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Official 2015 Cowboys Thread- 4-12. We won the 4th pick! (2 Viewers)

The Cowboys can't be so arrogant to think any RB will do behind that line can they? Or thinking they would get AP? I'm not a fan of Jerry but he can't be left with this without a decent plancan he?

Teams are pretty well set right now unless he thinks he can grab anyone the better teams drop.

But then Green Bay did get Ryan Grant from a RB heavy Giants team for just a 6th and what did Seattle pay for Lynch a 3rd?

 
Brown fumbles, no thanks.

It's McFadden. He can run, he can catch and he can block. The question is can he stay healthy?

I believe today's info about Tate and Felix is because the Cowboys haven't been able to find a trade that makes sense ATM.

 
Jerry Jones: "Cowboys' running game better than last season."

Then he watched his backs in OTAs and says we better some free agents in here pronto.

 
I have to think that combo of D-Mac, Randle, Williams, and Dunbar is serviceable. Also on another note I absolutely love Dez and his allegiance to the Cowboys showing up to mini camp working out even with contract dispute. They really need to sign him ASAP and set the market.

 
What's concensus on Peterson's trade value, a 1st? I know he's an All-World RB but I feel like usage, age, and last year's suspension introduce an element of uncertainty to his trade value.

I feel like sneaking him away for a 2nd wouldn't be too unrealistic. 2nd and a 3rd wouldn't be too bad either if the picks came in different years.

 
Heard a crazy stat on the FBG podcast. If you counted just yards before contact for Demarco Murray last year, he still would have been the 8th highest rusher in the NFL. I think the Cowboys will be fine with what they've got at RB, but wouldn't be surprised to see them trade a 4th or 5th for another one.

 
Heard a crazy stat on the FBG podcast. If you counted just yards before contact for Demarco Murray last year, he still would have been the 8th highest rusher in the NFL. I think the Cowboys will be fine with what they've got at RB, but wouldn't be surprised to see them trade a 4th or 5th for another one.
I saw the stat a while back, I think Murray had around 1100 yards rushing before contact.

 
Randle is going to be good. He just has to protect the ball. If D-Mac is healthy I like his big play potential. But we need another RB to start camp. I am finding Daniel Thomas intriguing on the cheap.

 
What's concensus on Peterson's trade value, a 1st? I know he's an All-World RB but I feel like usage, age, and last year's suspension introduce an element of uncertainty to his trade value.

I feel like sneaking him away for a 2nd wouldn't be too unrealistic. 2nd and a 3rd wouldn't be too bad either if the picks came in different years.
Probably more than just a 1st. They think with him they are a playoff team and he helps Bridgewater's development.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
carverlee said:
Yeah, that's the knock on him. He can run and catch but can't stay healthy or pass block.
His pass protection technique and ability is good, better than Randle or Dunbar's. He's had issues learning assignments in new systems like any young back. He destroys those blitzing LBs in Sturm's piece and criticizing him for going low is silly on both occasions. He is a physical player, very willing in protection. With a year to learn reads and assignments, this shouldn't be an issue. If it remains so, then we have a learning problem.

He's been healthy for a long time but then he hasn't been playing in actual games. His last injury was October 2012. It was a shoulder injury. He wasn't fully recovered from the previous season's torn patellar. He was running scared by admission, coming back too soon. Patellars have ended a lot of careers.

“My second year I should not have been out there,” Williams said. “My trainers know it, people on the team know it.

“You can’t run scared, you’re bound to hurt something else. I’m lucky I hurt my shoulder instead of hurting my knee again.”
In part this explains the poor numbers but the story gets uglier. Early in 2013 he pulled himself from practices feeling his knee still wasn't right. MRIs showed nothing wrong.

But the spring of 2013 was, unbeknownst to him, the beginning of the end of his Cardinals’ career. Williams began experiencing pain and inflammation in the “fatty pad” under the patellar tendon in his right knee. He said he had two MRIs between that spring and training camp. Williams said after reading the MRIs the Cardinals told him there wasn’t anything wrong with his knee. The inflammation and pain persisted and Williams had flashbacks to 2012.

About a week into training camp, he pulled himself out of practice.

“I had to take myself out and stop practicing because it was something that I felt could’ve hurt me more if I was out there running timid again,” he said.
You know the coaches thought Williams was scared or damaged and grew frustrated. He admits this in a roundabout way. He started taking injections.

Knowing he needed to return to the field soon, Williams said he resorted to injections. First was cortisone shots, he said, but they didn’t work. Then Williams said he tried plasma injections and eventually nova cane.

He returned to practice Aug. 22, a few days before Arizona hosted San Diego in the third preseason game. Earlier that week, Williams said he was injected with eight shots in one day.
By going easy on his knee he never worked with special teams and this was the staff's reason for keeping him inactive. RBs who aren't bell cows have to play specials, but I suspect the frustrating three year long recovery from the patellar was the bigger issue with his inactivity and eventual release. Dallas also used his inexperience with specials as reason for putting him on the practice squad last year. Otherwise he looked like their best ball carrier not named Murray.

The most interesting bit is late in 2013 when Williams still inactive was finally feeling 100%.

Williams again thought he had a chance to play in Week 13 at Philadelphia when the starting running back was out with a knee injury.

“I asked if I was going to dress out and I was told, ‘I don’t know.’” Williams said. “And I knew that meant no. So, you know, I just took that as I’m fighting a business right now. It has nothing to do with my ability on the football field because I showed these guys every Wednesday, Thursday and Friday what I’m capable of doing. And what I was doing out there, not to toot my own horn, it was filthy. It was filthy and I was back. And everybody knew I was back.
The idea of a fully healthy and filthy 25 year old Ryan Williams is more interesting than any back on Dallas' roster or available on other teams not named Peterson. Pass protection should not be an issue with a year learning the details, and neither should special teams considering the same year and how hard he claims to have worked on them.

Maybe he never was what people like Waldman thought he was. Maybe the injury took that from him. Maybe not.

 
Interesting information. For Randle owners, I'm sure the temptation is to shoot down any and all suggestions that imply someone else getting the starting nod. If Ryan Williams is as "nasty" as he says he is, he should win the competition this offseason. If this is about politics, we should not waste our time talking about him and instead focus on guys who will actually have an opportunity. In reality, that is who will win this job. The player given the best opportunity to succeed. Behind that line, Trent Richardson could be relevant.

 
Interesting information. For Randle owners, I'm sure the temptation is to shoot down any and all suggestions that imply someone else getting the starting nod. If Ryan Williams is as "nasty" as he says he is, he should win the competition this offseason. If this is about politics, we should not waste our time talking about him and instead focus on guys who will actually have an opportunity. In reality, that is who will win this job. The player given the best opportunity to succeed. Behind that line, Trent Richardson could be relevant.
Well they graded him higher than Murray back in that draft, and they even looked into trading for him when he was supposedly healthy and perpetually inactive in Arizona, and he was signed for a bigger bonus than McFadden with very similar 2 year numbers. So I think he belongs in the discussion for now, and I think Dallas sincerely wants him in the competition.

But this is Dallas, not Seattle, and the competition is a little politicized, to use your term. Randle, based on some nice work they want more of, is safe ("what if he had 20 carries?" was Jerry's question last year). McFadden based on name and because of an old infatuation that led to the Felix pick, is safe. Unless Williams or someone else makes a huge case separating himself through preseason, this is your early committee with Randle leading the rotation being my best guess.

The game for Williams is winning the boring #3 job while being behind the curve in all important special teams play. Chances are they only carry three backs. Williams or Dunbar is probably out. Maybe Tate betters them and they're both gone. To me Williams is just the most interesting of them all.

There's a lot of ifs here, but if he finishes preseason at #3 that probably means the talent is finally emerging and he will work his way into more pt. If that happens he has much better vision that McFadden for this scheme and it's just a matter of time before his touches start climbing. There's nothing to get excited about yet, but it interests me, obviously, a lot.

 
I have to question anyone who is open to trading a first round or even second round pick for Adrian Peterson. I just feel like that's a gross overpayment for maybe 1-4 good years. If that's the route your considering then why not just keep Murray?

 
I can't find stats on yards after contact for RB's but I heard Murray would have ranked 5th with over 1150 yds without a single broken tackle. If true, Old man Jerry may be right.

 
I can't find stats on yards after contact for RB's but I heard Murray would have ranked 5th with over 1150 yds without a single broken tackle. If true, Old man Jerry may be right.
Murray has always been a student of his craft. He ran with rare patience and vision last year. Few backs would have had the yards before contact that he had. Those yards represent more than good blocking.

 
(USA Today)Updating an ongoing story, the Dallas Cowboys have moved on from the idea of trading for Minnesota Vikings RB Adrian Peterson, despite persistent rumors, according to The Dallas Morning News' Brandon George. Don't entirely rule out anything when it comes to Dallas owner and general manager Jerry Jones, George says, but the belief is that the organization is largely content with their current crop of running backs.

 
I think our biggest concern is if the coaching staff lets this RB competition bleed too deep into the regular season. Murray succeeded because he was the workhorse. Our problem is two-fold and circular. First, we need our staff to realize that we need a workhorse. Second, 2/3 of our RBs are probably incapable of workhorse duties. This might result in questioning the whole workhorse thing to begin with though I hope they don't fall into that trap.

I'm convinced that all 3 of our RBs can be extremely productive for us if given the opportunity, but the problem is that we need longevity and reliability.

McFadden didn't get injured last year but only had 150 carries. He's almost a height/weight clone of Murray physically with significantly better acceleration and long speed. He is thinner however and runs much more upright during contact. I have faith in McFadden's ability game to game but we're nuts if we expect 16 games out of him. Last I checked, we're expecting to play more than 16 games around here and I'd be incredibly nervous watching defenders lunge at this guys legs late in the season.

Randle is another Murray clone but I haven't studied him closely enough to pass judgment on if he can be our reliable workhorse.

Chaos Commish's post about Williams was very interesting, but he's what, 4 or 5 years into the league and we're still looking at college tape to figure him out? He also doesn't fit our "prototype" so I feel like he gets the 3rd shot if things stay as is. A part of me is really intrigued with his potential if he returns to form, but I feel like we hear this "if he returns to form" story quite often in the NFL and the odds may not in Williams favor.

I'd be crazy not to mention that AP fits our staff's RB prototype as well, just saying.

 
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Sure AD fits the mold for the Cowboys, but he just seems too expensive.

This just screams rbbc to me. Or perhaps just going with whoever happens to be upright that week.

 
He's almost a height/weight clone of Murray physically with significantly better acceleration and long speed.
At this point in their careers I'm not so certain McFadden has more top speed. And I think you are sleeping on Murray's acceleration. He has quite a burst. He's not just a track star.

 
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He's almost a height/weight clone of Murray physically with significantly better acceleration and long speed.
At this point in their careers I'm not so certain McFadden has more top speed. And I think you are sleeping on Murray's acceleration. He has quite a burst. He's not just a track star.
Murray is horrifically slow. I've never seen another running back in all my years who turned around to greet his tackler more than Demarcus Murphy.

 
He's almost a height/weight clone of Murray physically with significantly better acceleration and long speed.
At this point in their careers I'm not so certain McFadden has more top speed. And I think you are sleeping on Murray's acceleration. He has quite a burst. He's not just a track star.
Murray is horrifically slow. I've never seen another running back in all my years who turned around to greet his tackler more than Demarcus Murphy.
Murray has fantastic acceleration. His top end speed is what is lacking. Top end speed for a RB in the NFL is highly overrated. Murray is a perfect example of that.

 
He's almost a height/weight clone of Murray physically with significantly better acceleration and long speed.
At this point in their careers I'm not so certain McFadden has more top speed. And I think you are sleeping on Murray's acceleration. He has quite a burst. He's not just a track star.
Murray is horrifically slow. I've never seen another running back in all my years who turned around to greet his tackler more than Demarcus Murphy.
And I mis-typed in my previous post. I meant to type "he's just not a track star". Meaning he has all the other tools including great acceleration but lacks top end speed.

 
Think Dunbar could put up 40-45 catches this year?
I doubt it. If the boys pick a RB and feed him, it's going to be Randle, McFadden, or a back they trade for. I see dunbar as the 3rd back in the rotation and he'd be hard pressed to get enough snaps to accumulate 40 catches. The only chance that happens, in my opinion, is if Dallas changes their philosophy and goes with a 2 back system where Dunbar serves as the 3rd down back. I don't see that happening.

 
I definitely disagree. Murray rarely passed defenders when accelerating from a full stop. He was just very shifty laterally but he left a lot of yards on the field that a faster back would have had. Admittedly, he might have gained a lot of yards that an impatient back might have left on the field.

Either way, Murray was never moving faster than anyone he was simply anticipating faster. McFadden is without a doubt faster than Murray, even in this state of their careers.

 
I definitely disagree. Murray rarely passed defenders when accelerating from a full stop. He was just very shifty laterally but he left a lot of yards on the field that a faster back would have had. Admittedly, he might have gained a lot of yards that an impatient back might have left on the field.

Either way, Murray was never moving faster than anyone he was simply anticipating faster. McFadden is without a doubt faster than Murray, even in this state of their careers.
Fair enough. We'll just agree to disagree on this one. My eyes saw superb acceleration once he turned up field.

Keep in mind that this guy who gets caught from behind on long runs all the time ran a 4.37 at the combine in 2011. So the numbers seem to dictate that he's got above average acceleration.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/combine/_/id/27219/demarco-murray

 
mikmak8902 said:
Pumpnick said:
Think Dunbar could put up 40-45 catches this year?
I doubt it. If the boys pick a RB and feed him, it's going to be Randle, McFadden, or a back they trade for. I see dunbar as the 3rd back in the rotation and he'd be hard pressed to get enough snaps to accumulate 40 catches. The only chance that happens, in my opinion, is if Dallas changes their philosophy and goes with a 2 back system where Dunbar serves as the 3rd down back. I don't see that happening.
you're giving Williams zero chance?

 
mikmak8902 said:
Keep in mind that this guy who gets caught from behind on long runs all the time ran a 4.37 at the combine in 2011. So the numbers seem to dictate that he's got above average acceleration.
Yea that's why last year really threw me off. When I was scouting him, I definitely remember amazing explosion, acceleration and definitely long speed. They used him as a KR/PR a lot in college and some of those returns were amazing considering his size. To my surprise, none of those skills were the reason for his success last year. It was definitely his vision, durability and patience. He did have amazing lateral agility and awareness in college as well, but he absolutely does not play with 4.37 speed today IMO. For reference, Jamaal Charles ran a 4.38 and you simply don't see Murray blowing past defenders the way Charles does.

 
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mikmak8902 said:
Keep in mind that this guy who gets caught from behind on long runs all the time ran a 4.37 at the combine in 2011. So the numbers seem to dictate that he's got above average acceleration.
Yea that's why last year really threw me off. When I was scouting him, I definitely remember amazing explosion, acceleration and definitely long speed. They used him as a KR/PR a lot in college and some of those returns were amazing considering his size. To my surprise, none of those skills were the reason for his success last year. It was definitely his vision, durability and patience. He did have amazing lateral agility and awareness in college as well, but he absolutely does not play with 4.37 speed today IMO. For reference, Jamaal Charles ran a 4.38 and you simply don't see Murray blowing past defenders the way Charles does.
Murray appeared to have bulked up considerably this offseason. From his OU days he's up 10-12 pounds if you believe what you read, though it looks like more than that to me. He was never a skinny guy as he's always been ripped and absurdly proportionate. Now he's more bulky. People can carry extra weight in different ways and Murray seemed to gain straight mass that has contributed to his ability to withstand punishment at the expense of speed.

 
His words were not at all out of line. The media took them and made stupid headlines out of them. Im sure the coaches felt the same way. This is what happens when games arent being played. We become Chatty Pattys. Not a big deal. Stop looking for drama. I love his confidence.

 
His words were not at all out of line. The media took them and made stupid headlines out of them. Im sure the coaches felt the same way. This is what happens when games arent being played. We become Chatty Pattys. Not a big deal. Stop looking for drama. I love his confidence.
:thumbup: Good posting.

I'd love to see his entire quote and the entire conversation. They don't even quote his entire sentence. Just the words "meat on the bone". This wreaks of typical media BS.

 
He was complimentary of Murray. He just pointed out that in watching film he saw opportunities for more yards and hoped he could capitalize on...which we would all agree with.

Nothing to see here...

 

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