Obama: Worst President Ever? (1 Viewer)

[Amused to Death]

Worst ever? Not sure I can make that claim, but he's pretty bad. I'll be interested to see how he behaves once he's out of office. Former presidents tend to bond over their common experience... its a pretty small club. Not sure how he'll be received after 8 years of bashing a former POTUS. 

Bashed who, W?  Hell, the current GOP candidate bashed W.  Everyone bashes W.  You don't hear his name mentioned (in a positive way) this election cycle.  There's a reason for that.

 

[BowieMercs]

Bashed who, W?  Hell, the current GOP candidate bashed W.  Everyone bashes W.  You don't hear his name mentioned (in a positive way) this election cycle.  There's a reason for that.

All candidates bash everyone. This isn't a poll about worst candidate ever... though Trump would certainly be competitive. America loves reality TV & Trump is delivering. I don't see either candidate restoring the luster to the office of the president. 

 

[McGarnicle]

More like he is posting about Obama's lack of presidential skills, but feel free to call him racist for that opinion.  Got any links to his racism?  Obama is more racist than the people you call out.

pathetic

I guarantee that one year from today we'll all wish Obama was still president. Even Irish idiots like you. Wrap your mind around that! Boom!

 

[shadrap]

"guarantee".   Sure, okay.   What's with the "Boom"?  Is that like a gotcha or something?

 

[BowieMercs]

I guarantee that one year from today we'll all wish Obama was still president. Even Irish idiots like you. Wrap your mind around that! Boom!

Can we just go 4 yrs without a president? SCOTUS can sit at 8. Call it a cooling off period. It's not like much if anything is getting passed now anyways. Maybe in 4 years we'll have someone to vote for. The current selection is horrid.

 

[McGarnicle]

"guarantee".   Sure, okay.   What's with the "Boom"?  Is that like a gotcha or something?

That's so cool that you have Internet access! Look at you, smarty pants! 

 

[shadrap]

That's so cool that you have Internet access! Look at you, smarty pants! 

Stay classy. 

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Average to slightly above average for the 20th - 21st century, so still no. People still going with worst ever in here? How old is that cohort, can't even remember 2007? You guys longing for the good ole Great Depression days, or just don't understand the meaning of the word "ever"? 

 

[shadrap]

Average to slightly above average for the 20th - 21st century, so still no. People still going with worst ever in here? How old is that cohort, can't even remember 2007? You guys longing for the good ole Great Depression days, or just don't understand the meaning of the word "ever"? 

There has been worse presidents.  Carter was a real dandy.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

There has been worse presidents.  Carter was a real dandy.

Well said.

/thread

 

[squistion]

I think Eisenhower might have been right.  Thing is Japan was not giving up.   The given was that it would cost 1,000,000  dead of United States soldiers to land on Japan and go door to door, kill everyone, get killed  & then get Japan to surrender.   The 2nd Atomic cut that figure to zero.

No that wasn't a given. That rationalization of one million dead was never given by anyone at the time for the reason that the bombs were dropped, including Truman, Eisenhower or anyone else - it was several years after the war was over that explanation first surfaced.  It has been well documented by historians, mentioned in the link I provided, that Japan would have surrendered anyway, without an invasion, their only condition being that their Emperor not be imprisoned or punished (which Truman was agreeable to, as evidenced how the actual surrender was handled).

 

[MarvinTScamper]

Gen. Dwight Eisenhower a big enough name for you?

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/it-wasnt-necessary-to-hit-them-with-that-awful-thing-why-dropping-the-a-bombs-was-wrong/article/2534018#.V0ob83xy3X4.facebook

Gen. Dwight Eisenhower said in 1963, “the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”

That wasn’t merely hindsight. Eisenhower made the same argument in 1945. In his memoirs, Ike recalled a visit from War Secretary Henry Stimson:

"I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face.' "

I would call it high comedy to suggest the bombing took place without the blessing of the Supreme Commander and the Secretary of War.   I would also say that the number of people to likely die if we hadn't dropped the two atomic weapons is difficult to guess.   Given the casualty rates in the Pacific Theater, and the fact that Japan's Empire ordered to "kill all prisoners", I have less faith in the "likely would have surrendered" than you do.

 

[Joe Summer]

Okay, let's say it wasn't 1 million American deaths. Let's say it was similar to the Normandy invasion, which was 50,000 deaths for the main part of the invasion. 50K Americans or 130K Japanese? I'm not sure if I can fault Truman for making that choice.

 

[MarvinTScamper]

Okay, let's say it wasn't 1 million American deaths. Let's say it was similar to the Normandy invasion, which was 50,000 deaths for the main part of the invasion. 50K Americans or 130K Japanese? I'm not sure if I can fault Truman for making that choice.

Completely agree.   F them anyway, they started it.

 

[Apple Jack]

What's with this use of theater people always tryin to pull off when talking about Japan in WWII?

 

[flapgreen]

The visceral hatred you spew in here screams of something other than his presidentin' skills.

I'd bet money you're a frequent Limbaugh listener? The divider stuff sounds familiar from the Clinton years. 

I can't stand Obama,  obviously,  but I'm pushing the limits a little on here on purpose.  I think he's a poor human being with low character and a terrible leader.  His values are completely contrary to my own.   I can't say he wishes death to all,  though.  Ive never listened to Rush.   His ideas are too extreme and far Right for me.   I didn't even know he still had a show.   He's a babbling moron that makes conservatives look radical and foolish. 

 

[flapgreen]

Color of skin is not something that even registers with me.  I don't even think about it when looking at people. 

 

[squistion]

I would call it high comedy to suggest the bombing took place without the blessing of the Supreme Commander and the Secretary of War.   I would also say that the number of people to likely die if we hadn't dropped the two atomic weapons is difficult to guess.   Given the casualty rates in the Pacific Theater, and the fact that Japan's Empire ordered to "kill all prisoners", I have less faith in the "likely would have surrendered" than you do.

If isn't difficult to guess, it is zero, see the links I provided. Japan was trying to negotiate surrender through their embassy in Moscow through the only diplomatic channels they had available. And Russia was going to enter the war (see Truman's diaries) in August 1945.

I had an international relations class some years ago and they had some WW2 historians come in to speak who said they researched it and found no mention of the one million casualties or massive casualties estimate anywhere before 1948 - it was not given as a reason by anyone publically or privately at the time the bombs were dropped, it was a several years after the fact spin/rationalization.

 

[HellToupee]

If isn't difficult to guess, it is zero, see the links I provided. Japan was trying to negotiate surrender through their embassy in Moscow through the only diplomatic channels they had available. And Russia was going to enter the war (see Truman's diaries) in August 1945.

I had an international relations class some years ago and they had some WW2 historians come in to speak who said they researched it and found no mention of the one million casualties or massive casualties estimate anywhere before 1948 - it was not given as a reason by anyone at the time to drop the bombs, it was a several years after the fact spin/rationalization.

This is incredible. Simply incredible.

bye have you ever talked to a WW2 veteran?

 

[Apple Jack]

"Low character"

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

I can't stand Obama,  obviously,  but I'm pushing the limits a little on here on purpose.  I think he's a poor human being with low character and a terrible leader.  His values are completely contrary to my own.   I can't say he wishes death to all,  though.  Ive never listened to Rush.   His ideas are too extreme and far Right for me.   I didn't even know he still had a show.   He's a babbling moron that makes conservatives look radical and foolish. 

He likes to talk sports, plays golf, raised 2 daughters (one off to Harvard), holds down a tough day job, and managed to not screw everything up while stabilizing the economy for the most part. There's nothing he's said or done in the past 8 years to find in common with, or to at least say "this guy is not the worst ever"? No affairs, no really major scandals (impeachment worthy: think Watergate and Clinton), no economic crises, very pro-troops. Completely contrary to all of this?

 

[cstu]

If isn't difficult to guess, it is zero, see the links I provided. Japan was trying to negotiate surrender through their embassy in Moscow through the only diplomatic channels they had available. And Russia was going to enter the war (see Truman's diaries) in August 1945.

I had an international relations class some years ago and they had some WW2 historians come in to speak who said they researched it and found no mention of the one million casualties or massive casualties estimate anywhere before 1948 - it was not given as a reason by anyone publically or privately at the time the bombs were dropped, it was a several years after the fact spin/rationalization.

We didn't want Japan to 'negotiate' surrender, let alone with the USSR.  By dropping two bombs, Japan unconditionally surrendered and no more Americans died. 

Operation Downfall

The main concern for the Americans was the potential for huge casualty rates. Nearly every senior officer involved in the planning did his own research regarding American casualties – this was based on the experience America had fighting the Japanese since Pearl Harbour.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff estimated that Olympic alone would cost 456,000 men, including 109,000 killed. Including Coronet, it was estimated that America would experience 1.2 million casualties, with 267,000 deaths.

Staff working for Chester Nimitz, calculated that the first 30 days of Olympic alone would cost 49,000 men.MacArthur’s staff concluded that America would suffer 125,000 casualties after 120 days, a figure that was later reduced to 105,000 casualties after his staff subtracted the men who when wounded could return to battle.

General Marshall, in conference with President Truman, estimated 31,000 in 30 days after landing in Kyushu. Admiral Leahy estimated that the invasion would cost 268,000 casualties. Personnel at the Navy Department estimated that the total losses to America would be between 1.7 and 4 million with 400,000 to 800,000 deaths. The same department estimated that there would be up to 10 million Japanese casualties. The ‘Los Angeles Times’ estimated that America would suffer up to 1 million casualties.

Regardless of which figures were used, it was an accepted fact that America would lose a very large number of men. This was one of the reasons why President Truman authorised the use of the atomic bomb in an effort to get Japan to surrender. On August 6th, ‘Little Boy’ was dropped on Hiroshima and on August 9th, ‘Fat Man’ was dropped on Nagasaki. On September 2nd, Japan surrendered and America and her allies were spared the task of invading Japan with the projected massive casualties this would entail.

 

[squistion]

We didn't want Japan to 'negotiate' surrender, let alone with the USSR.  By dropping two bombs, the Japan unconditionally surrendered and no more Americans died. 

The only condition they were asking for was that the emperor not be jailed or punished. That was it and Truman went along with that after the unconditional surrender. And we wouldn't have had to negotiate anything with the USSR, Russia was the only nation in which we both had embassies and where our diplomats could communicate directly with one another.

 

[Insomniac]

If isn't difficult to guess, it is zero, see the links I provided. Japan was trying to negotiate surrender through their embassy in Moscow through the only diplomatic channels they had available. And Russia was going to enter the war (see Truman's diaries) in August 1945.

I had an international relations class some years ago and they had some WW2 historians come in to speak who said they researched it and found no mention of the one million casualties or massive casualties estimate anywhere before 1948 - it was not given as a reason by anyone publically or privately at the time the bombs were dropped, it was a several years after the fact spin/rationalization.

You're buying into the idea that the Japanese were offering to surrender when they were trying to negotiate terms of  a cease fire. These are not the same thing.

In the Potsdam Declaration the Allies demanded unconditional surrender by the Japanese. The bullet points of the terms were:

1 Current government must be replaced
2 Military occupation of Japan
3 Only "home islands" remain under Japanese sovereignty
4 Japanese military disarmed 

The Japanese wanted to retain the emperor, self-disarmament, no foreign occupation, and trial of any Japanese war criminals by Japan itself. http://tinyurl.com/q9whc7q

This was clearly not acceptable to the Allies. Also the Japanese could have surrendered at any time during 1945. They had clearly lost the was and were just increasing the body count. Mostly of their own people too.

 

[General Malaise]

I can't stand Obama,  obviously,  but I'm pushing the limits a little on here on purpose.  I think he's a poor human being with low character and a terrible leader.  His values are completely contrary to my own.   I can't say he wishes death to all,  though.  Ive never listened to Rush.   His ideas are too extreme and far Right for me.   I didn't even know he still had a show.   He's a babbling moron that makes conservatives look radical and foolish. 

Oh, okay.

 

[roadkill1292]

Limbaugh has a huge show, the best show.

 

[HellToupee]

Limbaugh has a huge show, the best show.

You had perhaps the best avatar on fbg. Instantly recognizable , now you're just a face in the crowd. It's sad , really sad. What a shame .

 

[Limp Ditka]

I can't stand Obama,  obviously,  but I'm pushing the limits a little on here on purpose.  I think he's a poor human being with low character and a terrible leader.  His values are completely contrary to my own.   I can't say he wishes death to all,  though.  Ive never listened to Rush.   His ideas are too extreme and far Right for me.   I didn't even know he still had a show.   He's a babbling moron that makes conservatives look radical and foolish. 

Yet you're Xing off the days on your calendar until you can vote for Trump.

Ponderous.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

When the teleprompter went down during Obama's speech yesterday (video)

 

[flapgreen]

Yet you're Xing off the days on your calendar until you can vote for Trump.

Ponderous.

Trump is far from ideal and not a guy I love but I'm willing to take that chance over more of the same in Hilary.  From the looks of polls,  it appears I'm not alone. 

 

[flapgreen]

Oh, okay.

No reason to lie.  Last thing I remember him saying was the black qb thing. 

 

[flapgreen]

"Low character"

If you can have an opinion of racist or low character or whatever on Trump,  I can have the same opinion on Obama or Hilary.  That's what hard for people on each side to understand.  You get labeled for a certain opinion or which candidate you support.  I have people in my family who love Hilary and others who like Trump.  Doesn't matter to me and it doesn't affect my opinion of them. 

 

[cstu]

If you can have an opinion of racist or low character or whatever on Trump,  I can have the same opinion on Obama or Hilary.  That's what hard for people on each side to understand.  You get labeled for a certain opinion or which candidate you support.  I have people in my family who love Hilary and others who like Trump.  Doesn't matter to me and it doesn't affect my opinion of them. 

No, there's this little thing called 'reality'.  You can't go around calling people 'low character' with zero evidence to back it up.  There's plenty of evidence of Trump's low character - what have you got on Obama?

 

[cstu]

When the teleprompter went down during Obama's speech yesterday (video)

He sounds like that often when speaking off the cuff.  Why is that a problem?

 

[shadrap]

No, there's this little thing called 'reality'.  You can't go around calling people 'low character' with zero evidence to back it up.  There's plenty of evidence of Trump's low character - what have you got on Obama?

He lies.

 

[Jackstraw]

We didn't want Japan to 'negotiate' surrender, let alone with the USSR.  By dropping two bombs, Japan unconditionally surrendered and no more Americans died. 

So we know for sure that a whole bunch of human beings died. We can't aspire to avoid that in the future? Seems like what O was doing. 

 

[Gary Coal Man]

He sounds like that often when speaking off the cuff.  Why is that a problem?

It's not a problem.  It's just fun to share because: (A) it's funny; and (B) there are Obama zealots who consider him among the greatest orators ever.  He's excellent at giving prepared speeches, no doubt, and among the best U.S. politicians ever at that specific category.  But when he has to speak extemporaneously on an issue he fails to reach the level that many of his fanboys place him at.

So you've never shared a video of W or Trump sounding like a dolt? 

 

[Phil Elliott]

What the okie-doke is Obama saying?    Is he talking about himself?

If we turn against each other based on division of race or religion. If-if-if-if-if-if-if-if-if-if-if we fall for, you know, a bunch of okie-doke, just because, you know it-it-it. You know, it-it-it-it-it-it sounds funny or the tweets are provocative.

 

[flapgreen]

No, there's this little thing called 'reality'.  You can't go around calling people 'low character' with zero evidence to back it up.  There's plenty of evidence of Trump's low character - what have you got on Obama?

I can do whatever I like.  It's an Internet messageboard.  Sadly,  some of guys go around insulting members on here all of the time and that's no big deal to you.   But criticize the president and all of a sudden that's not allowed.  Open your your eyes.   Goes both ways.  That's the reality that don't see. 

 

[joffer]

Criticizing <> calling him an evil, vile, disgusting human being. HTH

 

[saintfool]

I can do whatever I like.  It's an Internet messageboard.  Sadly,  some of guys go around insulting members on here all of the time and that's no big deal to you.   But criticize the president and all of a sudden that's not allowed.  Open your your eyes.   Goes both ways.  That's the reality that don't see. 

I'm pretty sure if search function here was worth a damn that I could find a post from you, Flap, that impugned the character of Bush detractor. Like you are doing here, there were many - perhaps too many - that felt any criticism of Bush was unpatriotic and out of line (most especially in "war time"). I know that I took about as dim a view of the Bush presidency as you have the Obama years. The difference perhaps is between Obama and Bush is not merely approval ratings, low unemployment, the broadening economic recovery or Bin Laden dead or whatever else. Do you feel like we're better off now than we were in 2008? 2004? 2000? What's changed in that span of time for you to arrive at such a damning opinion of Obama?

 

[urbanhack]

I can't stand Obama,  obviously,  but I'm pushing the limits a little on here on purpose.  I think he's a poor human being with low character 

based on what exactly?  What's his motivation? Give some examples.   I've asked you this before and you always ##### out and don't answer.  Grow some balls.

 

[flapgreen]

So we know for sure that a whole bunch of human beings died. We can't aspire to avoid that in the future? Seems like what O was doing. 

This is laughable.  Avoid what? Hard to imagine people can't see through Obama's nonsense.  Obama isn't preventing anything by the fake speech in Japan.  Look right across the water.  North Korea,  China,  India all have nuclear weapons.   Bow Obama negotiated a deal with Iran so they will have nuclear weapons,  too.  Hell North Korea is testing them now.  You expect anyone to believe O giving a dumb speech in Japan means anything?  The guy has no credibility when it comes to security.  He's weakened the country.  But let's all question America dropping the bombs in WW 2 why don't we.  Makes a lot of sense to do that.  Estimated 1 million Americans and 5 million Japanese would've died in an invasion.    Thank God we have Obama running things now.  Sure saving a lot of lives and preventing nuclear bombs being built.  Oh,  that's right.  He's not.   Wake up and see what's happening around you,  folks. 

 

[flapgreen]

based on what exactly?  What's his motivation? Give some examples.   I've asked you this before and you always ##### out and don't answer.  Grow some balls.

Oh you got me now.  I don't have any balls.  Let me tuck tail and run away.   I could go in circles for days with the Obama supporters about what he has done and get absolutely nowhere.  Why would I even do that?  Just don't care to do the same thing and have the same discussions that have been had on here time and time again.  It goes nowhere.   I don't give 2 ####s if you don't think I have any balls or would go through those same discussions for you. 

 

[NREC34]

You had perhaps the best avatar on fbg. Instantly recognizable , now you're just a face in the crowd. It's sad , really sad. What a shame .

It's like when Jennifer Grey got that nose job. 

 

[flapgreen]

I'm pretty sure if search function here was worth a damn that I could find a post from you, Flap, that impugned the character of Bush detractor. Like you are doing here, there were many - perhaps too many - that felt any criticism of Bush was unpatriotic and out of line (most especially in "war time"). I know that I took about as dim a view of the Bush presidency as you have the Obama years. The difference perhaps is between Obama and Bush is not merely approval ratings, low unemployment, the broadening economic recovery or Bin Laden dead or whatever else. Do you feel like we're better off now than we were in 2008? 2004? 2000? What's changed in that span of time for you to arrive at such a damning opinion of Obama?

Be my guest.  Search away.  Bush was a garbage president,  too.  Just in a completely different way than Obama.  I'm not loyal to any one conservative or liberal.  

 

[sho nuff]

This is laughable.  Avoid what? Hard to imagine people can't see through Obama's nonsense.  Obama isn't preventing anything by the fake speech in Japan.  Look right across the water.  North Korea,  China,  India all have nuclear weapons.   Bow Obama negotiated a deal with Iran so they will have nuclear weapons,  too.  Hell North Korea is testing them now.  You expect anyone to believe O giving a dumb speech in Japan means anything?  The guy has no credibility when it comes to security.  He's weakened the country.  But let's all question America dropping the bombs in WW 2 why don't we.  Makes a lot of sense to do that.  Estimated 1 million Americans and 5 million Japanese would've died in an invasion.    Thank God we have Obama running things now.  Sure saving a lot of lives and preventing nuclear bombs being built.  Oh,  that's right.  He's not.   Wake up and see what's happening around you,  folks. 

He didnt apogize or question it.

Nor did he give nukes to Iran.

You seem to struggle with the truth.

 

[[scooter]]

Obama's approval rating is higher than Ronald Reagan's, despite the fact that he occasionally says nice things about Hillary Clinton.

 

[skycriesmary]

Oh you got me now.  I don't have any balls.  Let me tuck tail and run away.   I could go in circles for days with the Obama supporters about what he has done and get absolutely nowhere.  Why would I even do that?  Just don't care to do the same thing and have the same discussions that have been had on here time and time again.  It goes nowhere.   I don't give 2 ####s if you don't think I have any balls or would go through those same discussions for you. 




1

Glad to see you're finally owning it. 

 

[Dignan_]

After Nanking, Pearl Harbor, and Bataan I would say the Japanese got what they deserved.