***Official*** 2019 State of the Union Thread (1 Viewer)

[Lutherman2112]

so you're saying he got no leverage

 

[rockaction]

so you're saying he got no leverage

Yep.  

 

[tonydead]

You're having a rough go of it today, huh?

He's being forced to write two or three sentences instead of blasting "blatant falsehood".   Makes it much harder to keep up with the hall monitoring.  

 

[tonydead]

Rockaction began his comments in this thread by stating that there were no lies in the speech.

But that's not really the point. It's not that Trump lies, it's what he lies about. In this case, he is lying in order to push a racist idea: that Mexicans cross our borders and bring violent crime and drugs. To be outraged by that lie is not anti-Trump hysteria. It's pushing back against bigotry.

Mexicans don't cross our boarder and bring crime and drugs?  The Mexican cartels are responsible for 90% of the cocaine in our country.  What planet do you live on?

 

[tonydead]

FBI stats show that viloent crime went down in El Paso from a peak of 6500 per month in 1992 to a low of 2500 in 2006 and has stayed almost flat since then. This mirrors NYC and most cities in America. The Bush fence went up in 2008. Source: el paso times, 10Jan2019.

Trump's comments were misleading at best.

You're complete ignoring the efforts the border patrol put forth in the 90s and early 00s to keep the cartel at bay until the government decided, Dems included, that a better fence would help and was needed.  All just to jet your Trump gotcha. You all can't the forest through the trees because you have your Trump blinders on. That's pretty representative of the Dems failures in a nutshell. 

 

[Dickies]

Mexicans don't cross our boarder and bring crime and drugs?  The Mexican cartels are responsible for 90% of the cocaine in our country.  What planet do you live on?

Since they already drive it through walled areas a more effective solution would be to legalize drugs

 

[timschochet]

Mexicans don't cross our boarder and bring crime and drugs?  The Mexican cartels are responsible for 90% of the cocaine in our country.  What planet do you live on?

Trump is referring to Mexican immigrants, both documented and undocumented, along with refugees from South America seeking asylum. He groups all of these people, most of whom are innocent victims,  in with the gangs and cartels. That’s the bigoted part. A wall will do nothing to stop the cartels. 

But you know all of this already. 

 

[tonydead]

Since they already drive it through walled areas a more effective solution would be to legalize drugs

Go ahead and legalise phentynal?  I'm an old hippie and generally all for legalisation. But, these aren't the same drugs we grew up with. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

IF THERE IS GOING TO BE PEACE, THERE CANNOT BE WAR.

IF THERE IS GOING TO BE LEGISLATION, THERE CANNOT BE INVESTIGATION.
 

My favorite part of this year's SotU speech.

"That's a nice country you have there. Be a shame if anything ever happened to it."

 

[tonydead]

Trump is referring to Mexican immigrants, both documented and undocumented, along with refugees from South America seeking asylum. He groups all of these people, most of whom are innocent victims,  in with the gangs and cartels. That’s the bigoted part. A wall will do nothing to stop the cartels. 

But you know all of this already. 

Vacation a few days in El Paso and then a couple in Ciudad Juarez and let me know if you still think it's a good idea if we tear down the fence. Your rhetoric is just Trump opposite. Dems need to stop that #### or you're no better than him and the American people aren't dumb. You really want to run on but Trump, or do you want to take an educated stance on the issues?  

 

[Dickies]

Go ahead and legalise phentynal?  I'm an old hippie and generally all for legalisation. But, these aren't the same drugs we grew up with. 

Yes

 

[rockaction]

Go ahead and legalise phentynal?  I'm an old hippie and generally all for legalisation. But, these aren't the same drugs we grew up with. 

I'm also for legalizing almost all drugs. But I know two people now who have died from fentynal. Scary stuff. 

 

[The Dude]

My favorite part of this year's SotU speech.

"That's a nice country you have there. Be a shame if anything ever happened to it."

Just like the shutdown, he is stating he is going to hold the country hostage

 

[timschochet]

Vacation a few days in El Paso and then a couple in Ciudad Juarez and let me know if you still think it's a good idea if we tear down the fence. Your rhetoric is just Trump opposite. Dems need to stop that #### or you're no better than him and the American people aren't dumb. You really want to run on but Trump, or do you want to take an educated stance on the issues?  

What’s really sad is that you think the causes of violence in Juarez is that they’re just a bunch of savages down there and they need to be locked away from us. It has nothing to do with the corrupt police, corrupt officials, right? It’s fhe people themselves; open the gates and they’ll surge in like barbarians and rape and kill us. Pathetic. 

 

[tonydead]

What’s really sad is that you think the causes of violence in Juarez is that they’re just a bunch of savages down there and they need to be locked away from us. It has nothing to do with the corrupt police, corrupt officials, right? It’s fhe people themselves; open the gates and they’ll surge in like barbarians and rape and kill us. Pathetic. 

As much as you try to make this a race issue, it's not.  The root cause is money, as I previous stated: the Mexican Cartels sprang to life in the 90's after the big Colombian Cartels fell leaving a void for the multi billion dollar drug supply into the US.

I'm sure there are corrupt officials in Mexico because of that money, but, the facts are the Mexican government started using military in 2006 to at least try and deal with the problem  And then in 2008, at the same time the newly improved border fence was being constructed, the US Government gave them 1.6 billion dollars to help.

And yes, if not checked at the border the Cartels would freely move across.  That's pretty much the very definition of border control.  

The root cause of your problem Tim is that you are conflating two distinct problems; keeping or citizens safe and helping migrants.  Your heart strings tug at the innocent people in Mexico that might want to get away from the Cartels.  If you just "open the gates" you simultaneously do it for the Cartels too.  Migrants should be applying for asylum, and if that process isn't working good enough for you then spend your time crying out against that process, not at our border fences that keep our border cities safe.