What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

***OFFICIAL*** 2015 Denver Broncos (1 Viewer)

I totally agree about the defense; I am loving seeing the Broncos with a defense this great. That pass rush is scary.

Looking at the schedule before the season, I thought vs Balt and at KC were two of the five or six toughest games, and they won both of those, so this could be another 12+ win season. Just need to run the ball better and pray that Peyton plays more like he did at the end of last night than he did last week against the Ravens.

 
It seems Kubiak realized he can't make Peyton play his Offense. Peyton is THE best OC in the league, it just so happens he is also a great QB. He needs control of the O and let Kubiak/Wade work on D schemes.

This D has the potential to be just as great as the Seattle D of the past 3 years. Maybe even better..especially if our O can put up the numbers of '12-'14 and make teams go one dimensional trying to play catch up.

I am excited to see the newly dubbed Orange Crush 2.0...

 
This weeks game vs Detroit is a real test. All signs point to this being a "get right" game for the Broncos O. The lions D has already allowed 4 rushing TD's, and allows 4.1 YPC (18th), although that includes a game vs Adrian Peterson so that may skew things a bit. Their pass D allowed 8.6 NY/A, 31st in the league.

I think Baltimore (with Suggs) and KC are a couple of the better defenses in the league. Broncos had a majority of the line making their first starts with the team in week 1, week 2 on a short week didn't allow much time to fix things. This week, Broncos do not have any excuses for coming out flat. If things don't work here offensively, they are in deep doo-doo.

 
This weeks game vs Detroit is a real test. All signs point to this being a "get right" game for the Broncos O. The lions D has already allowed 4 rushing TD's, and allows 4.1 YPC (18th), although that includes a game vs Adrian Peterson so that may skew things a bit. Their pass D allowed 8.6 NY/A, 31st in the league.

I think Baltimore (with Suggs) and KC are a couple of the better defenses in the league. Broncos had a majority of the line making their first starts with the team in week 1, week 2 on a short week didn't allow much time to fix things. This week, Broncos do not have any excuses for coming out flat. If things don't work here offensively, they are in deep doo-doo.
Totally agree. Going to the game here in DET. Very interested in seeing if our run game gets on track. Hoping to see a Peyton aerial circus against the DET D.

 
He can still do this: Nice spiral, decent zip & accurate when he has time.

I just finished reading a crap article about how Manning is floating every pass and is never accurate, and the author hand picked a few throws to illustrate his point, conveniently leaving out the throws that didn't back his point.

Is his arm weaker? Sure, it is. Is he having trouble adjusting his accuracy because of it? Absolutely. But his O-Line is not helping the situation, and at his age (with his mobility) he needs this to be fixed. I think it'll get better.

As you guys said, I'm looking forward to this game against the Lions. I want to see what Kubiak lets Peyton do, and I want to see some improvement with our Line.

I also enjoy watching our D attempt murder on QBs. We finally can get to the passer on any and every down. Now we need to fix the O. I think it'll come along.

 
some improvement with the OL - I think they are a game or two away from being good enough. Hillman broke one, which was really nice to see him able to use his speed. I really don't understand why it's taken so long for the Broncos to pitch Hillman the ball outside and let him do his thing, as opposed to running him up between the tackles. Besides him, I need to see RB's breaking arm tackles. honestly, I think Juan Thompson needs to be more involved, especially for short yardage. I think he breaks some of those tackles that took CJ down.

defensively, still pleased. Outside of one run from ADP (who is going to get his anyways), the D did VERY well. the only two TD's were the long run by ADP and a short yard drive after a Manning interception. Besides that, 7 sacks. Broncos now have 11 players with at least one sack after 4 games - to put that into perspective, 24 teams don't have 11 sacks total. Ware is playing at a DPOY level, and it's good to see Ward playing well. Harris got beat a few times, it was nice seeing Wade able to make an adjustment.

Next up is oakland, my most hated team in the league. I'm glad they are good again - makes the rivalry more entertaining.

 
I've been trying to grab Thompson lately as a possible late-season replacement. Should I be getting Bibbs instead? Anderson and Hillman aren't getting it done (with no help from the O-line or Peyton obviously).

 
We see who we are today.
I love everything about it. The 10 points the Pack scored were caused by stupid penalties, but if that's the cost of playing aggressive, I'll take it.The O - looks like they finally got their #### together. I loved all of it - the whole game felt unreal. To play like that vs the #1 scoring D...love it.

 
Loved seeing the running game working and oline giving manning time. Only real blemishes were those penalties by Garcia and Harris. How soon till Ty gets back?

 
We see who we are today.
I love everything about it. The 10 points the Pack scored were caused by stupid penalties, but if that's the cost of playing aggressive, I'll take it.The O - looks like they finally got their #### together. I loved all of it - the whole game felt unreal. To play like that vs the #1 scoring D...love it.
I know you've been with the Broncos over the long haul like I have - the ups and downs - the years when we had a good team, but floundered when we ran into a powerhouse. We knew we were good, but weren't sure how good.

This year was one of those years. The tempered excitement because we hadn't put a complete game together, yet. I knew our D was elite, but wasn't sure how much we could fix our offense during the Bye week. New offense - could we get it clicking? Could Manning start to get his timing down with the WRs? Could we get to the point where we could open up the offense a bit? How much could the Bye help our O-line continuity?

Everything got answered today. I know Green Bay is good. I know Rodgers is the best QB in the League. Now, I know we can compete, and win. We are not there, but we're getting there.

I also know nothing is promised in this league. All I want is to feel is that we can compete. That we have a shot.

We do.

I look forward to the rest of the season.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
We see who we are today.
I love everything about it. The 10 points the Pack scored were caused by stupid penalties, but if that's the cost of playing aggressive, I'll take it.The O - looks like they finally got their #### together. I loved all of it - the whole game felt unreal. To play like that vs the #1 scoring D...love it.
I know you've been with the Broncos over the long haul like I have - the ups and downs - the years when we had a good team, but floundered when we ran into a powerhouse. We knew we were good, but weren't sure how good.

This year was one of those years. The tempered excitement because we hadn't put a complete game together, yet. I knew our D was elite, but wasn't sure how much we could fix our offense during the Bye week. New offense - could we get it clicking? Could Manning start to get his timing down with the WRs? Could we get to the point where we could open up the offense a bit? How much could the Bye help our O-line continuity?

Everything got answered today. I know Green Bay is good. I know Rodgers is the best QB in the League. Now, I know we can compete, and win. We are not there, but we're getting there.

I also know nothing is promised in this league. All I want is to feel that we can compete. That we have a shot.

We do.

I look forward to the rest of the season.
It's gonna be tough tempering expectations, after seeing that.

It's very possible that we have a couple 10-0 teams playing in Mile High in a few weeks...I think maybe I should start looking for a flight to Denver.

 
This is a great D - the next big exam comes against Brady. Can this D stop the jitterbug Edelman and Gronk. The Patriots Oline will be put to the test for sure. But this D has a vulnerability to the TE in my opinion but if Brady is on his butt it won't matter.

Only Randy Gradishar is keeping me from saying this D is not as good as the Orange Crush. If we stop Brady we can talk.

 
seven games in, and this D compares favorably with the 2013 Seahawks.

link

...
That Seattle defense in 2013 allowed an average of 4.4 yards per play, and 273.6 yards per game over the regular season. This year’s Denver defense is allowing just 4.1 yards per play and 261.1 yards per game.
...
This D is on pace with the 2013 Seahawks in terms of total yards, turnovers, passing yards and QB rating. They are a little behind on interceptions, but well ahead on passing TD's allowed, rushing yards, and sacks.

 
Good lord, it feels great to be a fan of a team that wants to win. GB John Elway.

Welcome to Denver, Vernon Davis.

 
Listening to the FAN this AM - reporting that talks for Joe Thomas included a 1st and Shaq Barrett - so far no go.

That would be a tough call.

 
Listening to the FAN this AM - reporting that talks for Joe Thomas included a 1st and Shaq Barrett - so far no go.

That would be a tough call.
no way. eff them
Elway won't do it. He's been doing well at not sacrificing the future to acquire talent. I love the quote I heard him say the other day after being asked about the Vernon trade:

(paraphrasing) - "Everyone keeps saying we are trying to 'win now'. Well, yeah, but we're trying to win 'from now on'"

I ####### love that guy.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Denver has the second-least dead money on the books this year. They have the 3rd-least salary cap commitments for the 2017 season. For a "win-now" team, they're not doing very many "win-now" things, like borrowing from future seasons' cap or signing aging stars to funny-money contracts that the team can't get out from under without taking a hit. (Yes, Demarcus Ware is an aging star. After this season, Denver can cut him with just a $1.6m cap hit.)

Also, as I always mention, "win-now" teams don't waste 2nd-round picks on long-term developmental QBs.

 
Denver has the second-least dead money on the books this year. They have the 3rd-least salary cap commitments for the 2017 season. For a "win-now" team, they're not doing very many "win-now" things, like borrowing from future seasons' cap or signing aging stars to funny-money contracts that the team can't get out from under without taking a hit. (Yes, Demarcus Ware is an aging star. After this season, Denver can cut him with just a $1.6m cap hit.)

Also, as I always mention, "win-now" teams don't waste 2nd-round picks on long-term developmental QBs.
If Demarcus keeps this up - he may be earning that 10 M salary net year and we don't consider cutting him. But I imagine any deal with Shaq was turned down because he looks like an heir apparent to Demarcus

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Folks, we've got a full-fledged QB controversy.

I really, really liked how the offense looked with Brock. They were able to actually run the ball effectively, which was nice. Very reminiscent of the mid-2000's team, where they could get good yardage running outside, but struggled gaining anything inside. Brock had some struggles too - he missed a couple of blitzes, and the stumbling w/ the 4th and goal handoff to Hillman is not good. These are things that get worked out with experience and starter reps. Still, 20-27, 250 yards, 2 TD, 0 int is really great for a first start, even if it is against a struggling team (BTW, a struggling team whose coach knows our personnel inside and out).

Still, this is Peytons team, and last I heard, he will regain the reigns if healthy. Kubes has to be careful here, it's important he has his finger on the pulse of the lockerroom. I can see this going sour regardless of whom is the starter.

 
also, this is disturbing.

Broncos are drawing opposing teams holding calls at an insanely low rate. 4 holding calls against this team in 10 games (league average is 1.4 holding calls per game, so one would expect the Broncos to have ~14 calls, give or take). This is especially curious for a team that has fantastic edge rushers in Miller and Ware, a very aggressive DC in Wade Phillips, and leads the league in sacks.

By my eyeball, Von is held all the damn time, but there are really no flags, whatsover.

For comparison sake, nflpenalties.com's data goes back to 2009. The fewest holding penalties a team has on record is the Jags in 2009, with 9. The Broncos are on pace 6.4 - 40% lower than the worst team in the past 7 years. does that make sense to anyone?

 
Folks, we've got a full-fledged QB controversy.

I really, really liked how the offense looked with Brock. They were able to actually run the ball effectively, which was nice. Very reminiscent of the mid-2000's team, where they could get good yardage running outside, but struggled gaining anything inside. Brock had some struggles too - he missed a couple of blitzes, and the stumbling w/ the 4th and goal handoff to Hillman is not good. These are things that get worked out with experience and starter reps. Still, 20-27, 250 yards, 2 TD, 0 int is really great for a first start, even if it is against a struggling team (BTW, a struggling team whose coach knows our personnel inside and out).

Still, this is Peytons team, and last I heard, he will regain the reigns if healthy. Kubes has to be careful here, it's important he has his finger on the pulse of the lockerroom. I can see this going sour regardless of whom is the starter.
One thing that I came away with is that no matter who the QB is - this OLine is a hot mess. They killed drives with terrible blocking - but mainly terrible penalties. Took several 3 and 2's to 3 and 7's and 2nd and 8 to 2nd and 18. Just horrendous and they could never keep a rhythm . I didn't see the downfield throws from Brock yet. He was getting eaten alive by an average Defense. Against a good one he needs to read and move the line coverage better. Of course we couldn't really tell - there are were so many 'ole blocks up front. Mathias got destroyed a couple of times.

The interesting thing was the post game speech by Kubiak on how the team came together on Saturday and played good football with no turnovers. All while Peyton was gone.

 
also, this is disturbing.

Broncos are drawing opposing teams holding calls at an insanely low rate. 4 holding calls against this team in 10 games (league average is 1.4 holding calls per game, so one would expect the Broncos to have ~14 calls, give or take). This is especially curious for a team that has fantastic edge rushers in Miller and Ware, a very aggressive DC in Wade Phillips, and leads the league in sacks.

By my eyeball, Von is held all the damn time, but there are really no flags, whatsover.

For comparison sake, nflpenalties.com's data goes back to 2009. The fewest holding penalties a team has on record is the Jags in 2009, with 9. The Broncos are on pace 6.4 - 40% lower than the worst team in the past 7 years. does that make sense to anyone?
If I remember correctly, the Bears had NO penalties called against them the entire game. Are you f***ing kidding me? I saw many holding plays, but even if I take the team-colored glasses off ... NO penalties the entire game? It was a crock, and I'd say that if it was any game I watched, not just the Broncos.

 
Folks, we've got a full-fledged QB controversy.

I really, really liked how the offense looked with Brock. They were able to actually run the ball effectively, which was nice. Very reminiscent of the mid-2000's team, where they could get good yardage running outside, but struggled gaining anything inside. Brock had some struggles too - he missed a couple of blitzes, and the stumbling w/ the 4th and goal handoff to Hillman is not good. These are things that get worked out with experience and starter reps. Still, 20-27, 250 yards, 2 TD, 0 int is really great for a first start, even if it is against a struggling team (BTW, a struggling team whose coach knows our personnel inside and out).

Still, this is Peytons team, and last I heard, he will regain the reigns if healthy. Kubes has to be careful here, it's important he has his finger on the pulse of the lockerroom. I can see this going sour regardless of whom is the starter.
I know there is (or will be) a controversy, but in my mind there isn't. Brock's the guy. I'm usually the guy backing up the veteran player, citing experience and leadership, but in this case - no way. Peyton is broken down. He's not going to get better. We saw what he can do against Green Bay with two weeks off... but that's not happening anymore this year (unless it was a playoff bye).

This was the first game this year we haven't had an interception. Peyton leads the league in them. I hate overreaction, but I don't think this is one. Peyton's done, at least for this year. He's not healthy and his understanding of the game can't make up for his body falling apart.

I hope Kubiak does the right thing. Maybe I'm wrong, and Peyton comes back and is better. If so, then that's the correct move. Whatever it is, I hope it's made. I don't want to waste this defense.

 
Folks, we've got a full-fledged QB controversy.

I really, really liked how the offense looked with Brock. They were able to actually run the ball effectively, which was nice. Very reminiscent of the mid-2000's team, where they could get good yardage running outside, but struggled gaining anything inside. Brock had some struggles too - he missed a couple of blitzes, and the stumbling w/ the 4th and goal handoff to Hillman is not good. These are things that get worked out with experience and starter reps. Still, 20-27, 250 yards, 2 TD, 0 int is really great for a first start, even if it is against a struggling team (BTW, a struggling team whose coach knows our personnel inside and out).

Still, this is Peytons team, and last I heard, he will regain the reigns if healthy. Kubes has to be careful here, it's important he has his finger on the pulse of the lockerroom. I can see this going sour regardless of whom is the starter.
I know there is (or will be) a controversy, but in my mind there isn't. Brock's the guy. I'm usually the guy backing up the veteran player, citing experience and leadership, but in this case - no way. Peyton is broken down. He's not going to get better. We saw what he can do against Green Bay with two weeks off... but that's not happening anymore this year (unless it was a playoff bye).

This was the first game this year we haven't had an interception. Peyton leads the league in them. I hate overreaction, but I don't think this is one. Peyton's done, at least for this year. He's not healthy and his understanding of the game can't make up for his body falling apart.

I hope Kubiak does the right thing. Maybe I'm wrong, and Peyton comes back and is better. If so, then that's the correct move. Whatever it is, I hope it's made. I don't want to waste this defense.
I think right now, I want Peyton to play the role of Bob Griese did for the '72 dolphins - Griese broke his ankle in week 5, Morrall came in and took the 'Phins to the SB, Where Griese started (but was on a short leash).

Or, maybe Bledsloe with the 2001 Patriots, where he rode the bench but played a key role in the AFCCG.

Manning can, and should, have a role with this team. given what we've seen over the past 18 games (counting playoff game), I'm not sure that role should be starting QB.

 
Folks, we've got a full-fledged QB controversy.

I really, really liked how the offense looked with Brock. They were able to actually run the ball effectively, which was nice. Very reminiscent of the mid-2000's team, where they could get good yardage running outside, but struggled gaining anything inside. Brock had some struggles too - he missed a couple of blitzes, and the stumbling w/ the 4th and goal handoff to Hillman is not good. These are things that get worked out with experience and starter reps. Still, 20-27, 250 yards, 2 TD, 0 int is really great for a first start, even if it is against a struggling team (BTW, a struggling team whose coach knows our personnel inside and out).

Still, this is Peytons team, and last I heard, he will regain the reigns if healthy. Kubes has to be careful here, it's important he has his finger on the pulse of the lockerroom. I can see this going sour regardless of whom is the starter.
I know there is (or will be) a controversy, but in my mind there isn't. Brock's the guy. I'm usually the guy backing up the veteran player, citing experience and leadership, but in this case - no way. Peyton is broken down. He's not going to get better. We saw what he can do against Green Bay with two weeks off... but that's not happening anymore this year (unless it was a playoff bye).

This was the first game this year we haven't had an interception. Peyton leads the league in them. I hate overreaction, but I don't think this is one. Peyton's done, at least for this year. He's not healthy and his understanding of the game can't make up for his body falling apart.

I hope Kubiak does the right thing. Maybe I'm wrong, and Peyton comes back and is better. If so, then that's the correct move. Whatever it is, I hope it's made. I don't want to waste this defense.
I think right now, I want Peyton to play the role of Bob Griese did for the '72 dolphins - Griese broke his ankle in week 5, Morrall came in and took the 'Phins to the SB, Where Griese started (but was on a short leash).

Or, maybe Bledsloe with the 2001 Patriots, where he rode the bench but played a key role in the AFCCG.

Manning can, and should, have a role with this team. given what we've seen over the past 18 games (counting playoff game), I'm not sure that role should be starting QB.
I still can't figure out if Peyton not even talking to Brock after it was revealed that he wouldn't be starting is a good or bad thing. It kind of bugged me when Brock said it, but then again, I don't know the dynamics of the relationship. I can't shake it, though. Not even a "good luck" or a quick chat or anything.

It's probably nothing, but for whatever reason, it irked me a bit.

 
Folks, we've got a full-fledged QB controversy.

I really, really liked how the offense looked with Brock. They were able to actually run the ball effectively, which was nice. Very reminiscent of the mid-2000's team, where they could get good yardage running outside, but struggled gaining anything inside. Brock had some struggles too - he missed a couple of blitzes, and the stumbling w/ the 4th and goal handoff to Hillman is not good. These are things that get worked out with experience and starter reps. Still, 20-27, 250 yards, 2 TD, 0 int is really great for a first start, even if it is against a struggling team (BTW, a struggling team whose coach knows our personnel inside and out).

Still, this is Peytons team, and last I heard, he will regain the reigns if healthy. Kubes has to be careful here, it's important he has his finger on the pulse of the lockerroom. I can see this going sour regardless of whom is the starter.
I know there is (or will be) a controversy, but in my mind there isn't. Brock's the guy. I'm usually the guy backing up the veteran player, citing experience and leadership, but in this case - no way. Peyton is broken down. He's not going to get better. We saw what he can do against Green Bay with two weeks off... but that's not happening anymore this year (unless it was a playoff bye).

This was the first game this year we haven't had an interception. Peyton leads the league in them. I hate overreaction, but I don't think this is one. Peyton's done, at least for this year. He's not healthy and his understanding of the game can't make up for his body falling apart.

I hope Kubiak does the right thing. Maybe I'm wrong, and Peyton comes back and is better. If so, then that's the correct move. Whatever it is, I hope it's made. I don't want to waste this defense.
I think right now, I want Peyton to play the role of Bob Griese did for the '72 dolphins - Griese broke his ankle in week 5, Morrall came in and took the 'Phins to the SB, Where Griese started (but was on a short leash).Or, maybe Bledsloe with the 2001 Patriots, where he rode the bench but played a key role in the AFCCG.

Manning can, and should, have a role with this team. given what we've seen over the past 18 games (counting playoff game), I'm not sure that role should be starting QB.
I still can't figure out if Peyton not even talking to Brock after it was revealed that he wouldn't be starting is a good or bad thing. It kind of bugged me when Brock said it, but then again, I don't know the dynamics of the relationship. I can't shake it, though. Not even a "good luck" or a quick chat or anything.

It's probably nothing, but for whatever reason, it irked me a bit.
who knows. I'm not in that lockerroom, no idea what the dynamics are like. BTW, Brock starting this week should be a fore-gone conclusion - Manning is in Charlotte today visiting a top foot doctor.

If it's that bad that he needs to fly half-way across the country after a weeks of rest, I'd speculate that surgery isn't out of the question. As we are already in week 11, that could be the end of his season.

ETA: looks like surgery isn't usually an option for Plantar Fascia, but prolonged (i.e. months) is. season (career?) ending IR is on the table, IMO.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm sipping my coffee this morning, content.

When you take away all the rhetoric of "My team is more injured than yours!" (it's actually quite close for both) or the Brock-is-better-than-Manning line (is that supposed to be a knock on us that our team is deep?) and you just take the game for what it is (I just watched it again) - we should be pleased. Brock played against one of the most difficult defenses, scheme-wise, and he played well. It looked like he knew where to go with the ball, which, regardless of who's on the field, is the most important thing against a Belichick defense. The Pats are famous for roughing up young QBs, and Brock did well. Regardless of what Pats' fans say, the only game changing injury (other than Gronk, but that was very, very late game, and DT not being "there" cancelled out Edelman) was Collins, their LB. I own him and have watched every snap he's had. He would have made their defense better, big time. He's scary.

DT looked sick or injured or high. He was god awful. If he comes to play, and Sanders is even more healthy, our offense will get better with Brock getting timing down with everyone. We still haven't tapped the potential of Vernon, either. He's not what he once was, but I think he gets better for us as time goes on. The TE position is notoriously difficult to learn, and even though he's a vet, Davis is still probably a long way from knowing the full Kubiak system, which is very involved for the TEs.

Like I said in a post earlier, we can compete and win against any team in the League. I don't think we are better than the Pats right now on a neutral field, but it's close. As (if) we get better, that will change.

What did you guys see last night, and your thoughts going forward?

 
I'm sipping my coffee this morning, content.

When you take away all the rhetoric of "My team is more injured than yours!" (it's actually quite close for both) or the Brock-is-better-than-Manning line (is that supposed to be a knock on us that our team is deep?) and you just take the game for what it is (I just watched it again) - we should be pleased. Brock played against one of the most difficult defenses, scheme-wise, and he played well. It looked like he knew where to go with the ball, which, regardless of who's on the field, is the most important thing against a Belichick defense. The Pats are famous for roughing up young QBs, and Brock did well. Regardless of what Pats' fans say, the only game changing injury (other than Gronk, but that was very, very late game, and DT not being "there" cancelled out Edelman) was Collins, their LB. I own him and have watched every snap he's had. He would have made their defense better, big time. He's scary.

DT looked sick or injured or high. He was god awful. If he comes to play, and Sanders is even more healthy, our offense will get better with Brock getting timing down with everyone. We still haven't tapped the potential of Vernon, either. He's not what he once was, but I think he gets better for us as time goes on. The TE position is notoriously difficult to learn, and even though he's a vet, Davis is still probably a long way from knowing the full Kubiak system, which is very involved for the TEs.

Like I said in a post earlier, we can compete and win against any team in the League. I don't think we are better than the Pats right now on a neutral field, but it's close. As (if) we get better, that will change.

What did you guys see last night, and your thoughts going forward?
Agree with all of the above. I think a healthy Patriot team is clearly better than healthy Broncos are right now. That being said, I agree that the Broncos will improve:

  • The O-line still has a lot of work to do, but is looking at least competent in the run game. I'm sure that having a QB under center helps out a lot here.
  • Vernon Davis should just now start to be fully integrated - knowing the play book, establishing timing with Brock, digesting the ZBS scheme and all that Kubes asks for a TE to do.
  • I don't think Brock has hit his stride yet. He now has two career starts - he has VERY limited experience seeing real blitzes, understanding coverages, etc. There will be growing pains as teams get some film on him, but he will be more comfortable as time goes on. Further, I think a lot of the mis-cues with DT had to do with simple familiarity. Brock read one thing, DT read another...or, the timing simply wasn't there (i.e. he didn't lead him enough). That all comes with starter reps in practice and game experience.
  • CJ Anderson - I don't know where he has been, but he looked like the CJ of last year again (finally).
Say what you will about the Patriots missing skill position players, but our O just hung 30 on them with a QB in his second start and a stud WR who couldn't catch. There's no way you can't be encouraged by that.

Defensively, the personal fouls have to stop. this team has got to be more disciplined than that.

I know that the national narrative is that the Broncos were lucky to beat the Patriots. IMO, had things broken just a little differently, we would have blown them out.

side note: The Broncos have now faced the #1 scoring D twice this season. They hung 29 on the Packers and 30 on the Patriots. The current #1 scoring D is Cincy - I'm looking forward to 12/28.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
also, this is disturbing.

Broncos are drawing opposing teams holding calls at an insanely low rate. 4 holding calls against this team in 10 games (league average is 1.4 holding calls per game, so one would expect the Broncos to have ~14 calls, give or take). This is especially curious for a team that has fantastic edge rushers in Miller and Ware, a very aggressive DC in Wade Phillips, and leads the league in sacks.

By my eyeball, Von is held all the damn time, but there are really no flags, whatsover.

For comparison sake, nflpenalties.com's data goes back to 2009. The fewest holding penalties a team has on record is the Jags in 2009, with 9. The Broncos are on pace 6.4 - 40% lower than the worst team in the past 7 years. does that make sense to anyone?
If I remember correctly, the Bears had NO penalties called against them the entire game. Are you f***ing kidding me? I saw many holding plays, but even if I take the team-colored glasses off ... NO penalties the entire game? It was a crock, and I'd say that if it was any game I watched, not just the Broncos.
For what it's worth, Denver actually broke the record for most penalty yards by a team whose opponent wasn't penalized. It was just the second game in history where one team lost over 100 yards to penalties while the other team was not penalized once.

 
Say what you will about the Patriots missing skill position players, but our O just hung 30 on them with a QB in his second start and a stud WR who couldn't catch. There's no way you can't be encouraged by that.
I'd say the 30 points is very misleading. Really, it was 24 points on 14 drives in regulation on a night where the ball was fumbled three times and Denver recovered all three. It wasn't a *bad* offensive game, especially considering the quality of the defense, but it wasn't a great one, either. Pretty middle-of-the-road, all things considered. Despite the final score, I think the defense outperformed the offense again.

Which is fine. It's not 2013. "Middle-of-the-road" is acceptable on offense. The defense is going to outperform the offense a lot this year.

 
Say what you will about the Patriots missing skill position players, but our O just hung 30 on them with a QB in his second start and a stud WR who couldn't catch. There's no way you can't be encouraged by that.
I'd say the 30 points is very misleading. Really, it was 24 points on 14 drives in regulation on a night where the ball was fumbled three times and Denver recovered all three. It wasn't a *bad* offensive game, especially considering the quality of the defense, but it wasn't a great one, either. Pretty middle-of-the-road, all things considered. Despite the final score, I think the defense outperformed the offense again.

Which is fine. It's not 2013. "Middle-of-the-road" is acceptable on offense. The defense is going to outperform the offense a lot this year.
I'm kind of with mole on this one, Adam. Our fumbles were obviously bad, but they were recovered by us which can be chalked up to awareness of our players (and a bit of luck, too), but on average the Pats fumble twice as much per game as we do, so that's kind of an anomaly in itself. I wasn't really comfortable with praising our 30 when 6 of it came in OT, but after watching it again, it wasn't like we labored through tons of extra time to get it. We scored immediately after holding the Pats the previous drive.

I know you want to temper expectations, and believe me - I'm tempered. You're right that our D is carrying us for the most part. I just think that our 30 was a solid 30. Nothing to brag too much about, but we didn't luck into it either.

I don't know - I kind of agree with both of you. I'm tired and rambling. I'm just happy we are playing better.

 
Hoss Style said:
Adam Harstad said:
Say what you will about the Patriots missing skill position players, but our O just hung 30 on them with a QB in his second start and a stud WR who couldn't catch. There's no way you can't be encouraged by that.
I'd say the 30 points is very misleading. Really, it was 24 points on 14 drives in regulation on a night where the ball was fumbled three times and Denver recovered all three. It wasn't a *bad* offensive game, especially considering the quality of the defense, but it wasn't a great one, either. Pretty middle-of-the-road, all things considered. Despite the final score, I think the defense outperformed the offense again.

Which is fine. It's not 2013. "Middle-of-the-road" is acceptable on offense. The defense is going to outperform the offense a lot this year.
I'm kind of with mole on this one, Adam. Our fumbles were obviously bad, but they were recovered by us which can be chalked up to awareness of our players (and a bit of luck, too), but on average the Pats fumble twice as much per game as we do, so that's kind of an anomaly in itself. I wasn't really comfortable with praising our 30 when 6 of it came in OT, but after watching it again, it wasn't like we labored through tons of extra time to get it. We scored immediately after holding the Pats the previous drive.

I know you want to temper expectations, and believe me - I'm tempered. You're right that our D is carrying us for the most part. I just think that our 30 was a solid 30. Nothing to brag too much about, but we didn't luck into it either.

I don't know - I kind of agree with both of you. I'm tired and rambling. I'm just happy we are playing better.
The tempering isn't that Denver was lucky, (although going 3-for-3 on fumble recoveries is definitely a lucky break; the rate at which teams fumble is skill, but the rate at which they recover fumbles is chance, so recovering all three means we overperformed slightly). The key thing to realize is that Denver had a *LOT* of offensive drives. Fifteen total, counting the one in overtime. 24 points on 14 drives in regulation works out to 1.71 points per drive, which would rank Denver 25th in the NFL. (For the season, Denver averages 1.68 points per drive, which ranks 26th.) If you count the overtime drive-- and you should! There's no reason to suspect the numbers would be improved by privileging or disprivileging overtime statistics in rate stats-- Denver's 31 points in 15 drives, (because they could have hit the XP if necessary), would result in a 2.07 average. Over a full season, averaging 2.07 points per drive would rank Denver 9th.

So Denver's offensive performance would rank somewhere between 9th and 25th in the league over the full season. In a game where they were at home and had favorable officiating, against a defense missing its best player. With the benefit of a 48-yard breakaway touchdown run on 3rd-and-long, (which counts, but isn't as sustainable of an indicator going forward as an extended touchdown drive). Denver had more 3-and-outs, (6, counting the drive where Osweiler was intercepted on the third play), than offensive scores, (5).

It wasn't a bad game. It was a solid game. A decent game. Perhaps even a borderline good offensive game. Certainly not a great one. Which is fine; with Denver's defense, "borderline good" is more than enough.

That defense, by the way, held the mighty Patriots offense to 24 points in 15 drives, a 1.60 point per drive average that would leave them among the bottom 5 offenses over the course of the season. The pace of the game obscures how great that unit was at the same time that it makes Denver's offense look better than it was. Overall, I'd call it a great defensive performance, a decent offensive performance, and overall a close victory.

With tiebreakers potentially at stake, I'll gladly take it.

 
I still want to know what in the hell Wade Philips had the defense doing on that first drive. Yeah, they have no WRs, so let's single cover Gronk and give those WRs 10-yard cushions...asinine. I thought they were very fortunate to win, considering you usually don't beat the Patriots by just handing them 7 points by playing defense that gutless.

 
Hoss Style said:
Adam Harstad said:
Say what you will about the Patriots missing skill position players, but our O just hung 30 on them with a QB in his second start and a stud WR who couldn't catch. There's no way you can't be encouraged by that.
I'd say the 30 points is very misleading. Really, it was 24 points on 14 drives in regulation on a night where the ball was fumbled three times and Denver recovered all three. It wasn't a *bad* offensive game, especially considering the quality of the defense, but it wasn't a great one, either. Pretty middle-of-the-road, all things considered. Despite the final score, I think the defense outperformed the offense again.

Which is fine. It's not 2013. "Middle-of-the-road" is acceptable on offense. The defense is going to outperform the offense a lot this year.
I'm kind of with mole on this one, Adam. Our fumbles were obviously bad, but they were recovered by us which can be chalked up to awareness of our players (and a bit of luck, too), but on average the Pats fumble twice as much per game as we do, so that's kind of an anomaly in itself. I wasn't really comfortable with praising our 30 when 6 of it came in OT, but after watching it again, it wasn't like we labored through tons of extra time to get it. We scored immediately after holding the Pats the previous drive.

I know you want to temper expectations, and believe me - I'm tempered. You're right that our D is carrying us for the most part. I just think that our 30 was a solid 30. Nothing to brag too much about, but we didn't luck into it either.

I don't know - I kind of agree with both of you. I'm tired and rambling. I'm just happy we are playing better.
The tempering isn't that Denver was lucky, (although going 3-for-3 on fumble recoveries is definitely a lucky break; the rate at which teams fumble is skill, but the rate at which they recover fumbles is chance, so recovering all three means we overperformed slightly). The key thing to realize is that Denver had a *LOT* of offensive drives. Fifteen total, counting the one in overtime. 24 points on 14 drives in regulation works out to 1.71 points per drive, which would rank Denver 25th in the NFL. (For the season, Denver averages 1.68 points per drive, which ranks 26th.) If you count the overtime drive-- and you should! There's no reason to suspect the numbers would be improved by privileging or disprivileging overtime statistics in rate stats-- Denver's 31 points in 15 drives, (because they could have hit the XP if necessary), would result in a 2.07 average. Over a full season, averaging 2.07 points per drive would rank Denver 9th.

So Denver's offensive performance would rank somewhere between 9th and 25th in the league over the full season. In a game where they were at home and had favorable officiating, against a defense missing its best player. With the benefit of a 48-yard breakaway touchdown run on 3rd-and-long, (which counts, but isn't as sustainable of an indicator going forward as an extended touchdown drive). Denver had more 3-and-outs, (6, counting the drive where Osweiler was intercepted on the third play), than offensive scores, (5).

It wasn't a bad game. It was a solid game. A decent game. Perhaps even a borderline good offensive game. Certainly not a great one. Which is fine; with Denver's defense, "borderline good" is more than enough.

That defense, by the way, held the mighty Patriots offense to 24 points in 15 drives, a 1.60 point per drive average that would leave them among the bottom 5 offenses over the course of the season. The pace of the game obscures how great that unit was at the same time that it makes Denver's offense look better than it was. Overall, I'd call it a great defensive performance, a decent offensive performance, and overall a close victory.

With tiebreakers potentially at stake, I'll gladly take it.
This is all very good and all. Really, this is like discussing different shades of white - its all slight interpretations of the same thing.

I am concerned about the three and outs too. What had me encouraged is that (1) the Pats are a very good D and very well coached, even without their best 2 LB's. Having an NFL average performance vs this team is a good thing, especially coming from an overall poor offense. (2) I know you don't necessarily believe in clutch, but IMO Brock hit some really clutch throws in Q4. He showed that he's not going to be scared under the lights. It's tough to come up with a higher pressure spot for a young QB: down 14, vs Tom Brady and an undefeated SB champ, national TV, first home start, playoff implications on the line...all that, and the kid came up aces.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top