn't have to worry much about national office.