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***Official 2013 Chicago Bears Thread*** (1 Viewer)

The Tick said:
I actually didn't think Angelo was too bad with that was he? I thought most of our players played their contracts through without crippling the team. The only glaring exception to that is Peppers right now. Am I missing some big ones?

.
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Doesn't fit the "Emery is an intelligent genius/Angelo an idiot" meme some out there want to run with. Drives me nuts.

 
The Tick said:
I actually didn't think Angelo was too bad with that was he? I thought most of our players played their contracts through without crippling the team. The only glaring exception to that is Peppers right now. Am I missing some big ones?

As far as Cutler, I would not be willing to pay him 20/year, but I don't think he is going to demand that much. He wants Marshall resigned, he wants to stay in a powerful offense and win, so I think he comes back at decently less than that 15-17/year range. If he comes down to that, I think we sign him and hope with the more stable offense he continues to improve like he started to this year. If he truly thinks he should be making what those guys are, then I'm ready to move on.

I would not use the franchise tag, either we've seen enough to want him or we haven't, just make the decision and try to work a contract.

I also don't see the sign and trade happening, maybe franchise and trade, but not a whole new contract.
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Excellent post. I have to think the two injuries help Cutler to realize he should stay with Trestman and settle for that $15million/6-year type of contract. Just have to hope a couple great picks for the defense can turn that ship around ASAP.

 
RBM said:
Yeah I think it's going to be tough to fix this D. Said it last week, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a switch to a 3-4 next year. The line will need a big body for NT and then a pass rushing OLB to play opposite Shea. Paea, Melton and Wooten could all play DE. Briggs, Bostic, Greene and Anderson are enough for the ILB spots.

Top 3 needs:

Pass rusher

Big body DT/NT

The usual, annual need for safeties.
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Sticking to this. Thinking goodbye to Melton. Maybe Peppers restructures? I just think it's easier to find these freak athletic stand up pass rushers than traditional 4-3 DEs in this day and age.

Wooten, Peppers, Paea as ends

Need two big bodies for NT

Shea, the new kid that hasn't played and a high pick for OLB

Briggs and the 3 stooges for ILB

Secondary is the usual suspects. We need help at S no matter what scheme we run.

We're a wreck no matter how ya slice it.

 
The Tick said:
I actually didn't think Angelo was too bad with that was he? I thought most of our players played their contracts through without crippling the team. The only glaring exception to that is Peppers right now. Am I missing some big ones?

As far as Cutler, I would not be willing to pay him 20/year, but I don't think he is going to demand that much. He wants Marshall resigned, he wants to stay in a powerful offense and win, so I think he comes back at decently less than that 15-17/year range. If he comes down to that, I think we sign him and hope with the more stable offense he continues to improve like he started to this year. If he truly thinks he should be making what those guys are, then I'm ready to move on.

I would not use the franchise tag, either we've seen enough to want him or we haven't, just make the decision and try to work a contract.

I also don't see the sign and trade happening, maybe franchise and trade, but not a whole new contract.
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I think Cutler looks around the league and sees the big numbers that other QBs are getting. Brady signed a more reasonable contract to give the team some cap room to sign players. Then the Patriots proceeded to cut Welker and Brady started the season with no veteran receivers. I just don't see Cutler giving the Bears some kind of hometown discount. I think he can get $20 million a year from the Vikings or the Raiders or the Browns. Someone would be willing to pay that. So I don't think you will get him for that $15 to $17 million range that is being mentioned.

I just think that they would be best to franchise him just to see if Cutler could stay healthy. I don't think he can. With the tag you aren't obligated beyond next year. If you sign him to a long term contract you are stuck with all that guaranteed money if he proceeds to do what he has been doing, which is turn the ball over and miss games. Or if Cutler really steps up and produces, in addition to staying healthy, then a long term contract isn't going to cost you all that much more than it would this year. If the franchise tag costs $16.2 million it isn't any more than you are going to have to pay him in salary for a long term deal.

 
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Phenix said:
RBM said:
The defense has cost us our season. Emery and Trestman have their work cut out for them trying to get this D to playoff quality for next year.
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No Cutler sitting out with bad ankles while players like Manning can play on his is what cost you your season.

Before you all get on me, I fully believe since these people are paid handsomely and the game they play has injury risks at all times, you must play with injuries and if he can walk.... he should play. I remember when you couldnt pull hurt dudes off the field, now we let them sit with playoff hopes on the line. Wussification of football in full swing.
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Should Rodgers be out there?
 
They will sign Cutler to a long-term deal. The only reason they use the tag is to hold onto him while working on a deal. It's a bargaining chip. People seem to be underestimating Cutler's value on here. It's true McCown has been playing well, but the team is averaging 7 points fewer a game since Cutler's been out. He may not get 20mil per but it won't be far from it, and his value to this team is worth every penny.

 
flapgreen said:
They will sign Cutler to a long-term deal. The only reason they use the tag is to hold onto him while working on a deal. It's a bargaining chip. People seem to be underestimating Cutler's value on here. It's true McCown has been playing well, but the team is averaging 7 points fewer a game since Cutler's been out. He may not get 20mil per but it won't be far from it, and his value to this team is worth every penny.
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Aren't they also averaging fewer interceptions since Cutlers been gone?

 
flapgreen said:
They will sign Cutler to a long-term deal. The only reason they use the tag is to hold onto him while working on a deal. It's a bargaining chip. People seem to be underestimating Cutler's value on here. It's true McCown has been playing well, but the team is averaging 7 points fewer a game since Cutler's been out. He may not get 20mil per but it won't be far from it, and his value to this team is worth every penny.
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I disagree completely. Cutler is not worth $20 million a year in a long term deal. In Melton's case the tag wasn't a bargaining ploy. And it worked out to the Bears benefit because they aren't obligated beyond this year to another player who can't stay healthy.

Cutler is a very good QB when he is on the field, but he has missed too many games. He can't be relied on. If the Bears tag him, and he stays healthy next season, and produces, then you think about a long term deal. In my mind, not until then. There is just too much risk tied to Cutler to sign him to a long term deal at this point.

 
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I am with Flap on this one. I think they sign him to a long term deal and they should. I think he gives a small discount in order to keep Marshall too. This system gives him the opportunity to really excel and he won't be poor either way. Why go to another rebuilding team with less weapons and get beat to #### again? Been there, done that.

The pieces are in place on offense. We all know that's not the issue. Keep McCown as backup. Pick up some more D pieces in FA and the draft to make the D average. That's all you really need right now. Then continue to build and hope players like Bostic, Greene,Shea, and Frey develop.

Not so sure about Mel Tucker at this point.

 
twistd said:
flapgreen said:
They will sign Cutler to a long-term deal. The only reason they use the tag is to hold onto him while working on a deal. It's a bargaining chip. People seem to be underestimating Cutler's value on here. It's true McCown has been playing well, but the team is averaging 7 points fewer a game since Cutler's been out. He may not get 20mil per but it won't be far from it, and his value to this team is worth every penny.
Click to expand...
I disagree completely. Cutler is not worth $20 million a year in a long term deal. In Melton's case the tag wasn't a bargaining ploy. And it worked out to the Bears benefit because they aren't obligated beyond this year to another player who can't stay healthy.

Cutler is a very good QB when he is on the field, but he has missed too many games. He can't be relied on. If the Bears tag him, and he stays healthy next season, and produces, then you think about a long term deal. In my mind, not until then. There is just too much risk tied to Cutler to sign him to a long term deal at this point.
Click to expand...
In his first four years as a starter, Cutler missed one game due to injury. He missed 6 games in 2011 and now about to miss his 6th this season. Do you actually believe his body is breaking down now and he won't stay healthy going forward? I don't want to debate whether some guys are injury prone, but it's just bad luck. There's a risk for everyone out on the field they might get injured.

 
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RBM said:
RBM said:
Yeah I think it's going to be tough to fix this D. Said it last week, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a switch to a 3-4 next year. The line will need a big body for NT and then a pass rushing OLB to play opposite Shea. Paea, Melton and Wooten could all play DE. Briggs, Bostic, Greene and Anderson are enough for the ILB spots.

Top 3 needs:

Pass rusher

Big body DT/NT

The usual, annual need for safeties.
Click to expand...
Sticking to this. Thinking goodbye to Melton. Maybe Peppers restructures? I just think it's easier to find these freak athletic stand up pass rushers than traditional 4-3 DEs in this day and age.

Wooten, Peppers, Paea as ends

Need two big bodies for NT

Shea, the new kid that hasn't played and a high pick for OLB

Briggs and the 3 stooges for ILB

Secondary is the usual suspects. We need help at S no matter what scheme we run.

We're a wreck no matter how ya slice it.
Click to expand...
We're only a wreck if you think we have to address everything in 1 year. I think we concentrate on the D up the middle. DT and safety. Get multiple candidates to increase likelihood of getting an NFL caliber player.

This should shore up the defense well enough for next year. In 2 years we can address the areas that will get us to the next level and contend for a title.

 
KCitons said:
flapgreen said:
They will sign Cutler to a long-term deal. The only reason they use the tag is to hold onto him while working on a deal. It's a bargaining chip. People seem to be underestimating Cutler's value on here. It's true McCown has been playing well, but the team is averaging 7 points fewer a game since Cutler's been out. He may not get 20mil per but it won't be far from it, and his value to this team is worth every penny.
Click to expand...
Aren't they also averaging fewer interceptions since Cutlers been gone?
Click to expand...
Are you saying you'd rather have fewer interceptions and 7 less points per game?
 
3nOut said:
KCitons said:
flapgreen said:
They will sign Cutler to a long-term deal. The only reason they use the tag is to hold onto him while working on a deal. It's a bargaining chip. People seem to be underestimating Cutler's value on here. It's true McCown has been playing well, but the team is averaging 7 points fewer a game since Cutler's been out. He may not get 20mil per but it won't be far from it, and his value to this team is worth every penny.
Click to expand...
Aren't they also averaging fewer interceptions since Cutlers been gone?
Click to expand...
Are you saying you'd rather have fewer interceptions and 7 less points per game?
Click to expand...
That's a relative question, and a trap.

Yes, I would rather have 7 less points if the team is going to average over 30 pts per game. If a team is only averaging 14 pts a game, then no I would rather take the additional 7 pts.

In the case of the Bears and Cutler, those interceptions seemed to come at the worst possible time (ie red zone, late in game)

You also specify the number of points lost, but the number of interceptions is not stated. Since our defense sucks right now, one interception would not be worth 7 pts. But, two or three would could be translated to 10-17 pts for the opposing team.

 
3nOut said:
KCitons said:
flapgreen said:
They will sign Cutler to a long-term deal. The only reason they use the tag is to hold onto him while working on a deal. It's a bargaining chip. People seem to be underestimating Cutler's value on here. It's true McCown has been playing well, but the team is averaging 7 points fewer a game since Cutler's been out. He may not get 20mil per but it won't be far from it, and his value to this team is worth every penny.
Click to expand...
Aren't they also averaging fewer interceptions since Cutlers been gone?
Click to expand...
Are you saying you'd rather have fewer interceptions and 7 less points per game?
Click to expand...
Without question. Nothing worse than turnovers. ESPECIALLY with an inept defense.
 
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Nicely done Bears. We will see you in a couple of weeks. You bring the sausage and I'll bring the beer.

 
The Tick said:
I actually didn't think Angelo was too bad with that was he? I thought most of our players played their contracts through without crippling the team. The only glaring exception to that is Peppers right now. Am I missing some big ones?
Click to expand...
You are correct, I shouldn't have implied Angelo did it all the time as Peppers' contract is the main one I was referring to. I think in 2010 when he signed it most people suspected Peppers wouldn't see all 6 years or 91.5m. Angelo then compounded that error by restructuring less than a year later virtually guaranteeing Peppers would have to be cut.

 
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Looks like they flexed the Bears/Eagles game on the 22nd to the Sunday Night game slot. That game could decide both the NFC North and East.

 
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Unless quarterback is willing to take a cap-friendly deal, expect him to hit free agency.

Jason Cole

DECEMBER 11, 2013, 01:03 PM EST

Unless quarterback Jay Cutler is willing to take a club-friendly deal on his next contract, the Chicago Bears are likely to let Cutler become a free agent in the offseason, a source said Wednesday. The Bears would do that even at the risk of losing him.

“(The Bears) believe in (coach Marc) Trestman after what they’ve seen from (backup quarterback Josh) McCown,” the source said. “Between his system and the two big receivers (Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffery), you have a system where a quarterback can flourish. I don’t know if McCown is going to be the starter (next season), but I think the team would be fine letting Cutler test the market and then go draft someone if he left.”

The goal for the Bears is to not overpay for Cutler, who could be looking for a deal in the range of $20 million a year, particularly if the Bears put the franchise tag on him and then try to negotiate a long-term deal.

Chicago Genera Manager Phil Emery said last week that he was uncomfortable with the idea of using the franchise tag on a quarterback.

“The franchise tag for the quarterback position has unique challenges because the average comes out to be such a big portion of your cap and your total money available to spend on other players to acquire to help your team,” Emery said.

“With the franchise tag being so high for the quarterback position, to use it and not sign the individual to a long-term deal hurts the team because you lose the ability to prorate the amount of guaranteed salary over the length of the contract. Proration lowers the salary cap number in relation to that player's contract. Obviously the lower the number in relation to the salary cap, the more players you can sign to help your team reach its goals.”

Follow me on Twitter @JasonPhilColehttp://www.twitter.com/jasonphilcole

 
"The source" yea ok. Emery is as tight lipped as they come, I'm SURE he's giving out secrets.

He can't even spell General correctly

Jay's in Chicago next year

 
I don't disagree with that article at all. Now the big question is what is the definition of a club friendly deal? I would almost put a bet that Cutler will not see a 20mil/year deal out of the Bears. Even though Romo got one not deserving it, Jay has done nothing in his career to prove he deserves that type of money.

QB contracts have been in the 20mil/year range lately, and that is likely what he will benchmark against. If he doesn't come down from there significantly, I think the bears will let him walk. I would guess 18mil per year is the max the bears will go, and I still think they are going to try to get him in the 15-17/year range.

 
The Tick said:
I don't disagree with that article at all. Now the big question is what is the definition of a club friendly deal? I would almost put a bet that Cutler will not see a 20mil/year deal out of the Bears. Even though Romo got one not deserving it, Jay has done nothing in his career to prove he deserves that type of money.

QB contracts have been in the 20mil/year range lately, and that is likely what he will benchmark against. If he doesn't come down from there significantly, I think the bears will let him walk. I would guess 18mil per year is the max the bears will go, and I still think they are going to try to get him in the 15-17/year range.
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Isn't the QB franchise tag 16 million range?

 
KCitons said:
The Tick said:
I don't disagree with that article at all. Now the big question is what is the definition of a club friendly deal? I would almost put a bet that Cutler will not see a 20mil/year deal out of the Bears. Even though Romo got one not deserving it, Jay has done nothing in his career to prove he deserves that type of money.

QB contracts have been in the 20mil/year range lately, and that is likely what he will benchmark against. If he doesn't come down from there significantly, I think the bears will let him walk. I would guess 18mil per year is the max the bears will go, and I still think they are going to try to get him in the 15-17/year range.
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Isn't the QB franchise tag 16 million range?
Click to expand...
Thought it was higher than that, but could be wrong.

 
ESPN: Quarterback A has played 7 games this year, with a qb rating of 109.8

B-Marsh: wooooooh!

ESPN: With a QBR of 85.7

B-Marsh: ooooooooooooh!

ESPN: With a win % at 4-3

B-Marsh: wow

ESPN: You’re scoring 2.5 points per drive, which is higher [than qb B]. 13 td’s, 1 rushing, only ONE interception

B-Marsh: PREACH!

ESPN: his completion rate is 66.8

B-Marsh: Shut-up

ESPN: Yards per attempt is 8.2

B-Marsh: Mmm mmm mmm

ESPN: Only fumbled twice. Shouldn’t that guy start?

B-Marsh: Nope!

ESPN: Why?

B-Marsh: Cause you got Jay Cutler

 
The Tick said:
flapgreen said:
Jay and Marshall have been close friends for years. He will always have his back.
Click to expand...
And you don't publically start a quarterback controversy on your team...
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There's not one, except for the one media and fans are creating. It's awesome to have your backup come in and light it up. The backup can perform well without creating a qb controversy.
 
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flapgreen said:
Briggs injury initially 4-6 weeks, now going on 7 and no word. Seems iffy he returns at all now.
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Briggs was practicing on a limited basis today. They are speculating that he might return next week. I personally think he is the most important player on their defense and it should improve with him calling the plays and setting the alignments. The rookies and Anderson seem lost and are constantly out of position.

 
The Tick said:
KCitons said:
The Tick said:
I don't disagree with that article at all. Now the big question is what is the definition of a club friendly deal? I would almost put a bet that Cutler will not see a 20mil/year deal out of the Bears. Even though Romo got one not deserving it, Jay has done nothing in his career to prove he deserves that type of money.

QB contracts have been in the 20mil/year range lately, and that is likely what he will benchmark against. If he doesn't come down from there significantly, I think the bears will let him walk. I would guess 18mil per year is the max the bears will go, and I still think they are going to try to get him in the 15-17/year range.
Click to expand...
Isn't the QB franchise tag 16 million range?
Click to expand...
Thought it was higher than that, but could be wrong.
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I read that the tag was $16.2 million. I don't understand how it can be that low but I've read it is. I thought it was supposed to be the average of the top five and Flacco, Romo, Brees and Flacco are all making $20 million or close to that.

I'm just baffled by how Emery thinks that if they sign Cutler to a long term deal that his cap number will be much lower than $16 million. They could only do that if they backloaded the contract. If the Bears could manage to sign Cutler to a contract averaging $16 million a year that would about the best they could do.

The way Flacco's contract works he is paid $30 million in year one but his cap number is only $6.8 million. His cap number is $14.8 million in 2014, year two. His number is $14.55 million in 2015. In 2016 his number jumps to $28.5 million. In 2017 his number is $31.5 million. And then in 2018 it is $24.75 million. So it is like Flacco really signed a three year deal because they have to renegotiate the deal after 2015 because they can't take the $28.5 million cap hit. The article I read says that with the bonuses and how it is structured the deal turns out to be a three year $62 million. What I don't understand is the total of his cap numbers for the first three years is $36.15 million. If it is a $62 million deal, when does the other $25.85 million get charged to the cap? I just don't understand what these teams are doing structuring contracts this way.

I guess they could sign Cutler to some deal like this. I just think that at some point the money has to get charged to the cap.

 
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