Odell Thurman suspended (1 Viewer)

[Jene Bramel]

LINK

And once again, where there's smoke there's fire with PFT....

LB Thurman suspended for four games

By Mark Curnutte

Enquirer staff writer

Bengals linebacker Odell Thurman will be suspended for the first four games of the NFL season for violation of the league’s substance abuse policy, a source close to the situation told the Enquirer this afternoon.

The source said it was not necessarily a positive drug test that led to Thurman’s suspension. A missed test also counts the same as a positive test.

Thurman, who turned 23 on July 9, was one of the NFL’s top defensive rookies in 2005. He had a team-high 148 tackles and tied for the team lead with four forced fumbles. He returned one of his five interceptions for a touchdown. He started 15 games at middle linebacker and did not start the 16th for violation of a team rule.

Questions about Thurman’s health or status for the upcoming season surfaced during the mandatory June mini-camp. He was excused for personal reasons, coach Marvin Lewis said at the time.

Questions about Thurman’s situation again surfaced today when the Bengals selected former University of Virginia linebacker Ahmad Brooks in the NFL’s Supplemental Draft. The Bengals also used their fifth-round pick in the April 29-30 draft on former Florida State linebacker A.J. Nicholson.

Depth is no problem at linebacker for the Bengals. They also have returning second-year pro David Pollack, their first-round pick in 2005. They also drafted a pair of linebackers in the third round in 2004, Caleb Miller and Landon Johnson. Johnson started 11 games at middle linebacker as a rookie in place of injured starter Nate Webster. Johnson led the Bengals with 133 tackles as a rookie and appears to be the likely candidate to start in place of Thurman during the first month.

Pollack figures to be the starter at strong-side linebacker, and veteran Brian Simmons is likely to again start at weak-side linebacker.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

good thing I just drafted him.

:(

 

[sholditch]

great scoop. Who gets the start at MLB for the first four games?

 

[Jene Bramel]

great scoop. Who gets the start at MLB for the first four games?

I'd install Landon Johnson as an early, albeit shaky favorite. He's got experience and talent. It's conceivable that Brooks steps in quickly should he prove himself capable - just like Thurman did last year. I'd think Nicholson is a long shot.

 

[Chaos Commish]

good thing I just drafted him.

:(

In a non dynasty but deep keeper that forces keeping a couple IDPs, I was considering keeping him, but not now.So, off to Zealots to increase Ahmad Brooks auction value.

 

[Cannon Fodder]

good thing I just drafted him.

:(

In a non dynasty but deep keeper that forces keeping a couple IDPs, I was considering keeping him, but not now.So, off to Zealots to increase Ahmad Brooks auction value.

So.......what Zealots league?

 

[WhoDat]

That's just great news.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

good thing I just drafted him.

:(

In a non dynasty but deep keeper that forces keeping a couple IDPs, I was considering keeping him, but not now.So, off to Zealots to increase Ahmad Brooks auction value.

So.......what Zealots league?

Z30

 

[sholditch]

big UGA fan and alum. Thurman was a discipline case all through school. With this news coming out, I would not be surprised to see him get a one-year ban at some point in his career. Maybe this will scare him straight, but all the suspensions he got at UGA sure didn't.

 

[PhilyFn]

This from KFFL:

Bengals | Pollack figures to start at strongside linebackerThu, 13 Jul 2006 14:35:35 -0700Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports Cincinnati Bengals LB David Pollack figures to start at strongside linebacker after LB Odell Thurman was suspended for four games for violating the substance abuse policy. LB Brian Simmons will again start at weakside linebacker.

So what's the outlook for Pollack now? Better, worse, indifferent?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

This from KFFL:

Bengals | Pollack figures to start at strongside linebacker

Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:35:35 -0700

Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports Cincinnati Bengals LB David Pollack figures to start at strongside linebacker after LB Odell Thurman was suspended for four games for violating the substance abuse policy. LB Brian Simmons will again start at weakside linebacker.

So what's the outlook for Pollack now? Better, worse, indifferent?

Landon Johnson may have been splitting time with him before this happened. But, with LJ likely taking over for Thurman at MLB, that should free up more playing time for Pollock early in the season.

 

[pretender]

That's just great news.

Yeah just wonderful news.

 

[bengalboy]

Looks like the Bengals are earning their stripes. Ugh. Will the madness ever end?

 

[coolnerd]

From everything I have seen said about him Marvin Lewis could be more opposite than the type of players that organization keeps drafting. From those who know him better is this a misread on my part or does he think he can reform anyone despite thier past issues?

 

[Pick]

I seem to recall there being questions about Thurman's character coming out of college. One reason I took Ruud instead. Having said that, I think sometimes you like that thug attitude in an RB or LB. Look no farther then the Ravens with R. Lewis and J. Lewis. I guess you take the good with the bad.

 

[DonFue]

I said it before and now its too late for most: He's overrated anyways...trade him!!!! Always listen to the DonFue!!!!

 

[ConstruxBoy]

good thing I just drafted him.

:(

In a non dynasty but deep keeper that forces keeping a couple IDPs, I was considering keeping him, but not now.So, off to Zealots to increase Ahmad Brooks auction value.

So.......what Zealots league?

Z30

Hey! I've got Thurman, I get Brooks!

 

[Jene Bramel]

This from KFFL:

Bengals | Pollack figures to start at strongside linebacker

Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:35:35 -0700

Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports Cincinnati Bengals LB David Pollack figures to start at strongside linebacker after LB Odell Thurman was suspended for four games for violating the substance abuse policy. LB Brian Simmons will again start at weakside linebacker.

So what's the outlook for Pollack now? Better, worse, indifferent?

Pollack was going to start on the strong side this year regardless of today's news. This note was taken out of context - Pollack starting on the strong side has nothing to do with the suspension. See the full text in the original post. Landon Johnson would've been the top backup at all three positions most likely. Depending on how Brooks looks, he could have that role despite the suspension.

From everything I have seen said about him Marvin Lewis could be more opposite than the type of players that organization keeps drafting. From those who know him better is this a misread on my part or does he think he can reform anyone despite thier past issues?

Well, it certainly isn't Mike Brown who's making the call on these guys, heh. Some say Marvin feels like he can redeem and remake any of these young guys with character questions. Some say he just does more research than others to convince himself that the issues are just "immaturity" or "overblown". As a Bengal fan, you almost have to start questioning this with Henry's three arrests in 18 months, Thurman's second known issue since entering the league - there may be others, and the things that have come to light on both Frostee Rucker and AJ Nicholson since the draft. The track record is beginning to speak for itself.

I said it before and now its too late for most:  He's overrated anyways...trade him!!!!  Always listen to the DonFue!!!!

Homer leanings aside, Thurman is not overrated. From a fantasy perspective, he may become overrated pending a scheme change. But there's absolutely no reason to suspect that a player with his skill set can't overcome his rookie struggles in run support at times and greatly increase his tackle stats. Certainly not a Vilma-like jump, but with Sam Adams in front of him, there was every reason to think he'd see a big bump in tackles this season. And he's already shown the ability to make all kinds of big plays and held his own in coverage in passing situations.I've got him in most every dynasty league I'm in, and I'm not moving him until I know what the 2007 scheme looks like - if ever. If I didn't have him, I'd be considering looking at him if the price was low enough, suspensions and prospective scheme changes aside.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

The hits just keep on coming for the Bengals since the end of the regular season.

Palmer goes down.

Henry gets hurt and then arrested multiple times.

Kitna bails out to Motown.

Their draft class is loaded with bones, thugs and disharmony.

Odell Thurman gets suspended.

....and then they just drafted another nut-job in the supplemental draft today - burning up next year's 3rd round pick.

 

[pretender]

Maybe a thin slice of hope?

KFFL Bengals | Team has no comment on Thurman’s reported suspension

Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:34:44 -0700

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chick Ludwig, of the Dayton Daily News, reports the Cincinnati Bengals refused comment on an earlier story that stated LB Odell Thurman will be suspended for the first four games of the NFL season. "We don't comment on unsourced reports," Bengals spokesman Jack Brennan said Thursday, July 13. "I have no news to report on Odell Thurman," NFL spokesman Steve Alic said Thursday night. Thurman was the only absentee at the club's mandatory full-squad minicamp June 15-17, missing all three days with due to what head coach Marvin Lewis called personal reasons.

 

[sholditch]

Hope that the reports aren't true. If they aren't, NFL Radio and ESPN have some splainin to do. Course, it wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Fiddles]

I said it before and now its too late for most: He's overrated anyways...trade him!!!! Always listen to the DonFue!!!!

ya he was awful last yearvery overrated



oh and

 

[Jene Bramel]

From Pasquarelli's Friday Tip Sheet...

Link (Insider content)

The Bengals apparently aligned ...

WLB Landon Johnson

MLB Brian Simmons

SLB David Pollack

... during their most recent mini-camp with Thurman MIA. This is the first I've heard of this -- none of the Bengal beat writers (Bengals.com did today) had reported this.

Also, Pasquarelli is echoing something attributed to NFL.com's Gil Brandt earlier in the week -- many scouts felt Ahmad Brooks would contribute most quickly as a situational pass rusher early on. There has also been speculation that some of the 3-4 teams believed he could be successful as an OLB.

Just a little more food for thought here.

 

[Rovers]

From Pasquarelli's Friday Tip Sheet...

Link (Insider content)

The Bengals apparently aligned ...

WLB Landon Johnson

MLB Brian Simmons

SLB David Pollack

... during their most recent mini-camp with Thurman MIA. This is the first I've heard of this -- none of the Bengal beat writers (Bengals.com did today) had reported this.

Also, Pasquarelli is echoing something attributed to NFL.com's Gil Brandt earlier in the week -- many scouts felt Ahmad Brooks would contribute most quickly as a situational pass rusher early on. There has also been speculation that some of the 3-4 teams believed he could be successful as an OLB.

Just a little more food for thought here.

Oooooh, Simmons in the middle? That would make me a very happy camper. I wonder which one gets pulled in the nickel? OT: The poster who lumped Jamal Lewis in with thugs.... LOL. Some drug ho knows a guy that knows Lewis, and she gets arrested. She uses Lewis as bait, and they set up a sting. This idiot high school friend of Lewis' gets him to talk to the druggie on the phone, the 3 of them have dinner at a restaurant, and he's a thug. That whole thing was BS. The only victim in that debauchery was Lewis. Rant over.

 

[Keg]

the thing that sucks most about the 4 game suspension is that the next one is for a year

i shouldnt have any problem filling Thurman's spot in one league where i have 13 LBs on my roster:

(1st yr dynasty and we drafted back in feb., 2pts/tackle, start 3)

Thurman, Odell CIN LB

Pierce, Antonio NYG LB

Smith, Daryl JAC LB

James, Bradie DAL LB

Johnson, Landon CIN LB

McCoy, Matt PHI LB

Adams, Keith CAR LB

Boley, Michael ATL LB

Clemons, Chris WAS LB

Haggans, Clark PIT LB

Henderson, E.J. MIN LB

Hillenmeyer, Hunter CHI LB

DTS-

Johnson, Brandon ARI LB

but in another league same scoring I am now a bit thin at LB

Thurman, Odell CIN LB

Witherspoon, Will STL LB

Johnson, Derrick O. KCC LB

Davis, Thomas CAR LB

Clemons, Chris WAS LB

Johnson, Brandon ARI LB

Thomas, Robert OAK LB

DTS-

Williams, Jamar CHI LB

McCune, Robert WAS LB

Mitchell, Lance ARI LB

Newberry, Jared TEN LB

Wallace, Rian PIT LB

Alston, Jon STL LB

 

[Pick]

From Pasquarelli's Friday Tip Sheet...

Link (Insider content)

The Bengals apparently aligned ...

WLB Landon Johnson

MLB Brian Simmons

SLB David Pollack

... during their most recent mini-camp with Thurman MIA. This is the first I've heard of this -- none of the Bengal beat writers (Bengals.com did today) had reported this.

Also, Pasquarelli is echoing something attributed to NFL.com's Gil Brandt earlier in the week -- many scouts felt Ahmad Brooks would contribute most quickly as a situational pass rusher early on. There has also been speculation that some of the 3-4 teams believed he could be successful as an OLB.

Just a little more food for thought here.

Oooooh, Simmons in the middle? That would make me a very happy camper. I wonder which one gets pulled in the nickel? OT: The poster who lumped Jamal Lewis in with thugs.... LOL. Some drug ho knows a guy that knows Lewis, and she gets arrested. She uses Lewis as bait, and they set up a sting. This idiot high school friend of Lewis' gets him to talk to the druggie on the phone, the 3 of them have dinner at a restaurant, and he's a thug. That whole thing was BS. The only victim in that debauchery was Lewis. Rant over.

Ya, Jamal is an absolute saint.

 

[Rovers]

From Pasquarelli's Friday Tip Sheet...

Link (Insider content)

The Bengals apparently aligned ...

WLB Landon Johnson

MLB Brian Simmons

SLB David Pollack

... during their most recent mini-camp with Thurman MIA.  This is the first I've heard of this -- none of the Bengal beat writers (Bengals.com did today) had reported this.

Also, Pasquarelli is echoing something attributed to NFL.com's Gil Brandt earlier in the week -- many scouts felt Ahmad Brooks would contribute most quickly as a situational pass rusher early on.  There has also been speculation that some of the 3-4 teams believed he could be successful as an OLB. 

Just a little more food for thought here.

Oooooh, Simmons in the middle? That would make me a very happy camper. I wonder which one gets pulled in the nickel? OT: The poster who lumped Jamal Lewis in with thugs.... LOL. Some drug ho knows a guy that knows Lewis, and she gets arrested. She uses Lewis as bait, and they set up a sting. This idiot high school friend of Lewis' gets him to talk to the druggie on the phone, the 3 of them have dinner at a restaurant, and he's a thug. That whole thing was BS. The only victim in that debauchery was Lewis. Rant over.

Ya, Jamal is an absolute saint.

There aren't many saints wearing NFL uniforms..... as master of the obvious. But, lumping Lewis in with players with multiple arrests compared to a very dubious sting operation.... if ya want to pick on a Lewis, I'd suggest Ray Ray as number one accessory to murder candidate. Or, any number of other players NOT named Lewis. If yer looking to name thugs.... Lewis isn't top fifty.

 

[DonFue]

Thurman's 2005 numbers are simply not in line with a top LB. 65 solos, 34 assists, only one double digit TOTAL tackle game (10)? He did have some big plays against some inferior (often inept) competition on tipped balls and such but trade him while the value is high! He has Kendrell Bell written all over him! Trust the tackles...the big plays come in droves and never last for defenders that lack instincts!

Also, good LBs will make plays no matter who his DTs are...never fall for this theory...good DTs will make a defense better but have negligible effect (either up or down) on production.

Sorry about getting cocky in my original post. Bramel and Weiner Dog are the best the internet has to offer but I feel very strongly about this one!

 

[WhoDat]

Thurman's numbers for a rookie LB were good...very good. He game out of UGA with a huge...HUGE...buyer beware tag and it appears has lived up to the hype, which is making reference of his on and off field performance. Even with the luggage Thurman, opinion, is well worth having on your IDP roster. He can play LB and has a naturally bad disposition, which lends itself to Sunday productivity between the tackles and safties.

WAY too early to dump Thurman or give up on him and, if his rookie play is somehow being frowned upon, I am not sure what type of expectations owners have for FF rookies. Based on the Zealots scoring system, I think Thurman and Lofa T. ended up within a few points of one another for top scoring defensive rookies.

I drafted Thurman with full knowledge of his off field problems and would gladly do it again and, given what is being said, will make several attempts to get him on the cheap from other owners in various leagues.

Reward outweighs the risk in this situation.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Thurman's 2005 numbers are simply not in line with a top LB. 65 solos, 34 assists, only one double digit TOTAL tackle game (10)? He did have some big plays against some inferior (often inept) competition on tipped balls and such but trade him while the value is high! He has Kendrell Bell written all over him! Trust the tackles...the big plays come in droves and never last for defenders that lack instincts!

This is difficult to argue given all the variables that are involved in playing team defense, but I firmly believe that young linebackers who are known to be aggressive often make big leaps in tackle numbers after their first season playing the middle. Once these young-ins learn the more complicated professional schemes and improve their footwork and discipline, they put themselves in position to make plays much more often and the tackle results follow. I made the same argument with respect to Jonathan Vilma last season (said he would finish in the top five in overall tackles) and was roundly criticized by many on this board.

Now, obviously this doesn't work in every situation -- just like not every situational pass rusher who shows promise in run support becomes Jared Allen. I don't think it will apply to a guy like Lofa Tatupu, who has been praised for his instincts and positioning -- similar to the lack of a big jump for a guy like Zach Thomas. But here are some recent examples of guys noted to be a little too aggressive for their own good who made big strides in year two.

Jonathan Vilma

2004 77 solos >>> 2005 124 solos

Certainly, some of this increase is attributable to increased playing time (but not a significant amount) and that the Jets defense was on the field forever and a day. But not all of it is.

Ray Lewis

1996 94 solos >>> 1997 155 solos

Again, not a perfect example as Lewis played only parts of 14 games in 96, then had a career season in 97, but IMO the trend is significant.

I really think Odell Thurman fits into this category. He's talented, but was frequently out of position last season. He looked positively studly when he got himself into position. I don't think it was a lack of football instincts - you don't get yourself in position to force five fumbles, make five picks, and nine passes defended on luck alone. Some of that aggression can be harnessed and redirected by good coaches - Marvin Lewis has a solid track record here. I don't see a Vilma like statistical leap, but I really see no reason that Thurman can't average 90 plus solos a season in the current 4-3 defense. I'm cooling on him somewhat until we learn where he'll align in 2007, but the underlying point is still worth making.

Also, good LBs will make plays no matter who his DTs are...never fall for this theory...good DTs will make a defense better but have negligible effect (either up or down) on production.

I'll agree and disagree here. I won't argue that a good LB will make plays regardless of his surrounding cast. A top linebacker may shed/elude blocks from a bigger offensive lineman as well as those from a fullback or tight end. However, to argue that a good DT will make a defense better but not have that improvement translate into better stats for the very player he's designed to allow to make more plays is not consistent.

There is every reason to suspect that a MLB will make more tackles in run support if he's better protected by a solid defensive line and allowed a fraction more time to diagnose and stay clean to make hits. And I'm not sure I buy an argument that a better DT improves a defense so much that his teammates lose opportunity because they get off the field sooner.

I'll grant that Ray Lewis is becoming a grumpy old man, but I think his argument that he's not free to make plays without a DT that commands a double team in front of him is valid. It'll be interesting to see how Vilma responds to a scheme change this season.

Sorry about getting cocky in my original post. Bramel and Weiner Dog are the best the internet has to offer but I feel very strongly about this one!

 

[DonFue]

The beauty of it is we'll get to see in 2 months...whoops, 3 months for Odell! Should be interesting.

 

[Pick]

From Pasquarelli's Friday Tip Sheet...

Link (Insider content)

The Bengals apparently aligned ...

WLB Landon Johnson

MLB Brian Simmons

SLB David Pollack

... during their most recent mini-camp with Thurman MIA. This is the first I've heard of this -- none of the Bengal beat writers (Bengals.com did today) had reported this.

Also, Pasquarelli is echoing something attributed to NFL.com's Gil Brandt earlier in the week -- many scouts felt Ahmad Brooks would contribute most quickly as a situational pass rusher early on. There has also been speculation that some of the 3-4 teams believed he could be successful as an OLB.

Just a little more food for thought here.

Oooooh, Simmons in the middle? That would make me a very happy camper. I wonder which one gets pulled in the nickel? OT: The poster who lumped Jamal Lewis in with thugs.... LOL. Some drug ho knows a guy that knows Lewis, and she gets arrested. She uses Lewis as bait, and they set up a sting. This idiot high school friend of Lewis' gets him to talk to the druggie on the phone, the 3 of them have dinner at a restaurant, and he's a thug. That whole thing was BS. The only victim in that debauchery was Lewis. Rant over.

Ya, Jamal is an absolute saint.

There aren't many saints wearing NFL uniforms..... as master of the obvious. But, lumping Lewis in with players with multiple arrests compared to a very dubious sting operation.... if ya want to pick on a Lewis, I'd suggest Ray Ray as number one accessory to murder candidate. Or, any number of other players NOT named Lewis. If yer looking to name thugs.... Lewis isn't top fifty.

There certainly are levels of thugdom. I'm just not buying that Jamal was an innocent bystander in that deal.

 

[Weiner Dog]

Thurman's 2005 numbers are simply not in line with a top LB. 65 solos, 34 assists, only one double digit TOTAL tackle game (10)? He did have some big plays against some inferior (often inept) competition on tipped balls and such but trade him while the value is high! He has Kendrell Bell written all over him! Trust the tackles...the big plays come in droves and never last for defenders that lack instincts!

Also, good LBs will make plays no matter who his DTs are...never fall for this theory...good DTs will make a defense better but have negligible effect (either up or down) on production.

Sorry about getting cocky in my original post. Bramel and Weiner Dog are the best the internet has to offer but I feel very strongly about this one!

You probably have me confused with somebody else.

To be honest, I also think Thurman has been over-rated in redraft leagues this year. IMO, why draft Thurman as a Top-10 LB when you can get "Thurman-like" production (ie. 3-down MLB who does not net high solo tackles) from guys like Shelton Quarles and Al Wilson 20-30 LB's later??

Because of the weak LB classes since '00, I think there are a lot of owners trying to anoint the next Vilma. I don't think Thurman is the heir apparent. AJ Hawk...that's a different story.

 

[DonFue]

Heir apparent? Lofa! I see his numbers increasing the way bramel explained above as a second season jump! A tougher schedule would really help all of Seattle's defenders!

 

[Jene Bramel]

Heir apparent?  Lofa!  I see his numbers increasing the way bramel explained above as a second season jump!  A tougher schedule would really help all of Seattle's defenders!

Yeah, see, this is where we differ. I think Tatupu will see some bump in his tackle stats but I don't think it'll be significant. Tatupu was already stellar in reading keys, diagnosing plays, and putting himself in position to make tackles. There's not much room for improvement in those areas, so the opportunity will have to come in the form of significantly more opportunity (probably not likely given that Leroy Hill and Julian Peterson both look to be above average defenders).All kinds of storylines this season though -- I'm with you DonFue -- I can't wait to see how things shake out. Especially the Hawk situation. I've sent myself up to be a big donkey on that one...

 

[Weiner Dog]

Heir apparent? Lofa! I see his numbers increasing the way bramel explained above as a second season jump! A tougher schedule would really help all of Seattle's defenders!

You need to choose a side of the fence and stay on it. Thurman and Tatupu were nearly identical from a stat/FF perspective last year.Thurman:

106 tackles / 1.5 sacks / 5 INT's / 9 PD's / 1 TD

Games of 10+ tackles = 2

Tatupu:

105 tackles / 4 sacks / 3 INT's / 10 PD's / 1 TD

Games of 10+ tackles = 3

Both players were obviously big-play LB's last year with only 2nd and 3rd-tier stat lines for tackles. Speaking on strickly stats and ignoring talent, situation, blah, blah...why is one LB be expected to make the "2nd-year jump", while the other is destined to be flop??

Is Odell's suspension the reason for his pending failure?? Do you think Lofa plays in a better situation or has superior instincts and measurables to Odell?? I'm curious...

 

[mlball77]

So am I to take it that this suspension is not official at this piont? There is still a glimmer of hope for us Thurman owners?

 

[Weiner Dog]

So am I to take it that this suspension is not official at this piont? There is still a glimmer of hope for us Thurman owners?

Unless I'm mistaken, I thought there were two reasons for the failed test:1) The dope doped.

2) The dope missed a test.

Either way, it's my understanding he misses four games. I could be wrong. Have you heard something else??

 

[Jene Bramel]

So am I to take it that this suspension is not official at this piont?  There is still  a glimmer of hope for us Thurman owners?

Unless I'm mistaken, I thought there were two reasons for the failed test:1) The dope doped.

2) The dope missed a test.

Either way, it's my understanding he misses four games. I could be wrong. Have you heard something else??

Per NFL confidentiality rules, I don't think the league or team is allowed to confirm suspensions until they happen -- could be wrong though. Thurman and his agent are yet to confirm the suspension, but it's been reported by multiple sources including Geoff Hobson and Mark Curnutte, two of the most up-to-speed beat reporters. And nobody's in a hurry to deny it.He's suspended.

 

[DonFue]

The single most important attribute for a LB is instincts and Lofa is light-years ahead of Odell. Lofa's production improved over last season while Odell's fell. More importantly, Lofa made a bigger impact on actual games as the season wore on while Odell became a liability (that may or may not be due to the "rookie wall").

I always rank a player by talent long before they ever enter the NFL. I loved Tatupu and thought "Kendrell Bell" every time I watched/read about Odell.

Does Odell have huge upside? Yes. I have seen many non-instinctive players improve their producton, sometime significantly, over their careers. Do they become more instinctive or just get comfortable in a scheme? Who really knows for sure, but while I'd bet on the latter, having a 3-down MLB in a Marvin Lewis scheme certainly isn't ever a bad thing.

I just say trade him because you can get more while he's considered a great young talent. He may have hit his production ceiling.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Bengals.com

Thurman's suspension confirmed. Hobson discusses some of the ins and outs of the suspension too. And some more coaches' comments on the Simmons/Johnson plan to fill in while Thurman is out.

In the worst kept secret since the identity of a certain CIA agent, the NFL has officially suspended Bengals middle linebacker Odell Thurman for the first four games of the season because of what is believed to be a violation of the league’s substance abuse policy.

Head coach Marvin Lewis made the announcement Wednesday at Paul Brown Stadium before the team’s annual training camp media luncheon, confirming published reports of July 13 and ending months of speculation.

Saying, “I’m very disappointed” in Thurman, Lewis indicated that he is eligible to practice when training camp opens Saturday night at Georgetown College and he can play in the four preseason games, but Lewis wouldn't say if Thurman would do any of it because "it's at my discretion." And Lewis also makes that call later to determine if he'll activate Thurman when he’s eligible to return Oct. 2.

Thurman can attend meetings and work out on his own once the suspension starts the week before the season starts Sept. 10, but he can’t practice or go to games. All indications are that Thurman is healthy and can practice.

According to the policy of the league’s intervention program, Thurman would have had to fail or miss drug tests, or fail to comply with his program, a total of at least three times in order to get a four-game suspension in Stage Two of the intervention. But each player’s program is confidential.

Assuming Thurman is now in Stage Three, he’ll be in it for the rest of his career and be subject to unannounced testing. Another misstep likely results in a year’s suspension.

Thurman, who turned 23 two weeks ago, fell to the second round of the 2005 draft despite being the consensus top inside backer. Off-field problems at Georgia dropped him to the 48th pick, but he responded in making a run at NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year in leading all rookies with five interceptions and leading the Bengals with 148 tackles and four forced fumbles.

It’s a blow for a team that already has an arduous first month of the regular season with games against the last two Super Bowl champions as well as a Chiefs offense that led the NFL last season. Now without their starting middle backer, the Bengals face two of the league’s top five rushing offenses in the No. 4 Chiefs and No. 5 Steelers.

The coaches turned to Brian Simmons at last month’s minicamp and put him in Thurman’s spot even though it was this staff that moved him out of the middle to the right outside when Lewis arrived in 2003. Although Landon Johnson led the team in tackles in the middle as a rookie in 2004 in place of injured Nate Webster, he lined up in Simmons’ spot at “Will” in minicamp.

In a Q-and-A session earlier this week, defensive coordinator Chuck Bresnahan wouldn’t talk about Thurman specifically, but he likes the Simmons-Johnson inside-outside punch and said the club is going to continue to tinker with the spot at training camp. Citing Johnson’s 230-pound speed and Simmons’ 240-pound experience, Bresnahan said Simmons in the middle and Johnson to his right, “is something we think can be good for us.

“I don’t think it’s as big a question mark as what it’s posed to be as who our MAC linebacker is going to be, but we feel we’ve secured the middle of the field pretty well,” said Bresnahan, referring to the acquisitions of defensive tackle Sam Adams and strong safety Dexter Jackson and the return of injured free safety Madieu Williams.

 

[acpkg]

Should I trade Odell for Heap when I already have Cooley?

 

[noneother]

so can thurman play in preseason games? how's his camp, has he done anything yet?

OT

MY LBS are

Demarcus Ware

Odell thurman

lemar marshall

demarco ryans

dqwell jackson

how'd I do??

 

[Warpig]

With all the talk of Thurman possibly not playing at all this year, I'm targeting Brian Simmons in my draft. I think he'll be a good fill in to get me by for this year. I'd like to get Thurman, but not if he's gonna miss the year.

 

[Cannon Fodder]

Is Brooks more of an OLB or is there a chance he could take the role of a MLB? Any chance he steals one of the starting spots this year (or at least the first 4 games)?

 

[SpaceMonkeys]

It's life as usuall here in the "Nasty-Nati" when it comes to law enforcement and the pro's. Thurman's favorite song is "Laffy Taffy" for christs-sake. Marvin has replaced Huggins as the recruiter of head cases with huge upside. I also think part of it is Marvin signing players he feels he can sign easily and cheaply based on "rumors" and "speculations" which is all these issues are until a court of law says..."WHOOOOO DEYYYYYYY"

Keep on smoking Odell I feel ya!

 

[Jene Bramel]

With all the talk of Thurman possibly not playing at all this year, I'm targeting Brian Simmons in my draft. I think he'll be a good fill in to get me by for this year. I'd like to get Thurman, but not if he's gonna miss the year.

Thurman should be back after his suspension. He's already actively conditioning in camp and is far from the 190lb meth-ed out guy that was rumored. Simmons will be a pretty good option until he returns though.

Is Brooks more of an OLB or is there a chance he could take the role of a MLB? Any chance he steals one of the starting spots this year (or at least the first 4 games)?

See the new post pretender started for some more Brooks discussion. For now, Brooks, while impressing coaches so far, is still fighting the "being a little too aggressive and overrunning plays" problem most rookie backers have. With Carson Palmer questionable and a tough early season schedule, expect a playoff hopeful like the Bengals to stick with the vets (Simmons and Johnson) unless Brooks proves himself very, very reliable in the next couple weeks.