footballman_696969
Footballguy
Is FBG coming out with an article on offensive line rankings this year? I think one came out last year around the same time. Thanks in advance...
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Offensive Line Rankings (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter footballman_696969
- Start date
diesel7982
Footballguy
Kansas City
.
.
.
.
.
.
Everyone else who isnt Arizona
.
.
.
.
.
.
Arizona
.
.
.
.
.
.
Everyone else who isnt Arizona
.
.
.
.
.
.
Arizona
tarheel1unc
Footballguy
Diesel. Very insightful! 
Last edited by a moderator:
vikingdave
Footballguy
Minnesota Vikings.......top 5..........take Chester Taylor
cstu
Footballguy
Chris Smith's ranking's from this thread:
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...opic=240209&hl=
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...opic=240209&hl=
Code:
Rank NFL Team 2006 Overall Grade Run Block Pass Block Depth Cohesion Intang. Exp. Change from '04 Comments1 Cincinnati A A A B A A A same Bengals offensive line has reached the dominant level2 Denver A A A B- A A+ A same Always amongst the best units in the NFL3 Pittsburgh A A B B+ A A A same Young, talented and getting better4 Kansas City A A B- B- A A A+ slightly worse Still dominant but age beginning to show5 Washington B+ B+ B+ C A B A same The starting five is tremendous. Only trouble is in depth6 Chicago B+ B+ B B+ B+ B A same Very solid offensive line with no holes7 NY Giants B+ A B B B B A same Can open up holes with the best lines in football8 Seattle B+ B+ B B B- B+ A worse Will miss Hutchinson but still very good unit9 Philadelphia B B+ C B B B C+ better Great, young talent should improve as year wears on10 Atlanta B B+ C+ C B A+ A same Marginal talent, great schemes and coaching11 Minnesota B B+ C+ B+ C+ B B Much better Hutchinson's presence makes this unit much better12 Miami B B B B C+ A B slightly better Hudson Houck is an unbelievable coach13 Jacksonville B B C+ B C B B better Much better than they played in '0514 Carolina C+ C+ B C B B B same Good scheme and improving talent15 Baltimore C+ C+ C+ B+ B B B better Better than the disasterous 2005 campaign16 New England C+ C+ B C+ C+ B C+ same Solid starting group17 NY Jets C+ C+ B B C C C+ worse Great, young talent. Could be dominant by 200718 Cleveland C+ B C+ C- C B B better Best Browns offensive line in a very long time19 Dallas C+ C+ C+ B C- C+ B same A middle of the pack group now20 San Francisco C+ C+ C+ B C C+ C+ better The 49ers offensive line is improving21 St. Louis C+ B C C+ C+ C+ C+ same Tackle Pace is awesome but questions surround him22 Tampa Bay C+ B C+ C+ C B C better Overachieving group out to prove last year wasn't a fluke23 Houston C B C C+ C- C+ C better Better than some realize. Will improve as year goes on24 Detroit C C C C+ C+ C C+ slightly better Potential is there to be better than this grade25 Oakland C C+ C C C C+ C+ same Must prove they can stay healthy26 Indianapolis C C- C C B B B same Not as good as most think27 Tennessee C C C E C- B+ C worse Rookie tackles will take awhile to get established28 San Diego C B C C C C C+ same Some talent here but lots of question marks29 Arizona C- C C C+ C- C+ C better Much better than '05 but still amongst worst in league30 New Orleans C- C+ C- D D C B worse Will be much better if the hole at tackle is adequately filled31 Green Bay D C- C C+ D C C worse Floundering unit at least one year away from improvement32 Buffalo D C D D D D C+ slightly worse Limited talent and depth impossible to ignore this year
Fear The Turtle
Footballguy
Let me be the first to take issue with the high rankings I've seen in this thread for the Skins' OL. They are fairly solid (but not top 5) when healthy. Health is a major concern, though, as most of the starters are recovering from surgery.
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
Last season the Redskins finished 7th in rushing yardage
9th in YPC
12th in rushing touchdowns
14th in passing attempts per sack
and have five experienced, talented linemen in
RT Jon Jansen, RG Randy Thomas, C Casey Rabach, LG Derrick Dockery, LT Chris Samuels
It's only depth that keeps them out of tier one.
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
Everything is good but Indy...Indy's OL is perceived as good because of Peyton Manning under center.
2005: 16th in rushing yardage (1,703), 24th in YPC (3.7), 6th in rushing touchdowns (18), 1st in PA / sack (25.8)
Tackle Tarik Glenn is clearly the class of this group and he is amongst the best in the NFL today. Center Jeff Saturday is also pretty good. After that the trio of Diem, Scott and Lilja are pedestrian at best.
Manning's smarts help this unit appear better than they are. Nowhere near a top unit.
jurb26
Footballguy
This unit only exicutes what Manning tells them to. When Manning makes the right calls, the are a wall for him and open huge running lanes. When he misses the calls, all hell breaks loose. Manning is smart and all, but it's amazing how smart a QB can look when he doesn't have his mind on a pass rush. When Ds create any bit of pressure and get in his face ala SD and Pitt last year, Payton does not look so smart. Those pass blocking schemes are called out by Manning unlike with most teams where the C calls them out. Or am I getting the wrong info on that?
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
The Colts averaged 3.7 yards per carry last year so I would hardly call them gaping holes to run through.Manning is not only smart enough to get the offensive line to set up correctly at the snap of the ball. He also knows when to unload the ball in a hurry to avoid a sack and he is a master at it against most NFL teams (not named the Steelers and Patriots anyways
). He tends to know exactly what the defense is going to do and he'll get rid of the ball before the pass rush is an issue.The Colts offensive line anywhere else in the league would be immediately identified as a below-average unit. Three of those linemen are lucky to be playing with Manning as he makes them and this entire unit appear better than they are. Very similar to what Dan Marino was able to do with the Dolphins throughout his career.
Dave Baker
Damn glad to meet you
Chris' work with the offensive lines is amongst the best stuff at FBGs.
Only behind my IDP stuff.
The o-line stuff is very much an area where a reader can get a leg up on other owners.
Only behind my IDP stuff.
The o-line stuff is very much an area where a reader can get a leg up on other owners.
My Hope Street Alias
Footballguy
Beg to differ with Chris. The Washington OL situation is 100% NOT a top five situation by any means. Arguably their best lineman, Thomas, is still recovering from significant surgery. Don't even know if they know the timetable for his return yet. Can we assume he'll just pick up where he left off? Rabach and Jansen are also recovering from surgery, with Rabach's the more serious of the two. Depth is even more of a concern than last year now that the Old Man has retired and so many of the starters have question marks.
The best stats that Chris has marshalled to support his claim: 7th in rushing yards, 9th in YPC, and 12th in rushing TDs, etc. don't persuade me that they are deserving of such a lofty ranking, especially considering that those stats were compiled when they were a healthy line last year.
Let's also not forget the Skins dismal offensive performance in last year's playoffs. Is Thomas' return going to make that much (top five) of a difference, even assuming that he comes back completely healthy in time for the start of the season.
The best stats that Chris has marshalled to support his claim: 7th in rushing yards, 9th in YPC, and 12th in rushing TDs, etc. don't persuade me that they are deserving of such a lofty ranking, especially considering that those stats were compiled when they were a healthy line last year.
Let's also not forget the Skins dismal offensive performance in last year's playoffs. Is Thomas' return going to make that much (top five) of a difference, even assuming that he comes back completely healthy in time for the start of the season.
Last edited by a moderator:
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
Some good comments here.However everything I have read this off-season has all five linemen being healthy by training camp.
BTW: Thomas is not the best lineman this unit has. He is behind Samuels, Dockery and Jansen when it comes to blocking ability.
Sure they struggled during the post-season but this unit was banged up by that point and it showed. If they suffer injuries this season the play will slip signficantly but that is true of many OLines and when healthy, it is very difficult to beat this starting five.
If the injuries linger into training camp, my grade for this unit will plummet, but at this point in time I believe I have them slotted in well.
I will re-visit the OLine stuff once training camp arrives to tweak my rankings, thought processes, etc.
My Hope Street Alias
Footballguy
We'll have to agree to disagree, as they say. I say even if completely healthy(which they're not and may not be in 2006), we are not talking about a top five OL here. I've also read nothing to indicate that Thomas is even close to being ready to practice yet. Speaking of Thomas, I did say he was ARGUABLY their best lineman. Among OL afficionados & experts, I'm pretty sure he'd get as many votes for that title as would Jansen or Samuels. He definitely would get more votes than Dockery without question. Another thing that is beyond question is the fact that Portis was hating life once his best sweep leader (Thomas) went down to injury.
mightyeskimo
Footballguy
I agree here completely. Seeing the Pitt blitz just annihilate Indy's offense in the playoffs tells me that with proper coaching, you can break down the Colts line. Manning makes these guys look very good with audibles and quick reads and Edge helped by being an experienced back.
Rovers
Footballguy
First, let me say I think Chris Smith did a very nice job with his O line rankings.... but, nature of the beast, just like last year, I have the same issues with the same team.... The Giants.
They can run block, no doubt, but the tackles on the Giants are over rated here as pass blockers. McKenzie at RT is a very good run blocker, but his feet are in sand when he attempts to pass block. Pettigout, for reasons I just don't understand, is still the most over rated LT in the NFL. The stats don't appear to support my position, but being in NY, I get all the Giants games. It's hard to measure O linemen on stats, and Pettigout is the classic example. Aside from his ten off sides penalties, the stats would indicate he's pretty good. He isn't.
I was VERY surprised the Giants waited until the fourth round to take an OT ( Guy Whimper). The Giants O line doesn't deserve a B in pass blocking IMO. This shortcoming tends to be helped by Barber's versatility as both a rusher and pass reciever. Barber gets this O line out of trouble on a consistant basis, demonstrated by his 50+ receptions every year. So many of those are dump offs because the Giants can't pass protect.....
Until the Giants can give Manning lite better protection, he will remain a late second / early third tier QB. Manning rarely has the time for the WR's to get into their patterns on 7 step drops. This also keeps Burress and Sinorice Moss lower on my WR rankings..... they just don't have time to stretch the defense on a consistant basis.
They can run block, no doubt, but the tackles on the Giants are over rated here as pass blockers. McKenzie at RT is a very good run blocker, but his feet are in sand when he attempts to pass block. Pettigout, for reasons I just don't understand, is still the most over rated LT in the NFL. The stats don't appear to support my position, but being in NY, I get all the Giants games. It's hard to measure O linemen on stats, and Pettigout is the classic example. Aside from his ten off sides penalties, the stats would indicate he's pretty good. He isn't.
I was VERY surprised the Giants waited until the fourth round to take an OT ( Guy Whimper). The Giants O line doesn't deserve a B in pass blocking IMO. This shortcoming tends to be helped by Barber's versatility as both a rusher and pass reciever. Barber gets this O line out of trouble on a consistant basis, demonstrated by his 50+ receptions every year. So many of those are dump offs because the Giants can't pass protect.....
Until the Giants can give Manning lite better protection, he will remain a late second / early third tier QB. Manning rarely has the time for the WR's to get into their patterns on 7 step drops. This also keeps Burress and Sinorice Moss lower on my WR rankings..... they just don't have time to stretch the defense on a consistant basis.
The_Man
Footballguy
I haven't had time to really look into it, but I think continuity along the O Line is a kind of Holy Grail for predicting offensive success.
Number one, if a team isn't replacing any O linemen in the off-season, it's a good indication that they have skilled players in place -- if they weren't all skilled, their team would be looking to upgrade.
Number two, playing alongside the same O linemen for a couple of seasons gives units the chance to work together very effectively and cohesively. Blown responsibilities become very rare.
Look at the lines that had little turnover in recent years -- Seattle, Pittsburgh, KC and Indy come quickly to mind -- and you see very efficient offenses. Look at the lines with lots of turnover - GB last year, Carolina coming off its Super Bowl, Minn last year with Birk dropping out in late pre-season - and you get offensive debacles.
Any thoughts on this? O Line continuity is one reason I like Washington to exel this year and why I wonder if Seattle isn't in for a surpising decline.
Number one, if a team isn't replacing any O linemen in the off-season, it's a good indication that they have skilled players in place -- if they weren't all skilled, their team would be looking to upgrade.
Number two, playing alongside the same O linemen for a couple of seasons gives units the chance to work together very effectively and cohesively. Blown responsibilities become very rare.
Look at the lines that had little turnover in recent years -- Seattle, Pittsburgh, KC and Indy come quickly to mind -- and you see very efficient offenses. Look at the lines with lots of turnover - GB last year, Carolina coming off its Super Bowl, Minn last year with Birk dropping out in late pre-season - and you get offensive debacles.
Any thoughts on this? O Line continuity is one reason I like Washington to exel this year and why I wonder if Seattle isn't in for a surpising decline.
djcolts
Footballguy
The Colts struggle against 3-4 Ds, and generally thrive against 4-3 Ds (Jax is the exception - but they are their main division rival and have two exceptional DTs so that is to be expected). It really is that simple. That is why I'm puzzled that the Texans switched to a 4-3 from a 3-4.
Rovers
Footballguy
Simple answer..... they went out and got a 4-3 system HC. Most coaches have the system they prefer and are comfortable with...... and I think that is a common weakness that almost 100% of NFL coaches have. They install a system, and try to find players that fit, instead of tailoring the system to fit the personnel instead. The Texans drafting M Williams is a classic example. The Jets are doing the same thing, but to what extent remains to be seen. GB is going to zone blocking on offense. Why? Because that is the system the new CS is comfortable with.
I see a lot of coaches come in and attempt to shove the square peg into the round hole, especially on offense. Spurrier, Gibbs, Parcells.... they all do this. Only Belichick is flexable. And, he has the rings to prove that it isn't the system, it's about using the players a team has to best advantage.
redman
Footballguy
I'll join the discussion. Rabach isn't recovering from surgery - he's recovering from lacerations and road rash from an ATV accident back in March IIRC. There were no orthopedic problems to my knowledge and I've heard nothing about complications. This seems like old news to me.Some good comments here.However everything I have read this off-season has all five linemen being healthy by training camp.
BTW: Thomas is not the best lineman this unit has. He is behind Samuels, Dockery and Jansen when it comes to blocking ability.
Sure they struggled during the post-season but this unit was banged up by that point and it showed. If they suffer injuries this season the play will slip signficantly but that is true of many OLines and when healthy, it is very difficult to beat this starting five.
If the injuries linger into training camp, my grade for this unit will plummet, but at this point in time I believe I have them slotted in well.
I will re-visit the OLine stuff once training camp arrives to tweak my rankings, thought processes, etc.
Thomas was indeed the best lineman last year. If you watch game film he was dynamic and dominant and played with a mean streak. It hurt them a lot to lose him, but they could have done worse under the circumstances than Ray Brown.
Jansen played last year - the first year back from reconstructive knee surgery - with two broken thumbs. Aside from the fact that the second year back on a knee tends to be better than the first, two healthy hands will also improve his prospects.
Samuels is all about injury. If his legs are healthy - and they've been the biggest problem over the last 3 years or so - then he's about as good as any LT out there. If not, then he can be beat for sacks. It really is that simple.
Dockery, who is absolutely massive and yet still mobile enough to pull, could be dominant but for some reason doesn't quite reach that potential. Still, he's sturdy at LG.
I agree that depth is a problem.
ChampBailey24
Footballguy
My top 5:
1. KC-Only has a year left as the best OLine
2. Cincy
3. Denver
4. Pitsburgh
5. Seattle
1. KC-Only has a year left as the best OLine
2. Cincy
3. Denver
4. Pitsburgh
5. Seattle
nygiants56
Footballguy
great line in Minny, I'll give you that..but because of the sheer number of RB's on the Vikings roster, won't they cancel each other out?how many carries do you see Taylor getting?
buster c
Footballguy
just to clarify, but Jansen (their best OL, imo) missed 2004 due to an achilles tendon injury, not a knee. and playing with casts on both hands all year in 2005, he was a man among boys.Jansen played last year - the first year back from reconstructive knee surgery - with two broken thumbs. Aside from the fact that the second year back on a knee tends to be better than the first, two healthy hands will also improve his prospects.Some good comments here.However everything I have read this off-season has all five linemen being healthy by training camp.
BTW: Thomas is not the best lineman this unit has. He is behind Samuels, Dockery and Jansen when it comes to blocking ability.
Sure they struggled during the post-season but this unit was banged up by that point and it showed. If they suffer injuries this season the play will slip signficantly but that is true of many OLines and when healthy, it is very difficult to beat this starting five.
If the injuries linger into training camp, my grade for this unit will plummet, but at this point in time I believe I have them slotted in well.
I will re-visit the OLine stuff once training camp arrives to tweak my rankings, thought processes, etc.
redman
Footballguy
just to clarify, but Jansen (their best OL, imo) missed 2004 due to an achilles tendon injury, not a knee. and playing with casts on both hands all year in 2005, he was a man among boys.Jansen played last year - the first year back from reconstructive knee surgery - with two broken thumbs. Aside from the fact that the second year back on a knee tends to be better than the first, two healthy hands will also improve his prospects.Some good comments here.However everything I have read this off-season has all five linemen being healthy by training camp.
BTW: Thomas is not the best lineman this unit has. He is behind Samuels, Dockery and Jansen when it comes to blocking ability.
Sure they struggled during the post-season but this unit was banged up by that point and it showed. If they suffer injuries this season the play will slip signficantly but that is true of many OLines and when healthy, it is very difficult to beat this starting five.
If the injuries linger into training camp, my grade for this unit will plummet, but at this point in time I believe I have them slotted in well.
I will re-visit the OLine stuff once training camp arrives to tweak my rankings, thought processes, etc.
You're right.
Da Good Da Bad an Da Ugly
Footballguy
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Rovers is correct, the Giants pass blocking is awful. Neither tackle is close to being average and last year McKenzie was as bad as anyone at pass protecting. He was basically a turnstile.
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
Good information here Rovers. After reading what you wrote here, I'll take a look at downgrading the grade for the Giants pass blocking category. I knew they were more skilled at run blocking than pass blocking but didn't noticed that the pass protection was terrible in the games I managed to catch last year.Thanks guy
There it is
Footballguy
I'm the same as Chris Smith"s.
Mine are alphebabetical:
Atl
Den
KC
NYG
Pit
SD
Sea
Was
Mine are alphebabetical:
Atl
Den
KC
NYG
Pit
SD
Sea
Was
Last edited by a moderator:
NYG Endzone
Footballguy
There it is
Footballguy
So we pretty much agree. Only we posted it first on FBGs.
redman
Footballguy
With only that correction, I'd agree with the analysis. Rabach is fine as the center. He won't make the Pro Bowl, but that's not necessary. Dockery is shaky at LG, which is maddening to 'Skins fans because he has everything you could want as a LG - massive body, huge strength, and mobility to pull outside on lead blocks. I really have yet to see him dominate anyone, and he actually blocks as if he's a smaller guy sometimes. If he breaks out this year, this line could be special. I also agree that Randy Thomas, who was clearly the best o-lineman last year, doesn't get enough credit.
Last edited by a moderator:
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
It's coming guys. I am currently tweaking some of my earlier thoughts and rounding the updated article into form. It will likely be a subscriber-only feature.There will definitely be some surprises in the mix.
There it is
Footballguy
You guys still tweaking. I expected today to be Christmas in July here. No new info on Mon July 17. ?
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
I know there is stuff coming down the pipeline. Have patience friends
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think the Cleveland Browns upgrades in personel under Crenell over the past 2 years may be somewhat overlooked. All 5 of the starters has at least 5 years experience starting in the league.
In 2005 they added Joe Andruzi from the Pats and Cosey Coleman from Tampa bay. They installed the zone blocking scheme and produced thier 1st 1000 yard Rb ever.
Now this year they added LeCharles Bentley a elite lineman at the critical center position. Bentley is not only a great player but also a leader and excellent tactician who should help the entire unit play better.
Kevin Shaffer comes in a LT from the falcons. He knows the zone blocking scheme the Browns switched to last year. He may not be great but he is at least a upgrade over Shelton and other poor performers the Browns have had manning the position in the past.
The only holdover RT Ryan Tucker has been a good player ever since his days in Green Bay.
I think the unit will be better than people give them credit for.
In 2005 they added Joe Andruzi from the Pats and Cosey Coleman from Tampa bay. They installed the zone blocking scheme and produced thier 1st 1000 yard Rb ever.
Now this year they added LeCharles Bentley a elite lineman at the critical center position. Bentley is not only a great player but also a leader and excellent tactician who should help the entire unit play better.
Kevin Shaffer comes in a LT from the falcons. He knows the zone blocking scheme the Browns switched to last year. He may not be great but he is at least a upgrade over Shelton and other poor performers the Browns have had manning the position in the past.
The only holdover RT Ryan Tucker has been a good player ever since his days in Green Bay.
I think the unit will be better than people give them credit for.
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
Very good comments and you are on the money with the talent level now on the Browns... I have only one problem with this group... Continuity.They will come together and should improve as the year goes on. I do not believe that Shaffer is worth the money the Browns spent and that the incredible system / coaching in Atlanta had much to do with his success. That said, he is a serviceable starter and this unit is the best it's been since the Browns came back.
Post Corner
Footballguy
All due respect to the above rankings, I disagree with them. Really whiffed on some great lines. IMO, two great sources for intense o-line rankings while waiting for FBG:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5794000
http://www.footballdocs.com/2006_oline_rankings.html
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5794000
http://www.footballdocs.com/2006_oline_rankings.html
weasel3515
Footballguy
I agree with most of this except maybe omitting New England and putting Minnesota in there after Atlanta. I think a big difference for Minnesota will not only be Hutchinson, but the addition of Richardson as FB. He will be like a 6th OL back there, a luxury most teams don't have.
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
Still working on the article (takes a long time)...
Here is a sneak peak at my top-sixteen. The actual article grades them in a number of different areas including pass blocking, depth, run blocking, cohension, experience, etc...
Team
Cincinnati Bengals
Denver Broncos
Pittsburgh Steelers
Chicago Bears
Kansas City Chiefs
Washington Redskins
New York Giants
Miami Dolphins
Seattle Seahawks
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Minnesota Vikings
Jacksonville Jaguars
Atlanta Falcons
Baltimore Ravens
Philadelphia Eagles
New England Patriots
Here is a sneak peak at my top-sixteen. The actual article grades them in a number of different areas including pass blocking, depth, run blocking, cohension, experience, etc...
Team
Cincinnati Bengals
Denver Broncos
Pittsburgh Steelers
Chicago Bears
Kansas City Chiefs
Washington Redskins
New York Giants
Miami Dolphins
Seattle Seahawks
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Minnesota Vikings
Jacksonville Jaguars
Atlanta Falcons
Baltimore Ravens
Philadelphia Eagles
New England Patriots
mightyeskimo
Footballguy
Wow Chris! Minny not even in the top 10?!?! I'd really like to hear your reasoning on that!
