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***Official 2018 Baltimore Orioles Thread*** Pitching Can’t Get Any Worse (3 Viewers)

MattFancy said:
Disappointing way to go out, but I can't complain too much. I don't think any O's fan at the start of the season expected this team to win 96 games, win the division by double digits and make a run to the ALCS. And do all that without Wieters and Machado for a good part of the season, Davis not being the 2013 Chris Davis and Ubaldo pitching like crap.

Getting Machado and Wieters back will be huge for this team. If they can add a top of the rotation starter, they could very well be back in the ALCS next year. Also have to figure we see Bundy and/or Harvey at some point next season as well. The future is bright for this team.
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Condolences on the end of the season. Great attitude here- you're right, this team should be in contention for a while with the core mostly in place, Bundy and Harvey on the way, and now a little more money to spend too thanks to what I assume will be a much bigger season ticket base and better TV ratings. Also I don't see a particularly bright future elsewhere in the AL East, definitely not the annual impediment for Baltimore that it was 5+ years ago.

One point I mentioned earlier, though- are most O's fans of the mindset that the pitching staff's turnaround coinciding pretty much exactly with Wieters' injury was just a weird coincidence? Because I kind of think they're related, and I know some evidence of Wieters' pitch framing problems to back that up, but obviously I don't watch or read about them as much as you all.

 
TobiasFunke said:
MattFancy said:
Disappointing way to go out, but I can't complain too much. I don't think any O's fan at the start of the season expected this team to win 96 games, win the division by double digits and make a run to the ALCS. And do all that without Wieters and Machado for a good part of the season, Davis not being the 2013 Chris Davis and Ubaldo pitching like crap.

Getting Machado and Wieters back will be huge for this team. If they can add a top of the rotation starter, they could very well be back in the ALCS next year. Also have to figure we see Bundy and/or Harvey at some point next season as well. The future is bright for this team.
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Condolences on the end of the season. Great attitude here- you're right, this team should be in contention for a while with the core mostly in place, Bundy and Harvey on the way, and now a little more money to spend too thanks to what I assume will be a much bigger season ticket base and better TV ratings. Also I don't see a particularly bright future elsewhere in the AL East, definitely not the annual impediment for Baltimore that it was 5+ years ago.

One point I mentioned earlier, though- are most O's fans of the mindset that the pitching staff's turnaround coinciding pretty much exactly with Wieters' injury was just a weird coincidence? Because I kind of think they're related, and I know some evidence of Wieters' pitch framing problems to back that up, but obviously I don't watch or read about them as much as you all.
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I honestly didn't even think of that. I don't think it really had much to do with it though. All the pitchers and Buck rave about how Wieters calls a game. I just think the starters finally showed their potential. I mean when the O's got Tillman as part of the Bedard trade with Seattle, he was looked at as being a possible top of the rotation guy, so it's not like him pitching well was unexpected. All those guys on our staff had pitched well in stretches before, just not for as long as they did in the 2nd half of the season.

The worst part is that it really wasn't our pitching that let us down in this series, it was the hitting. We couldn't get the big hits when we needed it. The Royals did and that was the difference.

 
MattFancy said:
TobiasFunke said:
MattFancy said:
Disappointing way to go out, but I can't complain too much. I don't think any O's fan at the start of the season expected this team to win 96 games, win the division by double digits and make a run to the ALCS. And do all that without Wieters and Machado for a good part of the season, Davis not being the 2013 Chris Davis and Ubaldo pitching like crap.

Getting Machado and Wieters back will be huge for this team. If they can add a top of the rotation starter, they could very well be back in the ALCS next year. Also have to figure we see Bundy and/or Harvey at some point next season as well. The future is bright for this team.
Click to expand...
Condolences on the end of the season. Great attitude here- you're right, this team should be in contention for a while with the core mostly in place, Bundy and Harvey on the way, and now a little more money to spend too thanks to what I assume will be a much bigger season ticket base and better TV ratings. Also I don't see a particularly bright future elsewhere in the AL East, definitely not the annual impediment for Baltimore that it was 5+ years ago.

One point I mentioned earlier, though- are most O's fans of the mindset that the pitching staff's turnaround coinciding pretty much exactly with Wieters' injury was just a weird coincidence? Because I kind of think they're related, and I know some evidence of Wieters' pitch framing problems to back that up, but obviously I don't watch or read about them as much as you all.
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I honestly didn't even think of that. I don't think it really had much to do with it though. All the pitchers and Buck rave about how Wieters calls a game. I just think the starters finally showed their potential. I mean when the O's got Tillman as part of the Bedard trade with Seattle, he was looked at as being a possible top of the rotation guy, so it's not like him pitching well was unexpected. All those guys on our staff had pitched well in stretches before, just not for as long as they did in the 2nd half of the season.

The worst part is that it really wasn't our pitching that let us down in this series, it was the hitting. We couldn't get the big hits when we needed it. The Royals did and that was the difference.
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I dunno, seems like quite a coincidence. Os pitching numbers jumped across the board this season with basically the same personnel.

 
An Orioles board I visit looked into this pretty deep. Some numbers went down (most notably era) and some went up. The consensus seemed to be the new pitching coach, Dave Wallace and some of the things he was working with the pitchers on started to materialize when Wieters went down.

 
avoiding injuries said:
An Orioles board I visit looked into this pretty deep. Some numbers went down (most notably era) and some went up. The consensus seemed to be the new pitching coach, Dave Wallace and some of the things he was working with the pitchers on started to materialize when Wieters went down.
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Ah, there's the variable I wasn't accounting for. Thanks.

 
It's a very good question, but I agree with the previous poster about Dave Wallace as well as the bullpen coach Dom Chiti.

Of the top 13 Orioles in innings pitched, O'Day is the oldest at 31. There were a lot of younger guys who were willing to work with the coaches and it made a difference. Apparently Wallace came to spring training this year with a specific plan for every pitcher. For example, for Bud Norris, Wallace's plan was to improve Norris's change-up vs. left-handed hitters, because it addressed his one particular most glaring weakness.

That being said, I expect a long, hard battle next year. Like Bill Parcells said that time after the Jets lost to the Broncos in the AFC Championship, "You don't start next year in the championship game. You start all the way back at the beginning."

Bullpens are notoriously fickle from year to year, with guys following a great season with a terrible one. Miller will be gone - someone will pay him silly money. But if Brach slips back, maybe Webb or Meek will step up. I expect Britton to be outstanding, but O'Day's September was definitely worrisome. Also, the rotation is a little crowded. Ubaldo will obviously have a spot and I think the Orioles feel like they might be able to fix him. I see Norris as potential trade bait - Tillman and Gausman are locks, Chen isn't going anywhere, and Gonzo is nails. And that's even if Bundy still isn't ready - Harvey is a couple of years away, still only 19 and hasn't pitched above Low-A yet.

Signing Hardy was key, as will be Manny's health. Wieters is clearly gone after next year and they won't miss him as much as I thought they might. Davis will probably be gone too - will be interesting to see if they try to deal either one. And I'm now hearing that Markakis is going to be out there chasing a big pay day. He might get the Ray Lewis surprise that nobody else out there values him as much as Baltimore. I'm not sure what was up with him in the playoffs, but he could not run AT ALL. In Game 1, he couldn't have gotten to the 3-RBI bloop, but he could have held it to a 2-RBI double. Except that he wasn't in the same zip code as that ball. And in the late innings on the ball up the gap that KC hustled into a double by beating AJ's strong throw? It was Nick's ball all the way, but Jones got there before him. That play unfolded right in front of me in the bleachers, and I couldn't believe how long it took Markakis to get there.

Fun, fun season. Sorry it's over.

 
The_Man said:
And I'm now hearing that Markakis is going to be out there chasing a big pay day. He might get the Ray Lewis surprise that nobody else out there values him as much as Baltimore.
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Bless him if he can get it, but I'm with you - I'd be shocked if anyone broke the bank to get Markakis at this point.

He doesn't owe Baltimore anything (nor they, he). But I think he stays if the Orioles offer anywhere close (say, within 10-15%) to what his (offered) market value is.

What about Cruz, though? Someone gonna throw #### loads of money at him?

 
Isn't Chen a FA too? He's the pitcher I'd like to make sure comes back. Tillman, Chen, Norris, Gausman and Gonzo is a decent rotation, even thoug there isn't a clear-cut #1 starter.

 
My quick thoughts:

1. Jimenez will be given every chance to get back on track and be a starter. He is almost a lock to start coming out of spring training. He is owed $37.5 M over the next 3 years. With his potential, the Orioles need to work with him at least another year.

2. Buck Showalter has shown he can take a lot of marginal talent and create a team that is much greater than the parts. That is what the Orioles were this year. 96 wins without Weiters and Machado for most of the year.

3. I think Markakis stays an Oriole. He is an older player (30 this year), his skills appear to be declining, but he is a really solid player. It is hard to see anyone paying him big bucks. He is so quite, but his leadership role with the Orioles is well defined. The Orioles are the perfect fit for him

4. Re-signing Cruz could be problematic. Cruz wanted a big contract last year and got burned. People are hearing he wants a 4 year deal. Cruz turns 35 during next season. No way the Orioles step up for 4 years. Maybe not even 3.

5. The following year, Matt Weiters will be a free agent. He will get more than $100M as a free agent. The Orioles are not going to pay it.

6. There is a lot to sort out with Chris Davis. If he has another year like this year, he looks like another Mark Reynolds. It's not clear the Orioles will even want to keep him. If he returns to 2013 form, he could be too expensive for the Orioles to keep.

 
I had just watched the O's at wrigley and was riding the L back to MDW when I heard Machado was out for the rest of the year. At that moment, I said to myself "there goes the season". Now, I know they went on to win the division and sweep DET, but losing him on top of Wieters was too big to absorb and win it all.

Hell, maybe I'm completely wrong bc if Davis is playing I think we take a game or two in the KC series and still have a chance.

We lost 1/3 of our starting defense and those three guys were arguably our best defenders.

Don't mind me, I'm just making excuses over here.

 
Off-season thoughts so far? Sorry to lose Cruz, but not at $58 million for 4 years. That will be a bad deal by sometime in 2016 - and that's the thing about free agents, all it takes is one lunatic to make a terrible offer and there's nothing you can do about it.

In retrospect, getting Hardy signed was so huge. The market for shortstops is thin and there are big-spending teams looking to fill that hole.

It will be very interesting to see what happens with Markakis. If the Braves give him 4 years, then he's probably gone and I can live with that. He looked really worn down by the end of last season and Orioles fans tend to overvalue him because he's white, er, I mean because he's a hard-nosed, gritty, old school ballplayer. It's very interesting - when Ozzie lets a Raven leave for a big bucks free agent payday, people aren't happy, but he and the team have earned the benefit of the doubt. His track record is that the guys who leave virtually never play up to their new contracts. Duquette and Angelos don't get that benefit yet, and people will go mental if Markakis leaves.

But I am willing to give DD the benefit of the doubt. At least until he shows what he's going to do to fill the holes left by Cruz and (maybe) Markakis). De Aza and Lough aren't gonna cut it. Also surprised to see Matusz tendered at $2.4 Million, but that might just be because I hate him.

So excited to see if Gausman makes the leap to legit top of the rotation guy this year, which I am predicting he does. I am still thinking that Bud Norris or Gonzalez are trade bait. Ubaldo is going to be in the rotation - at least to start the season - and I hope Bundy is knocking on the door soon after.

 
The_Man said:
Off-season thoughts so far? Sorry to lose Cruz, but not at $58 million for 4 years. That will be a bad deal by sometime in 2016 - and that's the thing about free agents, all it takes is one lunatic to make a terrible offer and there's nothing you can do about it.

In retrospect, getting Hardy signed was so huge. The market for shortstops is thin and there are big-spending teams looking to fill that hole.

It will be very interesting to see what happens with Markakis. If the Braves give him 4 years, then he's probably gone and I can live with that. He looked really worn down by the end of last season and Orioles fans tend to overvalue him because he's white, er, I mean because he's a hard-nosed, gritty, old school ballplayer. It's very interesting - when Ozzie lets a Raven leave for a big bucks free agent payday, people aren't happy, but he and the team have earned the benefit of the doubt. His track record is that the guys who leave virtually never play up to their new contracts. Duquette and Angelos don't get that benefit yet, and people will go mental if Markakis leaves.

But I am willing to give DD the benefit of the doubt. At least until he shows what he's going to do to fill the holes left by Cruz and (maybe) Markakis). De Aza and Lough aren't gonna cut it. Also surprised to see Matusz tendered at $2.4 Million, but that might just be because I hate him.

So excited to see if Gausman makes the leap to legit top of the rotation guy this year, which I am predicting he does. I am still thinking that Bud Norris or Gonzalez are trade bait. Ubaldo is going to be in the rotation - at least to start the season - and I hope Bundy is knocking on the door soon after.
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Does Weiters have any trade value now coming off the TJ surgery? Or are the O's going to see what he does in the first half of the season and trade him at the deadline?

And an outfield of Pierce/Jones/DeAza leaves me a little cold (and that assumes DeAza can play RF).

 
Ouch. This hurts. Im just talking as a fan, emotional... because at root ain't that really what being a fanatic is about?

Sucks. :kicksrock:

Now, time to move on. 1969 Series Redux!

 
avoiding injuries said:
Wanted Cruz back, I think nick is replaceable, we need to bring miller back.
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Wasn't upset to see Cruz go. At 34, he's ripe for decline. His numbers in the 2nd half of last season really fell off. Sure he played well in the playoffs, but his 2nd half was horrible.

Feel the same about Nick. Was a good guy in the clubhouse and a fan favorite. But, he really hasn't produced at a high level since 2009. He doesn't hit for power and even though he's a "contact" hitter, he still only hit .278 last season. So it's not like he's been great. Defensively he isn't bad, but RF in Camden Yards is a pretty small area to patrol.

Don't see how Miller comes back. He wants big money and to be a closer. He was great for us, but Britton is a much cheaper option at closer and was pretty good in his own right.

Hard to see where they go from here. I can live with losing those guys if we spend the money elsewhere. If we just sit on our hands, I'll be pissed.

 
Well, I understand and even respect the decision to let Nick go. But I can feel that way and still be sad.

That guy never gave less than his full effort, even on a hot August Tuesday night in front of 4,000 fans as the Orioles played out the stretch of another 90-loss season. He never has to apologize to anyone for how he played the game, or how he comported himself as a member of this community. I was proud to be there the night he finally played in a post-season game after all those years of futility.

This, even more than the Hardy slide to score the winning run on Delmon's ALDS 8th inning double, was the defining moment of one of the greatest Orioles seasons of my life - the look on Nick's face at the moment he hears the Public Address guy announce the Orioles as AL East champions.

 
I'm concerned, although Nick's power numbers were down his OBP was the best on the team. I know its still early but we have serious issues to address, a true leadoff hitter and a big stick, preferably an outfielder. I for one am against trading for Matt Kemp

 
Adam Jones in not happy about Nick leaving. That tells me something.

I know Miller wants big money. We aren't paying Britton much. We should pay Miller since we aren't spending a lot on the "closer" position. Besides, if we signed miller, I think there's a good chance he becomes our closer sometime next season.

I am against the Kemp trade too. What I've heard is that it would take Bundy+. Now, I'm not against trading Bundy (how many of our prospects meet expectations?), but I'd like a better piece in return.

Lester would be nice if we can move Ubaldo and/or Norris.

 
Ubaldo is an immovable object. Nobody is going to give you anything for him - at all - and they won't even take him for nothing unless the O's pay 75% of his salary. He is an Oriole for all of 2015 and probably the next 2 years after that.

They're also not signing Miller. Not even trying - he's going to get a 4-year deal and the O's aren't doing that again for a pitcher after the Ubaldo fiasco. I agree that Norris might be the best trade bait we have right now - though maybe he'll be more valuable at the trade deadline.

I'm not too worried about what Jones says. Everyone was furious when they traded Jim Johnson for nothing, and look how that worked out. Duquette is smart and is committed to spending his money the right way. That 3-year, $40 million deal for JJ Hardy is looking like genius right now.

So I'm reserving all judgement until the end of Spring Training, when we see what this team actually is.

 
Jones will be ok, though I understand his disappointment. Nick was his mentor, as well as his friend. I think that's a safety net gone that Adam has long gone past needing, though.

Ok, so who out there is "Orioles-attainable" in a realistic sense?

I'm scared to death of the starting pitching. There is no way in hell those same 5 as a group can repeat the 2nd half of 2014. But if I think that (provided I know what I'm talking about - always iffy), I have to imagine MLB folks know it also. I mean, what are you going to get in a trade for Bud Norris?

 
Always forget that FBG has a separate baseball forum... Anyway, I'm starting to get concerned that the O's aren't going to replace any of the losses. From this list, http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/transactions/free-agents, there are still some candidates out there.

* Mariners rumored to be in the chase for Melky Cabrera. Giants considering as well.

* Orioles and Royals looking at Colby Rasmus? Not terribly impressed here, but defense is supposed to be a strength.

* Mariners, Royals, Indians looking at Alex Rios?

* Orioles have "limited" interest in Nori Aoki? This seems like a better idea than Rasmus to me, although Aoki is supposedly looking for a three year deal.

* Orioles, Rangers looking at Michael Morse?

* Delmon Young still a possibility?

 
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Rich Conway said:
Always forget that FBG has a separate baseball forum... Anyway, I'm starting to get concerned that the O's aren't going to replace any of the losses. From this list, http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/transactions/free-agents, there are still some candidates out there.

* Mariners rumored to be in the chase for Melky Cabrera. Giants considering as well.

* Orioles and Royals looking at Colby Rasmus? Not terribly impressed here, but defense is supposed to be a strength.

* Mariners, Royals, Indians looking at Alex Rios?

* Orioles have "limited" interest in Nori Aoki? This seems like a better idea than Rasmus to me, although Aoki is supposedly looking for a three year deal.

* Orioles, Rangers looking at Michael Morse?

* Delmon Young still a possibility?
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Starting to run out of options. Remaining free agent outfielders appear to be down to Rasmus, Aoki, Bonifacio, and Delmon Young?

 
I got a SWEET Orioles hoodie with "Baltimore" in the old styly diagonal font for X-mas.

(Gonna be a long year, huh. Or will the young guys lead the way...)

 
Wtf is up with Toronto trying to pull DD away? I'm not as much worried about Dan leaving, but with a lot of the organizational people he's put in place leaving with him.

 
Rich Conway said:
Rich Conway said:
Always forget that FBG has a separate baseball forum... Anyway, I'm starting to get concerned that the O's aren't going to replace any of the losses. From this list, http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/transactions/free-agents, there are still some candidates out there.

* Mariners rumored to be in the chase for Melky Cabrera. Giants considering as well.

* Orioles and Royals looking at Colby Rasmus? Not terribly impressed here, but defense is supposed to be a strength.

* Mariners, Royals, Indians looking at Alex Rios?

* Orioles have "limited" interest in Nori Aoki? This seems like a better idea than Rasmus to me, although Aoki is supposedly looking for a three year deal.

* Orioles, Rangers looking at Michael Morse?

* Delmon Young still a possibility?
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Starting to run out of options. Remaining free agent outfielders appear to be down to Rasmus, Aoki, Bonifacio, and Delmon Young?
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I am not particularly worried.

Showalter/Duquette have a model where they bring in a bunch of people (minor leaguers, vets on minor league contracts) and they compete for spots. One or more will have breakout years. The Nelson Cruz signing last year was the aberration.

The Orioles also tend to go with younger players with options, so if they start to underperform, they can be sent to the minors.

 
Aoki signed with the Giants for $4M, one year. I can't see how the Orioles couldn't have gotten something done there. They've lost a lot of offense that it appears they aren't planning to replace. The talk is still that the Os are chasing Rasmus, but I can't see that as preferable to Aoki.

 
Really disappointing offseason for the O's.

I was fine with losing Cruz, Markakis and Miller as long as we got some guys to replace them. We've stood pat all offseason while other contenders have gotten better.

Then the whole mess with Duquette doesn't help.

Just very disappointed to see the team not try and improve off of a geat 2014 season.

 
If the team signed Hardy in the offseason instead of the playoffs, I think we view it a little differently.

I agree not adding pieces is very frustrating, but Davis, machado and Weiters will make nice additions. (I hate having to rationalize things like this, but it is what it is).

 
In 2012 and 2013, the Orioles were very content to go into the season with a number of weaknesses and give minor leaguers and fringe players a chance to shine. If they do not, they will aggressively trade for pieces that will help them out.

2014 was more of the exception when they brought in Jimenez and Cruz and the very end of the off season. I don't expect them to do that again this year.

It may not be pretty in the beginning, but expect Delmon Young, Alehandra D'Aza, David Lough, Henry Urrutia, and Danial Alvarez to get lots of opportunities to make a big impact on the Orioles this year. Of that group, we need a starting OF (Jones and Pearce are the other starters) and a DH.

 
MattFancy said:
Really disappointing offseason for the O's.

I was fine with losing Cruz, Markakis and Miller as long as we got some guys to replace them. We've stood pat all offseason while other contenders have gotten better.

Then the whole mess with Duquette doesn't help.

Just very disappointed to see the team not try and improve off of a geat 2014 season.
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Given the contracts that were handed out in December, it may take some patience on O's fans, but this may be a benefit in the long term. I get it, baseball is raking in the dough right now, but that doesn't mean spending like you just hit the lotto is the right move.

 
Marvelous said:
In 2012 and 2013, the Orioles were very content to go into the season with a number of weaknesses and give minor leaguers and fringe players a chance to shine. If they do not, they will aggressively trade for pieces that will help them out.

2014 was more of the exception when they brought in Jimenez and Cruz and the very end of the off season. I don't expect them to do that again this year.

It may not be pretty in the beginning, but expect Delmon Young, Alehandra D'Aza, David Lough, Henry Urrutia, and Danial Alvarez to get lots of opportunities to make a big impact on the Orioles this year. Of that group, we need a starting OF (Jones and Pearce are the other starters) and a DH.
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it is DARIEL Alvarez and it looks like he has passed Urrutia on current Oriole outfield pecking order. And is certainly a better hitter than Lough

 
I don't think throwing, say, five million for one year at Aoki would quite qualify as spending like they hit the lotto. I don't think anyone expected them to resign Cruz to a four year megadeal, but they could have signed someone competent.

I fully expect Pearce to regress back towards his career stats, which would leave them missing three bats in total. Even one moderately priced free agent could have helped.

 
Rich Conway said:
I don't think throwing, say, five million for one year at Aoki would quite qualify as spending like they hit the lotto. I don't think anyone expected them to resign Cruz to a four year megadeal, but they could have signed someone competent.

I fully expect Pearce to regress back towards his career stats, which would leave them missing three bats in total. Even one moderately priced free agent could have helped.
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Looking at some stats, the one that jumps out is that Aoki is 33 years old.

They can probably pick up a player like Aoki at the trade deadline if they need to. Until then, the Orioles will give the guys they already have a chance.

 
avoiding injuries said:
Hey Dan, thanks for your service, but it's time for you to go.

I would love Hoffman in return (speculated by Ken Rosenthal), but I doubt it happens.
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It will be hard to keep Duquette if he wants to leave. I am not clear how the Blue Jays can want Duquette so much and be ready to offer him a job without any tampering.

 
I don't really understand Angelos' thinking. I get he would start by asking for the world (reportedly Hoffman AND Pentecost AND Nay) but reality there is precedent in MLB for allowing executives to leave for promotions, and there is precedent that the compensation will be a mid level prospect (Epstein) or replacement level player (Farrell).

Now Angelos has a guy he knows would rather be elsewhere in a major position, and nothing to show for it at all.

 
There are reports that Dan went to the winter meetings for 10 years trying to meet with executives for a job. Sometimes sitting in the lobby and hallways by himself waiting for people to walk by. Along come the Orioles and give him the opportunity to get back into baseball he was seeking for so long. A couple successful years (built off of Andy Mcphail's moves), a lucrative contract extension and all of a sudden he wants to leave for a position that isn't quite open or defined with a division rival?

Also, didn't Toronto ask the White Sox for their permission to talk with Kenny Williams and were denied. Doesn't sound like they even bothered to ask the Orioles for their permission. I guess I don't understand the rules of tampering.

Regardless, Dan could have easily squashed this like Kenny Williams did. But he didn't. And now we have him for the next few years. Fan Fest is this Saturday. I hope he gives some type of answers to the fans.

 
avoiding injuries said:
There are reports that Dan went to the winter meetings for 10 years trying to meet with executives for a job. Sometimes sitting in the lobby and hallways by himself waiting for people to walk by. Along come the Orioles and give him the opportunity to get back into baseball he was seeking for so long. A couple successful years (built off of Andy Mcphail's moves), a lucrative contract extension and all of a sudden he wants to leave for a position that isn't quite open or defined with a division rival?

Also, didn't Toronto ask the White Sox for their permission to talk with Kenny Williams and were denied. Doesn't sound like they even bothered to ask the Orioles for their permission. I guess I don't understand the rules of tampering.

Regardless, Dan could have easily squashed this like Kenny Williams did. But he didn't. And now we have him for the next few years. Fan Fest is this Saturday. I hope he gives some type of answers to the fans.
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In my opinion, Buck Showalter is the genius behind the Orioles resurgence. Duquette is going a good job, but Showalter is the engine driving this train. And Duquette now looks much more desirable after working with Buck.

If Duquette were to leave, I am sure Buck will find someone to replace him and do a good job. And the Orioles' GM job looks a lot more attractive than it did a few years ago.

 
Northern Voice said:
I don't really understand Angelos' thinking. I get he would start by asking for the world (reportedly Hoffman AND Pentecost AND Nay) but reality there is precedent in MLB for allowing executives to leave for promotions, and there is precedent that the compensation will be a mid level prospect (Epstein) or replacement level player (Farrell).

Now Angelos has a guy he knows would rather be elsewhere in a major position, and nothing to show for it at all.
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Baseball is full of guys under contract who think the grass is greener somewhere else.

I think if another team courts one of your employees who is under contract without permission, you should ask for the moon.

 
Marvelous said:
Northern Voice said:
I don't really understand Angelos' thinking. I get he would start by asking for the world (reportedly Hoffman AND Pentecost AND Nay) but reality there is precedent in MLB for allowing executives to leave for promotions, and there is precedent that the compensation will be a mid level prospect (Epstein) or replacement level player (Farrell).

Now Angelos has a guy he knows would rather be elsewhere in a major position, and nothing to show for it at all.
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Baseball is full of guys under contract who think the grass is greener somewhere else.

I think if another team courts one of your employees who is under contract without permission, you should ask for the moon.
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Sure, but your dealing with a team who only got Mike Aviles when their manager made a lateral move. The Epstein scenario may be more applicable but the compensation there was the bad Chris Carpenter. To ask for a teams two most recent first round picks is basically just denying your employee the opportunity to go to a better job. Obviously Angelos doesn't care about the past precedents and that's his prerogative, im just not sure he creates a great situation for himself by doing it.

 
It's mostly fluff, but cool article on ESPN by Kurkijan about Adam Jones. I can't figure out hot to link from this device :bag:

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Hey Orioles fans, super job last season! Don't worry, Chris Davis is going to be fine. Watch out, 75 win barrier!
Click to expand...
Does this mean the Orioles are finally good enough to warrant other teams' fans visiting our thread to talk smack? Very exciting!

While you're here, be sure not to step in any of that giant steaming pile Ubaldo left on the mound yesterday!

 
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