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Official 2016 GOP thread: Is it really going to be Donald Trump?? (2 Viewers)

rockaction said:
I question the premise of drawing anything concrete from even the most direct of questions when polling places do it.

People are righteously pissed off about their government, and are likely to give weird responses to even very concrete and simple questions.

Perhaps I overestimate the American public, but the level of satisfaction that sits at record -- and really record -- lows in trust in politics, institutions, even the media should give one pause.

My really smart friend has gone into deep polling; he's fascinated by how differently people act from what they say. I've begun to be fascinated, too.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: ok now this is getting spooky :unsure:
 
roadkill1292 said:
I don't think Obama, Clinton, Bush I, Reagan or Nixon gave a rat's patoot about personal religious faith.
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Meh, I dunno.

Nixon got Kissinger to get on his knees and pray for mercy.

I think Obama is a UCC Christian, I think he prays, and he knows some stuff about all Christians. I think he's quoted more verse than anyone.

Carter, definitely. Bush Jr., definitely. And Bill Clinton I'm guessing learned some to a lot of his skills from preachers.

Frankly if you weren't religious before I don't know how you get through a day of that job without praying for help whether you believe the help is there or not.

 
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jamny said:
Debate participants:

By podium position:

9 Christie, 7 Rubio, 5 Carson, 3 Walker, 1 Trump, 2 Bush, 4 Huckabee, 6 Cruz, 8 Paul, 10 Kasich

Kids Table:

17 Gilmore, 15 Graham, 13 Jindal, 11 Perry, 12 Santorum, 14, Fiorina, 16 Pataki
Click to expand...
Exited for polling position and added kids table.

-QG

 
I'm not saying that the Dems have anyone better, but I just look at that list and think, "Is this really the best America can do?"

It's like watching Celebrity Rehab.

 
It's evenly split, 5 to 5:

Bush, Walker, Rubio, Kasich, Christie = the "serious" candidates

Trump, Huckabee, Carson, Cruz, Paul = the clown car

 
proninja said:
There is a very broad spectrum of political beliefs in the catholic church, I don't think I'd consider catholics to be either liberal or conservative
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Catholics had, up until Roe, long been thought Democrats, proninja. Not until Roe was there even a question nor a wedge issue to operate within. Now it's wildly different. It was an old joke I made, and I'm pretty sure it's accurate by affiliation up until around Atwater's move into the conservative South in 1972.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_politics_in_the_United_States

 
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rockaction said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
jamny said:
Debate participants:

Trump, Bush, Walker, Huckabee, Carson, Cruz, Rubio, Paul, Christie, Kasich
Click to expand...
jamny said:
5pm debate:

Perry, Santorum, Jindal, Fiorina, Graham, Pataki, Gilmore
Click to expand...
I'm disappointed Fiorina isn't in Debate 2 (the top 10) instead of Huck.
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Fiorina could come out of nowhere to win this nomination.

Heard it here first and last.

Love,

RA
Click to expand...
I have her chances somewhere between zero and none.

 
timschochet said:
Perry is the one most disappointed here. He was fighting it out with Kasich and Christie for that last spot.
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I do have to give Perry credit so far; He seems to be off the medicine (if that was causing him to act like an idiot). I haven't seen or heard every word he's said, but he seems like a better candidate the 2nd time around. He's definitely being crowded out of the field at the moment though.

In that 2nd grouping, Fiorina has some small hope, Jindal is a walking talking point....

I was surprised that Santorum is doing as bad as he is to start.

 
With polling being used to sort out the 1st debate on FOX, should polling in August (and July) be considered relevant?

Has polling this early ever been predictive of future results?

 
NetnautX said:
timschochet said:
It's evenly split, 5 to 5:

Bush, Walker, Rubio, Kasich, Christie = the "serious" candidates

Trump, Huckabee, Carson, Cruz, Paul = the clown car
Click to expand...
Not sure that's fair to Paul, otherwise agreed.
Click to expand...
When does Trump go into the serious car?

I don't disagree with 5 you listed out, Paul is probably more in the serious candidates group, but I think he's got a small ceiling within the party.

 
cubd8 said:
With polling being used to sort out the 1st debate on FOX, should polling in August (and July) be considered relevant?

Has polling this early ever been predictive of future results?
Click to expand...
Polling, especially national polling, is a stupid way to decide who is in and who is out. Additionally, both the RNC and the DNC have taken steps to ruin the debates.

 
cubd8 said:
timschochet said:
Perry is the one most disappointed here. He was fighting it out with Kasich and Christie for that last spot.
Click to expand...
I do have to give Perry credit so far; He seems to be off the medicine (if that was causing him to act like an idiot). I haven't seen or heard every word he's said, but he seems like a better candidate the 2nd time around. He's definitely being crowded out of the field at the moment though.

In that 2nd grouping, Fiorina has some small hope, Jindal is a walking talking point....

I was surprised that Santorum is doing as bad as he is to start.
Click to expand...
Agree in the sense that Perry can obviously tell that he has to thread a needle to have a chance - zero margin of error. Saw Perry's wife and she handled the whole "glasses" question well with charm - he shoulda done an interview with her about it from the outset. It's interesting to think if pain meds had that kind of effect (totally plausible) but it brings to mind all of JFK's ailments (he literally is a case study in medical textbooks) which surely were more pervasive and did not show that kind of effect.

Fiorina I was less impressed with than others (maybe it's harping but she status quo like 40 times it seemed like). Supposedly she is good in small rooms. I would assume all her chips will be in Iowa then - no idea what kind of organization she has. And organization is everything there.

Santorum benefited greatly from the shape of the previous field. All these not-Romney's imploded (Cain especially) and there was no real place for that Huckabee voter to go. But Huckabee is back. And there are other newer and I guess more compelling candidates running in the same lane. It's emblematic of just how weak the bunch was last time. I think Perry suffers from this a bit as well. The big field is just killing guys who prominently ran before. (I think Kasich is less hurt b/c his first run was so poor that it's probably not remembered).

Jindal would have benefited in his run for vice president by trying to figure out who the winning horse was. Bet heavy on that person early and work his ### off for 'em. And yeah - I think he's 100% running for each vice-president or (in his mind) a future run. I think it's a terrible year to be a guy who is not read and who is running for a different year. You'll just be remembered as the guy who came in 15th.

-QG

 
For the record all of the candidates are bad and nobody I'd vote for. But a 17-way race like this is too much :popcorn: for me to resist as a thought exercise :)

-QG

 
Trump was actually good on Morning Joe.

Everyone in politics watches Morning Joe. It's actually taken seriously unlike O'Reilly or Maddow types. Unfortunately the ratings don't show otherwise.

Mika is a nut but how do you not dvr Morning Joe and watch the first 20 minutes?

 
It's amazing that Obama's religion is still considered an important enough issue that has candidates being questioned about it.

What's next...more birther questions?

 
Sure it's an issue. It's an issue because of that church and Jeremiah Wright. The media bullies up against the right for questioning it -- that church -- as if it were a referendum on the media itself. Well, it ####in' is. It's a referendum on idiots who can't ask a question about a church that #######ed America for a number of years.

Stunning.

No independent thinker could possibly not question that church's patriotism or denomination.

Forget unchurched leftists. Those dudes were churched.

 
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rockaction said:
Sure it's an issue. It's an issue because of that church and Jeremiah Wright. The media bullies up against the right for questioning it -- that church -- as if it were a referendum on the media itself. Well, it ####in' is. It's a referendum on idiots who can't ask a question about a church that #######ed America for a number of years.

Stunning.

No independent thinker could possibly not question that church's patriotism or denomination.
Click to expand...
The problem is that is has nothing to do with the 2016 election. What is the point of even asking that question? How does the candidate's answer impact anything?

 
Anthony Borbely said:
rockaction said:
Sure it's an issue. It's an issue because of that church and Jeremiah Wright. The media bullies up against the right for questioning it -- that church -- as if it were a referendum on the media itself. Well, it ####in' is. It's a referendum on idiots who can't ask a question about a church that #######ed America for a number of years.

Stunning.

No independent thinker could possibly not question that church's patriotism or denomination.
Click to expand...
The problem is that is has nothing to do with the 2016 election. What is the point of even asking that question? How does the candidate's answer impact anything?
Click to expand...
It's a litmus test about Fox News and the media. At least they think so. It's a way for the mainstream media to vet candidates and hope they play nice. I would advocate the opposite. #### them.

Because the problem is, the words actually coming out of Wright's mouth were so clear, and so plain, that only an institution that was so in the tank for the President couldn't see fit to try and turn it around as a disinformation campaign.

My eyes and ears don't lie. I know what was said.

Any assertion to the contrary is insane, and needs a head examination or a hearing test.

 
rockaction said:
Sure it's an issue. It's an issue because of that church and Jeremiah Wright. The media bullies up against the right for questioning it -- that church -- as if it were a referendum on the media itself. Well, it ####in' is. It's a referendum on idiots who can't ask a question about a church that #######ed America for a number of years.

Stunning.

No independent thinker could possibly not question that church's patriotism or denomination.

Forget unchurched leftists. Those dudes were churched.
Click to expand...
That's not why it's an issue. Its an issue for the same reason that his birthplace was an issue: because our President is a black man with a foreign, Muslim sounding name. It's the same reason that 4 years ago Newt Gingrich suggested that Obama's real goal was to avenge his Kenyan ancestors in the Mau Mau Rebellion- why Dinesh Dsouza made a film, lauded by so many conservatives, that Obama desired to reshape America in an "anti colonial" way- why Ted Cruz says Obama doesn't love America and Mike Huckabee says Obama doesn't view things "the way you and I do". All of it is a thinly veiled attempt to paint Obama as an "other", a nonAmerican, and it's rooted in racism, and over half of all Republicans buy into it, sadly.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
jamny said:
Debate participants:

Trump, Bush, Walker, Huckabee, Carson, Cruz, Rubio, Paul, Christie, Kasich
Click to expand...
jamny said:
5pm debate:

Perry, Santorum, Jindal, Fiorina, Graham, Pataki, Gilmore
Click to expand...
I'm disappointed Fiorina isn't in Debate 2 (the top 10) instead of Huck.
Click to expand...
Agree. I can't wrap my head around who would support Huck..

 
jamny said:
Perry might actually benefit as the top guy in the undercard debate.
Click to expand...
I don't see it. It airs live while most people will be in their cars. I'm sure the rebroadcast of it will be shunted off similarly.

Though New Hampshire doesn't have a lot of traffic so it might help in that regard.

-QG

 
Rove! said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
jamny said:
Debate participants:

Trump, Bush, Walker, Huckabee, Carson, Cruz, Rubio, Paul, Christie, Kasich
Click to expand...
jamny said:
5pm debate:

Perry, Santorum, Jindal, Fiorina, Graham, Pataki, Gilmore
Click to expand...
I'm disappointed Fiorina isn't in Debate 2 (the top 10) instead of Huck.
Click to expand...
Agree. I can't wrap my head around who would support Huck..
Click to expand...
He's the only ordained candidate, no?

-QG

 
QuizGuy66 said:
jamny said:
Perry might actually benefit as the top guy in the undercard debate.
Click to expand...
I don't see it. It airs live while most people will be in their cars. I'm sure the rebroadcast of it will be shunted off similarly.

Though New Hampshire doesn't have a lot of traffic so it might help in that regard.

-QG
Click to expand...
A lot more people read about the debates or see clips of them than actually watch it live. I can certainly imagine some positive press coverage for a candidate who does well at the JV debate. I sorta doubt that person will be Perry though.

 
timschochet said:
rockaction said:
Sure it's an issue. It's an issue because of that church and Jeremiah Wright. The media bullies up against the right for questioning it -- that church -- as if it were a referendum on the media itself. Well, it ####in' is. It's a referendum on idiots who can't ask a question about a church that #######ed America for a number of years.

Stunning.

No independent thinker could possibly not question that church's patriotism or denomination.

Forget unchurched leftists. Those dudes were churched.
Click to expand...
That's not why it's an issue. Its an issue for the same reason that his birthplace was an issue: because our President is a black man with a foreign, Muslim sounding name.It's the same reason that 4 years ago Newt Gingrich suggested that Obama's real goal was to avenge his Kenyan ancestors in the Mau Mau Rebellion- why Dinesh Dsouza made a film, lauded by so many conservatives, that Obama desired to reshape America in an "anti colonial" way- why Ted Cruz says Obama doesn't love America and Mike Huckabee says Obama doesn't view things "the way you and I do". All of it is a thinly veiled attempt to paint Obama as an "other", a nonAmerican, and it's rooted in racism, and over half of all Republicans buy into it, sadly.
Click to expand...
So has there been an update on the Pew poll from 2010 when 54% of Democrats thought that Obama was either muslim or they weren't sure? And why did the number go up after he became president?

I can see your point generally, but if you're right specifically as to the Obama / Pew issue, why not include independents and Democrats as well?

Let's face it, the question was asked at a GOP roundup to Walker specifically but it would be funny to hear the issue directed to Hillary whose campaign circulated pictures of Obama in African garb while the Demo nomination was still in full swing. Nobody will ask her how that decision was made.

 
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This took like zero time to research:

Hillary: Obama Not Muslim "As Far As I Know"Huffington Post
Posted: 03/28/2008
Via Ben Smith, Hillary gives a less than adamant answer to a question about Obama's religion on 60 Minutes. Hillary claims, "I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that." It's an issue where even an accidental slip this can do damage:
Click to expand...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/03/hillary-obama-not-muslim-_n_89546.html

Hillary Clinton Stokes False Rumors about Obama's Faith
Click to expand...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHFREDHB-nQ

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
timschochet said:
rockaction said:
Sure it's an issue. It's an issue because of that church and Jeremiah Wright. The media bullies up against the right for questioning it -- that church -- as if it were a referendum on the media itself. Well, it ####in' is. It's a referendum on idiots who can't ask a question about a church that #######ed America for a number of years.

Stunning.

No independent thinker could possibly not question that church's patriotism or denomination.

Forget unchurched leftists. Those dudes were churched.
Click to expand...
That's not why it's an issue. Its an issue for the same reason that his birthplace was an issue: because our President is a black man with a foreign, Muslim sounding name.It's the same reason that 4 years ago Newt Gingrich suggested that Obama's real goal was to avenge his Kenyan ancestors in the Mau Mau Rebellion- why Dinesh Dsouza made a film, lauded by so many conservatives, that Obama desired to reshape America in an "anti colonial" way- why Ted Cruz says Obama doesn't love America and Mike Huckabee says Obama doesn't view things "the way you and I do". All of it is a thinly veiled attempt to paint Obama as an "other", a nonAmerican, and it's rooted in racism, and over half of all Republicans buy into it, sadly.
Click to expand...
So has there been an update on the Pew poll from 2010 when 54% of Democrats thought that Obama was either muslim or they weren't sure? And why did the number go up after he became president?

I can see your point generally, but if you're right specifically as to the Obama / Pew issue, why not include independents and Democrats as well?

Let's face it, the question was asked at a GOP roundup to Walker specifically but it would be funny to hear the issue directed to Hillary whose campaign circulated pictures of Obama in African garb while the Demo nomination was still in full swing. Nobody will ask her how that decision was made.
Click to expand...
Her campaign has largely been credited with that one, for sure.

I am not sure about the truth of it, but that's been a longtime complaint from those of us on the right.

PUMA (For the uninitiated, that means Party Unity My ###, which is in reference to the 2008 campaign). HUMA. Whatever.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This took like zero time to research:

Hillary: Obama Not Muslim "As Far As I Know"Huffington Post
Posted: 03/28/2008
Via Ben Smith, Hillary gives a less than adamant answer to a question about Obama's religion on 60 Minutes. Hillary claims, "I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that." It's an issue where even an accidental slip this can do damage:
Click to expand...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/03/hillary-obama-not-muslim-_n_89546.html

Hillary Clinton Stokes False Rumors about Obama's Faith
Click to expand...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHFREDHB-nQ
Click to expand...
Shouldn't have. Common knowledge.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This took like zero time to research:

Hillary: Obama Not Muslim "As Far As I Know"Huffington Post
Posted: 03/28/2008
Via Ben Smith, Hillary gives a less than adamant answer to a question about Obama's religion on 60 Minutes. Hillary claims, "I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that." It's an issue where even an accidental slip this can do damage:
Click to expand...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/03/hillary-obama-not-muslim-_n_89546.html

Hillary Clinton Stokes False Rumors about Obama's Faith
Click to expand...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHFREDHB-nQ
Click to expand...
If you can watch that 23 second clip and come away thinking that she's expressing a sentiment remotely similar to what Walker is expressing ... I don't even know what to say. She says "no" or "of course not" in no uncertain terms like ten times, and adds the "... as far as I know" as a casual rejoinder to the sentence "there's nothing to base that on," not to whether or not he's actually a Muslim. Come on. That's taking "gotcha" politics and gaffe-hunting to the extreme.

 
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