***Official 2014 World Cup Thread*** (4 Viewers)

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The nice thing about (well done) computer rankings is that they strip brand name out of the equation. And if you took the team names off the game summaries and looked only at the results Portugal really haven't been any better of late. And that's before they potentially lost their entire back line and starting GK.

Also, even as high as Costa Rica is ranked currently, I think they may actually be underrated. Just a hunch that they've come together at the right time and Campbell is having his coming out party.

 

[Sinn Fein]

For folks asking if the World Cup is more or less significant than other events.

Posted earlier, but dubious IMO. If it was this risky they'd have taken him out at the half down 3-0 and playing with 10 men.

Gotcha... sorry for repost.

my link

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Like I mentioned before..if Almeida is playing LB, I'd run Fab and Bedoya at him and Ronaldo all day. Makes Ronaldo track back causing him to run more and puts pressure on an out of position player.

Will be interesting to see how Fab plays -- whether he stays at home or they adopt your idea. Just a hunch that JK will want him to be aggressive.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Seems to me that if we don't get a point against Portugal our chances are incredibly slim. We would need to either beat Germany or rely on Ghana to beat Portugal and hope to squeeze through on goal differential.

Or tie Germany and have Ghana win/tie vs Port. None of those scenerios seems crazy especially if Germany has #1 wrapped up due to their ridiculous goal diff.

They seem unlikely to me, based on the first round of games. Germany's first win was impressive. Not sure we can hang with those guys even if they're playing for nothing.

 

[Steve Tasker]

FORZA AZZURRI!!!

 

[B Maverick]

So, if the US were to actually get the WC in 2022 - where would it be staged:

Brazil is using 12 stadiums, South Africa used 10, in 1994 US used 9 stadiums, for 24 teams.

My first guess was 12 cities/regions:

Miami

Washington

Boston

New York

Chicago

Dallas

Kansas City

Atlanta

Los Angeles

San Francisco

Seattle

Denver

Official Cities used in Bid:

Spoiler

Philadelphia - Lincoln Financial

Tampa - Raymond James

Boston - Gillette

Washington - FedEx Field

New York - MetLife Stadium

Miami - Sun Life Stadium

Atlanta - Georgia Dome

Baltimore - M&T

Houston - Reliant Stadium

Kansas City - Arrowhead

Indianapolis - Lucas Oil

Dallas - Cotton Bowl and Cowboys Stadium

Nashville - LP Field

San Diego - Qualcomm

Seattle - Husky Stadium and CenturyLink

Phoenix - U of Phoenix Stadium

Denver - Mile High

Los Angeles - Rose Bowl and Memorial Coliseum

Only real surprise for me is nothing in Chicago - seems like a natural place to host games. Also, not sure where FIFA is with FieldTurf - a number of stadiums have it - did see that Georgia Dome was listed as being able to install grass field, I suppose like Detroit did.

Supposedly fieldturf is not allowed for the men, so grass would need to be installed. The US Women are majorly upset since half the fields in their next WC in Canada are to be played on fieldturf not grass. They claim the men dont have to play on it, why should they?

 

[Sammy3469]

Like I mentioned before..if Almeida is playing LB, I'd run Fab and Bedoya at him and Ronaldo all day. Makes Ronaldo track back causing him to run more and puts pressure on an out of position player.

Will be interesting to see how Fab plays -- whether he stays at home or they adopt your idea. Just a hunch that JK will want him to be aggressive.

I've said this, but just because of this I won't be shocked if Ronaldo goes to the right quickly in this game. Give Nani that responsibility

 

[[icon]]

One more question... £

So Real Madrid paid ~£80MM Transfer fee couple years ago... now has Ronaldo on contract for £11MM/yr w/ £1B buyout.

That transfer was solely for the rights, correct? Team to team payment with zero going to Ronaldo?

Let's say this injury is bad (for sake of arguement). Real Madrid CAN'T be happy about him risking his career to play for WC Portugal, no? In the US the primary team could tell the player not to. Does that not work that way in Soccer?

Thanks again.

 

[Soulfly3]

One more question... £

So Real Madrid paid ~£80MM Transfer fee couple years ago... now has Ronaldo on contract for £11MM/yr w/ £1B buyout.

That transfer was solely for the rights, correct? Team to team payment with zero going to Ronaldo?

Let's say this injury is bad (for sake of arguement). Real Madrid CAN'T be happy about him risking his career to play for WC Portugal, no? In the US the primary team could tell the player not to. Does that not work that way in Soccer?

Thanks again.

buyouts are solely what one team pays another for the player.

they still have to negotiate w the player for his contract

 

[The Gator]

One more question... £

So Real Madrid paid ~£80MM Transfer fee couple years ago... now has Ronaldo on contract for £11MM/yr w/ £1B buyout.

That transfer was solely for the rights, correct? Team to team payment with zero going to Ronaldo?

Let's say this injury is bad (for sake of arguement). Real Madrid CAN'T be happy about him risking his career to play for WC Portugal, no? In the US the primary team could tell the player not to. Does that not work that way in Soccer?

Thanks again.

Tendonosis is a very nasty injury to have, doesn't go away without a lot of test.

If I'm Madrid, I want the USA to win 6-0 and Cristiano to be done playing on the WC on Sunday

 

[NewlyRetired]

One more question... £

So Real Madrid paid ~£80MM Transfer fee couple years ago... now has Ronaldo on contract for £11MM/yr w/ £1B buyout.

That transfer was solely for the rights, correct? Team to team payment with zero going to Ronaldo?

Let's say this injury is bad (for sake of arguement). Real Madrid CAN'T be happy about him risking his career to play for WC Portugal, no? In the US the primary team could tell the player not to. Does that not work that way in Soccer?

Thanks again.

it is different for every play but many players do get a percentage of the transfer fee, around 10% is the number I have heard in the past. Note that a buyout and a transfer fee I think are slightly different(I think?)

I think if a team does not release a player during an international date, the team can be penalized by FIFA. I am unaware of what the penalty is as I do not recall this ever happening where it got to the point of needing a punishment.

Many teams do put pressure on players to avoid the friendlies but most every team releases players for the major tournaments with out a ton of squaking.

Cro makes around 21m per year in Euro's. I think that is like ~16 millions pounds

 

[B Maverick]

One more question... £

So Real Madrid paid ~£80MM Transfer fee couple years ago... now has Ronaldo on contract for £11MM/yr w/ £1B buyout.

That transfer was solely for the rights, correct? Team to team payment with zero going to Ronaldo?

Let's say this injury is bad (for sake of arguement). Real Madrid CAN'T be happy about him risking his career to play for WC Portugal, no? In the US the primary team could tell the player not to. Does that not work that way in Soccer?

Thanks again.

True, RM wont be happy. There is an extremely intense Club vs Country fight and this would add major fuel to the fire. Clubs are often accused of fabricating injuries to keep a top player out of international games due to upcoming club schedules. Usually around friendlies. As NR said, for major tournaments country usually wins with no fight.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

One more question... £

So Real Madrid paid ~£80MM Transfer fee couple years ago... now has Ronaldo on contract for £11MM/yr w/ £1B buyout.

That transfer was solely for the rights, correct? Team to team payment with zero going to Ronaldo?

Let's say this injury is bad (for sake of arguement). Real Madrid CAN'T be happy about him risking his career to play for WC Portugal, no? In the US the primary team could tell the player not to. Does that not work that way in Soccer?

Thanks again.

This is a point of contention between club teams and national teams. For better or worse, FIFA has always had enough power toy insist that national teams have the last say for any game that matters (qualifiers or major tournaments). A club team can't insist that a player not play. Club teams obviously have insurance policies to protect against this stuff (and in this case, Ronaldo has more than made up any investment Real has made).

 

[Soulfly3]

FIFA pays all wages for players injured on Int'l Duty.

Of course they dont cover the # of games lost by losing said player. merketing etc

So, you know...

 

[guru_007]

Italy -1 for me early.

anyone do any betting in here?

 

[guru_007]

Also like the under, but no one likes betting on unders.

 

[The Gator]

Like I mentioned before..if Almeida is playing LB, I'd run Fab and Bedoya at him and Ronaldo all day. Makes Ronaldo track back causing him to run more and puts pressure on an out of position player.

Will be interesting to see how Fab plays -- whether he stays at home or they adopt your idea. Just a hunch that JK will want him to be aggressive.

I've said this, but just because of this I won't be shocked if Ronaldo goes to the right quickly in this game. Give Nani that responsibility

Good call, in which case RIP DMB

 

[NewlyRetired]

Just realized that some of the guys on the US team have accents. Not as homegrown as I had pictured in my head, I guess.

Jermaine Jones, John Brooks, Fabian Johnson, and Tim Chandler are all born-and-bred Germans. Mix Diskerud is born-and-bred Norwegian.

Julian Green and Aron Johansson were both born in the US but raised elsewhere (Green in Germany; Johansson in Iceland).

It is a confusing system for both old and new fans.

Then you look at two players who could have made the team this year like Diego Fagundez and Darlington Nagbe, who are both as American as one can possibly be and yet they can't play for the US because of various citizenship laws.

 

[charvik]

Italy -1 for me early.

anyone do any betting in here?

:hi: I have Italy -1 as well.

 

[NewlyRetired]

One more question... £

So Real Madrid paid ~£80MM Transfer fee couple years ago... now has Ronaldo on contract for £11MM/yr w/ £1B buyout.

That transfer was solely for the rights, correct? Team to team payment with zero going to Ronaldo?

Let's say this injury is bad (for sake of arguement). Real Madrid CAN'T be happy about him risking his career to play for WC Portugal, no? In the US the primary team could tell the player not to. Does that not work that way in Soccer?

Thanks again.

True, RM wont be happy. There is an extremely intense Club vs Country fight and this would add major fuel to the fire. Clubs are often accused of fabricating injuries to keep a top player out of international games due to upcoming club schedules. Usually around friendlies. As NR said, for major tournaments country usually wins with no fight.

I remember Chandler always had "injuries" to miss friendlies and then would play for his club team shortly after.

This is a very difficult situation for younger players because all the team has to say is "sure go away to the friendly, your back up looks ready to fill your shoes with no issues"

 

[charvik]

Woz> you suck

Sorry guys. That damn Uruguayan dude is quick.

What he showed today is why I think he is truly in the conversation with Messi and CRonaldo for best player in the world right now.

He isn't a guy that the entire team focusses on shutting out, yet. Maybe he should be, but right now, he isn't. He still finds sneaky openings (to his credit). Messi and Ronaldo are double to trill teamed every time they are near an opening. Especially Messi since he plays directly in the middle. Makes it much easier to collapse on him at every touch. I think that is way Ronaldo likes to line up on the sideline.

Agreed. Suarez is a classic finisher in the highest sense, but of what I have seen (maybe those that watch more can correct me) he isn't a creator. He doesn't control and set-up like the other guys do.

I've watched every game he has played this year, and last, and to categorize him as a pure striker isn't a fair comparison. Like has been pointed out earlier in the thread, he led the EPL in assists as well, and he is very good at shaking out chances for others. A pure striker would be extremely selfish, but Suarez is actually very good at evaluating the chances, and will pass if he feels a team mate has a better chance (more often than not at least).

 

[The Gator]

OFFICIAL XI: ITALIA: Buffon; Abate, Barzagli, Chiellini, Darmian; De Rossi; Motta, Pirlo, Marchisio; Candreva; Balotelli.

Two natural fullback in Abate and Darmian. Motta for Verratti.

Italy 110% preparing for the fast counter. beautiful.

I WANT MY VERRATTI

 

[NewlyRetired]

One thing I never understood in soccer in all my years watching is why teams won't try a shadow marker on a key opponent player.

Sacrifice one player offensively and tell him never to leave his mark at any time.

In the England Italy game it struck me how much free space Pirlo had all game and we are not talking about the worlds most mobile player here. Pirlo dominated that game because he got the ball when ever he wanted.

It must not work tactically because no one ever tries it.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

One more question... £

So Real Madrid paid ~£80MM Transfer fee couple years ago... now has Ronaldo on contract for £11MM/yr w/ £1B buyout.

That transfer was solely for the rights, correct? Team to team payment with zero going to Ronaldo?

Let's say this injury is bad (for sake of arguement). Real Madrid CAN'T be happy about him risking his career to play for WC Portugal, no? In the US the primary team could tell the player not to. Does that not work that way in Soccer?

Thanks again.

Tendonosis is a very nasty injury to have, doesn't go away without a lot of test.

If I'm Madrid, I want the USA to win 6-0 and Cristiano to be done playing on the WC on Sunday

They might need to actually hold onto the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time to accomplish that.

 

[The Gator]

One more question... £

So Real Madrid paid ~£80MM Transfer fee couple years ago... now has Ronaldo on contract for £11MM/yr w/ £1B buyout.

That transfer was solely for the rights, correct? Team to team payment with zero going to Ronaldo?

Let's say this injury is bad (for sake of arguement). Real Madrid CAN'T be happy about him risking his career to play for WC Portugal, no? In the US the primary team could tell the player not to. Does that not work that way in Soccer?

Thanks again.

Tendonosis is a very nasty injury to have, doesn't go away without a lot of test.If I'm Madrid, I want the USA to win 6-0 and Cristiano to be done playing on the WC on Sunday

They might need to actually hold onto the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time to accomplish that.

This is the game to do it..Portugal won't press them off the pitch, they're more of a counter team and will concede possession...it's up the USA to do something with it

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Anyone think we might see something completely different with Altidore out, Portugal's back line in shambles, and the challenge of dealing with Ronaldo?

 

[El Floppo]

The nice thing about (well done) computer rankings is that they strip brand name out of the equation. And if you took the team names off the game summaries and looked only at the results Portugal really haven't been any better of late. And that's before they potentially lost their entire back line and starting GK.

Also, even as high as Costa Rica is ranked currently, I think they may actually be underrated. Just a hunch that they've come together at the right time and Campbell is having his coming out party.

I don't remember much in general, but I don't remember Campbell being much of anything for Costa Rica previously. Brand new name for me.

 

[[icon]]

Italy -1 for me early.

anyone do any betting in here?

:hi: I have Italy -1 as well.

Italy was -1.5 on Sportsbook so I took them -188

:square:

 

[Leroy Hoard]

So US only needs a tie to go forward?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

One thing I never understood in soccer in all my years watching is why teams won't try a shadow marker on a key opponent player.

Sacrifice one player offensively and tell him never to leave his mark at any time.

In the England Italy game it struck me how much free space Pirlo had all game and we are not talking about the worlds most mobile player here. Pirlo dominated that game because he got the ball when ever he wanted.

It must not work tactically because no one ever tries it.

I thought the idea is that it makes it too easy for teams to mess up your defensive shape if someone goes full man to man? Basically the guy being marked can drag a defender wherever he wants to.

 

[El Floppo]

One thing I never understood in soccer in all my years watching is why teams won't try a shadow marker on a key opponent player.

Sacrifice one player offensively and tell him never to leave his mark at any time.

In the England Italy game it struck me how much free space Pirlo had all game and we are not talking about the worlds most mobile player here. Pirlo dominated that game because he got the ball when ever he wanted.

It must not work tactically because no one ever tries it.

I've wondered this too, since this is how we did things in college (and HS/youth).

 

[jonessed]

One thing I never understood in soccer in all my years watching is why teams won't try a shadow marker on a key opponent player.

Sacrifice one player offensively and tell him never to leave his mark at any time.

In the England Italy game it struck me how much free space Pirlo had all game and we are not talking about the worlds most mobile player here. Pirlo dominated that game because he got the ball when ever he wanted.

It must not work tactically because no one ever tries it.

This definitely happens. I don't know why England didn't do it to Pirlo, but teams will man-mark opponents to limit their space. Usually it's a DM on a playmaker from what I can tell.I don't think it happens all that regularly because it can screw with the team's defensive shape if the marked player floats around a lot.

 

[Sinn Fein]

One thing I never understood in soccer in all my years watching is why teams won't try a shadow marker on a key opponent player.

Sacrifice one player offensively and tell him never to leave his mark at any time.

In the England Italy game it struck me how much free space Pirlo had all game and we are not talking about the worlds most mobile player here. Pirlo dominated that game because he got the ball when ever he wanted.

It must not work tactically because no one ever tries it.

I would say i would be hard to pull off for 90 minutes - and the potential for the player, and the team, to fall asleep against a top talent is great. The team would be lulled into not paying attention because you have a player man-marking, and then it only takes a moment for the player to get distracted, and see the opponent get loose.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

btw... Dempsey sure sounded like he was starting in that interview last night. Didn't sound like him sitting was even a conversation.

 

[The Gator]

Anyone think we might see something completely different with Altidore out, Portugal's back line in shambles, and the challenge of dealing with Ronaldo?

JK shouldn't change too much, that'll cause problems imo. Same personnel plus Wond(imo) and just tweak the build up tactics. Minor changes will help, over doing/thinking it could lead to a disaster.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Anyone think we might see something completely different with Altidore out, Portugal's back line in shambles, and the challenge of dealing with Ronaldo?

Radically different? No - but maybe more of a flatter 4-4-2, with Dempsey and Bacon both up top, instead of having a lone striker.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

One thing I never understood in soccer in all my years watching is why teams won't try a shadow marker on a key opponent player.

Sacrifice one player offensively and tell him never to leave his mark at any time.

In the England Italy game it struck me how much free space Pirlo had all game and we are not talking about the worlds most mobile player here. Pirlo dominated that game because he got the ball when ever he wanted.

It must not work tactically because no one ever tries it.

In the Euros, Rooney was supposed to do that. There are clips of Hart screaming at him to do it.

I'd be surprised if Bradley doesn't man mark Moutinho on Sunday.

 

[Jaysus]

btw... Dempsey sure sounded like he was starting in that interview last night. Didn't sound like him sitting was even a conversation.

Did he also sound like he was about to start rapping at any second?

 

[El Floppo]

One thing I never understood in soccer in all my years watching is why teams won't try a shadow marker on a key opponent player.

Sacrifice one player offensively and tell him never to leave his mark at any time.

In the England Italy game it struck me how much free space Pirlo had all game and we are not talking about the worlds most mobile player here. Pirlo dominated that game because he got the ball when ever he wanted.

It must not work tactically because no one ever tries it.

This definitely happens. I don't know why England didn't do it to Pirlo, but teams will man-mark opponents to limit their space. Usually it's a DM on a playmaker from what I can tell.

So tough to tell watching on TV screen. I've seen guys keep an eye on key players, but it still seems like they keep to their zonal/tactical shape and don't man-mark... at least in the sense that I think Andy and I are talking about.

I played in a 3-5-2 in college my senior year. One game against lower competition, they had one guy who was amazing. I played one of the central MFs- coach told me to man-mark him... screamed at me for taking a couple touches forward with the ball when space opened up in front of me- didn't want me to leave the guy's side EVEN when we/I had the ball.

 

[B Maverick]

One thing I never understood in soccer in all my years watching is why teams won't try a shadow marker on a key opponent player.

Sacrifice one player offensively and tell him never to leave his mark at any time.

In the England Italy game it struck me how much free space Pirlo had all game and we are not talking about the worlds most mobile player here. Pirlo dominated that game because he got the ball when ever he wanted.

It must not work tactically because no one ever tries it.

This was something that I remember doing when I was younger. I am guessing but with all the interchanging (Ronaldo could switch sides with Nani at any moment) you would lose your shape if you shadowed a guy, esp one that is more of a winger. Leaves you vulnerable with open space if one guy follows him around. Further, the better teams will have multiple players that can beat you so marking a single guy doesnt have a high success rate. Teams are better off keeping shape and playing their game then letting an opposing player dictate who is where. Just got to account for him at all times while not overlooking the other players on the pitch

 

[El Floppo]

btw... Dempsey sure sounded like he was starting in that interview last night. Didn't sound like him sitting was even a conversation.

mouth-breathing Dempsey >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wondo

 

[NewlyRetired]

So US only needs a tie to go forward?

No. A draw does not mathematically assure they go through.

Even a win won't (right now).

If Germany beats Ghana then a US win puts them through.

If Germany beats Ghana then a US draw puts them in excellent position to advance but the 3rd games still have to be played out since Portugal could catch the US on a tie breaker.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

So US only needs a tie to go forward?

No. A draw does not mathematically assure they go through.

Even a win won't (right now).

If Germany beats Ghana then a US win puts them through.

If Germany beats Ghana then a US draw puts them in excellent position to advance but the 3rd games still have to be played out since Portugal could catch the US on a tie breaker.

thanks

 

[gianmarco]

Anyone think we might see something completely different with Altidore out, Portugal's back line in shambles, and the challenge of dealing with Ronaldo?

Radically different? No - but maybe more of a flatter 4-4-2, with Dempsey and Bacon both up top, instead of having a lone striker.

Did someone say Bacon?

 

[B Maverick]

Anyone think we might see something completely different with Altidore out, Portugal's back line in shambles, and the challenge of dealing with Ronaldo?

Radically different? No - but maybe more of a flatter 4-4-2, with Dempsey and Bacon both up top, instead of having a lone striker.

Seems it might be time for the US to adopt the false 9!!!!!!!

 

[El Floppo]

Anyone think we might see something completely different with Altidore out, Portugal's back line in shambles, and the challenge of dealing with Ronaldo?

Radically different? No - but maybe more of a flatter 4-4-2, with Dempsey and Bacon both up top, instead of having a lone striker.

Or one of the forwards drops deeper to help antagonize/limit the MFs ability to feed the ball to Ronaldo.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Just realized that some of the guys on the US team have accents. Not as homegrown as I had pictured in my head, I guess.

Jermaine Jones, John Brooks, Fabian Johnson, and Tim Chandler are all born-and-bred Germans. Mix Diskerud is born-and-bred Norwegian.Julian Green and Aron Johansson were both born in the US but raised elsewhere (Green in Germany; Johansson in Iceland).

It is a confusing system for both old and new fans.

Then you look at two players who could have made the team this year like Diego Fagundez and Darlington Nagbe, who are both as American as one can possibly be and yet they can't play for the US because of various citizenship laws.

It's not unique to the US either. There are plenty of players that could play for more than one country.Some examples from Germany:

Miroslav Klose - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 8.

Lukas Podolski - born in Poland and moved to Germany when he was 2.

Jerome Boateng - born in Germany, but his father is from Ghana. His half brother plays for Ghana.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Anyone think we might see something completely different with Altidore out, Portugal's back line in shambles, and the challenge of dealing with Ronaldo?

Radically different? No - but maybe more of a flatter 4-4-2, with Dempsey and Bacon both up top, instead of having a lone striker.

Did someone say Bacon?

Love it!!

 

[NewlyRetired]

One thing I never understood in soccer in all my years watching is why teams won't try a shadow marker on a key opponent player.

Sacrifice one player offensively and tell him never to leave his mark at any time.

In the England Italy game it struck me how much free space Pirlo had all game and we are not talking about the worlds most mobile player here. Pirlo dominated that game because he got the ball when ever he wanted.

It must not work tactically because no one ever tries it.

In the Euros, Rooney was supposed to do that. There are clips of Hart screaming at him to do it.

I'd be surprised if Bradley doesn't man mark Moutinho on Sunday.

I am not talking about generic man marking.

Bradley can't do what I am suggesting because he is too important offensively to the team.

I know many teams man mark, but my question was much more strict than a typical man markers responsibility.

 

[Steve Tasker]

One more question... £

So Real Madrid paid ~£80MM Transfer fee couple years ago... now has Ronaldo on contract for £11MM/yr w/ £1B buyout.

That transfer was solely for the rights, correct? Team to team payment with zero going to Ronaldo?

Let's say this injury is bad (for sake of arguement). Real Madrid CAN'T be happy about him risking his career to play for WC Portugal, no? In the US the primary team could tell the player not to. Does that not work that way in Soccer?

Thanks again.

True, RM wont be happy. There is an extremely intense Club vs Country fight and this would add major fuel to the fire. Clubs are often accused of fabricating injuries to keep a top player out of international games due to upcoming club schedules. Usually around friendlies. As NR said, for major tournaments country usually wins with no fight.

I remember Chandler always had "injuries" to miss friendlies and then would play for his club team shortly after.

This is a very difficult situation for younger players because all the team has to say is "sure go away to the friendly, your back up looks ready to fill your shoes with no issues"

Wasn't there speculation that Chandler wanted to keep his Germany options open, though? Or was it his club holding him out?