****OFFICIAL 2008 Washington Redskins Thread**** (1 Viewer)

[dgreen]

But remember that the bye week was supposed to be a time for introspection and self-study, and new wrinkles were supposed to appear in the offense after that. They haven't come.

I'm not saying these are anything big and great, but here are some new/different things I've seen recently:1) Cooley in the FB position in the I formation and 3 WRs.2) Sellers is more involved with the ball (7 rec the last 3 games). He's actually been the 3rd down back quite a bit the last couple weeks. They even lined him up in the slot on that WR screen to Moss in Seattle.3) Moss has lined up in different places. He's been in the slot in 3 WR sets and started plays in the backfield in some shotgun formations. I don't remember seeing either of those very much earlier in the season.Aside from some Sellers production, none of this has really led to good results, but I think he's trying some new things with the personnel.

 

[T Bell]

But remember that the bye week was supposed to be a time for introspection and self-study, and new wrinkles were supposed to appear in the offense after that. They haven't come.

I'm not saying these are anything big and great, but here are some new/different things I've seen recently:1) Cooley in the FB position in the I formation and 3 WRs.2) Sellers is more involved with the ball (7 rec the last 3 games). He's actually been the 3rd down back quite a bit the last couple weeks. They even lined him up in the slot on that WR screen to Moss in Seattle.3) Moss has lined up in different places. He's been in the slot in 3 WR sets and started plays in the backfield in some shotgun formations. I don't remember seeing either of those very much earlier in the season.Aside from some Sellers production, none of this has really led to good results, but I think he's trying some new things with the personnel.

I had noticed Sellers getting more involved in the passing game. Meh, we'll just have to wait and see, but like I said I'm just not feeling it this year.

 

[Sidewinder16]

I'm not down on Zorn, nor am I blaming him for all of the team's problems. I'm actually excited because I think Zorn can improve. But remember that the bye week was supposed to be a time for introspection and self-study, and new wrinkles were supposed to appear in the offense after that. They haven't come.

And they're actually talking now about scaling back. Pretty sure I read something recently where Zorn said he thought they needed to simplify some of what they were doing because the plays they tried to add over the bye weren't being run well, or something along those lines.

 

[T Bell]

I'm not down on Zorn, nor am I blaming him for all of the team's problems. I'm actually excited because I think Zorn can improve. But remember that the bye week was supposed to be a time for introspection and self-study, and new wrinkles were supposed to appear in the offense after that. They haven't come.

And they're actually talking now about scaling back. Pretty sure I read something recently where Zorn said he thought they needed to simplify some of what they were doing because the plays they tried to add over the bye weren't being run well, or something along those lines.

I heard the same thing. I get that they want to stick with what the team does well, but the problem is that they're already suffering from a degree of predictability on offense, and doesn't help that.

 

[Bankerguy]

The Redskins aren't making the playoffs. It's not even worth talking about. Their losses to the Rams, the Steelers and the Cowboys have effectively ended that dream, and I don't hold out much hope for the Ravens game either. The fact is that it's likely going to take 11 wins to get a Wild Card berth, and the 'Skins are going to finish with 10 wins, tops, IMHO.

Yes, they clearly have an uphill battle, but it doesn't take a crazy scenario for them to get in. They are currently chasing the Cowboys and Falcons. Dallas still has @ PIT, NYG, BAL, and @ PHI. I could see them going 2-2 there and finishing 10-6. Atlanta has @ NO, TB, @ MIN, and STL. I could see them going 2-2 also, making them 10-6. If the Redskins finish 10-6, 3-1 in the last 4, they could get in as long as their one loss is to either BAL or CIN (an AFC team).Right now, I'd rank the likelihood this way:

1. Atlanta - I think they have the best chance to get to 11-5.

2. Washington - They should beat CIN and SF on the road (where the Skins actually play better) and then they'd just need to beat Philly for a good 10-6 chance.

3. Dallas - Their schedule is tough. I don't see them winning this weekend and it's going to be really tough for them to beat NY. I know they are somewhat of a roll recently with Romo back, but they now have some new injuries that are going to make winning difficult with that schedule.

I understand, but I'm just not feeling it. I think Zorn has reached his limits as a play-caller and needs the offseason to upgrade. Remember, he's still a first-timer in that regard. Portis is banged up, and the WR's just aren't ready for prime time. The o-line is over the hill. The defense is banged up too.

I think Zorn's play calling the last few weeks would look a lot better if Portis had been close to 100%. It's no coincidence that once Portis got hurt in the Pittsburgh game, the offense has taken a drastic dive.My only recent gripe about Zorn's playcalling was not having the jumbo package in on the failed 4th and 1 play last week, that sealed the skins fate. I thought it was a horrible decision to have 2 wr's on the field that play, when the run got absolutely stuffed. I know the Skins had success early in the year running/passing out of non-goalline formations, but you just knew that fancy window dressing wasn't going to work against the gmen.

No doubt those things have affected the offense, but let's look at facts:1) Jason Campbell is athletic and throws well on the run, particularly to his right. Where are the designed roll-outs to take pressure off of him and the o-line?

2) Your two biggest problems on offense this season (at least when Portis is healthy) are that your line doesn't pass block all that well, and you don't have a lot of play-making receivers. Why not put Fred Davis onto the field in two-TE sets as he can help both problems and can disguise whether your play call is a run or a pass? Davis gets rave reviews from his defensive teammates and yet doesn't see the field at all? WTF?

3) The WR slip screens don't work anymore. Stop throwing them (much less 3-4 times per game).

4) When's the last time you saw a second half adjustment in the offensive play-calling? I honestly can't remember.

I'm not down on Zorn, nor am I blaming him for all of the team's problems. I'm actually excited because I think Zorn can improve. But remember that the bye week was supposed to be a time for introspection and self-study, and new wrinkles were supposed to appear in the offense after that. They haven't come.

I think we've seen the best the team has to offer on offense this year, and now that teams have adjusted we're feeling it. Zorn needs the offseason to upgrade the offense and himself as play-caller.

Here is my two cents from covering a few Skins games this year.High percentage throws are great and all but to be successful long-term you have to have greater variability. The run game has assisted your efforts greatly in the West Coast style. The problem I see is the O-line not allowing Campbell the time to complete 5 and 7 step drops to get the ball deeper. Opposing team’s play short zones and limit the after catch yards by your receivers.

Chris Cooley has been used incorrectly imo. Why is he not getting more seem routes to run by mismatched LB’s? The staple play I see so much is the play action fake hand off to Portis and Cambell rolls backside to Cooley. Teams are on to this.

I would assume that OT are high on the draft priority list. The players at the skill positions are good to very good by NFL standards. Your offense is just not getting the time to stretch defenses vertically to open up some the great stuff you can also do underneath.

 

[dgreen]

Chris Cooley has been used incorrectly imo. Why is he not getting more seem routes to run by mismatched LB’s?

He was open on a route straight down the middle of the field against the Giants last week. It probably would have been a long TD. I can't remember when it was, but I remember it was a 3rd down and Campbell went elsewhere, short of the sticks. Cooley walked off the field looking pretty pissed. I was at the game, so I'm not sure if this was shown on tv or not.

 

[Marvelous]

The Redskins aren't making the playoffs. It's not even worth talking about. Their losses to the Rams, the Steelers and the Cowboys have effectively ended that dream, and I don't hold out much hope for the Ravens game either. The fact is that it's likely going to take 11 wins to get a Wild Card berth, and the 'Skins are going to finish with 10 wins, tops, IMHO.

Yes, they clearly have an uphill battle, but it doesn't take a crazy scenario for them to get in. They are currently chasing the Cowboys and Falcons. Dallas still has @ PIT, NYG, BAL, and @ PHI. I could see them going 2-2 there and finishing 10-6. Atlanta has @ NO, TB, @ MIN, and STL. I could see them going 2-2 also, making them 10-6. If the Redskins finish 10-6, 3-1 in the last 4, they could get in as long as their one loss is to either BAL or CIN (an AFC team).Right now, I'd rank the likelihood this way:

1. Atlanta - I think they have the best chance to get to 11-5.

2. Washington - They should beat CIN and SF on the road (where the Skins actually play better) and then they'd just need to beat Philly for a good 10-6 chance.

3. Dallas - Their schedule is tough. I don't see them winning this weekend and it's going to be really tough for them to beat NY. I know they are somewhat of a roll recently with Romo back, but they now have some new injuries that are going to make winning difficult with that schedule.

I understand, but I'm just not feeling it. I think Zorn has reached his limits as a play-caller and needs the offseason to upgrade. Remember, he's still a first-timer in that regard. Portis is banged up, and the WR's just aren't ready for prime time. The o-line is over the hill. The defense is banged up too.

There is a big difference between not feeling it and saying flat out they won't make the playoffs. Most likely, 10-6 will make it. Of course, this weeks game against the Raven's D is looking like another mismatch to me. Even if the Redskins make the playoffs, they cannot go far. Their offense just simply cannot perform against the better defense.

 

[cstu]

The Redskins aren't making the playoffs. It's not even worth talking about. Their losses to the Rams, the Steelers and the Cowboys have effectively ended that dream, and I don't hold out much hope for the Ravens game either. The fact is that it's likely going to take 11 wins to get a Wild Card berth, and the 'Skins are going to finish with 10 wins, tops, IMHO.

Yes, they clearly have an uphill battle, but it doesn't take a crazy scenario for them to get in. They are currently chasing the Cowboys and Falcons. Dallas still has @ PIT, NYG, BAL, and @ PHI. I could see them going 2-2 there and finishing 10-6. Atlanta has @ NO, TB, @ MIN, and STL. I could see them going 2-2 also, making them 10-6. If the Redskins finish 10-6, 3-1 in the last 4, they could get in as long as their one loss is to either BAL or CIN (an AFC team).Right now, I'd rank the likelihood this way:

1. Atlanta - I think they have the best chance to get to 11-5.

2. Washington - They should beat CIN and SF on the road (where the Skins actually play better) and then they'd just need to beat Philly for a good 10-6 chance.

3. Dallas - Their schedule is tough. I don't see them winning this weekend and it's going to be really tough for them to beat NY. I know they are somewhat of a roll recently with Romo back, but they now have some new injuries that are going to make winning difficult with that schedule.

What has to happen for the Redskins to make the playoffs (if the Falcons go 10-6):1. At least go 10-6 (finish 3-1)

2. Beat the Eagles and 49ers

3. Beat either the Ravens or Bengals

4. The Cowboys have to lose to the Giants or Eagles

5. The Cowboys have to lose to the Steelers or Ravens - CHECK

If all that happens they'll win the tie-breaker with the Cowboys in the 3-way tie with the Falcons (3-3 division record, 8-6 common games, 8-4 vs. 7-5 conference record).

The Falcons won't win the tie-breaker against the Redskins at 10-6 since that would mean they lose 2 of the 4 remaining conference games and finish with a 7-5 conference record.

 

[T Bell]

[placeholder for vindictive dallas428 and {Syrus} smack after the Cowboys folded vs. the Steelers]

Crazy prediction- the word "Zorny" is going to show up in one of dallas428's posts. I know, I know, that one's out of left field, but I'm going with my gut here.

 

[cstu]

Huge game for the Redskins tonight - a win puts them on easy street for the playoffs.

 

[fatness]

[placeholder for vindictive dallas428 and {Syrus} smack after the Cowboys folded vs. the Steelers]

Since we know he'll be here, this is the Cowboy's upcoming schedule in case he hasn't looked:NY GiantsBaltimore Ravens@ Philadelphia Eagles

 

[fatness]

Huge game for the Redskins tonight - a win puts them on easy street for the playoffs.

I have serious doubts about tonight's game against the Ravens. I think the Ravens are another defense that will get the better of the Redskins' O-line, and that both running and passing games will suffer. I do think the Redskins' defense can hold down the Ravens if they're not on the field all game. This one may be 14-12.

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

Do you know that the Lions have more points for then us. Something needs to change NOW!!!!!!!

 

[cstu]

Do you know that the Lions have more points for then us. Something needs to change NOW!!!!!!!

Only outscoring the Bengals, Raiders and Rams. :

 

[dgreen]

oof

 

[fatness]

Something needs to change NOW!!!!!!!

At this point in the season there is not much that can change in a positive way. Almost the entire O-line is hurt. It'll be interesting to see how Zorn handles this adversity.

 

[dgreen]

Is it just me or does the team look uninspired recently?

 

[T Bell]

Is it just me or does the team look uninspired recently?

On offense, yes, but I don't sense anyone quitting. They're just getting outplayed, and maybe outcoached. On defense I think the team looks like it's into the game. Unfortunately this team is reminding me of that miserable 2004 season, except that our defense was better that year.

 

[T Bell]

The Redskins aren't making the playoffs. It's not even worth talking about. Their losses to the Rams, the Steelers and the Cowboys have effectively ended that dream, and I don't hold out much hope for the Ravens game either. The fact is that it's likely going to take 11 wins to get a Wild Card berth, and the 'Skins are going to finish with 10 wins, tops, IMHO.

Yes, they clearly have an uphill battle, but it doesn't take a crazy scenario for them to get in. They are currently chasing the Cowboys and Falcons. Dallas still has @ PIT, NYG, BAL, and @ PHI. I could see them going 2-2 there and finishing 10-6. Atlanta has @ NO, TB, @ MIN, and STL. I could see them going 2-2 also, making them 10-6. If the Redskins finish 10-6, 3-1 in the last 4, they could get in as long as their one loss is to either BAL or CIN (an AFC team).Right now, I'd rank the likelihood this way:

1. Atlanta - I think they have the best chance to get to 11-5.

2. Washington - They should beat CIN and SF on the road (where the Skins actually play better) and then they'd just need to beat Philly for a good 10-6 chance.

3. Dallas - Their schedule is tough. I don't see them winning this weekend and it's going to be really tough for them to beat NY. I know they are somewhat of a roll recently with Romo back, but they now have some new injuries that are going to make winning difficult with that schedule.

I understand, but I'm just not feeling it. I think Zorn has reached his limits as a play-caller and needs the offseason to upgrade. Remember, he's still a first-timer in that regard. Portis is banged up, and the WR's just aren't ready for prime time. The o-line is over the hill. The defense is banged up too.

There is a big difference between not feeling it and saying flat out they won't make the playoffs. Most likely, 10-6 will make it. Of course, this weeks game against the Raven's D is looking like another mismatch to me. Even if the Redskins make the playoffs, they cannot go far. Their offense just simply cannot perform against the better defense.

I think we're saying the same thing generally, but last night was a great representation of what I was saying earlier.

 

[dgreen]

I wonder why the Dolphins let Jason Taylor go?

 

[T Bell]

I wonder why the Dolphins let Jason Taylor go?

It's not worked out for the team, but I'm not down on the trade. He's played (for the most part) through two injuries to his legs after having been one of the most healthy and reliable DE's in football over the last decade. I think his legs aren't 100% even still, and he has no explosion. I still see him hustling out there, and amazingly, even though he's been limited, he's still a factor at least in batting down balls. Would we have been bashing the team for acquiring London Fletcher last year if he'd gotten injured? I do think Blache can do more to mix up how he lines up, as that seems to help free him up to get pressure when they've done that.

 

[dgreen]

I wonder why the Dolphins let Jason Taylor go?

It's not worked out for the team, but I'm not down on the trade. He's played (for the most part) through two injuries to his legs after having been one of the most healthy and reliable DE's in football over the last decade. I think his legs aren't 100% even still, and he has no explosion. I still see him hustling out there, and amazingly, even though he's been limited, he's still a factor at least in batting down balls. Would we have been bashing the team for acquiring London Fletcher last year if he'd gotten injured? I do think Blache can do more to mix up how he lines up, as that seems to help free him up to get pressure when they've done that.

Whatever the reason, he's not productive. If it's injury, then he shouldn't be playing. If it's not injury, then he shouldn't be playing as much and the trade looks horrible. He's getting absolutely nowhere near the QB. I agree he's hustling, but his hustling seems to be a step behind. Again, whatever the reason for that, it's not working. The batted balls are nice, but hardly worth the price to get him.And, Fletcher is somewhat injured right now. He hasn't really practiced the last few weeks and isn't at full speed. Yet, he still makes some impact on a game.Agreed about Blache. We've seen some 5 DL formations recently, but that hasn't helped. If he's going to have Taylor on the field a lot, he needs to find some other way to use him. Injury or no injury, he currently can't beat a tackle one-on-one.

 

[fatness]

This is a long column by Jason LaCanfora, and it is worth reading. It's not fun reading, it's kind of like having your nose rubbed in the litter box. But he's more correct than off-base. Link

We've covered the issues that have been begging to be addressed -- the offensive and defensive lines and the lack of offensive playmakers. Responsibility for those deficiencies starts at the very top of the organization and rests with Daniel Snyder and Vinny Cerrato. But in the loss to the Ravens, there again was a failure of scheme and far too few players looked to be up to the task of competing against a more physical opponent.

The Redskins aren't close. The offensive and defensive lines are collapsing again. It's time to rebuild and that can't be put off another year. The front office can't kid itself that the team is just an Ocho Stinko or a Lance Briggs away. The Redskins' starting offense was healthier than any in the NFL through 12½ weeks -- losing just one real man game to injury -- so don't let the latest Chris Samuels and Jon Jansen injuries convince you it's just a matter of guys getting nicked up. That's football. And the results speak for themselves.

If Chris Samuels is lost for the season -- and I got the sense in the locker room that that is a very real possibility -- the Redskins might not win another game this season.

rookie coach Jim Coach Zorn suddenly finds himself in the middle of a maelstrom. Perhaps those who believed all along that he was wearing too many hats are right. Perhaps those who believed he was he was being put into a position to fail are right. Whatever happens to be the case, this offense is indeed failing.

Beyond personnel, the decision to use Mike Sellers as the third-down pass protector over Portis, banged up or not, was stunning. Putting Justin Geigsinger at left tackle with no help from a tight end against Terrell Suggs was stupefying, even for one play. Not running more two tight-end sets with Geisinger and Stephon Heyer as your tackles was a major surprise. Not opting to go no-huddle in the third quarter, not rolling Jason Campbell out more, not going to the screen-pass game before the end of the first half was odd.

it's now Year 5 of the defense carrying the offense and the paltry scoring output is resembling 2004

The offense can't handle big, aggressive defenses that punch teams in the mouth with the blitz,

they can't knock a quarterback down with a two-by-four.

 

[fatness]

Chris Samuels' teammates say the Pro Bowl left tackle is done for the year with a torn right triceps. We're still awaiting official confirmation from the Redskins. Right tackle Jon Jansen has a sprained right knee but told teammates that he hopes to play Sunday at Cincinnati.

Link

 

[T Bell]

If Chris Samuels is lost for the season -- and I got the sense in the locker room that that is a very real possibility -- the Redskins might not win another game this season.

Chris Samuels' teammates say the Pro Bowl left tackle is done for the year with a torn right triceps. We're still awaiting official confirmation from the Redskins. Right tackle Jon Jansen has a sprained right knee but told teammates that he hopes to play Sunday at Cincinnati.

Link

Yep, that pretty much ends the season as the left side of that line is the backbone when Samuels is healthy. I guess we're going to see what Reinhart can do now.

 

[dgreen]

far too few players looked to be up to the task of competing against a more physical opponent.

The offense can't handle big, aggressive defenses that punch teams in the mouth with the blitz,

This, to me, is the most disappointing thing. Say what you will about Gibbs 2.0, but he fielded a tough, physical team with fight. Even in that ugly 2004 season, you saw a lot of fight and big change in attitude from previous seasons under Spurrier. I won't say this team is anywhere near the Spurrier level of physicality, but they also aren't on the Gibbs level.

 

[dgreen]

If Chris Samuels is lost for the season -- and I got the sense in the locker room that that is a very real possibility -- the Redskins might not win another game this season.

Chris Samuels' teammates say the Pro Bowl left tackle is done for the year with a torn right triceps. We're still awaiting official confirmation from the Redskins. Right tackle Jon Jansen has a sprained right knee but told teammates that he hopes to play Sunday at Cincinnati.

Link

Yep, that pretty much ends the season as the left side of that line is the backbone when Samuels is healthy. I guess we're going to see what Reinhart can do now.

If Jansen can play, I'd guess he starts at RT and Heyer at LT.

 

[T Bell]

If Chris Samuels is lost for the season -- and I got the sense in the locker room that that is a very real possibility -- the Redskins might not win another game this season.

Chris Samuels' teammates say the Pro Bowl left tackle is done for the year with a torn right triceps. We're still awaiting official confirmation from the Redskins. Right tackle Jon Jansen has a sprained right knee but told teammates that he hopes to play Sunday at Cincinnati.

Link

Yep, that pretty much ends the season as the left side of that line is the backbone when Samuels is healthy. I guess we're going to see what Reinhart can do now.

If Jansen can play, I'd guess he starts at RT and Heyer at LT.

That's probably what they'll do, but I'd still like to use the rest of this season to have a look at Rinehart and Fred Davis.

 

[DCThunder]

If anybody heard Polin, Sheehan and Riggins on the Monday Moring QB Show on 980 today, they were starting to beat the drums to fire Zorn. If it were up to Andy Poli he'd be gone today. Riggins is "undecided" and Sheehan is "stay the course". Andy maintains that Zorn has "lost the locker room" because CP is pouting and that for this, he needs to go, especially if they lose out.

 

[T Bell]

If anybody heard Polin, Sheehan and Riggins on the Monday Moring QB Show on 980 today, they were starting to beat the drums to fire Zorn. If it were up to Andy Poli he'd be gone today. Riggins is "undecided" and Sheehan is "stay the course". Andy maintains that Zorn has "lost the locker room" because CP is pouting and that for this, he needs to go, especially if they lose out.

Idiots. Even ignoring that I like Zorn and the direction he's trying to take the team in, the last thing this organization needs is to start firing head coaches willy nilly again.

 

[dgreen]

If anybody heard Polin, Sheehan and Riggins on the Monday Moring QB Show on 980 today, they were starting to beat the drums to fire Zorn. If it were up to Andy Poli he'd be gone today. Riggins is "undecided" and Sheehan is "stay the course". Andy maintains that Zorn has "lost the locker room" because CP is pouting and that for this, he needs to go, especially if they lose out.

Idiots.

That's pretty much a given with those guys.

Even ignoring that I like Zorn and the direction he's trying to take the team in, the last thing this organization needs is to start firing head coaches willy nilly again.

Yep. In Snyder's dumbest move ever, he fired Norv in a similar situation in 2000. If anyone thinks the team might be somewhat disinterested now, that would quadruple if they fired Zorn now.IF they can win their last 3, they still have a chance at the playoffs. They can't make moves now that act as if they've been eliminated.

 

[fatness]

It's a bit unrealistic to be talking about the playoffs. Some possibilities exist in mathematics but not in the real world.

 

[fatness]

I think there's a reason we haven't seen Rinehart. And that the reason is he's nowhere close to being able to play at game level yet.

If Jansen is out also, who fills in for him? Fabini? Geisinger? Extra TE's to help with blocking?

 

[Marvelous]

Something needs to change NOW!!!!!!!

At this point in the season there is not much that can change in a positive way. Almost the entire O-line is hurt. It'll be interesting to see how Zorn handles this adversity.

I just heard on the radio that Samuels is out for the year. Jansen is getting an MRI on his knee.Recently someone said they wanted to see Heyer and Reinhart in the line up to see if they are future starters. They may get their wish really soon.

 

[fatness]

This, to me, is the most disappointing thing. Say what you will about Gibbs 2.0, but he fielded a tough, physical team with fight.

I don't think it is the "fight" in the team that is the problem. The linemen are just old. And broken-down. And cannot compete physically against much of the competition any more.

 

[Marvelous]

Is it just me or does the team look uninspired recently?

I told Mrs. Marvelous last night, as the season goes on, the play calling looks more and more like it did under Gibbs last year.

 

[T Bell]

I think there's a reason we haven't seen Rinehart. And that the reason is he's nowhere close to being able to play at game level yet.

Again, I think regarding Rinehart you're forgetting that the team views him as a guard, and not a tackle. Whatever else they are and have been (or are not or haven't been), our OG's have remained healthy all year.

 

[Marvelous]

If anybody heard Polin, Sheehan and Riggins on the Monday Moring QB Show on 980 today, they were starting to beat the drums to fire Zorn. If it were up to Andy Poli he'd be gone today. Riggins is "undecided" and Sheehan is "stay the course". Andy maintains that Zorn has "lost the locker room" because CP is pouting and that for this, he needs to go, especially if they lose out.

Idiots. Even ignoring that I like Zorn and the direction he's trying to take the team in, the last thing this organization needs is to start firing head coaches willy nilly again.

I thought hiring Zorn was extremely risky, but he has far exceeded any reasonable expectations. He just can't meet the expectations after beating Dallas and Philly on the road and starting 4-1.

 

[T Bell]

This, to me, is the most disappointing thing. Say what you will about Gibbs 2.0, but he fielded a tough, physical team with fight.

I don't think it is the "fight" in the team that is the problem. The linemen are just old. And broken-down. And cannot compete physically against much of the competition any more.

<_<And on the defensive line, their play makers are either broken down physically (Griffin), or are the smallest guys out there and are getting manhandled by physical linemen (Carter and Taylor).

 

[Marvelous]

I think there's a reason we haven't seen Rinehart. And that the reason is he's nowhere close to being able to play at game level yet.

Again, I think regarding Rinehart you're forgetting that the team views him as a guard, and not a tackle. Whatever else they are and have been (or are not or haven't been), our OG's have remained healthy all year.

I am pretty sure in the preseason Rinehart (I will start spelling his name right) worked at both guard and tackle. It was clear yesterday they preferred Geisinger over Fabini at tackle, at least in a pinch.

 

[T Bell]

If anybody heard Polin, Sheehan and Riggins on the Monday Moring QB Show on 980 today, they were starting to beat the drums to fire Zorn. If it were up to Andy Poli he'd be gone today. Riggins is "undecided" and Sheehan is "stay the course". Andy maintains that Zorn has "lost the locker room" because CP is pouting and that for this, he needs to go, especially if they lose out.

Idiots. Even ignoring that I like Zorn and the direction he's trying to take the team in, the last thing this organization needs is to start firing head coaches willy nilly again.

I thought hiring Zorn was extremely risky, but he has far exceeded any reasonable expectations. He just can't meet the expectations after beating Dallas and Philly on the road and starting 4-1.

Agreed that inflated expectations are working against him now. The irony is that it was his fresh approach to the offense and the play-calling that made the offense - for a while - look better than it was.

 

[T Bell]

I think there's a reason we haven't seen Rinehart. And that the reason is he's nowhere close to being able to play at game level yet.

Again, I think regarding Rinehart you're forgetting that the team views him as a guard, and not a tackle. Whatever else they are and have been (or are not or haven't been), our OG's have remained healthy all year.

I am pretty sure in the preseason Rinehart (I will start spelling his name right) worked at both guard and tackle. It was clear yesterday they preferred Geisinger over Fabini at tackle, at least in a pinch.

Yeah, that was bizarre, especially considering that Fabini is a natural OT who had to learn OG last year on the fly after Thomas' injury. I don't understand why they put Geisinger in there over him. Regarding Rinehart, remember that he's also the least experienced OL on the team, and it's been pretty rare when Buges has played rookies over the years. Aside from the phenomenal rookie class in 1981, he basically has only done when he's had to due to injuries.

 

[DCThunder]

One of the things that struck me about last night's game was how Madden kept going on and on about the "genius" of Cam Cameron (didn't he get fired here as QB coach under Norv???) and his "unbalanced line" and how unorthodox that was. If Zorn is so much of an offensive whiz, why don't we ever run anything like that? Same thing with the D. They kept harping about the "overload on the blitz"? Why don't we do something like that to get some pass rush pressure.

Gibbs may be gone, but this team STILL has his imprint and to some extent his personality. Keeping all the run schemes from Gibbs was proof of that. Didn't they realize the Counter-Trey blocking schemes don't work anymore. Can't Buges coach any other way? Let Zorn hire his own line coach (Buges, time to go out to pasture) and maybe an OC too. Or maybe the West Coast Offense isn't the holy grail that it seems to be and it's time for the offense to try something revolutionary.

Either way, scoring 10 points a game won't win at any level.

 

[buster c]

Fabini was not active last night, so #68 (forgive me Russ Grimm) got the nod.

I watched the post-game and listened to the Czabe (crackly AM 1370 out of Ballmer) and The 980 clowns and have a few observations:

before they called time-out for the 4th down play where ARE scored, Czabe noted that Zorn could be seen saying in his headset 'what down is it?' this, if true, is deeply troubling.

on my beautiful LCD, I can identify line play soooo much better than before. I will say that #77 Thomas is finished. He is getting tossed around like a rag doll on half the plays. Rabach is only a tad better than Corey Raymer at his worst. Jansen we all know is done. Kendall seems to do his job. Samuels is the best lineman we have.

Maybe it's by design, but far too often I see linemen releasing DL's to move to the next level and the free DL makes the play all the time. Happened to Jansen last week on the 4th down play (Tuck waltzed by him to stop CP cold) and it went on again last night. Buges?

in summary, the problem is all because Vinny drafted 3 stiff receivers in round 2 instead of where our need was, on the lines. but he licks Danny's starfish just the way he likes it, so we'll just have to suffer.

 

[dgreen]

before they called time-out for the 4th down play where ARE scored, Czabe noted that Zorn could be seen saying in his headset 'what down is it?' this, if true, is deeply troubling.

Can't say I noticed what Zorn was saying, but I was annoyed by the timeout. Why does almost every coach have to take a timeout before going for a 4th down? It's really annoying. Just call a freakin' play and save that timeout.

Maybe it's by design, but far too often I see linemen releasing DL's to move to the next level and the free DL makes the play all the time. Happened to Jansen last week on the 4th down play (Tuck waltzed by him to stop CP cold) and it went on again last night. Buges?

I noticed that against Pittsburgh. The entire OL would be 5 yards downfield while the entire Steelers' DL would be waiting for Portis at the LOS.

 

[T Bell]

in summary, the problem is all because Vinny drafted 3 stiff receivers in round 2 instead of where our need was, on the lines. but he licks Danny's starfish just the way he likes it, so we'll just have to suffer.

People seem to assume that a good 2008 draft would have solved all of the team's problems when they make comments like this (not singling you out here - there are others who make this sort of argument), but the problem is that I think that that's a false assumption. The team came into this year needing both young OL's and some more playmakers at WR, not to mention DL. Even ignoring the whole issue of what players were available at what spot in the draft, their draft approach (hopefully) addressed the WR's and still got them Rinehart to help the OL. That's not bad. They're in the middle of a multi-year upgrade job no matter how things got sliced.

 

[T Bell]

before they called time-out for the 4th down play where ARE scored, Czabe noted that Zorn could be seen saying in his headset 'what down is it?' this, if true, is deeply troubling.

Can't say I noticed what Zorn was saying, but I was annoyed by the timeout. Why does almost every coach have to take a timeout before going for a 4th down? It's really annoying. Just call a freakin' play and save that timeout.

Completely agree and was thinking the same thing last night when that happened.

 

[thayman]

in summary, the problem is all because Vinny drafted 3 stiff receivers in round 2 instead of where our need was, on the lines. but he licks Danny's starfish just the way he likes it, so we'll just have to suffer.

People seem to assume that a good 2008 draft would have solved all of the team's problems when they make comments like this (not singling you out here - there are others who make this sort of argument), but the problem is that I think that that's a false assumption. The team came into this year needing both young OL's and some more playmakers at WR, not to mention DL. Even ignoring the whole issue of what players were available at what spot in the draft, their draft approach (hopefully) addressed the WR's and still got them Rinehart to help the OL. That's not bad. They're in the middle of a multi-year upgrade job no matter how things got sliced.

This is something that is key. I think a lot of people (myself included) forgot this.

 

[DCThunder]

in summary, the problem is all because Vinny drafted 3 stiff receivers in round 2 instead of where our need was, on the lines. but he licks Danny's starfish just the way he likes it, so we'll just have to suffer.

People seem to assume that a good 2008 draft would have solved all of the team's problems when they make comments like this (not singling you out here - there are others who make this sort of argument), but the problem is that I think that that's a false assumption. The team came into this year needing both young OL's and some more playmakers at WR, not to mention DL. Even ignoring the whole issue of what players were available at what spot in the draft, their draft approach (hopefully) addressed the WR's and still got them Rinehart to help the OL. That's not bad. They're in the middle of a multi-year upgrade job no matter how things got sliced.

This is something that is key. I think a lot of people (myself included) forgot this.

The problem with this is that it assumes that the 2 WRs drafted this year will turn out to be good players. Nothing I've seen so far indicates that this is true. Sure, Kelly's been hurt and Thomas is very young, but if both are busts or semi-busts (Rod Gardener/Michael Westbrook, anyone?) then we still need a playmaker upgrade on O and the line issues haven't been addressed. And what's up with Fred Davis?

 

[dgreen]

before they called time-out for the 4th down play where ARE scored, Czabe noted that Zorn could be seen saying in his headset 'what down is it?' this, if true, is deeply troubling.

Can't say I noticed what Zorn was saying, but I was annoyed by the timeout. Why does almost every coach have to take a timeout before going for a 4th down? It's really annoying. Just call a freakin' play and save that timeout.

Completely agree and was thinking the same thing last night when that happened.

I've been thinking recently that they, along with almost every other team, should really work in practice on surprise situations. There is always so much confusion when a team goes for it on 4th down. The coach needs to practice this as well. Given a 40 second clock, he needs to decide in the first 10 seconds and the players need to be able to handle a quick substitution and playcall.Oh, and another really disappointing moment last night was having to call a TO to avoid a delay of game penalty after getting a delay of game penalty.Oh, and one more thing , why do we have the slowest hurry-up offense in the league? I swear some teams can huddle and get to the line faster than we can run a hurry up.