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**Official** 2015 Washington Redskins Thread YOU LIKE THAT! (2 Viewers)

I'd have no problem keeping DJax and moving on from Garcon. Garcon is a tough competitor and fights hard out there, but his WR skills are a dime a dozen. I'm on the fence about DJax, but when he is out there, teams have to respect the deep ball.

 
It wasn't just radio announcers who went overboard in their assessment of the Skins after the Saints game.

"Multiple players admitted that following their blowout victory over the Saints, they became complacent. They thought they were better than they were, and so, they went down to Charlotte and wet the bed."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/12/02/five-questions-facing-the-redskins-as-they-prepare-for-the-cowboys/
This is even more inexplicable than Harris saying the NYG overlooked the Redskins. How can a team that got rmanhandled by the Giants, Jets and Pats and also lost to the Dolphins and Falcons -- a team without a winning record mind you -- how can that team be complacent facing an UNDEFEATED CAROLINA team?

I'm actually fairly speechless that they would feel this way.
Yeah that's really, really stupid. So we blow out a fading Saints team and suddenly think we can go on the road and beat an undefeated Carolina team because we beat the Saints? Wow.
It just shows what a disaster of a team they had become the last several years. Then they get to this year, they're playing a bit better, they're getting some wins, and after a win by a lot of points they think they're hot ####.

If they keep improving as a team like they seem to be doing this year, they'll learn that no one week means more than another and they'll carry themselves that way, practice that way, and play that way.

But they've been a sucky team for awhile and just get (or got, hopefully) overly elated by one victory. They're just learning in some ways how to be a professional team.

 
With two holding penalties and an offensive pass interference call on Sunday, Reed saw his tally for the season increase to 10 – which is tied for first on the team with right tackle Morgan Moses.

Reed has now been called for holding six times this season, and offensive pass interference three times. He also has a penalty for illegal touching. Reed’s penalties have nullified 93 yards, which leads the team by a large margin. (Left tackle Trent Williams’s 32 nullified yards rank second).
Reed leads the Redskins with 55 catches for 541 yards and six touchdowns. His 220 yards after the catch also rank first on the team, and his 31 first down receptions are tied with Pierre Garcon for first.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/11/30/jay-gruden-jordan-reed-must-work-on-blocking-technique-to-cut-down-on-penalties/
Basically, you could come up with a new side betting game while watching Redskins football.

What will happen first?

1. Reed holding

2. Jones fumble

3. Cousins interception

Place your bets now!
4. INT by a Redskins player you barely know

5. Reed catch and run for a conversion on 3rd down

They're a real grab bag this year. We never know what to expect. They could control Dallas on Monday and be .500 and in first place, or give up 192 yards rushing in a loss and be reduced to talking mathematical possibilities and who'll be here next year.

 
And to think we were all so worried about TE coming into the season. I know Reed missed 2 games, but he's been one of, if not our best, offensive players this year.
Reed is basically our lead option from a receiving standpoint.I read and interesting article talking about what decisions the Redskins have to make regarding re-signing Wide Receivers. A lot of us talk about whether to re-sign DJAX but whether to re-sign Garcon at his current salary (is it like 11 M / year) is a serious question if we are not going to throw to him like a WR that catches 80-100 balls per year.

The article made the point that Garcon is only targeted like 6 times per game and if that's the case, then you can get someone else do to that for far cheaper than 11 M per year. It's kind of like with New ENgland, Gronkowski is actually much, much more important than their # 1 receiver. You get the sense that that is currently the case in Washington as welll

Meanwhile, DJax is also not targetted that much and also is pricely (9.5 M / year?) ...BUT DJax brings a dynamic to the offense that is totally different, taking the top of the defense and changing the entire complexion of the passing game. I haven't looked at the stats in detail, but pretty sure before DJax came back, Cousins had one of the lowest Yards per Completion numbers and since DJAX return it's gotten much, much better.

While a lot of eyes are on the QB signing in offseason, I actually think that's going to be fairly routine (I think they will drop Griffin and sign Cousins, unless we see Cousins revert to Rex Mode). Meanwhile, WR is going to be very interesting situation this offseason.
DJax cap hit doesn't change next year or in 17'. I'd think he is a must keep. His cap hit went up substantially this year.Garçon doesn't go up much, but he cost over $10M, a M more than DJax. Can't imagin he's worth keeping at that price.

Put another way. Garçon is the 15th highest paid WR while DJax is tied for the 23rd. Who'd you rather keep? Seems easy to me.
It will be really interesting to see what they do. Obviously, with the team headed in the right direction, it would be awesome to keep everyone. However, you've got other guys on offense, such as Cousins and Morris, that will likely take more money next year, so something has to give somewhere.

It may come down to "who is easier to replace." Solid possession / tough cookie competitor in Garcon or speedy guy who can torch the opposition in Jackson...
Looking at Seattle's roster and to a lesser degree, SF, McCloughan in the past has not spent much on WRs. He did invest a first round pick in MIchael Crabtree and I think SF drafter another WR high that did not pan out. I doubt having 3 high priced WR is in McCloughan's long term plans.

I wrote at the beginning of the season that I could see the Redskins cutting ties with Garcon, Jackson, and Roberts next year. It would leave them quite thin at WR, but it would give a lot of opportunity to Crowder, Grant, Ross, and anyone else they bring in.

I also read that the front office is not happy with Jackson's durability and availability. Cooley said he thought Jackson's offseason training has contributed to his injuries. If Cooley thinks that, there are probably others in the Redskin's organization who think that too. But Jackson does have very unique skill set.

My guess: Roberts will be cut. Garcon is about 50-50, Jackson has about 60% chance of staying. But most likely, one of Jackson or Garcon will be gone next year.

 
My guess: Roberts will be cut. Garcon is about 50-50, Jackson has about 60% chance of staying. But most likely, one of Jackson or Garcon will be gone next year.
I'm sure Roberts will be gone also. With Garcon and Jackson, I don't know. To me it depends on how they think about WR spending (if they even think of it that way) and to a large extent on how they think the Redskins running game will be. I think the running game will be the core of the offensive planning --- not that they need to run more than they pass in every future game, but that they need to be able to run when they want to run --- and that the lack of a consistent running game has been at the root of their offensive troubles this year. Cousins has shown he can unload the ball and avoid the rush well enough, so pass blocking isn't as much of a concern. But the ability or inability to run has dictated how almost all their games have gone.

If the FO sees the deep threat of Jackson is seen as critical to open things up for the run, or if the FO thinks they'll have trouble running for the next cuple years and Garcon is more critical in a close-to-the-LOS game, I don't know.

I discount everything Cooley says about front office thinking. If Mike Jones or John Keim says it I pay attention. Cooley was dead sure he was getting a Redskin tryout earlier this year, and it's become painfully obvious he has no communication with Scotch at all. And Scotch makes the FO decisions.

I'd hate to see either leave. If they have to make a choice (I'm not convince they do) and they decide their guys on the O-line are improving and try to beef it up even more I'd say they'll let Jackson go. Garcon is one tough SOB and a hell of a blocker. If they think the O-line will struggle run blocking in the future I'd guess they'd let Garcon go and depend on Jackson to get defenses to back away from the LOS.

Interesting decision, since Garcon and Jackson bring such different things to the offense. A good bit depends on what they feel they need to spend on other parts of the team. There's not one set pattern for the correct way to spend, or one consistent set of player values shared among all teams.

 
I'll also say I don't think Ryan Grant is or will be a viable NFL starter. He runs great routes, makes great breaks, but he's seldom open by more than half a step because he's not quick enough. That's OK in a TE; not in a WR. Grant's a good backup to have.

 
DJax is perhaps the most dangerous deep threat in the NFL. He'd be much harder to replace. I don't think it's close, at all.

The issue of course is he gets injured a lot. I'm not sure if that plays into the brass decision much or not. DJax has proven to be an excellent WR and 1 of the few field tilters but not extremely reliable as he's not able to stay on the field as often as you'd like.

Personally, I feel DJax for WR23 money is a decent value. Garçon isn't worth WR32 money IMO.

Food for thought, Wash has the 2nd highest amount of payroll going to WR. Only team higher is Det. Of course Det has Calvin, the highest paid in the NFL, skewing things. So yeah, this WR thing is essentially the elephant in the room.
Link?

I'm looking at Overthecap.com and that doesn't seem right. The top duo for Atlanta, Denver, Detroit, Green Bay, Indy are all making more this year. Is that guaranteed or total money you are referring to?

http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver

 
I'll also say I don't think Ryan Grant is or will be a viable NFL starter. He runs great routes, makes great breaks, but he's seldom open by more than half a step because he's not quick enough. That's OK in a TE; not in a WR. Grant's a good backup to have.
I think earlier in the year Roberts was a healthy inactive, but he is active every week now and getting more playing time. It looks like they were giving other WRs like Grant a chance to play and they did not excel. I also think Grant is not a starting WR.

 
DJax is perhaps the most dangerous deep threat in the NFL. He'd be much harder to replace. I don't think it's close, at all.

The issue of course is he gets injured a lot. I'm not sure if that plays into the brass decision much or not. DJax has proven to be an excellent WR and 1 of the few field tilters but not extremely reliable as he's not able to stay on the field as often as you'd like.

Personally, I feel DJax for WR23 money is a decent value. Garçon isn't worth WR32 money IMO.

Food for thought, Wash has the 2nd highest amount of payroll going to WR. Only team higher is Det. Of course Det has Calvin, the highest paid in the NFL, skewing things. So yeah, this WR thing is essentially the elephant in the room.
Link?

I'm looking at Overthecap.com and that doesn't seem right. The top duo for Atlanta, Denver, Detroit, Green Bay, Indy are all making more this year. Is that guaranteed or total money you are referring to?

http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver
Here's the link. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/wide-receiver/

They are referring to cap hit.

 
jurb26 said:
BobbyLayne said:
DJax is perhaps the most dangerous deep threat in the NFL. He'd be much harder to replace. I don't think it's close, at all.

The issue of course is he gets injured a lot. I'm not sure if that plays into the brass decision much or not. DJax has proven to be an excellent WR and 1 of the few field tilters but not extremely reliable as he's not able to stay on the field as often as you'd like.

Personally, I feel DJax for WR23 money is a decent value. Garçon isn't worth WR32 money IMO.

Food for thought, Wash has the 2nd highest amount of payroll going to WR. Only team higher is Det. Of course Det has Calvin, the highest paid in the NFL, skewing things. So yeah, this WR thing is essentially the elephant in the room.
Link?

I'm looking at Overthecap.com and that doesn't seem right. The top duo for Atlanta, Denver, Detroit, Green Bay, Indy are all making more this year. Is that guaranteed or total money you are referring to?

http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver
Here's the link.http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/wide-receiver/

They are referring to cap hit.
On that list the Redskins are paying 8 WR's. One other team is paying 8 WR's, 3 are paying 7 WR's, and all other teams are paying 5 or 6.

 
Remember when Carlos Rogers was in Washington? And he was our best cover corner for awhile but people hated him because he dropped so many INT's? Then he went to San Francisco, had an eye procedure done to fix his vision, was vastly improved and made the Pro Bowl?

Did Perry Riley just have that eye procedure done?

I mean, what's gotten into him? He's been a terrible liability in pass coverage all year and suddenly he has 2 INT's.

 
Remember when Carlos Rogers was in Washington? And he was our best cover corner for awhile but people hated him because he dropped so many INT's? Then he went to San Francisco, had an eye procedure done to fix his vision, was vastly improved and made the Pro Bowl?

Did Perry Riley just have that eye procedure done?

I mean, what's gotten into him? He's been a terrible liability in pass coverage all year and suddenly he has 2 INT's.
Speculation on the radio was that he was hampered by an injury and/or he is more comfortable playing alongside Will Compton than Keenan Robinson.

 
One note on Keenan Robinson. There has been a lot of speculation about his injury. It apparently is a vague or difficult to diagnose issue. But it came out yesterday that he has lost a lot of strength in his shoulder and he is trying to build it back up. So the injury is still a bit mysterious, but the impact is very real.

 
One note on Keenan Robinson. There has been a lot of speculation about his injury. It apparently is a vague or difficult to diagnose issue. But it came out yesterday that he has lost a lot of strength in his shoulder and he is trying to build it back up. So the injury is still a bit mysterious, but the impact is very real.
Cooley on Monday was calling him out for being soft and said he needs to get back out there. Doubt Cooley will apologize for talking out of his ###.

 
Marvelous said:
One note on Keenan Robinson. There has been a lot of speculation about his injury. It apparently is a vague or difficult to diagnose issue. But it came out yesterday that he has lost a lot of strength in his shoulder and he is trying to build it back up. So the injury is still a bit mysterious, but the impact is very real.
I read the same thing 2 days ago. I suppose in his case being "healthy enough to play" won't necessarily mean he's strong enough to play yet. And yeah, Cooley did call him out. Like a jackass.

 
Marvelous said:
Remember when Carlos Rogers was in Washington? And he was our best cover corner for awhile but people hated him because he dropped so many INT's? Then he went to San Francisco, had an eye procedure done to fix his vision, was vastly improved and made the Pro Bowl?

Did Perry Riley just have that eye procedure done?

I mean, what's gotten into him? He's been a terrible liability in pass coverage all year and suddenly he has 2 INT's.
Speculation on the radio was that he was hampered by an injury and/or he is more comfortable playing alongside Will Compton than Keenan Robinson.
I read or heard something within the last 2 weeks about the defensive coaching staff either changing his responsibilities or changing the defense, and that being beneficial for him. Wish I could remember where.

Oh well, it doesn't matter any more. Riley is now out 3 to 6 weeks with an injury.

They have 2 healthy ILB's on their roster at the moment.

 
Marvelous said:
One note on Keenan Robinson. There has been a lot of speculation about his injury. It apparently is a vague or difficult to diagnose issue. But it came out yesterday that he has lost a lot of strength in his shoulder and he is trying to build it back up. So the injury is still a bit mysterious, but the impact is very real.
I read the same thing 2 days ago. I suppose in his case being "healthy enough to play" won't necessarily mean he's strong enough to play yet. And yeah, Cooley did call him out. Like a jackass.
In Cooley's defense, he said he was just guessing that it was a situation where a guy is hurt but not injured enough where he should be out. He said that sometimes there are guys that don't play when they "should" and calling them out can get them on the field. He clearly stated that he wasn't speaking on facts; just his guess.

But, then not in Cooley's defense, he used Jordan Reed's recent several-game absence as an example of this. You know, the one where Reed was in the concussion protocol and should, in no way, be playing through those injuries.

 
Redskins Linebacker Perry Riley, Jr., will need surgery to repair a broken bone in his right foot and will miss three to six weeks.
The Redskins are preparing mason foster to start at linebacker alongside will Compton. Gruden still not sure about k. Robinson availability
John Keim

 
But, then not in Cooley's defense, he used Jordan Reed's recent several-game absence as an example of this. You know, the one where Reed was in the concussion protocol and should, in no way, be playing through those injuries.
The longer Cooley's out of football the more he sounds like an angry old blowhard. He was really good when he started on the air. His knowledge was fresh and he had contacts inside the team. Now he's got no contacts, doesn't know what players' assignments are, doesn't know who's hurt, and tilts his breakdowns to show the guys he like had a great game.

He gave Alfred Morris a C or C- for last week's game.

edited to add: The reason for that grade was because the O-line can't sustain blocks long enough, Morris can't reach the edge. So because the O-line blocking isn't so good yet Morris gets graded down.

That would be moronic if any of us said it.

 
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And to think we were all so worried about TE coming into the season. I know Reed missed 2 games, but he's been one of, if not our best, offensive players this year.
Reed is basically our lead option from a receiving standpoint.

I read and interesting article talking about what decisions the Redskins have to make regarding re-signing Wide Receivers. A lot of us talk about whether to re-sign DJAX but whether to re-sign Garcon at his current salary (is it like 11 M / year) is a serious question if we are not going to throw to him like a WR that catches 80-100 balls per year.

The article made the point that Garcon is only targeted like 6 times per game and if that's the case, then you can get someone else do to that for far cheaper than 11 M per year. It's kind of like with New ENgland, Gronkowski is actually much, much more important than their # 1 receiver. You get the sense that that is currently the case in Washington as welll

Meanwhile, DJax is also not targetted that much and also is pricely (9.5 M / year?) ...BUT DJax brings a dynamic to the offense that is totally different, taking the top of the defense and changing the entire complexion of the passing game. I haven't looked at the stats in detail, but pretty sure before DJax came back, Cousins had one of the lowest Yards per Completion numbers and since DJAX return it's gotten much, much better.

While a lot of eyes are on the QB signing in offseason, I actually think that's going to be fairly routine (I think they will drop Griffin and sign Cousins, unless we see Cousins revert to Rex Mode). Meanwhile, WR is going to be very interesting situation this offseason.
Regarding the bolded, you can also look at the Eagles as an example of what Jackson does for an offense. The Eagles had a great offensive season 2 years ago. Last year, Maclin coming back somewhat mitigated the loss of Jackson, but the offense wasn't quite as good as 2013. This year, without Jackson or Maclin, the offense has ranged from pedestrian to downright bad. Jackson stretches the field and makes it much easier to attach a defense. The only downside are is his health as he can't stretch the field if he is standing on the sideline.

 
Marvelous said:
One note on Keenan Robinson. There has been a lot of speculation about his injury. It apparently is a vague or difficult to diagnose issue. But it came out yesterday that he has lost a lot of strength in his shoulder and he is trying to build it back up. So the injury is still a bit mysterious, but the impact is very real.
Cooley on Monday was calling him out for being soft and said he needs to get back out there. Doubt Cooley will apologize for talking out of his ###.
Chris Russell was saying the same thing tonight. Saying He knows that The Redskins staff all think Robinson is soft but they'll never say that. And HE certainly isn't calling out Robinson but that's how everyone feels about him. :lmao:

What a jackass

 
Redskins-Cowboys Monday night last year. Away team starts their 3rd QB of the season. Wins.

No easy games in this rivalry.
I'm fairly nervous about tomorrow. I am starting the Skins D in a must win game for me though, so I do have some confidence. Nervous confidence I guess

 
Giants lose!

At worst, still tied for first even with a loss tomorrow night. Obviously a win would then give us much better control.

 
We control our own destiny in December.

Sorry, I just wanted to type that out. We control our own destiny in December.

 
dehaven123 said:
Thank you, Mr bowles. Good to see u haven't forgot your roots here in Washington.
I always liked Todd Bowles. And I think he's a pretty good HC. Didn't we interview him for DC or HC one time and pick someone else instead?

 
I think what Cooley misses out on is comparing Cousins to other QBs. He simply looks at Cousins and determines whether he thinks Cousins is playing well. But, really, it's more about how he compares to other QBs. "Good", "Great", "Average", "Bad" are all based on what else is out there at the time. What Cousins is doing now may compare well to, say, QB performances 10 or 15 years ago. I would certainly have taken 2015 Cousins production on my team in the early 90s. But, the game changes. For example, Cousins has a 91.7 quarterback rating this season. That sounds awesome based on the NFL I grew up watching. However, that's only good for 17th right now. (I'm not saying rating is the greatest stat; just using it as an example. As I posted in the Cousins thread a couple weeks ago, he ranks in the average or below average neighborhood on other stats like Y/A, AY/A, etc.)

Statistically, I'd say Cousins is an average QB, at best, in today's NFL. The most encouraging thing, I think, about him right now is that he no longer craps the bed. That's a step in the right direction. Interestingly, Football Outsiders - who probably do some of the best football statistical work and take game situations into account - have Cousins 10th in DYAR and 12th in DVOA. Those are a bit higher than I'd expect, but I certainly respect their work more than others.

He's had his moments. He might develop more and become a top 10 QB. He might not. Cooley believes in him. Others do not.
I think this is a very fair analysis. Cousins is basically an average QB. Therefore, I think Shanahan saying he's Top 10 or Cooley basically putting him in the HOF is way overboard and in fact, I'd argue that they are not doing Cousins any favors by raising expectations to unfair levels.

But I also think that having an "average QB" is more valuable in the NFL than sometimes we may think. The NFL only has a limited number of elite "franchise" guys and you can't just go out and pick them up off the streets. Additionally, if you draft a guy with any pick below, say # 5, it's hit or miss -- and sometimes it's even hit or miss in the top 5. So when fans say, "Cousins is average" there is the danger that we think we can just jettison and replace him easily, but I don't think that is the case. I'm sorry; Aaron Rodgers is just not looking to sign with Washington next year. However, Matt Cassell may be more than happy to step in as the Redskins starter.

So you have to look at it like this: what are your available options -- and how does Cousins stack up against those options. If -- and it's a big if -- if Cousins can limit his Interceptions as he has done the last 5 weeks, then I think he is indeed our best option NEXT YEAR. I'm handicapping him a bit higher because he knows the other players, coaches, etc. and that really means something -- it is clear that the team is playing for him. Now, if we want to draft a young guy and bring him along, I'm ok with that of course. I'm not one of these people who think that QBs should not face competition.

In other words, we say "average" like it's a bad thing. If you are an average HS QB you are not special. But if you are an average NFL QB you are still a valuable commodity because in this QB-scarce league there are a lot of BELOW AVERAGE guys starting.

But yeah, Cooley and Shanny acting like he's HOF already...they are just rubes. Note that Cousins is not saying that about himself...nor should he.
Once again, average is looking really good right now. Who would have thought that Cousins would be an average QB when they anointed him the starting QB?

One more thought on average. Average gives you a 7-7 record after 14 weeks. This puts you in the wild card race most years. This year, with a weak division, you can be playing for a division title. Average is not a bad place to be. It is where half of the teams in the NFL are. And it is a place the Redskins have not been in for a long time except for a couple of aberration years.
I vehemently disagree with the bolded sentence.
After this weekend, 15 of the 32 teams will be 7-5, 6-6, or 5-7. I still think half the teams in the NFL are about average.

 
For some reason, I think it might have been good for the Redskins that the Eagles won yesterday. I feel like this team plays better when it is in "Code Red" mode and now if they lose, all of a sudden they've let Philly right back in this thing with a showdown coming up AT Philadelphia after Christmas...

 
“Maybe I shouldn’t do it, I’m an emotional guy, and it matters so much,” McCloughan told me. “I want them to understand, supposedly me being the boss, that I respect what they’ve done. Because it’s hard to do. It’s hard to win on Sundays. Home, away, it doesn’t matter where you are, it’s hard to do. All these guys bust their tails all week for us, and I want to show respect to them, you know? So that’s what it’s about.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/12/07/scot-mccloughan-is-the-redskins-congratulator-in-chief/

 
To put that picture in context for you folks who don't remember it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cQ8RUM1L7pI

edit: I remember watching that game, thinking there was no way he'd stop him, thinking the ball couldn't possibly have stopped short of the goal line, and then realizing the Skins had won. Most exciting ending to a Skins game I've ever seen. It still seems impossible.

 
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