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***Official 2013/2014 NHL Regular Season Thread*** (1 Viewer)

Aaron Rudnicki said:
yes it's automatic. punching a player repeatedly in the face while he lays prone on the ice without trying to defend himself should also be worth a longer suspension.
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I knew you knew that Aaron. i just wanted to clarify that the the Clarskson suspension wasnt an arbitrary number.

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
10 coolest hockey rinks in the world
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I have been to the Aud in Utica multiple times and I would never categorize it as one of the coolest in the world. In fact, it is one of the biggest dumps in the world. And the surrounding area is not the nicest either. Only thing that saves me is staying at the Radison that is walking distance. And the fact that I can cancel my reservation up to 6:00 that night in case my team loses

 
WOW alot of hate for Thornton going on!! Look there is no way I condone what Thornton did and I have no problem with him getting 20 or 25 games, even more. But if you compare that to what Neal did and got, it's flat out wrong imho that Neal gets only 5 games IF Thornton gets 20 or 25. Even 12 which is what is being thrown around down here as a suspension is too much compared to Neal. In a purely simplistic way, that is like saying Thornton's crime was 2.5 times worse than Neal's which I don't agree with. Neal's been suspended twice already so there is history while Thornton hasn't been suspended. Neal deliberately targets the head and attempts to injure a player already down on the ice and defenseless. If Marchand was the one going out on the stretcher unconscious, how would this discussion change? I have been listening to The Fan in Toronto, hockey central and sportsnet and all have come out with a majority that Neal's hit was more malicious than Thornton's from a pure intent perspective. The punishment runs the gamut in the court of public opinion which isn't surprising as the injury, optics, players involved... all get involved. I find it odd that you call Thornton's crime an "attack", while Neal's gets labelled a dirty, cheap hit. They were both attacks with the intent to hurt imho.

 
Cool in the pocket said:
WOW alot of hate for Thornton going on!! Look there is no way I condone what Thornton did and I have no problem with him getting 20 or 25 games, even more. But if you compare that to what Neal did and got, it's flat out wrong imho that Neal gets only 5 games IF Thornton gets 20 or 25. Even 12 which is what is being thrown around down here as a suspension is too much compared to Neal. In a purely simplistic way, that is like saying Thornton's crime was 2.5 times worse than Neal's which I don't agree with. Neal's been suspended twice already so there is history while Thornton hasn't been suspended. Neal deliberately targets the head and attempts to injure a player already down on the ice and defenseless. If Marchand was the one going out on the stretcher unconscious, how would this discussion change? I have been listening to The Fan in Toronto, hockey central and sportsnet and all have come out with a majority that Neal's hit was more malicious than Thornton's from a pure intent perspective. The punishment runs the gamut in the court of public opinion which isn't surprising as the injury, optics, players involved... all get involved. I find it odd that you call Thornton's crime an "attack", while Neal's gets labelled a dirty, cheap hit. They were both attacks with the intent to hurt imho.
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Thornton's looks way worse. He kept punching a player who was lying defenseless on the ice and may have even been unconscious at some point. I'd be fine with ending his season.

Cheap shots like Neal's should be taken out of the game as well, but there's more of a precedent for how those types of plays are handled by supplemental discipline and 5 games seems reasonable to me. It also wasn't nearly as violent or over the top as Thornton's actions were and didn't cause any major damage.

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Cool in the pocket said:
WOW alot of hate for Thornton going on!! Look there is no way I condone what Thornton did and I have no problem with him getting 20 or 25 games, even more. But if you compare that to what Neal did and got, it's flat out wrong imho that Neal gets only 5 games IF Thornton gets 20 or 25. Even 12 which is what is being thrown around down here as a suspension is too much compared to Neal. In a purely simplistic way, that is like saying Thornton's crime was 2.5 times worse than Neal's which I don't agree with. Neal's been suspended twice already so there is history while Thornton hasn't been suspended. Neal deliberately targets the head and attempts to injure a player already down on the ice and defenseless. If Marchand was the one going out on the stretcher unconscious, how would this discussion change? I have been listening to The Fan in Toronto, hockey central and sportsnet and all have come out with a majority that Neal's hit was more malicious than Thornton's from a pure intent perspective. The punishment runs the gamut in the court of public opinion which isn't surprising as the injury, optics, players involved... all get involved. I find it odd that you call Thornton's crime an "attack", while Neal's gets labelled a dirty, cheap hit. They were both attacks with the intent to hurt imho.
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Thornton's looks way worse. He kept punching a player who was lying defenseless on the ice and may have even been unconscious at some point. I'd be fine with ending his season.

Cheap shots like Neal's should be taken out of the game as well, but there's more of a precedent for how those types of plays are handled by supplemental discipline and 5 games seems reasonable to me. It also wasn't nearly as violent or over the top as Thornton's actions were and didn't cause any major damage.
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IMHO Thornton's is almost as bad as what Bertuzzi did, and would be fine if he sat for the rest of the season.

Neal's likely should have been more than 5 but the NHL wheel of justice has never been fair or equitable in application, which is why I would expect Thornton to get 10.

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Cool in the pocket said:
WOW alot of hate for Thornton going on!! Look there is no way I condone what Thornton did and I have no problem with him getting 20 or 25 games, even more. But if you compare that to what Neal did and got, it's flat out wrong imho that Neal gets only 5 games IF Thornton gets 20 or 25. Even 12 which is what is being thrown around down here as a suspension is too much compared to Neal. In a purely simplistic way, that is like saying Thornton's crime was 2.5 times worse than Neal's which I don't agree with. Neal's been suspended twice already so there is history while Thornton hasn't been suspended. Neal deliberately targets the head and attempts to injure a player already down on the ice and defenseless. If Marchand was the one going out on the stretcher unconscious, how would this discussion change? I have been listening to The Fan in Toronto, hockey central and sportsnet and all have come out with a majority that Neal's hit was more malicious than Thornton's from a pure intent perspective. The punishment runs the gamut in the court of public opinion which isn't surprising as the injury, optics, players involved... all get involved. I find it odd that you call Thornton's crime an "attack", while Neal's gets labelled a dirty, cheap hit. They were both attacks with the intent to hurt imho.
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Thornton's looks way worse. He kept punching a player who was lying defenseless on the ice and may have even been unconscious at some point. I'd be fine with ending his season.

Cheap shots like Neal's should be taken out of the game as well, but there's more of a precedent for how those types of plays are handled by supplemental discipline and 5 games seems reasonable to me. It also wasn't nearly as violent or over the top as Thornton's actions were and didn't cause any major damage.
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I agree the optics look worse for the Thornton incident and that is why he will get more. I disagree that the incidents were any less malicious. What if Marchand was the one who got knocked unconscious / stretchered off and Orpik gets up? Can we agree that both these types of actions have to get out of the game? If so, how is 5 games sending a message? This is probably another topic all together, but give Thornton the rest of the season and Neal getting like 15 or 20 games. 5 games won't deter anyone from doing a similar incident and if Thornton gets 10ish neither will that.

 
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Cool in the pocket said:
hat if Marchand was the one who got knocked unconscious / stretchered off and Orpik gets up?
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I'm sure he'd have gotten more. I don't mind taking the results of the infraction into account when deciding disciplinary action though. In fact, I think it definitely should play a role.

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Cool in the pocket said:
hat if Marchand was the one who got knocked unconscious / stretchered off and Orpik gets up?
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I'm sure he'd have gotten more. I don't mind taking the results of the infraction into account when deciding disciplinary action though. In fact, I think it definitely should play a role.
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I don't disagree to a certain extent, but that brings the element of luck into it. The same incident that yields different punishments because one guy got wrecked and the other got up makes a line that is already grey even more blurred.

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Cool in the pocket said:
hat if Marchand was the one who got knocked unconscious / stretchered off and Orpik gets up?
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I'm sure he'd have gotten more. I don't mind taking the results of the infraction into account when deciding disciplinary action though. In fact, I think it definitely should play a role.
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Especially in this case where the knee didn't knock him out because Neal didn't try to hit him full force. He saw the opportunistic chance to take a cheap shot and kneed him, but it wasn't a kill shot.

Thornton knocked Orpik out and then kept hitting him.

The severity of the injuries is tied to the intent.

 
Cool in the pocket said:
I don't disagree to a certain extent, but that brings the element of luck into it. The same incident that yields different punishments because one guy got wrecked and the other got up makes a line that is already grey even more blurred.
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all the more reason for players to stay in control. if you do something stupid and wind up knocking a guy out for 20+ games with a concussion, you sit for a long time yourself. seems fair to me.

this happens in the criminal justice system too.

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Cool in the pocket said:
I don't disagree to a certain extent, but that brings the element of luck into it. The same incident that yields different punishments because one guy got wrecked and the other got up makes a line that is already grey even more blurred.
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all the more reason for players to stay in control. if you do something stupid and wind up knocking a guy out for 20+ games with a concussion, you sit for a long time yourself. seems fair to me.

this happens in the criminal justice system too.
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I get that it happens in the criminal justice system too, but it seems just as illogical there. Two guys try to kill someone, one guy dies the other gets hit in the shoulder. First guy gets life, the chair or whatever, the second guy gets attempted murder for being a bad shot, the other guy having a better doctor... I'm not trying to pick a fight Aaron and I understand measuring intent is virtually impossible. Maybe there isn't a better way, idk. but if the main criteria we're going to judge an offense on is the resulting injury, luck will play a huge part. Neal was just as stupid as Thornton, he just got lucky Marchand wasn't hurt. The intent is not in question for me. Time to let it go for me--I just want both actions out of the game with whatever it takes. It's just a question of time before the resulting injury is really serious.

 
Regarding dirty players:

They exist, some on the teams you follow, some on other teams. They are out there, we all understand this. I think Neal is a dirty player. However, across many sports mediums, I hear or see people calling Orpik dirty. Why are they saying this? I don't recall one instance during Orpik's career that would make me label him as dirty. Is it because he is a known hard, clean hitter/checker? I just don't understand. What are you guys' honest perception of him? Am I viewing him wrong?

 
Copeman said:
Regarding dirty players:

They exist, some on the teams you follow, some on other teams. They are out there, we all understand this. I think Neal is a dirty player. However, across many sports mediums, I hear or see people calling Orpik dirty. Why are they saying this? I don't recall one instance during Orpik's career that would make me label him as dirty. Is it because he is a known hard, clean hitter/checker? I just don't understand. What are you guys' honest perception of him? Am I viewing him wrong?
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he broke Erik Cole's neck on a hit from behind.

Otherwise, I just think of him as being a big hitter. Letang is much scummier.

 
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Neal's last suspension was longer than 18 months ago, so technically speaking he's not a repeat offender, according to their CBA. However, in Shannys wheel of justice video for Neal, he said they did take into account his past transgressions, I guess that was the reasoning for the max 5 games.

 
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Cool in the pocket said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
5 game suspension for Neal
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If I understand correctly and as someone else posted, that is the most he could have gotten in the phone mode hearing. It should have been an in person imho as he has been suspended twice already and this was a blatant disregard for a defenseless player's safety. He should get 80% of what Thornton gets, but the optics are hurting Thornton and helping Neal. Marchand not hurt, known as a dirtbag player that "has this coming". Orpik taken out on stretcher unconscious, unwilling participant, already engaged, Thornton known as tough guy. The NHL is probably regretting the quick call on the phone interview as the buzz in TO is that Neal's attack was worse than Thornton's and I agree.
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Oh sweet god I'm glad I don't come here very often anymore.... :lmao:

 
Cool in the pocket said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Cool in the pocket said:
hat if Marchand was the one who got knocked unconscious / stretchered off and Orpik gets up?
Click to expand...
I'm sure he'd have gotten more. I don't mind taking the results of the infraction into account when deciding disciplinary action though. In fact, I think it definitely should play a role.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree to a certain extent, but that brings the element of luck into it. The same incident that yields different punishments because one guy got wrecked and the other got up makes a line that is already grey even more blurred.
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I'll type this real slow for you to understand.

The Neal cheapshot on Marchand happened in the play of the game, and should be handled as such. Neal displayed an entire lack of respect for a fellow player.

Thorton's actions happened after the whistle and play of the game. Thorton displayed an entire lack of respect of the rules of the game and a total respect for a fellow player.

 
Martin Jones is legit. Only reason they are kicking the Habs teeth in is the kid stood on his head in the first. 3 solid outings to start his career now.

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Bill Brasky said:
What a cluster#### in Buffalo for an obvious goal. They even review it and call no goal. How does that even happen?
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Ref should lose his job.
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Only thing possible is intent to blow and that couldn't have been the call since it went to review. Toronto replay guy should lost his job too, no where close to covered and in well before the whistle. Awful call, horribly handled by the refs.
 
Bill Brasky said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Bill Brasky said:
What a cluster#### in Buffalo for an obvious goal. They even review it and call no goal. How does that even happen?
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Ref should lose his job.
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Only thing possible is intent to blow and that couldn't have been the call since it went to review. Toronto replay guy should lost his job too, no where close to covered and in well before the whistle. Awful call, horribly handled by the refs.
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Ruled Ottawa had possession.
 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Bill Brasky said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Bill Brasky said:
What a cluster#### in Buffalo for an obvious goal. They even review it and call no goal. How does that even happen?
Click to expand...
Ref should lose his job.
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Only thing possible is intent to blow and that couldn't have been the call since it went to review. Toronto replay guy should lost his job too, no where close to covered and in well before the whistle. Awful call, horribly handled by the refs.
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Ruled Ottawa had possession.
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Phantom
 
Well I tell you what, even when the Sabres play well they certainly don't make it easy on themselves...including the shootout. Jesus Christ.

Lehner is awful on any one on one deke by the way, absolutely guessing every time.

 
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