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***Official 2020 Michigan Football*** (3 Viewers)

Keerock said:
Wait... HE should be ashamed???  I think UM/Harbaugh should be ashamed that a grad would resort to that!
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Of course he should be ashamed. He is responsible for his own actions.

As a MI grad, he should have certain moral standards. To throw them all away for the pursuit of football wins is shameful.

 
General Malaise said:
Counterpoints:

1)  His offense is averaging 3.5 yards per rush (and that includes the creampuff opener).  Not sure how evolved that is.

2)  DJ Durkin had a kid die on his watch in what has been called a 'toxic culture'.  Eesh.
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Oh - the offense has been horrific. No question. But I think he's still trying to evolve. Just doing a ####ty job of it.

And yea - I'm certainly not going to defend Durkin.

 
Just seems surprising to me that he never reached lift off at UM.  I thought that was the perfect marriage.  The more I watch him, though, the more I'm convinced that his act begins to have diminishing returns.  I could easily see him taking the Dolphins job if offered.

 
General Malaise said:
Just seems surprising to me that he never reached lift off at UM.  I thought that was the perfect marriage.  The more I watch him, though, the more I'm convinced that his act begins to have diminishing returns.  I could easily see him taking the Dolphins job if offered.
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That's interesting for two reasons:

1) Would Harbaugh leave MI without accomplishing what he set out to do? And with people thinking his tenure has been a failure? Maybe. But I lean towards no. Pure guess, obviously.

2) Would Stephen Ross take Harbaugh away from MI? Again, I kind of doubt it, but maybe. (Ross is a MI grad and huge donor).

 
whoknew said:
That's interesting for two reasons:

1) Would Harbaugh leave MI without accomplishing what he set out to do? And with people thinking his tenure has been a failure? Maybe. But I lean towards no. Pure guess, obviously.

2) Would Stephen Ross take Harbaugh away from MI? Again, I kind of doubt it, but maybe. (Ross is a MI grad and huge donor).
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I guess it boils down to how much patience Michigan has with Harbaugh coupled with how much frustration Harbaugh might feel after this season.  Michigan could turn things around - Wisconsin is a damn good team; no shame losing that one, but it wasn't really competitive - but outside of a 'get well' game vs Rutgers, the road ahead is incredibly difficult.  What's the mental state of the program and coach if say on Nov. 1, Michigan is 4-4 (they face Iowa, Notre Dame and Penn State in Oct - DAMN!)?  

Ross has to be thinking about another coach to resuscitate his moribund franchise.  Brian Flores ain't it.  I would think come November, he'll be poking around for a guy to tutor whatever QB they take in the 2020 draft (I sure hope it's not Herbert; tired of watching Oregon QBs fail at the next level).  

 
whoknew said:
Of course he should be ashamed. He is responsible for his own actions.

As a MI grad, he should have certain moral standards. To throw them all away for the pursuit of football wins is shameful.
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The US took Nazi scientists after WWII to help us win the Cold War. Blouse-wearing poodle walkers like you are the reason umich might go 6-6. Well, you and Harbargh.

Les is more

 
General Malaise said:
I guess it boils down to how much patience Michigan has with Harbaugh coupled with how much frustration Harbaugh might feel after this season.  Michigan could turn things around - Wisconsin is a damn good team; no shame losing that one, but it wasn't really competitive - but outside of a 'get well' game vs Rutgers, the road ahead is incredibly difficult.  What's the mental state of the program and coach if say on Nov. 1, Michigan is 4-4 (they face Iowa, Notre Dame and Penn State in Oct - DAMN!)?  

Ross has to be thinking about another coach to resuscitate his moribund franchise.  Brian Flores ain't it.  I would think come November, he'll be poking around for a guy to tutor whatever QB they take in the 2020 draft (I sure hope it's not Herbert; tired of watching Oregon QBs fail at the next level).  
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You are right.They could be 4-4. I mean - I'd like to think they have too much talent to lose all three of those games, but with the way they looked v Wisconsin, who knows?

Having said that, I do not believe that Harbaugh will be fired. For three reasons - a) He's a MI legend with an accomplished coaching record, b) He's done ok so far at MI, and c) Warde Manual (the AD) doesn't seem like a pull the rip cord quickly kind of guy. He seems much more reserved and willing to ride with Harbaugh.

But I could absolutely be wrong, of course.

 
He did lose some valuable pieces on defense to the NFL.  Devin Bush Jr. is looking like he'll walk away with the DROY in Pitt and Rashan Gary broke out against the Raiders.  Hard to replace talent like that.  Plus, Winovich and David Long...maybe he will have a longer leash than the rest of us think.  That's a ton of talent that left his program.

 
General Malaise said:
He did lose some valuable pieces on defense to the NFL.  Devin Bush Jr. is looking like he'll walk away with the DROY in Pitt and Rashan Gary broke out against the Raiders.  Hard to replace talent like that.  Plus, Winovich and David Long...maybe he will have a longer leash than the rest of us think.  That's a ton of talent that left his program.
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I said up thread (or maybe in the CFB thread) that it's pretty clear Michigan is NOT at "next man up" status on defense like people thought...I think that much is clear.  I think the defense will improve faster than the offense though.  The one thing missing thus far in the Harbaugh tenure is consistency on offense.  Now, it's magnified 10 fold by the installation of a completely different offense that Harbaugh dragged his feet on changing.

 
Oh....I forgot...I need the MSU update on whether or not Harbaugh did his interview or podcast or tv show or whatever it was that would likely get missed this week because of the "L"...did that go down or no?  That's what I came in expecting to see in the "explosion" of posts (comparatively speaking) yet I was left disappointed :kicksrock:  

 
How about thinking outside the box.  Ross hires Harbaugh in Miami as it does seem he is better suited for the NFL game, then brings in Urban Meyer to Michigan.  Meyer was said to be miffed at how OSU handled his situation last season.

 
Da Guru said:
How about thinking outside the box.  Ross hires Harbaugh in Miami as it does seem he is better suited for the NFL game, then brings in Urban Meyer to Michigan.  Meyer was said to be miffed at how OSU handled his situation last season.
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There is a 0% chance MI would ever hire Urban Meyer. Never. Ever. Ever.

No ####### way.

 
technicaldifficulties said:
I mean, i do agree and support that. But, how do you handle the depths of despair this program is in. And, who is gonna be the one to fix it? Can we hire Tom Brady when he turns 46 and retires from the NFL?
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First - as I mentioned above - its not in complete despair. Its certainly not where I want it to be, but going 10-3 most years is not a program in complete despair. 

Tennessee is in complete despair. Michigan is just not as good as we all hoped.

I would not fire Harbaugh. I would give him at least one more year after this one. At least.

 
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whoknew said:
First - as I mentioned above - its not in complete despair. Its certainly not where I want it to be, but going 10-3 most years is not a program in complete despair. 

Tennessee is in complete despair. Michigan is just not as good as we all hoped.

I would not fire Harbaugh. I would give him at least one more year after this one. At least.
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Would be shocked if M ever"fires" Harbaugh.   Harbaugh might leave to take an NFL job on his own if he feels he can`t get it done. After 4 full seasons not sure how well suited he is for todays college game.

 
whoknew said:
First - as I mentioned above - its not in complete despair. Its certainly not where I want it to be, but going 10-3 most years is not a program in complete despair. 

Tennessee is in complete despair. Michigan is just not as good as we all hoped.

I would not fire Harbaugh. I would give him at least one more year after this one. At least.
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Isn't that what got Lloyd Carr fired or am I not remembering well?

 
It's a good thing Michigan plays my alma mater next.  One of Rutgers' specialties is helping teams bounce back after a tough loss.

 
Keerock said:
Yep, it's part of being a college coach for sure... but you have to admit the program history helps.  YOU mentioned flukes two times in your arguments... I'm just saying you're making a lot of excuses for him.

Listen, you can defend him and please do keep him on as a head coach forever as far as I'm concerned.  My point is... he's not doing what he's being paid to do.  It all falls on him and I'm afraid he's running out of lives.  But I hope not.
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Awesome stuff in here Keerock

 
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General Malaise said:
He did lose some valuable pieces on defense to the NFL.  Devin Bush Jr. is looking like he'll walk away with the DROY in Pitt and Rashan Gary broke out against the Raiders.  Hard to replace talent like that.  Plus, Winovich and David Long...maybe he will have a longer leash than the rest of us think.  That's a ton of talent that left his program.
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Not about the talent.  Michigan has better WRs and TEs than most programs yet can`t utilize them. If you read about the Josh Gattis hire it is disturbing.  Bama did not want Gattis as OC, coaches that left Bama to become HCs did not want Gattis as OC yet Harbaugh hired him after a 20 minute phone interview and had him a contract the same day.  No face to face, what is your plan ,what is your philosophy, how will you attack certain defenses, tempo.   Michigan offense right now is in total disarray. They can`t even get the plays in before 10 seconds left on play clock.

At one point in the Wisconsin game the TOP was Wisconsin 33 minutes, Michigan 9 minutes. No defense can hold up being on the field that long.

 
Da Guru said:
Not about the talent.  Michigan has better WRs and TEs than most programs yet can`t utilize them. If you read about the Josh Gattis hire it is disturbing.  Bama did not want Gattis as OC, coaches that left Bama to become HCs did not want Gattis as OC yet Harbaugh hired him after a 20 minute phone interview and had him a contract the same day.  No face to face, what is your plan ,what is your philosophy, how will you attack certain defenses, tempo.   Michigan offense right now is in total disarray. They can`t even get the plays in before 10 seconds left on play clock.

At one point in the Wisconsin game the TOP was Wisconsin 33 minutes, Michigan 9 minutes. No defense can hold up being on the field that long.
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I thought he was going to MD to become Locksley's OC before Harbaugh swooped in. No?

 
whoknew said:
I thought he was going to MD to become Locksley's OC before Harbaugh swooped in. No?
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Locksley said it was never a done deal.  Speculation was that Gattis played Harbaugh into thinking he was offered the OC at Maryland and a quick decision needed to be made.     Guess it really does not matter at this point as M will sink or swim with Gattis.  Right now the offense can`t get any worse, they can only get better.

 
more play like that from the LB position please....and did I see some zone on defense? :jawdrop:   That's something they'll desperately need to execute well with faster spread teams moving forward.  Hopefully they learned that from the OSU fiasco last year.  They don't have enough speed at CB to cover all those guys.  Legit test coming this week..hope they don't fail this one too.

 
Da Guru said:
Not about the talent.  Michigan has better WRs and TEs than most programs yet can`t utilize them. If you read about the Josh Gattis hire it is disturbing.  Bama did not want Gattis as OC, coaches that left Bama to become HCs did not want Gattis as OC yet Harbaugh hired him after a 20 minute phone interview and had him a contract the same day.  No face to face, what is your plan ,what is your philosophy, how will you attack certain defenses, tempo.   Michigan offense right now is in total disarray. They can`t even get the plays in before 10 seconds left on play clock.

At one point in the Wisconsin game the TOP was Wisconsin 33 minutes, Michigan 9 minutes. No defense can hold up being on the field that long.
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Boy I am probably the last person to defend Jesus Harbaugh but this is a bit disingenuous.  Harbaugh knew Gattis and his game plan.  This is being presented like Jimbo just pulled this guy out of thin air without a single clue about how he coaches or his philosophy.  That's just not true at all.

Go green

 
supermike80 said:
Boy I am probably the last person to defend Jesus Harbaugh but this is a bit disingenuous.  Harbaugh knew Gattis and his game plan.  This is being presented like Jimbo just pulled this guy out of thin air without a single clue about how he coaches or his philosophy.  That's just not true at all.

Go green
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Pete Thamel from Yahoo Sports reported this as did others.

Harbaugh’s most recent glaring negligence came with hiring the inexperienced Josh Gattis from Alabama in the offseason to both run the offense and overhaul the program’s pro-style DNA. The early results are a distinct failure, as Michigan managed just 14 points in regulation against Army and 14 against Wisconsin. By the time the Wolverines scored against Wisconsin, they trailed 35-0.

Gattis’ early struggles should be pinned squarely on Harbaugh. The offseason coronation of Gattis as a great hire included these delicious details in a story in The Athletic – “There was no interview. No face-to-face meeting. No get-up-on-the-board-and-show-me-how-you-run-this session. Not even a tell-me-about-your-offensive-philosophy discussion.”

Harbaugh basically put the future of the program on a 20-minute phone conversation, which is a bit like getting engaged after the first drink on a first date. And he did it knowing that Nick Saban had an opportunity to promote Gattis to the same job and declined. That’s impulsive and reckless even by Harbaugh’s standards, and was begging for more skepticism from an athletic director and administration who’d already seen a pattern of bad hires and dysfunctional offenses.

The only thing more bizarre about Harbaugh making a decision this important in this manner was bragging about it.

When asked directly after the game if he had any concerns about Gattis as a play caller, Harbaugh said: “Uhhhhh no.”

 
Da Guru said:
Pete Thamel from Yahoo Sports reported this as did others.

Harbaugh’s most recent glaring negligence came with hiring the inexperienced Josh Gattis from Alabama in the offseason to both run the offense and overhaul the program’s pro-style DNA. The early results are a distinct failure, as Michigan managed just 14 points in regulation against Army and 14 against Wisconsin. By the time the Wolverines scored against Wisconsin, they trailed 35-0.

Gattis’ early struggles should be pinned squarely on Harbaugh. The offseason coronation of Gattis as a great hire included these delicious details in a story in The Athletic – “There was no interview. No face-to-face meeting. No get-up-on-the-board-and-show-me-how-you-run-this session. Not even a tell-me-about-your-offensive-philosophy discussion.”

Harbaugh basically put the future of the program on a 20-minute phone conversation, which is a bit like getting engaged after the first drink on a first date. And he did it knowing that Nick Saban had an opportunity to promote Gattis to the same job and declined. That’s impulsive and reckless even by Harbaugh’s standards, and was begging for more skepticism from an athletic director and administration who’d already seen a pattern of bad hires and dysfunctional offenses.

The only thing more bizarre about Harbaugh making a decision this important in this manner was bragging about it.

When asked directly after the game if he had any concerns about Gattis as a play caller, Harbaugh said: “Uhhhhh no.”
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Missing point, again.  Harbaugh knew who he was...wasn't like someone said "Hey check out this Gattis guy" and Harbaugh hired him without knowing even a little bit about him. 

There are people in my industry I know about and know what they do.  If I had an opening and I knew they were available, the conversation could be about 20 minutes long and I would hire them in a heartbeat.   

 
supermike80 said:
Missing point, again.  Harbaugh knew who he was...wasn't like someone said "Hey check out this Gattis guy" and Harbaugh hired him without knowing even a little bit about him. 

There are people in my industry I know about and know what they do.  If I had an opening and I knew they were available, the conversation could be about 20 minutes long and I would hire them in a heartbeat.   
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Not really, being the OC and DC are the most important positions on the staff other than the HC. The HCs job usually depends on these 2 coaches ability. Gattis never called plays before nor had full control of an offense.

Most of these types of hires for a potentially top 10 program require 1-2 full days of face to face talks, film dissection,  philosophy and how are we going to totally revamp the offense. 

As one of the highest paid assistants in the country I do hope he succeeds but right now the offense looks lost.

 
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Da Guru said:
Not really, being the OC and DC are the most important positions on the staff other than the HC. The HCs job usually depends on these 2 coaches ability. Gattis never called plays before nor had full control of an offense.

Most of these types of hires for a potentially top 10 program require 1-2 full days of face to face talks, film dissection,  philosophy and how are we going to totally revamp the offense. 

I do hope he succeeds but right now the offense looks lost.
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Oh there's no question the offense looks lost.  I'm not saying it was a good hire, I'm saying Harbaugh knew more about the guy than what he got in a 20 minute phone call.  That's all.

Michigan still sucks, will lose at home to Iowa this weekend, and Harbaugh is still a colossal loser.  😛

Go White

 
supermike80 said:
Oh there's no question the offense looks lost.  I'm not saying it was a good hire, I'm saying Harbaugh knew more about the guy than what he got in a 20 minute phone call.  That's all.

Michigan still sucks, will lose at home to Iowa this weekend, and Harbaugh is still a colossal loser.  😛

Go White
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Maybe you are right and the all the articles and writers are incorrect.   Time will tell.

 
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supermike80 said:
One writer...remember..Just one....Everyone else is referring to the Atlantic article.  
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Harbaugh kinda confirmed it.

“Found out through the grapevine that Josh was considering leaving Alabama to go to Maryland so we reached out and asked if he had any interest in Michigan. I called him at 10am and by 3:00pm he was coming to Michigan with a signed Memorandum of Understanding,” Harbaugh said in his first public comments since the Gattis hiring, via The Michigan Insider.

“

 
Da Guru said:
Harbaugh kinda confirmed it.

“Found out through the grapevine that Josh was considering leaving Alabama to go to Maryland so we reached out and asked if he had any interest in Michigan. I called him at 10am and by 3:00pm he was coming to Michigan with a signed Memorandum of Understanding,” Harbaugh said in his first public comments since the Gattis hiring, via The Michigan Insider.

“
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I think we are not connecting here.   I'm not disputing the 20 minute phone call.    We agree on that one.

 
I don't know what to say about Shea anymore. He won't pull the ball. He won't throw to the WRs down the field. 

I don't know, man. Hard to believe the offense is this bad with all the talent they have.

 
whoknew said:
I don't know what to say about Shea anymore. He won't pull the ball. He won't throw to the WRs down the field. 

I don't know, man. Hard to believe the offense is this bad with all the talent they have.
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Come in half way through the second quarter.  What's caught me off guard is the changes in the defense.  Glad to see DB has it in him :thumbup:  

 
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