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***OFFICIAL*** 2013 MINNESOTA VIKINGS SEASON THREAD (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Beo
- Start date
jason12vb
Footballguy
I like many struggle right now with the thoughts of wanting them to win each week vs knowing it's better for them to lose.
The perfect result yesterday in my opinion...the packers did not win, but we didn't win either. Agree with Beo that the added bonus is that it just simplifies things, not only for the draft, but also for playoffs.
The perfect result yesterday in my opinion...the packers did not win, but we didn't win either. Agree with Beo that the added bonus is that it just simplifies things, not only for the draft, but also for playoffs.
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Beo
Footballguy
Chris Cook makes me sick. I just wish that the nickname "Toast" wasnt already taken by Elvis Patterson because I would like to nickname him Chris "Toast" Cook! Please let this guy be gone next year.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I think we also saw how valuable Rhett Ellison is to the offense as well. The guy is a great blocker and can make plays as well.
Beo
Footballguy
I so agree. He is Kleinsasser 2.0 and needs to be utilized more. I think we have alot of good pieces that a competent head coach, off coordinator, and def coordinator could use to make a strong team. Even more than a QB we need a whole new staff. Please Santa deliver us Kevin Sumlin, David Shaw, or Adam Gase as head coach next year. We need an offensive mind as head coach in my opinion.
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BigJim®
Footballguy
Rhodes looked great but this secondary has a surprising inability to execute basics for the position. Rarely, if ever, do DBs have any idea where the ball is. It's just bizarre how you simply never see a Viking DB turn their head at all. Also, sideline use is bad. There was an example in OT yesterday where Cook was defending Boykin on a deep sideline route:
(12:18) [(No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Flynn pass deep left to J.Boykin pushed ob at MIN 7 for 34 yards (C.Cook).
In addition to not turning around to look for the ball, Cook tried to jostle for possession and, in doing so, allowed Boykin to get both feet in. A simple shove and ball possession would have been moot. I see other NFL DBs using the sideline to their advantage. Just bad awareness and fundamentals all around for Cook.
Beo
Footballguy
I am just going to throw some dung at the wall here and see if it sticks....lol. If we cant get a hold of Bridgewater we go Clowney or Barr and then try and deal for.....gulp.....Sam Bradford. I think with the way Clemons has played St.Louis would be eager to unload Bradford at a reasonable price and then draft a QB of the future with one of their 2 1st round picks with their first pick in the 1st round possibly being top 5 with the Redskins free falling. Bradford has under achieved so far in his career but only just turned 26 and I think he would be good with Peterson drawing most of the attention and getting to throw to Jennings, Patterson, Simpson, and Rudolph. This move let's us draft one of the 2 best defensive players in the draft in our attempt to rebuild our D. I personally like Manziel but dont think he will go top 5 and wont be there for us in the 2nd. Anyone else feeling nervous about any other QB other than Bridgewater?
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Philip Rivers.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Be interesting to see if they try and pick him up again...
mr roboto
Footballguy
Who would they release?
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Beo
Footballguy
Hey any of you guys hearing what is up with Erin Henderson? First given time off for an unspecified personal problem and now arrested for DUI. Are the wheels coming off or maybe something like a death in the family that he is just grieving and just got caught after a couple of drinks? Any of you guys in Minnesota hearing anything on local sports radio or anything?
Donnybrook
Footballguy
What rookie QB will the Vikings reach for this year? Blew there chance of getting a top pick today. Derek Carr, Johhny Football?
and start considering the Packers and the Bears don't want the Vikings anywhere near Bridgewater.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Mariota is staying : http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/03/marcus-mariota-staying-at-oregon-for-2014-season/
I don't want Carr and not a fan of Johnny Football. Speilman track record outside the top rounds is not great. I got to pray that there a sleeper QB that can help this team and Speilman has enough patience and guts to get him. I will hurl if he reaches for another Ponder type QB. What did he say when he drafted Ponder something like "we don't plan to have to draft this high again". Epic fail.
Speilman needs to fire Frazier in the off-season and get a competent replacement. If he doesn't pass this first test, I don't have much hope that he is smart enough to pass the second.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I have a feeling that they will look at the free agents and go with experience, especially given Peterson approaching the 30 year mark and go defense in the first round.
sports_fan
Footballguy
With the way things have been going, I expect we'll end up with the #4 or #5 pick and draft a kicker to back up Walsh.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Not a very inspiring list...
http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=QB&Year=2014
Jay Cutler Bears $14,668,750
Michael Vick Eagles $7,500,000
Chad Henne Jaguars $3,375,000
Josh Freeman Vikings $2,833,334
Shaun Hill Lions $2,750,000
Charlie Whitehurst Chargers $1,525,000
David Garrard Jets $1,000,000
Rex Grossman Redskins $960,000
Dan Orlovsky Buccaneers $905,000
Kellen Clemens Rams $870,000
Josh McCown Bears $865,000
Luke McCown Saints $840,000
Derek Anderson Panthers $840,000
Tarvaris Jackson Seahawks $840,000
Seneca Wallace Packers $840,000
Jimmy Clausen Panthers $807,500
Trent Edwards Bears $715,000
Matt Flynn Packers $715,000
Brady Quinn Rams $715,000
Jordan Palmer Bears $715,000
Colt McCoy 49ers $702,500
Curtis Painter Giants $630,000
John Skelton Titans $630,000
Rusty Smith Titans $630,000
Joe Webb Vikings $508,129
http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=QB&Year=2014
Jay Cutler Bears $14,668,750
Michael Vick Eagles $7,500,000
Chad Henne Jaguars $3,375,000
Josh Freeman Vikings $2,833,334
Shaun Hill Lions $2,750,000
Charlie Whitehurst Chargers $1,525,000
David Garrard Jets $1,000,000
Rex Grossman Redskins $960,000
Dan Orlovsky Buccaneers $905,000
Kellen Clemens Rams $870,000
Josh McCown Bears $865,000
Luke McCown Saints $840,000
Derek Anderson Panthers $840,000
Tarvaris Jackson Seahawks $840,000
Seneca Wallace Packers $840,000
Jimmy Clausen Panthers $807,500
Trent Edwards Bears $715,000
Matt Flynn Packers $715,000
Brady Quinn Rams $715,000
Jordan Palmer Bears $715,000
Colt McCoy 49ers $702,500
Curtis Painter Giants $630,000
John Skelton Titans $630,000
Rusty Smith Titans $630,000
Joe Webb Vikings $508,129
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
Sounds like the next Romo.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
What's wrong with Carr?
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I (for some reason) was thinking that Philip Rivers was a FA.mr roboto said:
I think it will be very interesting to see what the draft brings this year. I really like what Carr offers and think they could go that route.
jason12vb
Footballguy
Unless there is a great QB option in the first I'd actually like to see them replace Cook or get Clowney and then draft 2 QBs in the 3rd to 5th round range with arms to compete for the job. Let Cassell stay to mentor and start week 1 if they both bomb, but the last thing I want to see is another reach like Ponder that Spielman or the HC feel the need to tip toe around and stick with for fear of hurting their ego.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
The likelihood of a QB hitting drops dramatically the further you get in the draft.
jason12vb
Footballguy
I understand that and if there's a franchise type QB available to us then please do it...I just don't want to see another reach and we end up with the next 3 seasons being like the last 3 because someone is too stubborn to admit they were wrong and the guy they picked isn't The Guy.
Beo
Footballguy
I just have visions of David Carr 2.0 in my head. Look at a scouting report of both side by side and they are basically identical. Strong arm, smart, accurate, athletic, Senior leadership, pro-style offense ready and so on. Also take into account they play in a conference that plays no Defense. Alot of people say Houston wrecked David Carr by throwing him in behind a terrible line too early but that is exactly what we would do to Derek Carr. Manziel to me is just "must see tv" and would bring a little attitude and fire to Minnesota that I think this team needs badly. Game planning against Peterson, Patterson, and Manziel I think would be a nightmare for opposing coaches. The floor for Manziel is Russell Wilson and the ceiling is Fran Tarkenton. I truly believe this the more I watch him play.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Beo
Footballguy
Ryan Leaf was a lazy mental midget. Manziel is the opposite. He is a smart kid who works hard. People put up red flags on Manziel for what? Partying while in college? Taking some money for signing autographs (which I totally think they should be able to do)? How many $1,000 hand shakes do you think a "high character" guy like AJ McCarron has gotten at Alabama from alumni big wigs? It happens all the time just Manziel was under such a spotlight and was scrutinized heavily. Manziel comes from money also so wont be taking his bonus money to Vegas like Leaf did. Russell Wilson transferred schools because he got beat out by Mike Glennon and Johnny Manziel has been the most electrifying player in college football for 2 years. I think putting him as Manziels floor was being polite because I think Manziel is head and shoulders more talented than Wilson.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Beo, you may be right. But Russel Wilson is currently outplaying both rg3 and luck. So picking him as the floor seems a bit ridiculous to me. I would say Kaep is more appropriate.
As far as his mentality, I do fear a punk attitude. Maybe it's a media creation or overblown, but he and his camp didn't seem to get it earlier this offseason. Arrogance won't fly real well as a rookie leading guys like Jennings, ADP etc.
As far as his mentality, I do fear a punk attitude. Maybe it's a media creation or overblown, but he and his camp didn't seem to get it earlier this offseason. Arrogance won't fly real well as a rookie leading guys like Jennings, ADP etc.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Is Derek Carr the brother of David Carr? I can't claim to have seen him play, and maybe its not fair to pigeon hole him, but I have to ask: Is there a reason to think his 4107/37 TD season at Fresno is more promising than the 4800/42 TDs David tossed at Fresno in 2002, leading to his #1 pick? I'd sure hate if the Vikes were to waste another half decade on the next David Carr.
ETA: Shoot, BEO beat me to it.
ETA: Shoot, BEO beat me to it.
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jason12vb
Footballguy
Gotta agree with Mr Roboto...to suggest that anyone's floor is perhaps a top 5 player at his position is just not realistic, even can't miss prospects flop frequently and I don't see many people calling Manziel a can't miss. Until a guy gets to the NFL it's impossible to know how he'll fair as a pro...how he'll handle the money, the fame, the expectations, being a leader, and perhaps most importantly, how will they handle being on a losing team for the first time in their life.
There is a lot more to being a great QB than just having talent. Russell Wilson is who he is because of intangibles...attitude, leadership, and seems to have a humbleness about him that just seems to instill confidence in people around him. I'm a MN fan all day long, but my wife is a Seattle fan so I watch all their games...Wilson has something special to him in my opinion.
Beo
Footballguy
I like Russell Wilson alot and am in no way trying to say he isnt a good player. You have to admit though that he dropped into a perfect scenario with the best team in football and he wouldnt look the same in Washington. He is outplaying Luck and RG3 yes but put Luck in Seattle and he would be downright scary. The same things that make Russell Wilson a good QB are the same things Manziel has but Manziel is better. Manziel has the same off the chart intangibles that Wilson has but is faster, better arm, more accurate, and a more elusive runner. The one thing that I think Russell Wilson does better is that he takes care of the ball better and doesnt always try and make the big play like Manziel does. For the Seahawks, with big personalities already on it like Sherman and others, Wilson is the perfect calming influence. For a kind of bland team like the Vikings I just think we could use a fiery attitude type of guy that Manziel is. In all that has been said about Manziel nobody ever questions his commitment to his team, his work ethic, or his competitiveness ever. That is who I want to resurrect the Vikings. We would still need alot of help to be a good team and definitely a new coaching staff, but with Manziel, Peterson, Patterson, Jennings, Simpson, and Rudolph on offense at least it would be an exciting product to watch.
Beo
Footballguy
Yeah it just kills me to see Ponder and Frazier staring at each other on the sidelines with that WTF look on their faces every timeout. You can have one calm and cool and the other fiery like Carrol/Wilson, Belichek/Brady, or old school Jimmy Johnson/Aikman but to have both just standing there staring at each other just makes me see red.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I diagree. I think Wilson has the stronger more accurate arm. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000224460/article/ask-5-does-johnny-manziels-game-translate-to-nfl-success
Bobby Guano
Footballguy
The Seahawks were average at best before Wilson was their starter. A very big part of the reason the Seahawks are the best team in football right now is Russell Wilson.
I really don't watch college ball so I have no idea, but I would love it if the Vikings found a Russell Wilson of their own.
snogger
Footballguy
Does Manziel have some growing up to do? 
but didn't we all at 21???
Hell, I can't imagine the scrutiny people would have about the way I lived my life at 21
But he has the skills, and would bring a sense of
to watching the games compared to the 
we've had to suffer through the last 3 years..
Saying that....
If Fraizer and Musgrave stick around DO NOT DRAFT HIM!!!
In Fact I would not be surprised, if they did stay, Manziel and his family pull a "Manning" and make statement about not wanting to play here.
They'd try and make him a pocket passer and his career would be over before it started.
but didn't we all at 21???Hell, I can't imagine the scrutiny people would have about the way I lived my life at 21
But he has the skills, and would bring a sense of
to watching the games compared to the we've had to suffer through the last 3 years..Saying that....
If Fraizer and Musgrave stick around DO NOT DRAFT HIM!!!
In Fact I would not be surprised, if they did stay, Manziel and his family pull a "Manning" and make statement about not wanting to play here.
They'd try and make him a pocket passer and his career would be over before it started.
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sports_fan
Footballguy
I want whoever is the best under pressure. Ponder had everything I thought I wanted in a QB. Quick release, intelligent, confident, athletic, seemingly accurate. But it all goes to hell when he has a defender coming down on him. He has no ability to deliver a good ball under pressure and it ruins everything.
Poise under pressure isn't everything but it is a critical factor.
Poise under pressure isn't everything but it is a critical factor.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
What if...
Cassel lights it up in these final few games...do they draft QB in 1st or wait on one??
Cassel lights it up in these final few games...do they draft QB in 1st or wait on one??
jason12vb
Footballguy
I'm not a college guy and am not trying to build a case against Manziel, just saying you can't put a floor comparable to one of the best players at his position on a guy that hasn't played an NFL snap . If his floor were indeed Wilson then teams would be mortgaging the farm to acquire the #1 pick next year....I don't get the impression that is happening now and I don't see even an RGIII type offer happening for someone to move up to get him.
Would you honestly put a paycheck on Manziel being as good a pro as Wilson? If that's his floor then that's what you're telling me.
I my opinion, the Hawks are the best overall team in football because of Wilson...he didn't just fall into a powerhouse, he's what makes their offense work. Luck in Seattle would likely mean they'd have to run a completely different system and with their receiving options I don't think they would be as strong as they are today. Wilson in Washington makes them just as good as they were last year with a healthy QB...a playoff team that can put points on the board fast. His ability to extend plays and be able to throw the ball on the run instead of just trying to use his legs (Kap) are on a level I've never seen before. Like John Gruden says (or paraphrases)...there are a lot of good young running quarterbacks, but you don't see any good old running quarterbacks, they just don't last. (Cam might change that)
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FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
What are people's thoughts on Hundley from UCLA? Haven't watched him much but seems to have the talent...
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