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***Official 2018 Baltimore Orioles Thread*** Pitching Can’t Get Any Worse (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter avoiding injuries
- Start date
What a treat tonight's game was. Gonzales pitched a great game and he gave the big arms in the bullpen a needed rest. Soo glad Buck let him come back out for the ninth and allowed him to finish the deal, it's cool to finally see a complete game again.
Gary Thorne mentioned that the O's have now won 8 consecutive series at home for the first time since 1984. Wow.
Just looking ahead a little, how sweet it would be if the O's can clinch the division at home. There are 17 games between now and the close of the home schedule on Sept. 21. Figure the O's go 10-7, that means the Yanks and Jays have to lose what, 6 games between now and then? We can certainly help our cause as we play the Jays three times and the Yanks four during that last home stretch. Gotta make this happen.
I have penant fever and I am loving it!
Gary Thorne mentioned that the O's have now won 8 consecutive series at home for the first time since 1984. Wow.
Just looking ahead a little, how sweet it would be if the O's can clinch the division at home. There are 17 games between now and the close of the home schedule on Sept. 21. Figure the O's go 10-7, that means the Yanks and Jays have to lose what, 6 games between now and then? We can certainly help our cause as we play the Jays three times and the Yanks four during that last home stretch. Gotta make this happen.
I have penant fever and I am loving it!
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Very envious of you two tonight, I know you guys enjoyed yourselves. I need to make a trip down there myself before the season is done.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
We were in 14. Great game.
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The_Man
Footballguy
I wasn't right on the money, but Lough going deep definitely reinforces my point about how everything Buck does this year seems to work.
That was one of the most enjoyable games of the year. Schoop with the longest HR hit this season at Camden Yards. Davis going deep to the opposite field, inspiring hope that he can still get hot for the last month of the season. And Gonzo getting the standing O as he came back out for the 9th and then finishing the job.
All in a tidy 2:36 that let us stay until the end on a school night. Pretty cool to be in our seats for the final out at 9:45 and having my daughter home and in bed by 10:15.
I saw an incredible stat this morning. Since July 16, the Orioles are 23-1 when they score 4 or more runs in a game. Just shows what a difference getting Miller has made in rounding out the bullpen - if the O's get past the 5th inning with a lead, the game is over.
The_Man
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure the O's are going 1-2, maybe 0-3 in Tampa. Figure they lose tonight, since they probably didn't get to their hotel until 4 a.m. or so. Then they face Smyly who threw 7 innings of 2-hit ball at them on Aug. 27.
I'm already getting annoyed thinking about the freaking out and complaining that will start if/when that happens, just like after they got swept at Wrigley.
Never mind that that sweep was sandwiched by a 9-3 stretch on one end and the now-concluded 9-2 homestand on the other. People will be losing their minds. Baltimore fans are kind of hard to put up with some times - they pretty much expect the Ravens/Orioles to win every single game in a blowout, and go crazy crapping on the team when they don't. I will be very satisfied if they manage a 3-3 road trip to Tampa and Boston and won't have an issue with 2-4. 1-5 with the Yankees coming to town might make me a little nervous.
I'm already getting annoyed thinking about the freaking out and complaining that will start if/when that happens, just like after they got swept at Wrigley.
Never mind that that sweep was sandwiched by a 9-3 stretch on one end and the now-concluded 9-2 homestand on the other. People will be losing their minds. Baltimore fans are kind of hard to put up with some times - they pretty much expect the Ravens/Orioles to win every single game in a blowout, and go crazy crapping on the team when they don't. I will be very satisfied if they manage a 3-3 road trip to Tampa and Boston and won't have an issue with 2-4. 1-5 with the Yankees coming to town might make me a little nervous.
It is so easy to lose perspective. If a team wins 60% of their games, you have a 97 win game and one of the top teams in MLB. That is still 65 loses in a year.The_Man said:
The Orioles have been amazing, consistently winning series after series. Most teams will have some hot stretches and losing streaks during the season. And the Orioles have mostly avoided that. 9-2 over 11 games is probably the hottest the team has been.
The_Man
Footballguy
Pretty excited after 26 innings of weekend crap to have Cruz salvage the series like that. And - after all that weak baseball - to have the magic number go from 15 to 12.
I love the math. If O's go 10-10, Yankees have to go 20-1 to catch them. If the O's go 8-12, Yankees have to go 18-3. Even if they go 6-10, NY would still need to go 16-5 to tie. I don't see a 16-5 stretch in them. Also, very nice that the Red Sox were eliminated yesterday.
It's over, and though of course he will never say so, Buck knows it. I have a lot of faith that Buck has a plan in place to get this team where he wants it for the playoffs. Maybe ease through the next 10 or 12 games, giving the regulars lots of rest to get fresh and healthy, and then turn it back up for the last week of the regular season to get them sharp. That's just a guess - I obviously don't know the plan, but absolutely believe there is one.
I wish some fans would get a clue. People freaking out to put Hardy in the game yesterday after Flaherty's ninth-inning error. JJ's got a bad back, Tampa's turf is terrible, and the game is essentially meaningless. So much better to let these guys get healthy for October then to grind out Game 140. That's the payoff for running away with the pennant. It's been so long, maybe some folks in Baltimore have forgotten.
I love the math. If O's go 10-10, Yankees have to go 20-1 to catch them. If the O's go 8-12, Yankees have to go 18-3. Even if they go 6-10, NY would still need to go 16-5 to tie. I don't see a 16-5 stretch in them. Also, very nice that the Red Sox were eliminated yesterday.
It's over, and though of course he will never say so, Buck knows it. I have a lot of faith that Buck has a plan in place to get this team where he wants it for the playoffs. Maybe ease through the next 10 or 12 games, giving the regulars lots of rest to get fresh and healthy, and then turn it back up for the last week of the regular season to get them sharp. That's just a guess - I obviously don't know the plan, but absolutely believe there is one.
I wish some fans would get a clue. People freaking out to put Hardy in the game yesterday after Flaherty's ninth-inning error. JJ's got a bad back, Tampa's turf is terrible, and the game is essentially meaningless. So much better to let these guys get healthy for October then to grind out Game 140. That's the payoff for running away with the pennant. It's been so long, maybe some folks in Baltimore have forgotten.
The_Man
Footballguy
Was just thinking how quiet it is in here. Guess this is pretty boring, huh?
With a magic number of 11, I'm looking at Doug DeCinces, the progenitor of Orioles Magic, another great memory from 1979. Lame effort from the Bosox last night, with Big Game Tommy Hunter coming through huge in the 7th when Boston mounted its only threat.
Started looking ahead at the schedule - I think the Orioles clinch on Sept. 19, vs. Boston, in the first game of the season's final home series. I have the Orioles going 5-4 heading into that series and the Yankees going 5-5 to get the Magic Number to 1.
I also think the Orioles host their first ALDS game on Thursday, Oct. 2. The regular season ends on Sunday, 9/28. There's nothing scheduled for 9/29 to allow for one-game tiebreakers, and then - based on last year's schedule - there would be Wild Card games on 9/30 and 10/1. Because the Wild Card team has to travel to the #1 seed, historically the first day after the last Wild Card game is when the 2nd and 3rd seeds in both leagues play Game 1 vs. each other.
Just to kill time, I projected a possibility for the rotation for the rest of the season:
9/9: Tillman
9/10: Chen
9/11: off
9/12 (DH): Gausman/Norris
9/13: Gonzo
9/14: Tillman
9/15: Chen
9/16: shocker - Ubaldo. Because of the double-header, they need a spot start from someone. I think Gausman gets skipped this turn.
9/17: Norris
9/18: Off
9/19: Here's where Buck can really begin to set up his post-season rotation. It would be Gonzo's turn, pitching on 5 days rest. Instead, I'll speculate that he puts Tillman in here on normal rest, to get him set up as the #1 guy in the rotation.
9/20: Now the question is do you go with Chen on 4 days rest, or put Gonzo here, now on 6 days. I think Buck will want Chen to pitch 2nd in the post-season, to go Righty-Lefty, but he will have flexibility to do that in the following week. He likes to get Chen extra rest days, and Gonzo might be their best pitcher right now, so you don't want to get him too far off schedule. So I'll say Gonzo.
9/21: Chen on 5 days rest
9/22: Gausman
9/23: Norris on 5 days rest
9/24: And now you're back on a regular turn through the rotation to finish the season, starting with Tillman
9/25: Gonzo
9/26: Chen
9/27: Gausman
9/28: Norris
9/29, 9/30, 10/1: off days
10/2: Tillman in ALDS Game 1 - on 7 days rest
10/3: Here's where you move Chen to #2 in the rotation, on 6 days rest
This could obviously change if Buck doesn't feel good about the top guys having that long between starts. He could give them 5 or 6 days before their final starts of the regular season, which would push them later in the final week, and maybe have them make their playoff starts with 5 days rest, instead of 6 or 7. I guess the point is that Buck will be able to set things up however he wants, which is the huge advantage of clinching the division so early.
Will also be interesting to see if he goes with a 3 or 4-man playoff rotation. I might think 4 at this point, with Norris as the 4th guy and Gausman coming in throwing 98 from the pen.
With a magic number of 11, I'm looking at Doug DeCinces, the progenitor of Orioles Magic, another great memory from 1979. Lame effort from the Bosox last night, with Big Game Tommy Hunter coming through huge in the 7th when Boston mounted its only threat.
Started looking ahead at the schedule - I think the Orioles clinch on Sept. 19, vs. Boston, in the first game of the season's final home series. I have the Orioles going 5-4 heading into that series and the Yankees going 5-5 to get the Magic Number to 1.
I also think the Orioles host their first ALDS game on Thursday, Oct. 2. The regular season ends on Sunday, 9/28. There's nothing scheduled for 9/29 to allow for one-game tiebreakers, and then - based on last year's schedule - there would be Wild Card games on 9/30 and 10/1. Because the Wild Card team has to travel to the #1 seed, historically the first day after the last Wild Card game is when the 2nd and 3rd seeds in both leagues play Game 1 vs. each other.
Just to kill time, I projected a possibility for the rotation for the rest of the season:
9/9: Tillman
9/10: Chen
9/11: off
9/12 (DH): Gausman/Norris
9/13: Gonzo
9/14: Tillman
9/15: Chen
9/16: shocker - Ubaldo. Because of the double-header, they need a spot start from someone. I think Gausman gets skipped this turn.
9/17: Norris
9/18: Off
9/19: Here's where Buck can really begin to set up his post-season rotation. It would be Gonzo's turn, pitching on 5 days rest. Instead, I'll speculate that he puts Tillman in here on normal rest, to get him set up as the #1 guy in the rotation.
9/20: Now the question is do you go with Chen on 4 days rest, or put Gonzo here, now on 6 days. I think Buck will want Chen to pitch 2nd in the post-season, to go Righty-Lefty, but he will have flexibility to do that in the following week. He likes to get Chen extra rest days, and Gonzo might be their best pitcher right now, so you don't want to get him too far off schedule. So I'll say Gonzo.
9/21: Chen on 5 days rest
9/22: Gausman
9/23: Norris on 5 days rest
9/24: And now you're back on a regular turn through the rotation to finish the season, starting with Tillman
9/25: Gonzo
9/26: Chen
9/27: Gausman
9/28: Norris
9/29, 9/30, 10/1: off days
10/2: Tillman in ALDS Game 1 - on 7 days rest
10/3: Here's where you move Chen to #2 in the rotation, on 6 days rest
This could obviously change if Buck doesn't feel good about the top guys having that long between starts. He could give them 5 or 6 days before their final starts of the regular season, which would push them later in the final week, and maybe have them make their playoff starts with 5 days rest, instead of 6 or 7. I guess the point is that Buck will be able to set things up however he wants, which is the huge advantage of clinching the division so early.
Will also be interesting to see if he goes with a 3 or 4-man playoff rotation. I might think 4 at this point, with Norris as the 4th guy and Gausman coming in throwing 98 from the pen.
Reminded me of late season Orioles baseball pre-Buck. I really liked watching Big Sloppy go down hard against Tillman, made me smile every time.
The_Man
Footballguy
Thanks for the day game reminder. While we watch, I had some idle thoughts about the 25-man playoff roster. It's impossible to know for sure, because the way Buck plays match-ups, he won't make his final decision until he knows the opponent.
Definitely in - 11 position players
C: Joseph, Hundley
1B/3B: Davis, Pearce
2B/SS: Hardy, Schoop, Flaherty
OF/DH: Markakis, Jones, Cruz, Young
Definitely in - 11 pitchers
Tillman
Chen
Gonzalez
Norris
Gausman
Britton
O'Day
Miller
Hunter
Brach
Matusz
That leaves 3 spaces. Buck has gone with 13 pitchers and 12 players for much of the season, but I think in a short series, he switches that up and goes with 13 players to get an extra bat. If that's the case, I think the last pitcher slot comes down to either McFarland or whoever you like more between Webb/Meek. I don't think you need McFarland as the long man, because you have Gausman or Norris for that. But Buck might love the option of having a 3rd lefty. But I wouldn't trust him with the season on the line - I think whichever of Webb/Meek is better down the stretch gets the nod, and right now that looks like Meek.
That leaves 2 slots to be split up among De Aza, Lough, Paredes and Kelly Johnson.
I think De Aza is going to make it. He can play all 3 OF positions, has some speed, and most important gives them a lefty pinch-hitter. Buck doesn't want to look down his bench in Game 5 of the ALDS and see Flaherty and Lough as his only left-handed pinch-hitting options.
Then it gets very tricky. If you keep De Aza, why would you also keep Lough? They're essentially the same guy. And something that scares me is how very shallow this team is at middle infield. Right now, their only back-up SS (Flaherty) is also their only back-up 2B and pretty much their only back-up 3B (Schoop is a very good 2B but was a disaster at 3B). Hardy has a nagging back and if - God forbid - he were to go down in the playoffs, the Orioles would be screwed. You'd have to put Flaherty at SS, Schoop at 2B, Davis at 3B and Pearce at 1B - that would be the only possible line-up and you would have no subs. So I wonder if Kelly Johnson (also a lefty bat) doesn't end up on the post-season roster, even if he never plays and is there only as insurance.
Definitely in - 11 position players
C: Joseph, Hundley
1B/3B: Davis, Pearce
2B/SS: Hardy, Schoop, Flaherty
OF/DH: Markakis, Jones, Cruz, Young
Definitely in - 11 pitchers
Tillman
Chen
Gonzalez
Norris
Gausman
Britton
O'Day
Miller
Hunter
Brach
Matusz
That leaves 3 spaces. Buck has gone with 13 pitchers and 12 players for much of the season, but I think in a short series, he switches that up and goes with 13 players to get an extra bat. If that's the case, I think the last pitcher slot comes down to either McFarland or whoever you like more between Webb/Meek. I don't think you need McFarland as the long man, because you have Gausman or Norris for that. But Buck might love the option of having a 3rd lefty. But I wouldn't trust him with the season on the line - I think whichever of Webb/Meek is better down the stretch gets the nod, and right now that looks like Meek.
That leaves 2 slots to be split up among De Aza, Lough, Paredes and Kelly Johnson.
I think De Aza is going to make it. He can play all 3 OF positions, has some speed, and most important gives them a lefty pinch-hitter. Buck doesn't want to look down his bench in Game 5 of the ALDS and see Flaherty and Lough as his only left-handed pinch-hitting options.
Then it gets very tricky. If you keep De Aza, why would you also keep Lough? They're essentially the same guy. And something that scares me is how very shallow this team is at middle infield. Right now, their only back-up SS (Flaherty) is also their only back-up 2B and pretty much their only back-up 3B (Schoop is a very good 2B but was a disaster at 3B). Hardy has a nagging back and if - God forbid - he were to go down in the playoffs, the Orioles would be screwed. You'd have to put Flaherty at SS, Schoop at 2B, Davis at 3B and Pearce at 1B - that would be the only possible line-up and you would have no subs. So I wonder if Kelly Johnson (also a lefty bat) doesn't end up on the post-season roster, even if he never plays and is there only as insurance.
I like your playoff roster breakdown, T_M. I agree with all but wonder if Buck may still pick Lough over Johnson as he's been Buck's go to late inning defensive replacement for most of the season, sort of a security blanket. If not it sucks for Lough getting caught up on the wrong end of the numbers crunch but c'est la vie, that's what happens to the end of the bench talent when it comes round to playoff time.
The_Man
Footballguy
I think Lough has been there because there hasn't been anyone else. Neither he nor De Aza can touch LHP, but vs. RHP, I think De Aza offers more. And he's played very well since coming to Baltimore. Whereas Lough has been bad this year.
Advanced stats say there's not much difference between them at the plate over the course of their careers - De Aza a slightly better baserunner, with Lough having a slightly larger edge as a Left Fielder. I will say that I have been very impressed with his glovework out there - Cruz is terrible and Delmon Young is comically bad.
I know from my point of view, I would feel better with De Aza than Lough at the plate as a pinch-hitter vs. a right-handed pitcher late in Game 5 of the ALDS.
Advanced stats say there's not much difference between them at the plate over the course of their careers - De Aza a slightly better baserunner, with Lough having a slightly larger edge as a Left Fielder. I will say that I have been very impressed with his glovework out there - Cruz is terrible and Delmon Young is comically bad.
I know from my point of view, I would feel better with De Aza than Lough at the plate as a pinch-hitter vs. a right-handed pitcher late in Game 5 of the ALDS.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
The_Man
Footballguy
How bad do I want to weasel out of work and head to the first game in today's day-night double-header? Real bad, but apparently not quite bad enough to anger my boss and deal with the Star-Spangled Banner Bicentennial crap downtown.
How is that MLB found it totally impossible to move a game last year to accommodate the Ravens' season-opener, but has no problem making the Yankees play a 1 p.m. game in Baltimore the afternoon after playing a night game in New York? They probably got in around 2 or 3, if they were lucky. Sure would be nice to put it on them in the early game.
Going Monday night - will be my 9th or 10th and probably final game of the year. Though I might have to go back if there's a pennant-clinching situation during the final homestand. Just don't know if I can pass that up. The Orioles are 43-20 since 6/30, sustaining a 111-win pace for 2.5 months. I'm enjoying this summer (and team) so much, I never want it to end. Only way it could be better is if we got to watch Manny play 3B every night as part of it.
How is that MLB found it totally impossible to move a game last year to accommodate the Ravens' season-opener, but has no problem making the Yankees play a 1 p.m. game in Baltimore the afternoon after playing a night game in New York? They probably got in around 2 or 3, if they were lucky. Sure would be nice to put it on them in the early game.
Going Monday night - will be my 9th or 10th and probably final game of the year. Though I might have to go back if there's a pennant-clinching situation during the final homestand. Just don't know if I can pass that up. The Orioles are 43-20 since 6/30, sustaining a 111-win pace for 2.5 months. I'm enjoying this summer (and team) so much, I never want it to end. Only way it could be better is if we got to watch Manny play 3B every night as part of it.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
####### Davis
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
So now what? Gotta imagine that Pierce is locked in at 1B. But what about 3B now? Flaherty? Can Schoop play it? Do theu have a prospect?
The_Man
Footballguy
So now you have 3 position player spots to fill. At this point De Aza is a lock for the ALDS roster. You must have his LH bat.
That leaves 2 slots to be split up among Lough, Paredes and Kelly Johnson.
I think Johnson is now guaranteed a spot as well. They're just two thin in the infield without him, made only worse by Hardy's bad back.
Flaherty is now your everyday 3B. Ugh. And Pearce looks locked in at 1B. Schoop and Hardy are the middle-infielders. If something happens to Hardy, Flaherty is the SS - I think you keep Schoop at 2B and bring in Johnson at 3B. But Johnson can play the middle infield also, Paredes is a corner guy only.
Last choice comes down to Lough or Paredes. I think since you already have 5 OFs (if you count Delmon Young as an OF) you kind of have to go with Paredes - switch-hitter and he can fill the hole left at the corners by Davis.
Wild Card would be to bring up Christian Walker, though it's kind of crazy to do that to a guy with only 166 Triple-A at bats and also doesn't solve question of infield depth, since he can't play 3B like Davis.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
I know he's had some big HRS, but he's a .196 hitter who strikes out a ton. How many times has he been unable to advance a runner or bring the guy on 3rd home with less than 2 outs? He's been struggling all year and my confidence level when he was coming up couldn't have been too much lower.
That's the positive spin.
The reality is we need his defense. I really hope K Johnson plays 3rd and Flaherty remains the Utility guy. Keep Pearce at 1st, even though it's a downgrade from Davis, he should be ok. Regardless, we had a better team yesterday than we do today.
That's the positive spin.
The reality is we need his defense. I really hope K Johnson plays 3rd and Flaherty remains the Utility guy. Keep Pearce at 1st, even though it's a downgrade from Davis, he should be ok. Regardless, we had a better team yesterday than we do today.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
I turned the game on the other night and Davis was at bat. I swear I thought it was Nick Markakis at first. Significantly smaller.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Hmmmm
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
The_Man
Footballguy
I really thought Davis turned a corner during that last 11-gamestand. He had 4 HRs, 11 RBI and an OPS over 1000. But as soon as they went on the road, he was 5-for-24 with 1 HR and 1 RBI over the last 6 games.
But he was still a presence. Remember during the homestand when twice they walked Davis to pitch to Hardy, and JJ (who has been incredibly clutch this year) made them pay both times. Nobody's walking Pearce or Kelly Johnson to get to JJ.
But he was still a presence. Remember during the homestand when twice they walked Davis to pitch to Hardy, and JJ (who has been incredibly clutch this year) made them pay both times. Nobody's walking Pearce or Kelly Johnson to get to JJ.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
These two games today are extremely important. Win both and I think they can push right through this set back. Lose both and things will get magnified. Split and things will be reassessed after the Sunday night game.
I would LOVE to win all 3 heading into the prime time game Sunday night. It would greatly limit the amount of criticism ESPN would give the TEAM.
I would LOVE to win all 3 heading into the prime time game Sunday night. It would greatly limit the amount of criticism ESPN would give the TEAM.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
I taught my 3-year-old son to march around the living room and chant "Pee-yew! The Yankees stink! Pee-yew the Yankees stink!"
He was doing it this afternoon. With me.
He was doing it this afternoon. With me.
Wow! We sent the B team out there and still kicked Yankee ####! Double header sweep with one run allowed in 20 innings? Yeah, I'll take that.
Thank god for expanded rosters as the O's used all the "A" pitchers and all the "B" pitchers for todays' games. Great performances today from both Gausmann and Norris while the pen continues to shine. Great all around team effort and heartening to see after the Davis news. Lets get one more in this series and two against the Jays to close this thing out.
Thank god for expanded rosters as the O's used all the "A" pitchers and all the "B" pitchers for todays' games. Great performances today from both Gausmann and Norris while the pen continues to shine. Great all around team effort and heartening to see after the Davis news. Lets get one more in this series and two against the Jays to close this thing out.
The_Man
Footballguy
Is this real life?
Magic Number down to 5. Orioles give up 1 run in 20 innings, with the starters combining to strike out 17 in 14 scoreless innings.
Buck got every single position player on the roster in the game today, and also didn't use a single reliever twice.
Suspension aside, the last 22 hours have been pretty sweet the Ravens whipping the Steelers and the Orioles sweeping the Yankees.
Magic Number down to 5. Orioles give up 1 run in 20 innings, with the starters combining to strike out 17 in 14 scoreless innings.
Buck got every single position player on the roster in the game today, and also didn't use a single reliever twice.
Suspension aside, the last 22 hours have been pretty sweet the Ravens whipping the Steelers and the Orioles sweeping the Yankees.
