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*** Official 2012-13 Hot Stove Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eephus
- Start date
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Guest
Guest
Eephus
Footballguy
speaking of always injured, Nick Johnson is retiring
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Guest
What's the biggest differential in OBP vs BA other than the Barry Bonds juice days? Johnson's 2008 .220 / .415 and 2010 .167 / .388 in about 100 PAs each is pretty remarkable. 72 ABs, 12 Hs, and 24 BBs. So weird.
the moops
Footballguy
That is remarkable. McGwire must have some big discrepancies as well. Maybe Ricky Henderson. Jack Clark?
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
Never understood why this guy did not ever make an effort to drop 30-40 pounds since that was such a big factor in his endless injuries.Dude had a great swing (reminded me of Mark Grace), and obviously a great eye. But, his body just couldn't handle all that lard.
the moops
Footballguy
I think he had a broken leg and broken wrist that derailed most of his career. Not really fat people injuries
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Unless you slip on a cake.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Rickey Henderson didn't strike out enough to kill his average.Jack Cust and Adam Dunn always had pretty big splits.
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Guest
Tried looking for this this morning. Someone calculated the biggest differentials for ratio of OBP/BA. If Johnson had had enough plate appearances to qualify, he would've led the list. I also don't see anyone over the .200 increase mark other than Bonds in 2004. The closest are Gary Sheffield, surprisingly enough, who went .250 / .424 and Max Bishop at a nearly identical .252 / .426. Bonds also did it in 2002 with .370/.582. Even Cust & Dunn top out around a .150 difference.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
New PED story
Nothing all that shocking in there. A couple of guys who are already known users (Grandal, Melky Cabrera) and a lot of new evidence of A-Rod continuing to use. Two big new names not previously linked to PEDS: Nelson Cruz and Gio Gonzalez. But they don't have them caught dead like they do with A-Rod, all they have on them is a couple cryptic notes in a ledger.
Nothing all that shocking in there. A couple of guys who are already known users (Grandal, Melky Cabrera) and a lot of new evidence of A-Rod continuing to use. Two big new names not previously linked to PEDS: Nelson Cruz and Gio Gonzalez. But they don't have them caught dead like they do with A-Rod, all they have on them is a couple cryptic notes in a ledger.
Wrigley
Footballguy
wonder if they used A-Rod as A-Rods nickname?
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Guest
Jesus, that's a long story
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Must be devastating for Power Monster to see his boy continue to shame the game like this
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Bogart
Footballguy
Rips that scab right off again. But funny.'Good said:
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Colon takes one of the lesser regarded steroids which allows you to put on 200 lbs. while retaining marginal flexibility.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
In an attempt to get younger, Yankees close to deal with Travis Hafner.
derek245583
Footballguy
'Northern Voice said:
I LOL'ed 3 times on this very page. 
Michael Brown
Footballguy
Looks like we're finally making a conscious effort to steer clear of any guys with steroid ties!'Northern Voice said:
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Braves agree to an extension of 4/40 with Prado.
the moops
Footballguy
Did he get traded back to Atlanta already? Crazy4/40 for Prado seems like a good deal to me.Braves agree to an extension of 4/40 with Prado.
Eephus
Footballguy
The first year is his last arbitration year so the Dbacks are essentially buying his first three years of FA. Considering he'd probably get around $7-8M in arbitration, it's more like a 3/$33M extension. Either way, it's not bad unless he falls off a cliff or something. Prado's flexibility is an asset that allows Arizona to move him around to fill organizational gaps over the next four years.Did he get traded back to Atlanta already? Crazy4/40 for Prado seems like a good deal to me.Braves agree to an extension of 4/40 with Prado.
shadyridr
Footballguy
why is that bad? hes a good ballplayer and plays multiple positionsBraves agree to an extension of 4/40 with Prado.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
If Prado was under contract for 4/40 at the time of the trade it probably would have been seen differently. Braves get a 25 year old with a combined WAR over the last three seasons of 11.9 who is under control for three more years at ten per. D-Backs get a 29 year old with a combined WAR over the last three seasons of 11.8 under control for four more years at ten per, plus the lineup flexibility Prado provides, plus quality prospects. Not so bad.The first year is his last arbitration year so the Dbacks are essentially buying his first three years of FA. Considering he'd probably get around $7-8M in arbitration, it's more like a 3/$33M extension. Either way, it's not bad unless he falls off a cliff or something. Prado's flexibility is an asset that allows Arizona to move him around to fill organizational gaps over the next four years.Did he get traded back to Atlanta already? Crazy4/40 for Prado seems like a good deal to me.Braves agree to an extension of 4/40 with Prado.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
What does one have to do with the other?
RnR
Footballguy
Capps as a 7th inning guy isn't bad. Capps as your closer is bad. #twinsproblems
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
Ah yes I see.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Tell us about their starting pitching if you would.
RnR
Footballguy
Masterson, Ubaldo, Myers, Bauer, McAllister isn't awful, especially if Ubaldo sees some bounce-back and Bauer is really ready to contribute. I think Francona can best the 68 wins from a year ago. I'm not saying they are going to beat El Tigres or anything like that.Tell us about their starting pitching if you would.
Eephus
Footballguy
They were .500 after 100 games in 2012 and then went 18-44 to close the season. I think they've improved the major league roster for 2013 without gutting their (mediocre) farm system or breaking the bank. Their payroll should be right around where it was last year.Masterson, Ubaldo, Myers, Bauer, McAllister isn't awful, especially if Ubaldo sees some bounce-back and Bauer is really ready to contribute. I think Francona can best the 68 wins from a year ago. I'm not saying they are going to beat El Tigres or anything like that.Tell us about their starting pitching if you would.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
With a few breaks they could finish ahead of the Twins.Masterson, Ubaldo, Myers, Bauer, McAllister isn't awful, especially if Ubaldo sees some bounce-back and Bauer is really ready to contribute. I think Francona can best the 68 wins from a year ago. I'm not saying they are going to beat El Tigres or anything like that.Tell us about their starting pitching if you would.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Latest A-Rod news:
Also, per mlbtraderumors: Rodriguez intends to recover from his hip operation and play out the remaining five years on his contract, Yahoo's Tim Brown reports. "Alex is working diligently on his rehabilitation and looks forward to getting back on the field as soon as possible," one source close to Rodriguez told Brown. The third baseman has not heard from MLB or from the Yankees since this week's news broke. Rodriguez doesn't have interest in a discounted buyout and probably wouldn't approve a trade away from the Yankees.Alex Rodriguez’s Yankees career could be over. The third baseman is unlikely to play for the Yankees again, no matter what happens with allegations linking him to a supplier of performance enhancing drugs, Bill Madden, Christian Red and Teri Thompson of the New York Daily News report.* Spoiler article from ESPN.
MIAMI -- The texts, the source said, usually came late at night, telling Anthony Bosch to come to the house. Bosch would then head to the waterfront mansion on Biscayne Bay, through the gate on North Bay Road, to inject performance-enhancing drugs into Alex Rodriguez.Procedures were different, though, sources told "Outside the Lines," for the other athletes who were customers of Bosch's Biogenesis of America clinic in Coral Gables, which Major League Baseball considers the center of a widespread doping operation in South Florida. Those athletes, sources said, relied on intermediaries to transport the performance-enhancing drug regimens Bosch provided.But for A-Rod, the service was always personal: "Only Tony handled A-Rod," one source told "Outside the Lines."The visits took place every few weeks. One night last spring, a source said, Bosch told associates he had been kicked out of Rodriguez's home after he had trouble locating a vein, infuriating the player. The sources did not say why Bosch would have been tapping a vein, as HGH and testosterone do not require intravenous injections. But whatever he was doing, "Tony said A-Rod was pissed at him," a source said. "He said he was bleeding everywhere."Several sources, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Bosch spoke openly about his relationship with the Yankees All-Star, and two sources said that documents they reviewed detailed the drug regimens and schedules Rodriguez received. A spokesperson for Rodriguez on Friday said "the allegations are not true."MLB officials say they believe Bosch is the center of the South Florida doping operation and have urged the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency to open an investigation. But numerous sources contacted by "Outside the Lines" say that they have not been interviewed by federal agents or by MLB investigators, and are not aware of any law enforcement effort to seize material from the now-shuttered Biogenesis office or Bosch's home. MLB officials have turned over information they collected to the DEA. But sources in Florida said they have seen no indication that an investigation has begun. DEA officials have declined to comment on the existence of a case.Rodriguez was named in the Miami New Times on Monday as one of numerous athletes listed in Biogenesis paperwork. A source told "Outside the Lines" Bosch had an aversion to computerized records and wrote all of his records by hand. The other MLB players named were Melky Cabrera, Bartolo Colon, Nelson Cruz, Yasmani Grandal and Gio Gonzalez.Bosch termed the allegations against him "bull----" and "all wrong" when reached by "Outside the Lines." His attorney, Susy Ribero-Ayala, also put out a statement denying the allegations and told "Outside the Lines'' that Bosch wouldn't be talking "any time very soon."One source familiar with Bosch's operation said Bosch's office was visited regularly by Juan Carlos Nunez, a man identified this summer as working for Melky Cabrera's agents, Seth and Sam Levinson of ACES Sports Management. After Cabrera tested positive, MLB officials said Nunez created a fake website in an attempt to provide an alibi for Cabrera. The Levinsons previously described Nunez as having been a "consultant," and said they had no knowledge of his activities or his possible connection to PEDs.Mike Fish/ESPNTwo unidentified men last fall leave Biogenesis of America in Coral Gables, Fla., a clinic under investigation by Major League Baseball.Sources familiar with MLB's investigation said officials are still looking into how much the veteran agents knew, as three of their players, Cabrera, Cruz and Gonzalez, have been connected to the clinic.Nunez, who in recent years relocated to South Florida, has not responded to several requests for comment. One baseball agent said Nunez has frequently been seen at Marlins Park, and was known to be an important conduit between the Levinsons' ACES agency and Latin American ballplayers. Seth Levinson issued a statement Friday:"Anyone who knows us, knows that it is absolutely ridiculous to think that we would ever condone the use of performance-enhancing drugs. We have represented many hundreds of players over 25 years, and our track record makes it perfectly clear that we do things the right way. ACES long ago stopped using Juan Nunez as an independent contractor, and he plays no role whatsoever in ACES' ongoing representation of any professional baseball player."In November, the MLBPA said: "After a thorough investigation, we concluded none of the ACES principals were involved in or had knowledge of the Cabrera scheme."Rodriguez has denied ever having been treated by Bosch or having received PEDs from him. Cabrera, Colon and Grandal each were suspended 50 games after testing positive for testosterone last season. Cruz has not spoken about the allegations, but a law firm representing him, Farrell & Reisinger, issued a denial this week to The Associated Press: "We are aware of certain allegations and inferences. To the extent these allegations and inferences refer to Nelson, they are denied."Gonzalez this week denied ever using PEDs; his father, Max, said he received drugs from Bosch for his own weight loss, and said his son had never doped.One source familiar with Bosch's operation said Rodriguez's cousin, Yuri Sucart, identified as having helped Rodriguez during his admitted period of doping more than 10 years ago, appeared regularly at Biogenesis, but not on behalf of the player. The source said Sucart obtained drugs for personal use, and that Rodriguez didn't need him as a courier because of the personal attention he received from Bosch.Four years ago, "Outside the Lines" identified Bosch and his father, Dr. Pedro Bosch, as having provided a prescription for human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) to Manny Ramirez, who then received the first of his two PED suspensions. As in this latest instance involving Anthony Bosch, MLB officials pressed the DEA to open an investigation, but law enforcement sources said the agency never did.Anthony Bosch often has presented himself as a physician, despite not having a medical license. His name is listed on state corporation records tied to a laundry list of ventures that are now inoperative, and sources said he was involved in several businesses, such as Biogenesis, in which his name did not appear on paperwork.Several friends and former associates told "Outside the Lines" they were either told by Bosch or led to believe that he was a medical doctor. On state corporate filings for one venture, Bosch is listed as "Dr. Bosch." Under Florida law, only a licensed physician can consult with a patient and recommend treatment and prescribe medications. A would-be patient told "Outside the Lines" that Bosch was introduced to him as an "anti-aging doctor" during a visit to a South Florida clinic within the past year, and a reporter was present early last fall when Bosch told a man he was a doctor.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
a mix of deer antler spray, bull penis, and horse meat.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Great question. If the article is accurate, HGH and testosterone don't require an injection. So maybe he was taking good ol' fashion steroids? Heroin?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I've looked through the firsthand notes that the New Times published. Haven't seen anything that can bite Cruz or Gio.They might have used, but from what I've seen there's no actual evidence of it beyond their association with this lab. And the lab did lots of legal/not banned stuff too. In fact the only decent evidence of an order filled for Gio was for stuff not banned by MLB.They obviously could still get suspended, but IMO MLB would have to find something the New Times either didn't find or didn't publish.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Former employee. Doubt the employee wrote them up. Not only is there no real reason to do it, the article also says the basics of it are corroborated by "interviews with six customers and two former employees." However I don't think the notebook tells the tale the same way the writer thinks it does. Some of the notes are just stats, others are for legal orders like Gio's. To be honest it kind of looks to me like the guy also played fantasy baseball and scribbled thoughts in the journal. There's a 4(5) next to Cruz's name and his stats and a 9(9) next to Melky's name and stats at one point.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
I heard Matt Capps struck out a guy once.I don't think the Prado contract is necessarily bad, I just find it hysterical that they could've just signed him for nothing in 10 months. That's all.
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Guest
Couldn't the Braves have offered him a qualifying offer or whatever to cost the trading team a draft pick and cash?
Eephus
Footballguy
They could have but the qualifying offer threshold this year was higher than the $10M/yr figure he signed for.
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But they're only 1-year deals, right?I would think that the Braves would offer Prado one because it would probably be worth if it he signed and it gives leverage if he doesn't.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Did I get Card Trader to quit the internet? If so what kind of compensation do I get from you knobs? Should be fairly substantial, that guy ruins multiple forums. 
