***Official - 2024 Major League Baseball Thread - Royals Stink Now Since I Posted About It. I Suck At This *** (4 Viewers)

[Gally]

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

The steroid era isn't the reason there were "freaks" as you state. It's the whole mentality of how to pitch and what you are trying to do. Back then starting pitchers worked within their mechanics and didn't maximize everything to gain velocity to the point of breaking. That is what is happening now. A completely different mentality.

It is not about comparing pitchers today to Nolan Ryan. It is about the entire mechanics/outcome of pitching is different now in an attempt to maximize velocity. Pitchers don't pitch anymore. They throw. The stresses they put on their elbows in an attempt to squeeze out every last bit of velocity is the problem. Steroids wouldn't change that even if they were allowed. In fact, they would probably contribute to more injuries because the UCL still won't be able to withstand the torque it is being put through.

 

[Gally]

I think it is less an issue of # of pitches and steroids than it is the types of pitches and effort per pitch. Guys are torquing their elbows to insane degrees to get their spin rates up and more movement and velocity on each pitch. I don't know how you tell a young pitcher to be 20% less effective to increase his longevity like pitchers did back in the day, people just aren't going to go for that.

This is exactly correct. Max effort/stress on every pitch to gain velo is the issue.

It's sad because high school kids that can pitch with movement, sequencing, and command don't get any looks for big college programs because all they want are mid to high 90's guys. If you sit mid to high 80's you won't get a look. It's really sad.

 

[Todem]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

 

[General Malaise]

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

The steroid era isn't the reason there were "freaks" as you state. It's the whole mentality of how to pitch and what you are trying to do. Back then starting pitchers worked within their mechanics and didn't maximize everything to gain velocity to the point of breaking. That is what is happening now. A completely different mentality.

It is not about comparing pitchers today to Nolan Ryan. It is about the entire mechanics/outcome of pitching is different now in an attempt to maximize velocity. Pitchers don't pitch anymore. They throw. The stresses they put on their elbows in an attempt to squeeze out every last bit of velocity is the problem. Steroids wouldn't change that even if they were allowed. In fact, they would probably contribute to more injuries because the UCL still won't be able to withstand the torque it is being put through.

But the HGH WOULD allow them to recover faster and continue. That's why Roger was just one of many to abuse them. So if you want me to edit my statement to read "human growth hormones and PEDs" instead of "Steroids" I will, but we both know players abused them then and Roger is just one example.

 

[General Malaise]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

We had a congressional ****ing hearing on steroids in 2003 or so, but yeah, sure I'm over stating.

Look, if you can't enjoy what players like Shohei, Acuna, Tatis, et al are doing today and you much prefer the glory days, that's fine. To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

Playoff baseball is incredible today - if you don't like it as much as 80s baseball, fine. I think it's amazing TV.

 

[Dickies]

Well jeez Nolan did that….often. Threw it hard as a mofo……

He threw as hard a a mofo but within his natural motion and effort profile. He didn't have to maximize every fiber of his being to max out his velocity causing his UCL to be the weak link and pop. He stayed within himself and had good mechanics. He naturally pitched to that velocity so it didn't overstress is body. Big difference between him and how guys throw these days.

There was a 12 year old in my son's Little League that blew up his elbow this season pitching and they are speculating that he will never pitch again in his life. Makes me question if the mechanics they are teaching these days to squeeze out extra velocity are sustainable for the human body.

 

[Todem]

Well jeez Nolan did that….often. Threw it hard as a mofo……

He threw as hard a a mofo but within his natural motion and effort profile. He didn't have to maximize every fiber of his being to max out his velocity causing his UCL to be the weak link and pop. He stayed within himself and had good mechanics. He naturally pitched to that velocity so it didn't overstress is body. Big difference between him and how guys throw these days.

There was a 12 year old in my son's Little League that blew up his elbow this season pitching and they are speculating that he will never pitch again in his life. Makes me question if the mechanics they are teaching these days to squeeze out extra velocity are sustainable for the human body.

If people only really knew how tiny that UCL ligament is.

 

[Todem]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

We had a congressional ****ing hearing on steroids in 2003 or so, but yeah, sure I'm over stating.

Look, if you can't enjoy what players like Shohei, Acuna, Tatis, et al are doing today and you much prefer the glory days, that's fine. To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

Playoff baseball is incredible today - if you don't like it as much as 80s baseball, fine. I think it's amazing TV.

Yeah you are overstating just how many guys used it and how responsible it was in the overall game as a whole.

80’s ,90’s and 00’s game IMO was a superior product.

It’s called an opinion. I am not stating it as fact. If you like todays game better great. Glad you do.

The issue is the approach not freaking steroids. That narrative is simply vastly overstated.

But what’s really hilarious is I said “I get it” when it came to pulling the kid.

But make no mistake….he will throw some complete games in his career….I have little doubt he will once he learns to be a little more efficent.

And it does not take manning up and throwing 150 pitches. You totally took my humorous post about Ryan so out of context.

But keep on rambling….no problem.

And yeah I like today’s players too but not nearly as much as the guys in the era’s I mentioned.

Totally different mentality and approach which I preferred and there are guys in todays game with that same mentality….just not nearly as many anymore.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

I think the point (mine anyway) is if dude can’t throw 150 pitches once in awhile that’s a problem

 

[belljr]

Go Phils

 

[Todem]

To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

I think the point (mine anyway) is if dude can’t throw 150 pitches once in awhile that’s a problem

He proved he could go a long while in last years CWS playing at LSU. He was an absolute workhorse.

He is one of those freaks like Ryan.

 

[Gally]

But the HGH WOULD allow them to recover faster and continue.

HGH wouldn't help with a torn UCL. The problem is the push for max velo. Strengthening all the surrou ding structure and maxing out effort will lead to the weak link breaking and that is the UCL.

It's a philosophy in today's game to maximize velo. It's not to pitch.

 

[General Malaise]

To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

I think the point (mine anyway) is if dude can’t throw 150 pitches once in awhile that’s a problem

He proved he could go a long while in last years CWS playing at LSU. He was an absolute workhorse.

He is one of those freaks like Ryan.

So protect him! This isn't hard. If you have a Ryan, why risk it? You have a bullpen and 40 years of science now on the side of protecting pitchers. But old school baseball bro wants to return to the olden days where men were men and athletes were disposable.

 

[Todem]

To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

I think the point (mine anyway) is if dude can’t throw 150 pitches once in awhile that’s a problem

He proved he could go a long while in last years CWS playing at LSU. He was an absolute workhorse.

He is one of those freaks like Ryan.

So protect him! This isn't hard. If you have a Ryan, why risk it? You have a bullpen and 40 years of science now on the side of protecting pitchers. But old school baseball bro wants to return to the olden days where men were men and athletes were disposable.

Jesus christ man……again I said I get it. And again I said he will pitch some CG when he learns to get more efficient. And again you keep going on this “old school bro rant”

There are guys in the league…..right now…..who have done what Skenes will do.

Verlander anyone? Guy is a horse…..and yeah he had TJ. But he has been a horse for a long time.

Cole? Absolute horse. A true ace.

Skenes is special and you take guys like that to give you innings.

Again……..that’s what makes him valuable more than most. The ability to actually pitch past 6 innings which is getting more and more hard to find because or two things.

Lack of approach
And the reach for max velo vs location masters.

Greg Maddux would still kill it today…..had nothing to do with roids or velo.

He was a jedi master “Pitcher”

Anyway……case closed.

 

[General Malaise]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

We had a congressional ****ing hearing on steroids in 2003 or so, but yeah, sure I'm over stating.

Look, if you can't enjoy what players like Shohei, Acuna, Tatis, et al are doing today and you much prefer the glory days, that's fine. To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

Playoff baseball is incredible today - if you don't like it as much as 80s baseball, fine. I think it's amazing TV.

Yeah you are overstating just how many guys used it and how responsible it was in the overall game as a whole.

80’s ,90’s and 00’s game IMO was a superior product.

It’s called an opinion. I am not stating it as fact. If you like todays game better great. Glad you do.

The issue is the approach not freaking steroids. That narrative is simply vastly overstated.

But what’s really hilarious is I said “I get it” when it came to pulling the kid.

But make no mistake….he will throw some complete games in his career….I have little doubt he will once he learns to be a little more efficent.

And it does not take manning up and throwing 150 pitches. You totally took my humorous post about Ryan so out of context.

But keep on rambling….no problem.

And yeah I like today’s players too but not nearly as much as the guys in the era’s I mentioned.

Totally different mentality and approach which I preferred and there are guys in todays game with that same mentality….just not nearly as many anymore.

You didn't answer the question - if it was overstated, why a congressional hearing and major overhaul with bans and suspensions for misuse? Come on, man....

You glorify the past, just like every aging man in the world from the dawn of time. That's fine, most guys do that too. But the sport is just fine and thriving. MLB has not seen a player like Shohei Ohtani since......Babe Ruth? Ever?

Keep living in the past....no problem.

But MLB is going forward with or without you yelling from your lawn how great it was in the 80s.

 

[General Malaise]

To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

I think the point (mine anyway) is if dude can’t throw 150 pitches once in awhile that’s a problem

He proved he could go a long while in last years CWS playing at LSU. He was an absolute workhorse.

He is one of those freaks like Ryan.

So protect him! This isn't hard. If you have a Ryan, why risk it? You have a bullpen and 40 years of science now on the side of protecting pitchers. But old school baseball bro wants to return to the olden days where men were men and athletes were disposable.

Jesus christ man……again I said I get it. And again I said he will pitch some CG when he learns to get more efficient. And again you keep going on this “old school bro rant”

There are guys in the league…..right now…..who have done what Skenes will do.

Verlander anyone? Guy is a horse…..and yeah he had TJ. But he has been a horse for a long time.

Cole? Absolute horse. A true ace.

Skenes is special and you take guys like that to give you innings.

Again……..that’s what makes him valuable more than most. The ability to actually pitch past 6 innings which is getting more and more hard to find because or two things.

Lack of approach
And the reach for max velo vs location masters.

Greg Maddux would still kill it today…..had nothing to do with roids or velo.

He was a jedi master “Pitcher”

Anyway……case closed.

Verlander broke into MLB in 2004. You don't think he gets handled differently today? Cole is on the IL.

Yeah case closed.

 

[Todem]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

We had a congressional ****ing hearing on steroids in 2003 or so, but yeah, sure I'm over stating.

Look, if you can't enjoy what players like Shohei, Acuna, Tatis, et al are doing today and you much prefer the glory days, that's fine. To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

Playoff baseball is incredible today - if you don't like it as much as 80s baseball, fine. I think it's amazing TV.

Yeah you are overstating just how many guys used it and how responsible it was in the overall game as a whole.

80’s ,90’s and 00’s game IMO was a superior product.

It’s called an opinion. I am not stating it as fact. If you like todays game better great. Glad you do.

The issue is the approach not freaking steroids. That narrative is simply vastly overstated.

But what’s really hilarious is I said “I get it” when it came to pulling the kid.

But make no mistake….he will throw some complete games in his career….I have little doubt he will once he learns to be a little more efficent.

And it does not take manning up and throwing 150 pitches. You totally took my humorous post about Ryan so out of context.

But keep on rambling….no problem.

And yeah I like today’s players too but not nearly as much as the guys in the era’s I mentioned.

Totally different mentality and approach which I preferred and there are guys in todays game with that same mentality….just not nearly as many anymore.

You didn't answer the question - if it was overstated, why a congressional hearing and major overhaul with bans and suspensions for misuse? Come on, man....

You glorify the past, just like every aging man in the world from the dawn of time. That's fine, most guys do that too. But the sport is just fine and thriving. MLB has not seen a player like Shohei Ohtani since......Babe Ruth? Ever?

Keep living in the past....no problem.

But MLB is going forward with or without you yelling from your lawn how great it was in the 80s.

Yeah….Love watching Ohtani.

I love baseball…..but yeah sue me because there are good many off us who loved how it was.

And you meep talking about the 80’s when I keep saying the 00’s as well…..hitting was better…much much better.

Pitching better? Hell freaking no. Way more walks, way more pitches in less innings, way more nonsense. But whatever floats your boat.

And get the hell off my lawn.

Lol!

 

[Todem]

To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

I think the point (mine anyway) is if dude can’t throw 150 pitches once in awhile that’s a problem

He proved he could go a long while in last years CWS playing at LSU. He was an absolute workhorse.

He is one of those freaks like Ryan.

So protect him! This isn't hard. If you have a Ryan, why risk it? You have a bullpen and 40 years of science now on the side of protecting pitchers. But old school baseball bro wants to return to the olden days where men were men and athletes were disposable.

Jesus christ man……again I said I get it. And again I said he will pitch some CG when he learns to get more efficient. And again you keep going on this “old school bro rant”

There are guys in the league…..right now…..who have done what Skenes will do.

Verlander anyone? Guy is a horse…..and yeah he had TJ. But he has been a horse for a long time.

Cole? Absolute horse. A true ace.

Skenes is special and you take guys like that to give you innings.

Again……..that’s what makes him valuable more than most. The ability to actually pitch past 6 innings which is getting more and more hard to find because or two things.

Lack of approach
And the reach for max velo vs location masters.

Greg Maddux would still kill it today…..had nothing to do with roids or velo.

He was a jedi master “Pitcher”

Anyway……case closed.

Verlander broke into MLB in 2004. You don't think he gets handled differently today? Cole is on the IL.

Yeah case closed.

Oh so what Cole on the il…..dudes all get hurt, etc etc etc.

We can go on all night.

 

[General Malaise]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

We had a congressional ****ing hearing on steroids in 2003 or so, but yeah, sure I'm over stating.

Look, if you can't enjoy what players like Shohei, Acuna, Tatis, et al are doing today and you much prefer the glory days, that's fine. To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

Playoff baseball is incredible today - if you don't like it as much as 80s baseball, fine. I think it's amazing TV.

Yeah you are overstating just how many guys used it and how responsible it was in the overall game as a whole.

80’s ,90’s and 00’s game IMO was a superior product.

It’s called an opinion. I am not stating it as fact. If you like todays game better great. Glad you do.

The issue is the approach not freaking steroids. That narrative is simply vastly overstated.

But what’s really hilarious is I said “I get it” when it came to pulling the kid.

But make no mistake….he will throw some complete games in his career….I have little doubt he will once he learns to be a little more efficent.

And it does not take manning up and throwing 150 pitches. You totally took my humorous post about Ryan so out of context.

But keep on rambling….no problem.

And yeah I like today’s players too but not nearly as much as the guys in the era’s I mentioned.

Totally different mentality and approach which I preferred and there are guys in todays game with that same mentality….just not nearly as many anymore.

You didn't answer the question - if it was overstated, why a congressional hearing and major overhaul with bans and suspensions for misuse? Come on, man....

You glorify the past, just like every aging man in the world from the dawn of time. That's fine, most guys do that too. But the sport is just fine and thriving. MLB has not seen a player like Shohei Ohtani since......Babe Ruth? Ever?

Keep living in the past....no problem.

But MLB is going forward with or without you yelling from your lawn how great it was in the 80s.

Yeah….Love watching Ohtani.

I love baseball…..but yeah sue me because there are good many off us who loved how it was.

And you meep talking about the 80’s when I keep saying the 00’s as well…..hitting was better…much much better.

Pitching better? Hell freaking no. Way more walks, way more pitches in less innings, way more nonsense. But whatever floats your boat.

And get the hell off my lawn.

Lol!

Oh, but batting average in MLB at a historical low and OBP across MLB as of today a historical low .312. Tell me again how much pitching sucks. You're a stat guy, rebutt that.

 

[General Malaise]

A couple interesting tidbits -

- The league BA is .238, lowest since 1968

- In the last 163 games between Minn and the Yankees since 2002 (including playoffs), NY is 119-44.

OH BUT GM, PITCHING SUCKS TODAY!!!!!111111

 

[Todem]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

We had a congressional ****ing hearing on steroids in 2003 or so, but yeah, sure I'm over stating.

Look, if you can't enjoy what players like Shohei, Acuna, Tatis, et al are doing today and you much prefer the glory days, that's fine. To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

Playoff baseball is incredible today - if you don't like it as much as 80s baseball, fine. I think it's amazing TV.

Yeah you are overstating just how many guys used it and how responsible it was in the overall game as a whole.

80’s ,90’s and 00’s game IMO was a superior product.

It’s called an opinion. I am not stating it as fact. If you like todays game better great. Glad you do.

The issue is the approach not freaking steroids. That narrative is simply vastly overstated.

But what’s really hilarious is I said “I get it” when it came to pulling the kid.

But make no mistake….he will throw some complete games in his career….I have little doubt he will once he learns to be a little more efficent.

And it does not take manning up and throwing 150 pitches. You totally took my humorous post about Ryan so out of context.

But keep on rambling….no problem.

And yeah I like today’s players too but not nearly as much as the guys in the era’s I mentioned.

Totally different mentality and approach which I preferred and there are guys in todays game with that same mentality….just not nearly as many anymore.

You didn't answer the question - if it was overstated, why a congressional hearing and major overhaul with bans and suspensions for misuse? Come on, man....

You glorify the past, just like every aging man in the world from the dawn of time. That's fine, most guys do that too. But the sport is just fine and thriving. MLB has not seen a player like Shohei Ohtani since......Babe Ruth? Ever?

Keep living in the past....no problem.

But MLB is going forward with or without you yelling from your lawn how great it was in the 80s.

Yeah….Love watching Ohtani.

I love baseball…..but yeah sue me because there are good many off us who loved how it was.

And you meep talking about the 80’s when I keep saying the 00’s as well…..hitting was better…much much better.

Pitching better? Hell freaking no. Way more walks, way more pitches in less innings, way more nonsense. But whatever floats your boat.

And get the hell off my lawn.

Lol!

Oh, but batting average in MLB at a historical low and OBP across MLB as of today a historical low .312. Tell me again how much pitching sucks. You're a stat guy, rebutt that.

Approach…..approach…..approach

Hitters have lost sight of contact and it’s all about the long ball.

Come on man!!!

 

[The Gator]

To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

I think the point (mine anyway) is if dude can’t throw 150 pitches once in awhile that’s a problem

He proved he could go a long while in last years CWS playing at LSU. He was an absolute workhorse.

He is one of those freaks like Ryan.

So protect him! This isn't hard. If you have a Ryan, why risk it? You have a bullpen and 40 years of science now on the side of protecting pitchers. But old school baseball bro wants to return to the olden days where men were men and athletes were disposable.

Bolded is such a weird argument here when they're more injured now.

 

[General Malaise]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

We had a congressional ****ing hearing on steroids in 2003 or so, but yeah, sure I'm over stating.

Look, if you can't enjoy what players like Shohei, Acuna, Tatis, et al are doing today and you much prefer the glory days, that's fine. To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

Playoff baseball is incredible today - if you don't like it as much as 80s baseball, fine. I think it's amazing TV.

Yeah you are overstating just how many guys used it and how responsible it was in the overall game as a whole.

80’s ,90’s and 00’s game IMO was a superior product.

It’s called an opinion. I am not stating it as fact. If you like todays game better great. Glad you do.

The issue is the approach not freaking steroids. That narrative is simply vastly overstated.

But what’s really hilarious is I said “I get it” when it came to pulling the kid.

But make no mistake….he will throw some complete games in his career….I have little doubt he will once he learns to be a little more efficent.

And it does not take manning up and throwing 150 pitches. You totally took my humorous post about Ryan so out of context.

But keep on rambling….no problem.

And yeah I like today’s players too but not nearly as much as the guys in the era’s I mentioned.

Totally different mentality and approach which I preferred and there are guys in todays game with that same mentality….just not nearly as many anymore.

You didn't answer the question - if it was overstated, why a congressional hearing and major overhaul with bans and suspensions for misuse? Come on, man....

You glorify the past, just like every aging man in the world from the dawn of time. That's fine, most guys do that too. But the sport is just fine and thriving. MLB has not seen a player like Shohei Ohtani since......Babe Ruth? Ever?

Keep living in the past....no problem.

But MLB is going forward with or without you yelling from your lawn how great it was in the 80s.

Yeah….Love watching Ohtani.

I love baseball…..but yeah sue me because there are good many off us who loved how it was.

And you meep talking about the 80’s when I keep saying the 00’s as well…..hitting was better…much much better.

Pitching better? Hell freaking no. Way more walks, way more pitches in less innings, way more nonsense. But whatever floats your boat.

And get the hell off my lawn.

Lol!

Oh, but batting average in MLB at a historical low and OBP across MLB as of today a historical low .312. Tell me again how much pitching sucks. You're a stat guy, rebutt that.

Approach…..approach…..approach

Hitters have lost sight of contact and it’s all about the long ball.

Come on man!!!

Numbers don't lie. People do.

 

[General Malaise]

To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

I think the point (mine anyway) is if dude can’t throw 150 pitches once in awhile that’s a problem

He proved he could go a long while in last years CWS playing at LSU. He was an absolute workhorse.

He is one of those freaks like Ryan.

So protect him! This isn't hard. If you have a Ryan, why risk it? You have a bullpen and 40 years of science now on the side of protecting pitchers. But old school baseball bro wants to return to the olden days where men were men and athletes were disposable.

Bolded is such a weird argument here when they're more injured now.

They are also 20x more expensive

 

[fred_1_15301]

Acuna and Julio are awful . Such high expectations and such ridiculously low output. 2 biggest busts of the year and I used up keeper status on them.

 

[belljr]

Today's kids don't know how to actually play the game...... Heard from multiple MLB scouts.

They can hit and throw but they don't understand the game. And when a young kid does they stand out

And Go Phils

 

[belljr]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

We had a congressional ****ing hearing on steroids in 2003 or so, but yeah, sure I'm over stating.

Look, if you can't enjoy what players like Shohei, Acuna, Tatis, et al are doing today and you much prefer the glory days, that's fine. To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

Playoff baseball is incredible today - if you don't like it as much as 80s baseball, fine. I think it's amazing TV.

Yeah you are overstating just how many guys used it and how responsible it was in the overall game as a whole.

80’s ,90’s and 00’s game IMO was a superior product.

It’s called an opinion. I am not stating it as fact. If you like todays game better great. Glad you do.

The issue is the approach not freaking steroids. That narrative is simply vastly overstated.

But what’s really hilarious is I said “I get it” when it came to pulling the kid.

But make no mistake….he will throw some complete games in his career….I have little doubt he will once he learns to be a little more efficent.

And it does not take manning up and throwing 150 pitches. You totally took my humorous post about Ryan so out of context.

But keep on rambling….no problem.

And yeah I like today’s players too but not nearly as much as the guys in the era’s I mentioned.

Totally different mentality and approach which I preferred and there are guys in todays game with that same mentality….just not nearly as many anymore.

You didn't answer the question - if it was overstated, why a congressional hearing and major overhaul with bans and suspensions for misuse? Come on, man....

You glorify the past, just like every aging man in the world from the dawn of time. That's fine, most guys do that too. But the sport is just fine and thriving. MLB has not seen a player like Shohei Ohtani since......Babe Ruth? Ever?

Keep living in the past....no problem.

But MLB is going forward with or without you yelling from your lawn how great it was in the 80s.

Yeah….Love watching Ohtani.

I love baseball…..but yeah sue me because there are good many off us who loved how it was.

And you meep talking about the 80’s when I keep saying the 00’s as well…..hitting was better…much much better.

Pitching better? Hell freaking no. Way more walks, way more pitches in less innings, way more nonsense. But whatever floats your boat.

And get the hell off my lawn.

Lol!

Oh, but batting average in MLB at a historical low and OBP across MLB as of today a historical low .312. Tell me again how much pitching sucks. You're a stat guy, rebutt that.

Approach…..approach…..approach

Hitters have lost sight of contact and it’s all about the long ball.

Come on man!!!

Numbers don't lie. People do.

The real answer isn't better pitching

The sabermetrics people have "figured" that it's ok to strikeout but swing for the fences instead of hitting for contact. So hitters now really don't care about high strikeout counts because over a full season the long ball and Extra base hits will out perform average and obp

 

[FairWarning]

A couple interesting tidbits -

- The league BA is .238, lowest since 1968

- In the last 163 games between Minn and the Yankees since 2002 (including playoffs), NY is 119-44.

OH BUT GM, PITCHING SUCKS TODAY!!!!!111111

If you want your starter to go thru the lineup 2X and then use four more pitchers, I guess it’s great. I don’t have the answer though.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

can one of you nerds explain to me why today’s A’s game did not have a runner starting on second base in the bottom of the 11th? I thought every extra inning has a runner start on second.

 

[belljr]

can one of you nerds explain to me why today’s A’s game did not have a runner starting on second base in the bottom of the 11th? I thought every extra inning has a runner start on second.

Says Daz Cameron started on second for Oakland in bottom of 11th

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/rockies-vs-athletics/2024/05/23/745660/final/summary/all

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

We had a congressional ****ing hearing on steroids in 2003 or so, but yeah, sure I'm over stating.

Look, if you can't enjoy what players like Shohei, Acuna, Tatis, et al are doing today and you much prefer the glory days, that's fine. To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

Playoff baseball is incredible today - if you don't like it as much as 80s baseball, fine. I think it's amazing TV.

Yeah you are overstating just how many guys used it and how responsible it was in the overall game as a whole.

80’s ,90’s and 00’s game IMO was a superior product.

It’s called an opinion. I am not stating it as fact. If you like todays game better great. Glad you do.

The issue is the approach not freaking steroids. That narrative is simply vastly overstated.

But what’s really hilarious is I said “I get it” when it came to pulling the kid.

But make no mistake….he will throw some complete games in his career….I have little doubt he will once he learns to be a little more efficent.

And it does not take manning up and throwing 150 pitches. You totally took my humorous post about Ryan so out of context.

But keep on rambling….no problem.

And yeah I like today’s players too but not nearly as much as the guys in the era’s I mentioned.

Totally different mentality and approach which I preferred and there are guys in todays game with that same mentality….just not nearly as many anymore.

You didn't answer the question - if it was overstated, why a congressional hearing and major overhaul with bans and suspensions for misuse? Come on, man....

You glorify the past, just like every aging man in the world from the dawn of time. That's fine, most guys do that too. But the sport is just fine and thriving. MLB has not seen a player like Shohei Ohtani since......Babe Ruth? Ever?

Keep living in the past....no problem.

But MLB is going forward with or without you yelling from your lawn how great it was in the 80s.

Yeah….Love watching Ohtani.

I love baseball…..but yeah sue me because there are good many off us who loved how it was.

And you meep talking about the 80’s when I keep saying the 00’s as well…..hitting was better…much much better.

Pitching better? Hell freaking no. Way more walks, way more pitches in less innings, way more nonsense. But whatever floats your boat.

And get the hell off my lawn.

Lol!

Oh, but batting average in MLB at a historical low and OBP across MLB as of today a historical low .312. Tell me again how much pitching sucks. You're a stat guy, rebutt that.

Noone cares about avg and obp. It’s all about launch angle and upper deck homeruns every swing

 

[CGRdrJoe]

can one of you nerds explain to me why today’s A’s game did not have a runner starting on second base in the bottom of the 11th? I thought every extra inning has a runner start on second.

Says Daz Cameron started on second for Oakland in bottom of 11th

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/rockies-vs-athletics/2024/05/23/745660/final/summary/all

my buddy was messing with me because i missed the rally that happened when i went to take a leak. friends are assholes

 

[Joe Schmo]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

We had a congressional ****ing hearing on steroids in 2003 or so, but yeah, sure I'm over stating.

Look, if you can't enjoy what players like Shohei, Acuna, Tatis, et al are doing today and you much prefer the glory days, that's fine. To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

Playoff baseball is incredible today - if you don't like it as much as 80s baseball, fine. I think it's amazing TV.

Yeah you are overstating just how many guys used it and how responsible it was in the overall game as a whole.

80’s ,90’s and 00’s game IMO was a superior product.

It’s called an opinion. I am not stating it as fact. If you like todays game better great. Glad you do.

The issue is the approach not freaking steroids. That narrative is simply vastly overstated.

But what’s really hilarious is I said “I get it” when it came to pulling the kid.

But make no mistake….he will throw some complete games in his career….I have little doubt he will once he learns to be a little more efficent.

And it does not take manning up and throwing 150 pitches. You totally took my humorous post about Ryan so out of context.

But keep on rambling….no problem.

And yeah I like today’s players too but not nearly as much as the guys in the era’s I mentioned.

Totally different mentality and approach which I preferred and there are guys in todays game with that same mentality….just not nearly as many anymore.

You didn't answer the question - if it was overstated, why a congressional hearing and major overhaul with bans and suspensions for misuse? Come on, man....

You glorify the past, just like every aging man in the world from the dawn of time. That's fine, most guys do that too. But the sport is just fine and thriving. MLB has not seen a player like Shohei Ohtani since......Babe Ruth? Ever?

Keep living in the past....no problem.

But MLB is going forward with or without you yelling from your lawn how great it was in the 80s.

Yeah….Love watching Ohtani.

I love baseball…..but yeah sue me because there are good many off us who loved how it was.

And you meep talking about the 80’s when I keep saying the 00’s as well…..hitting was better…much much better.

Pitching better? Hell freaking no. Way more walks, way more pitches in less innings, way more nonsense. But whatever floats your boat.

And get the hell off my lawn.

Lol!

Oh, but batting average in MLB at a historical low and OBP across MLB as of today a historical low .312. Tell me again how much pitching sucks. You're a stat guy, rebutt that.

Approach…..approach…..approach

Hitters have lost sight of contact and it’s all about the long ball.

Come on man!!!

Numbers don't lie. People do.

The real answer isn't better pitching

The sabermetrics people have "figured" that it's ok to strikeout but swing for the fences instead of hitting for contact. So hitters now really don't care about high strikeout counts because over a full season the long ball and Extra base hits will out perform average and obp

NBA went through a similar reckoning in the 90's when the stats nerds figured out that 3 pointers were more valuable than 2 pointers even though they were successful at a lower rate. This made the inside jumper a thing of the past. The game evolved to the point that a back to the basket center is no longer a need or desire. Same in the NFL once the realization that bell cow backs weren't worth the salary cap space anymore. MLB scoring is still strong but the traditional stats are all out of wack.

 

[General Malaise]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

We had a congressional ****ing hearing on steroids in 2003 or so, but yeah, sure I'm over stating.

Look, if you can't enjoy what players like Shohei, Acuna, Tatis, et al are doing today and you much prefer the glory days, that's fine. To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

Playoff baseball is incredible today - if you don't like it as much as 80s baseball, fine. I think it's amazing TV.

Yeah you are overstating just how many guys used it and how responsible it was in the overall game as a whole.

80’s ,90’s and 00’s game IMO was a superior product.

It’s called an opinion. I am not stating it as fact. If you like todays game better great. Glad you do.

The issue is the approach not freaking steroids. That narrative is simply vastly overstated.

But what’s really hilarious is I said “I get it” when it came to pulling the kid.

But make no mistake….he will throw some complete games in his career….I have little doubt he will once he learns to be a little more efficent.

And it does not take manning up and throwing 150 pitches. You totally took my humorous post about Ryan so out of context.

But keep on rambling….no problem.

And yeah I like today’s players too but not nearly as much as the guys in the era’s I mentioned.

Totally different mentality and approach which I preferred and there are guys in todays game with that same mentality….just not nearly as many anymore.

You didn't answer the question - if it was overstated, why a congressional hearing and major overhaul with bans and suspensions for misuse? Come on, man....

You glorify the past, just like every aging man in the world from the dawn of time. That's fine, most guys do that too. But the sport is just fine and thriving. MLB has not seen a player like Shohei Ohtani since......Babe Ruth? Ever?

Keep living in the past....no problem.

But MLB is going forward with or without you yelling from your lawn how great it was in the 80s.

Yeah….Love watching Ohtani.

I love baseball…..but yeah sue me because there are good many off us who loved how it was.

And you meep talking about the 80’s when I keep saying the 00’s as well…..hitting was better…much much better.

Pitching better? Hell freaking no. Way more walks, way more pitches in less innings, way more nonsense. But whatever floats your boat.

And get the hell off my lawn.

Lol!

Oh, but batting average in MLB at a historical low and OBP across MLB as of today a historical low .312. Tell me again how much pitching sucks. You're a stat guy, rebutt that.

Noone cares about avg and obp. It’s all about launch angle and upper deck homeruns every swing

Uh, teams with small payrolls care about OBP. They have to.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Nolan Ryan was one of one. There was nothing like him before and there will never be anything like him again. He was Secretariat; built differently than the rest.

Nolan also wasn't getting paid $30 million or more per year to pitch - he left Houston because they refused to go above $800K, lol. I know inflation and all but I don't think $800K in 1989 dollars is equal to $30 million in 2024 dollars.

Skenes will be placed in bubble wrap for the foreseeable future and that's just mandatory now with your future. He's got Strasbourg comparisons and I bet Washington would like a LOT of do-overs with him. We live and learn.

I know Nolan was Nolan.

But I can go into dozens and dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers in the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s

Who were absolute dogs, who threw quite hard…..but had outstanding efficiency.

Again the game has changed a lot….and it’s not for the better.

Sure, the steroid era produced a lot of freaks on the mound. Clements for one would meet your definition, but needed drugs to do it. Randy was supposedly clean, but he broke down long before Nolan did in their respective careers. Just reiterating that comparing 22 year old pitching phenoms to Nolan vis a vis how many pitches they SHOULD be able to throw is an exercise in futility. Nolan is sacred ground.

You say it's not for the better, eh....I don't agree. Pitching overall is better but it's coming at a staggering cost due to injuries. I certainly don't think we need to return to the steroid days because that's what we watched in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

You are over stating the steroid era big time my friend. Like wow.

Anyway…..I won’t argue. The quality of the game and entertainment was vastly superior to todays game.

We had a congressional ****ing hearing on steroids in 2003 or so, but yeah, sure I'm over stating.

Look, if you can't enjoy what players like Shohei, Acuna, Tatis, et al are doing today and you much prefer the glory days, that's fine. To each their own but I'm not about to suggest that this sport would be better by "manning up" and letting a guy like Paul Skenes throw 150 pitches so he could get a shut out.

Playoff baseball is incredible today - if you don't like it as much as 80s baseball, fine. I think it's amazing TV.

Yeah you are overstating just how many guys used it and how responsible it was in the overall game as a whole.

80’s ,90’s and 00’s game IMO was a superior product.

It’s called an opinion. I am not stating it as fact. If you like todays game better great. Glad you do.

The issue is the approach not freaking steroids. That narrative is simply vastly overstated.

But what’s really hilarious is I said “I get it” when it came to pulling the kid.

But make no mistake….he will throw some complete games in his career….I have little doubt he will once he learns to be a little more efficent.

And it does not take manning up and throwing 150 pitches. You totally took my humorous post about Ryan so out of context.

But keep on rambling….no problem.

And yeah I like today’s players too but not nearly as much as the guys in the era’s I mentioned.

Totally different mentality and approach which I preferred and there are guys in todays game with that same mentality….just not nearly as many anymore.

You didn't answer the question - if it was overstated, why a congressional hearing and major overhaul with bans and suspensions for misuse? Come on, man....

You glorify the past, just like every aging man in the world from the dawn of time. That's fine, most guys do that too. But the sport is just fine and thriving. MLB has not seen a player like Shohei Ohtani since......Babe Ruth? Ever?

Keep living in the past....no problem.

But MLB is going forward with or without you yelling from your lawn how great it was in the 80s.

Yeah….Love watching Ohtani.

I love baseball…..but yeah sue me because there are good many off us who loved how it was.

And you meep talking about the 80’s when I keep saying the 00’s as well…..hitting was better…much much better.

Pitching better? Hell freaking no. Way more walks, way more pitches in less innings, way more nonsense. But whatever floats your boat.

And get the hell off my lawn.

Lol!

Oh, but batting average in MLB at a historical low and OBP across MLB as of today a historical low .312. Tell me again how much pitching sucks. You're a stat guy, rebutt that.

Noone cares about avg and obp. It’s all about launch angle and upper deck homeruns every swing

Uh, teams with small payrolls care about OBP. They have to.

Totally disagree. Dudes just swinging for the seats. Doesn’t matter the count or the situation.
No one wants to just set the table or move someone into scoring position. Everyone waiting for the 3 run HR…

 

[Raging weasel]

My theory is that the modern hitter can't read the pitch upon release so are just guessing what the pitcher is throwing to them. I think they decide whether they are going to swing for the fences before the pitcher ever releases the ball.
The shift was so effective because so many guys would rather strike out or ground into the shift than try to hit the ball to the wide open side of the field.

 

[The Gator]

Welcome back Patrick Bailey.

 

[ChiefD]

Come watch the Royals play. They are winning with pitching and defense and contact hitting.

 

[The Gator]

Come watch the Royals play. They are winning with pitching and defense and contact hitting.

Big fan.

Rolling out Garcia, Witt and McArthur for fantasy daily.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

What in the world were the umpires thinking here? How does MLB write such ****ty rules

White Sox: MLB questions ump's game-ending call

The Orioles escaped Chicago on a game-ending interference call Thursday night, but MLB told the White Sox it didn't have to go that way.

www.espn.com

 

[BeTheMatch]

What in the world were the umpires thinking here? How does MLB write such ****ty rules

White Sox: MLB questions ump's game-ending call

The Orioles escaped Chicago on a game-ending interference call Thursday night, but MLB told the White Sox it didn't have to go that way.

www.espn.com

What were the umpires thinking? Well, to enforce the rules. He interfered. If you don't call it, then what? Just ignore rules whenever? Even if it is a judgment call, you can easily defend the judgment there to call interference. Could you also defend not calling interference there? Sure.

Love the homer announcers losing their minds when they obviously don't know the rules.

 

[General Malaise]

Come watch the Royals play. They are winning with pitching and defense and contact hitting.

Right, this notion that NO TEAMS care about OBP is asinine. This was how they won their WS. It was in our lifetimes. Not all that long ago either. On color TV and everything.

There's a movie called Moneyball that's pretty good.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

What in the world were the umpires thinking here? How does MLB write such ****ty rules

White Sox: MLB questions ump's game-ending call

The Orioles escaped Chicago on a game-ending interference call Thursday night, but MLB told the White Sox it didn't have to go that way.

www.espn.com

What were the umpires thinking? Well, to enforce the rules. He interfered. If you don't call it, then what? Just ignore rules whenever? Even if it is a judgment call, you can easily defend the judgment there to call interference. Could you also defend not calling interference there? Sure.

Love the homer announcers losing their minds when they obviously don't know the rules.

I follow the Orioles and I thought it was awful - until I read the rule and read the Sox manager saying he didn't blame the ump ("he made the right call" or something close to that), but the rule.

 

[belljr]

Come watch the Royals play. They are winning with pitching and defense and contact hitting.

Right, this notion that NO TEAMS care about OBP is asinine. This was how they won their WS. It was in our lifetimes. Not all that long ago either. On color TV and everything.

There's a movie called Moneyball that's pretty good.

Moneyball is way before this new crap

Guys were so good at hitting now they had to ban the shift

 

[General Malaise]

Welcome back Patrick Bailey.

Just added him in fantasy this morning! My 4th catcher to date. Man, hard to find. Let's go Bailey!

 

[General Malaise]

Come watch the Royals play. They are winning with pitching and defense and contact hitting.

Right, this notion that NO TEAMS care about OBP is asinine. This was how they won their WS. It was in our lifetimes. Not all that long ago either. On color TV and everything.

There's a movie called Moneyball that's pretty good.

Moneyball is way before this new crap

Guys were so good at hitting now they had to ban the shift

Have you heard of the Tampa Bay Rays? They win a lot of games playing Moneyball. Still.

 

[urbanhack]

What in the world were the umpires thinking here? How does MLB write such ****ty rules

White Sox: MLB questions ump's game-ending call

The Orioles escaped Chicago on a game-ending interference call Thursday night, but MLB told the White Sox it didn't have to go that way.

www.espn.com

What were the umpires thinking? Well, to enforce the rules. He interfered. If you don't call it, then what? Just ignore rules whenever? Even if it is a judgment call, you can easily defend the judgment there to call interference. Could you also defend not calling interference there? Sure.

Love the homer announcers losing their minds when they obviously don't know the rules.

Horrible take. It was a **** call

 

[belljr]

What in the world were the umpires thinking here? How does MLB write such ****ty rules

White Sox: MLB questions ump's game-ending call

The Orioles escaped Chicago on a game-ending interference call Thursday night, but MLB told the White Sox it didn't have to go that way.

www.espn.com

What were the umpires thinking? Well, to enforce the rules. He interfered. If you don't call it, then what? Just ignore rules whenever? Even if it is a judgment call, you can easily defend the judgment there to call interference. Could you also defend not calling interference there? Sure.

Love the homer announcers losing their minds when they obviously don't know the rules.

I get where you are coming from but umpires can use judgement in these situations.

And in this example it was terrible. Why? Because it's an infield fly, no one even has to catch it for the batter to be out.

 

[BeTheMatch]

What in the world were the umpires thinking here? How does MLB write such ****ty rules

White Sox: MLB questions ump's game-ending call

The Orioles escaped Chicago on a game-ending interference call Thursday night, but MLB told the White Sox it didn't have to go that way.

www.espn.com

What were the umpires thinking? Well, to enforce the rules. He interfered. If you don't call it, then what? Just ignore rules whenever? Even if it is a judgment call, you can easily defend the judgment there to call interference. Could you also defend not calling interference there? Sure.

Love the homer announcers losing their minds when they obviously don't know the rules.

I get where you are coming from but umpires can use judgement in these situations.

And in this example it was terrible. Why? Because it's an infield fly, no one even has to catch it for the batter to be out.

I understand that. But play that out a little. I know this isn't what happened, but let's say the runner completely knocked down the fielder and the ball isn't caught. Sure, the batter's out, but runners can still advance. Everyone is all upset about this because the fielder ended up getting over there and making the catch without a problem. But the umpire did and has to make the call right when the interference happens. He doesn't know how it's going to end up. I'm guessing the majority of umpires don't make the call given the situation. Their judgment would be not to call it. I just don't think it's so hair-on-fire black and white that this was some sort of horrible screwup by the umpires.

 

[BeTheMatch]

What in the world were the umpires thinking here? How does MLB write such ****ty rules

White Sox: MLB questions ump's game-ending call

The Orioles escaped Chicago on a game-ending interference call Thursday night, but MLB told the White Sox it didn't have to go that way.

www.espn.com

What were the umpires thinking? Well, to enforce the rules. He interfered. If you don't call it, then what? Just ignore rules whenever? Even if it is a judgment call, you can easily defend the judgment there to call interference. Could you also defend not calling interference there? Sure.

Love the homer announcers losing their minds when they obviously don't know the rules.

Horrible take. It was a **** call

Yes, following the rules is a horrible take.