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***Official 2013 NLDS Cardinals v Pirates thread*** (1 Viewer)

Am not sure anyone expected Wacha-Morton would be a pitchers' duel, but it was a riveting game. On TV, Holliday's homer looked at first to be a regular fly ball to left center. Must be a strong dude. Good camera shots of Wainwright and others watching Wacha and apparently discussing how he was working the Buc hitters.

Cole's been announced as starter for Game 5.

 
monessen said:
Am not sure anyone expected Wacha-Morton would be a pitchers' duel, but it was a riveting game. On TV, Holliday's homer looked at first to be a regular fly ball to left center. Must be a strong dude. Good camera shots of Wainwright and others watching Wacha and apparently discussing how he was working the Buc hitters.

Cole's been announced as starter for Game 5.
Click to expand...
I was listening to the MLB network after the game and tons of Cards fans calling in essentially saying that a game 5 win was a foregone conclusion. The discussion was more around which spot in the rotation Wacha should take for the next series. The MLB analysts also seem to favor the Cards. The one thing I know is that this 2013 Buccos team has been resilient as hell. With Cole being announced the starter, I truly believe the game will be decided on 1 mistake. Keep the dream alive Buccos!

 
fred_1_15301 said:
monessen said:
Am not sure anyone expected Wacha-Morton would be a pitchers' duel, but it was a riveting game. On TV, Holliday's homer looked at first to be a regular fly ball to left center. Must be a strong dude. Good camera shots of Wainwright and others watching Wacha and apparently discussing how he was working the Buc hitters.

Cole's been announced as starter for Game 5.
Click to expand...
I was listening to the MLB network after the game and tons of Cards fans calling in essentially saying that a game 5 win was a foregone conclusion. The discussion was more around which spot in the rotation Wacha should take for the next series. The MLB analysts also seem to favor the Cards. The one thing I know is that this 2013 Buccos team has been resilient as hell. With Cole being announced the starter, I truly believe the game will be decided on 1 mistake. Keep the dream alive Buccos!
Click to expand...
No joke -- there was literally a tear running down my eye when I made this post. :lol:

 
No way is Game 5 a foregone conclusion. Granted, as a Cardinals fan, I would rather have both home field and Wainwright, but anything can happen in a winner-takes-all game.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
My brother was there and said the crowd was a mix of disappointment and disbelief when McCutchen popped out. But i agree with you, Fred. The 2013 Pirates are a "tough out."

 
Ghost Rider said:
No way is Game 5 a foregone conclusion. Granted, as a Cardinals fan, I would rather have both home field and Wainwright, but anything can happen in a winner-takes-all game.
Click to expand...
I join the Cards fans who know that the Pirates are going to be tough to put away on Wednesday...in fact I would think that the majority of fellow Cardinal fans know this as well.

 
Ghost Rider said:
No way is Game 5 a foregone conclusion. Granted, as a Cardinals fan, I would rather have both home field and Wainwright, but anything can happen in a winner-takes-all game.
Click to expand...
Not a forgone conclusion, but the Cards are probably 70% likely to win now. Up from 20-25% this morning.

 
monessen said:
My brother was there and said the crowd was a mix of disappointment and disbelief when McCutchen popped out. But i agree with you, Fred. The 2013 Pirates are a "tough out."
Click to expand...
Crowd seemed weak to me. Just because the Cueto chant was legendary last Tuesday, doesnt mean you need to chant the pitcher's name all that often, when he's throwing a no hitter even moreso.

 
Drunken Cowboy said:
Ghost Rider said:
No way is Game 5 a foregone conclusion. Granted, as a Cardinals fan, I would rather have both home field and Wainwright, but anything can happen in a winner-takes-all game.
Click to expand...
Not a forgone conclusion, but the Cards are probably 70% likely to win now. Up from 20-25% this morning.
Click to expand...
I didnt check Vegas odds, but before the game started Id guess Bucs were 60% favorites. Now, Id put it at Cards 75-80%, but maybe Im just pessimistic after tonights game. Regardless of home/away, I was more worried about Wacha tonight than Wainwright game 1 to be honest. We've hit Wainwright this season at times.

 
I assure you there are Cardinals fans with haunting memories of Wainwright's outing against the Nats last year. Not a foregone conclusion at all. But for a Cards' fan, this is the scenario you want if you have to go to a game 5. Call it... cautious optimism.

 
I like the Pirates chances. They have proven that they can hit Wainwright. The Cards have not proven yet that they can hit Cole. The last 7 or 8 teams to face Cole haven't figured it out either.

That said, the more experienced team, playing at home, evens the odds. Gonna be a great game.

Win or lose, it will still be a great, memorable, and very successful year for the Bucs. They have nothing to lose. If the Cards win, I will root for them throughout the rest of the playoffs. I just could never dis-like the Cards. No reason to.

 
Kenny Powers said:
Drunken Cowboy said:
Ghost Rider said:
No way is Game 5 a foregone conclusion. Granted, as a Cardinals fan, I would rather have both home field and Wainwright, but anything can happen in a winner-takes-all game.
Click to expand...
Not a forgone conclusion, but the Cards are probably 70% likely to win now. Up from 20-25% this morning.
Click to expand...
I didnt check Vegas odds, but before the game started Id guess Bucs were 60% favorites. Now, Id put it at Cards 75-80%, but maybe Im just pessimistic after tonights game. Regardless of home/away, I was more worried about Wacha tonight than Wainwright game 1 to be honest. We've hit Wainwright this season at times.
Click to expand...
I think the Pirates had a better than 60% chance to win game 4. Even with the loss they are 8-4 against the Cards in PNC.

 
Drunken Cowboy said:
Kenny Powers said:
Drunken Cowboy said:
Ghost Rider said:
No way is Game 5 a foregone conclusion. Granted, as a Cardinals fan, I would rather have both home field and Wainwright, but anything can happen in a winner-takes-all game.
Click to expand...
Not a forgone conclusion, but the Cards are probably 70% likely to win now. Up from 20-25% this morning.
Click to expand...
I didnt check Vegas odds, but before the game started Id guess Bucs were 60% favorites. Now, Id put it at Cards 75-80%, but maybe Im just pessimistic after tonights game. Regardless of home/away, I was more worried about Wacha tonight than Wainwright game 1 to be honest. We've hit Wainwright this season at times.
Click to expand...
I think the Pirates had a better than 60% chance to win game 4. Even with the loss they are 8-4 against the Cards in PNC.
Click to expand...
Are you being serious? Wacha against the Bucs > Morton against the cards. I would have been shocked if the pirates won game 4. I think game 5 is basically a coin flip

 
Bob Sacamano said:
I assure you there are Cardinals fans with haunting memories of Wainwright's outing against the Nats last year. Not a foregone conclusion at all. But for a Cards' fan, this is the scenario you want if you have to go to a game 5. Call it... cautious optimism.
Click to expand...
In a presser today he admitted that he was on fumes last year - but this year he feels much better - I just hope he feels really good tomorrow.

 
Copeman said:
I like the Pirates chances. They have proven that they can hit Wainwright. The Cards have not proven yet that they can hit Cole. The last 7 or 8 teams to face Cole haven't figured it out either.

That said, the more experienced team, playing at home, evens the odds. Gonna be a great game.

Win or lose, it will still be a great, memorable, and very successful year for the Bucs. They have nothing to lose. If the Cards win, I will root for them throughout the rest of the playoffs. I just could never dis-like the Cards. No reason to.
Click to expand...
In fairness to the Cardinals that was the first time seeing him - he was really painting the edges and I felt that the Cardinal batters were being too patient and thinking the pitches were off the plate. I'm thinking that after looking at some tape they will protect the plate a bit more aggressively. Hopefully he finds the other side of those close pitches and gets behind a batter or two. But that was some great pitching the other day - amazing young pitching on display in this series.

 
ffldrew said:
Copeman said:
I like the Pirates chances. They have proven that they can hit Wainwright. The Cards have not proven yet that they can hit Cole. The last 7 or 8 teams to face Cole haven't figured it out either.

That said, the more experienced team, playing at home, evens the odds. Gonna be a great game.

Win or lose, it will still be a great, memorable, and very successful year for the Bucs. They have nothing to lose. If the Cards win, I will root for them throughout the rest of the playoffs. I just could never dis-like the Cards. No reason to.
Click to expand...
In fairness to the Cardinals that was the first time seeing him - he was really painting the edges and I felt that the Cardinal batters were being too patient and thinking the pitches were off the plate. I'm thinking that after looking at some tape they will protect the plate a bit more aggressively. Hopefully he finds the other side of those close pitches and gets behind a batter or two. But that was some great pitching the other day - amazing young pitching on display in this series.
Click to expand...
In fairness to the Pirates, STL jumped out to a 7-0 lead in the 2nd inning. It may have been Game 1, but Im guessing that game was a lost cause to a degree in the Pirates' players' minds' considering the score that early, even against a scrub let alone Wainwright. They've hit Wainwright before though, and assuming they dont start out with a nearly insurmountable deficit tomorrow, I dont fear him like I did Wacha. Im thinking the Buccos are feeling positive as well.

 
Kenny Powers said:
ffldrew said:
Copeman said:
I like the Pirates chances. They have proven that they can hit Wainwright. The Cards have not proven yet that they can hit Cole. The last 7 or 8 teams to face Cole haven't figured it out either.

That said, the more experienced team, playing at home, evens the odds. Gonna be a great game.

Win or lose, it will still be a great, memorable, and very successful year for the Bucs. They have nothing to lose. If the Cards win, I will root for them throughout the rest of the playoffs. I just could never dis-like the Cards. No reason to.
Click to expand...
In fairness to the Cardinals that was the first time seeing him - he was really painting the edges and I felt that the Cardinal batters were being too patient and thinking the pitches were off the plate. I'm thinking that after looking at some tape they will protect the plate a bit more aggressively. Hopefully he finds the other side of those close pitches and gets behind a batter or two. But that was some great pitching the other day - amazing young pitching on display in this series.
Click to expand...
In fairness to the Pirates, STL jumped out to a 7-0 lead in the 2nd inning. It may have been Game 1, but Im guessing that game was a lost cause to a degree in the Pirates' players' minds' considering the score that early, even against a scrub let alone Wainwright. They've hit Wainwright before though, and assuming they dont start out with a nearly insurmountable deficit tomorrow, I dont fear him like I did Wacha. Im thinking the Buccos are feeling positive as well.
Click to expand...
In fairness to Wainright, he's been downright dominant against the Bucs all year in St. Louis. Cole better bring his A + game today or it will not be pretty. I think he will and I think we'll get a classic.......

 
Wainwright has pitched against the Pirates four times this year, and has allowed only 8 earned runs in 28 innings (2.57 ERA).

 
One more point:

Regular season Wainwright <> Post-season Wainwright.

Should be an excellent game and by no means a given for any team. But anyone preferring to face Wainwright in a series deciding game against anyone else on the roster...... :no:

 
Kenny Powers said:
ffldrew said:
Copeman said:
I like the Pirates chances. They have proven that they can hit Wainwright. The Cards have not proven yet that they can hit Cole. The last 7 or 8 teams to face Cole haven't figured it out either.

That said, the more experienced team, playing at home, evens the odds. Gonna be a great game.

Win or lose, it will still be a great, memorable, and very successful year for the Bucs. They have nothing to lose. If the Cards win, I will root for them throughout the rest of the playoffs. I just could never dis-like the Cards. No reason to.
Click to expand...
In fairness to the Cardinals that was the first time seeing him - he was really painting the edges and I felt that the Cardinal batters were being too patient and thinking the pitches were off the plate. I'm thinking that after looking at some tape they will protect the plate a bit more aggressively. Hopefully he finds the other side of those close pitches and gets behind a batter or two. But that was some great pitching the other day - amazing young pitching on display in this series.
Click to expand...
In fairness to the Pirates, STL jumped out to a 7-0 lead in the 2nd inning. It may have been Game 1, but Im guessing that game was a lost cause to a degree in the Pirates' players' minds' considering the score that early, even against a scrub let alone Wainwright. They've hit Wainwright before though, and assuming they dont start out with a nearly insurmountable deficit tomorrow, I dont fear him like I did Wacha. Im thinking the Buccos are feeling positive as well.
Click to expand...
Wacha is good with the potential to be very good - but if you fear Wacha more than Wainwright then you are either overestimating Wacha or underestimating Wainwright. There is no one (outside of a healthy Chris Carpenter) that I would want taking the hill for a Game 5 or Game 7 other than Adam Wainwright.

 
Mr. Know-It-All said:
Kenny Powers said:
ffldrew said:
Copeman said:
I like the Pirates chances. They have proven that they can hit Wainwright. The Cards have not proven yet that they can hit Cole. The last 7 or 8 teams to face Cole haven't figured it out either.

That said, the more experienced team, playing at home, evens the odds. Gonna be a great game.

Win or lose, it will still be a great, memorable, and very successful year for the Bucs. They have nothing to lose. If the Cards win, I will root for them throughout the rest of the playoffs. I just could never dis-like the Cards. No reason to.
Click to expand...
In fairness to the Cardinals that was the first time seeing him - he was really painting the edges and I felt that the Cardinal batters were being too patient and thinking the pitches were off the plate. I'm thinking that after looking at some tape they will protect the plate a bit more aggressively. Hopefully he finds the other side of those close pitches and gets behind a batter or two. But that was some great pitching the other day - amazing young pitching on display in this series.
Click to expand...
In fairness to the Pirates, STL jumped out to a 7-0 lead in the 2nd inning. It may have been Game 1, but Im guessing that game was a lost cause to a degree in the Pirates' players' minds' considering the score that early, even against a scrub let alone Wainwright. They've hit Wainwright before though, and assuming they dont start out with a nearly insurmountable deficit tomorrow, I dont fear him like I did Wacha. Im thinking the Buccos are feeling positive as well.
Click to expand...
Wacha is good with the potential to be very good - but if you fear Wacha more than Wainwright then you are either overestimating Wacha or underestimating Wainwright. There is no one (outside of a healthy Chris Carpenter) that I would want taking the hill for a Game 5 or Game 7 other than Adam Wainwright.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

 
Mr. Know-It-All said:
Kenny Powers said:
ffldrew said:
Copeman said:
I like the Pirates chances. They have proven that they can hit Wainwright. The Cards have not proven yet that they can hit Cole. The last 7 or 8 teams to face Cole haven't figured it out either.

That said, the more experienced team, playing at home, evens the odds. Gonna be a great game.

Win or lose, it will still be a great, memorable, and very successful year for the Bucs. They have nothing to lose. If the Cards win, I will root for them throughout the rest of the playoffs. I just could never dis-like the Cards. No reason to.
Click to expand...
In fairness to the Cardinals that was the first time seeing him - he was really painting the edges and I felt that the Cardinal batters were being too patient and thinking the pitches were off the plate. I'm thinking that after looking at some tape they will protect the plate a bit more aggressively. Hopefully he finds the other side of those close pitches and gets behind a batter or two. But that was some great pitching the other day - amazing young pitching on display in this series.
Click to expand...
In fairness to the Pirates, STL jumped out to a 7-0 lead in the 2nd inning. It may have been Game 1, but Im guessing that game was a lost cause to a degree in the Pirates' players' minds' considering the score that early, even against a scrub let alone Wainwright. They've hit Wainwright before though, and assuming they dont start out with a nearly insurmountable deficit tomorrow, I dont fear him like I did Wacha. Im thinking the Buccos are feeling positive as well.
Click to expand...
Wacha is good with the potential to be very good - but if you fear Wacha more than Wainwright then you are either overestimating Wacha or underestimating Wainwright. There is no one (outside of a healthy Chris Carpenter) that I would want taking the hill for a Game 5 or Game 7 other than Adam Wainwright.
Click to expand...
 
Bob Sacamano said:
I know and share the love for Carp, but his stuff can't touch Wainwright's, all things being equal.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of leadership. Those two run that pitching staff - they are the heartbeat. So either is fine by me - you are right though that just pitching I'd go Wainwright.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If the Pirates can't produce any offense, I am going to blame Hurdle for his reluctancy to not use someone other than Morneau in the cleanup spot. Unless Morneau homers, then I'll lay blame elsewhere. Of course.

 
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