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***Official - 2024 Major League Baseball Thread - Royals Stink Now Since I Posted About It. I Suck At This *** (3 Viewers)

When was the last time that a player in a major sport averaged more than 50% more money a year than the 2nd highest player? That’s crazy.
The last one that contended for a Cy Young, MVP and Silver Slugger every year

He's on his 2nd TJ surgery. It took him 2 years to pitch after the first one. He keeps blowing out his elbow without throwing a ton of innings. I would put huge sums of money that if he tries to pitch again, he'll blow out the elbow again. There has to be some concern that a guy with less than 500 innings pitched has needed multiple elbow surgeries.
 
The Dodgers team doctor is the one who did Ohtani’s surgery. He had to have good insight re his ability to come back and pitch. It was reported that the Dodgers medical team and their ability to rehab these types of injuries was a factor.

I wonder what the true NPV of the $700 million is. Turns out the majority of it is deferred and not payable until after the 10 years. Lets Dodgers work around payroll tax and sign other players, and for Ohtani to smooth out his tax obligations. I would give Friedman credit for that contract structure, but supposedly it was Ohtani’s suggestion. Just seems like a great win-win. There are reports that the Dodgers will recoup 20% of the contract within 2 years just through sponsorships, ad revenue, jerseys and more. These guys knew what they were doing.
 
Technically speaking Ohtani's recent surgery wasn't Tommy John but I agree 100% with the sentiment above. Not good.
He had a second UCL tear. That is what really what matters.

ETA: The article refers to having a second "Tommy John surgery" but I am not sure whether all the references had the same type of UCL repairs in all instances of having the UCL tear. I think in many cases the typical reporter/public type persona will use Tommy John surgery to describe UCL tear repairs whether or not the repair was a typical TJ surgery or not.
 
This may rival the Deshaun Watson signing.
Are you 3 sheets to the wind tonight? Watson came with a ton of “baggage “as well as a few other questions. Ohtani is in rarified air of the greats of the game and also has a stellar reputation
When is he going to pitch again? 70 a year for a DH until then, no thanks.
His going to generate over half that in marketing and licensing for the Dodgers and now makes them a front runner to land Yamamoto.
 
Ohtani's base salary is only $2M/yr. with the remaining deferred money to be paid out without interest through 2043.

For CBT purposes, the Dodgers hit will be $46M/yr.
 
The Dodgers team doctor is the one who did Ohtani’s surgery. He had to have good insight re his ability to come back and pitch. It was reported that the Dodgers medical team and their ability to rehab these types of injuries was a factor.
It doesn't appear there is great success in pitchers coming back from a second UCL tear.

Pitchers with Multiple UCL tears
It's not a good history, but a lot of the examples are older players that were probably done anyway - not sure Randy Wolf or Edinson Volquez were going to produce much value past 35. Medical science is always improving, and Nathan Eovaldi is an encouraging recent success story.

The scary example would be Josh Johnson as a fairly recent ace-level guy whose career ended before 30.
 
It's not a good history, but a lot of the examples are older players that were probably done anyway - not sure Randy Wolf or Edinson Volquez were going to produce much value past 35. Medical science is always improving, and Nathan Eovaldi is an encouraging recent success story.

The scary example would be Josh Johnson as a fairly recent ace-level guy whose career ended before 30.
I agree that technology has gotten better for sure which gives some optimism but in general I think baseball has gone the way that will lead to this from here on out. Max velo has required stressing all components to lead to the weakest link failing.....which is the UCL. I think lifting weights and strengthening all the muscles of the body to maximize velocity just puts too much stress on the UCL until it snaps. It's unfortunate.
 
It's not a good history, but a lot of the examples are older players that were probably done anyway - not sure Randy Wolf or Edinson Volquez were going to produce much value past 35. Medical science is always improving, and Nathan Eovaldi is an encouraging recent success story.

The scary example would be Josh Johnson as a fairly recent ace-level guy whose career ended before 30.
I agree that technology has gotten better for sure which gives some optimism but in general I think baseball has gone the way that will lead to this from here on out. Max velo has required stressing all components to lead to the weakest link failing.....which is the UCL. I think lifting weights and strengthening all the muscles of the body to maximize velocity just puts too much stress on the UCL until it snaps. It's unfortunate.
Agreed. To endure as an SP you’re going to have to be a physical freak of nature like Nolan Ryan.
 
It's not a good history, but a lot of the examples are older players that were probably done anyway - not sure Randy Wolf or Edinson Volquez were going to produce much value past 35. Medical science is always improving, and Nathan Eovaldi is an encouraging recent success story.

The scary example would be Josh Johnson as a fairly recent ace-level guy whose career ended before 30.
I agree that technology has gotten better for sure which gives some optimism but in general I think baseball has gone the way that will lead to this from here on out. Max velo has required stressing all components to lead to the weakest link failing.....which is the UCL. I think lifting weights and strengthening all the muscles of the body to maximize velocity just puts too much stress on the UCL until it snaps. It's unfortunate.
Agreed. To endure as an SP you’re going to have to be a physical freak of nature like Nolan Ryan.
See, I don't think that Nolan Ryan necessarily was a physical freak of nature. Don't get me wrong.....he was a big, country strong dude for sure. But pitching philosophy and training were not the same back then. I think Nolan Ryan coming up today would have UCL issues because training would have strengthened him to the point where his UCL would snap. Max velo attainment would dictate maxing out effort every throw coupled with strengthening everything to the max would lead to the UCL snapping as the weak link.

Ryan didn't throw that way. Pitchers in that era paced themselves to throw complete games and didn't max out every pitch. They gave their bodies/arms rest after the season and didn't throw 52 weeks a year. That is a big reason that they could throw so many pitches. It's just a different philosophy now.
 
Ohtani's base salary is only $2M/yr. with the remaining deferred money to be paid out without interest through 2043.

For CBT purposes, the Dodgers hit will be $46M/yr.
Going to make the Dodgers the most hated franchise in sports, and I'm okay with that.
 
Ohtani's base salary is only $2M/yr. with the remaining deferred money to be paid out without interest through 2043.

For CBT purposes, the Dodgers hit will be $46M/yr.
it’s good to have someone to root against but this isn’t bad for baseball, it’s horrendous
 
it’s good to have someone to root against but this isn’t bad for baseball, it’s horrendous

I don't think it's in the top ten of horrendous things about the game.

For now, I'm looking at it as a one off instead of a trend. There aren't many players who'll be willing to push the bag that far down the road. Ohtani is making many times the $2M/yr in endorsements so he can afford to do this.
 
Ohtani's base salary is only $2M/yr. with the remaining deferred money to be paid out without interest through 2043.

For CBT purposes, the Dodgers hit will be $46M/yr.
That is a travesty. No way that should be allowed
Anybody else still think the Dodger’s brass are dumb?

It works for them the next ten years but aren’t they screwed the ten years after that? Just kicking the can down the road I guess.
 
Ohtani's base salary is only $2M/yr. with the remaining deferred money to be paid out without interest through 2043.

For CBT purposes, the Dodgers hit will be $46M/yr.
That is a travesty. No way that should be allowed
Anybody else still think the Dodger’s brass are dumb?

It works for them the next ten years but aren’t they screwed the ten years after that? Just kicking the can down the road I guess.
Interest free are you kidding. Put it in some money market account and make 5-8% guaranteed.
 
I don’t understand why baseball has luxury tax provisions when you can just do this.

The luxury tax is the reason for contracts like this. The 12+ year deals that Harper, Tatis and others signed in recent years are another variation on skirting the CBT.

There are smart people on both sides of the negotiations who know the CBA backwards and forwards and use that knowledge to game the system.
 
Ohtani's base salary is only $2M/yr. with the remaining deferred money to be paid out without interest through 2043.

For CBT purposes, the Dodgers hit will be $46M/yr.
That is a travesty. No way that should be allowed
Anybody else still think the Dodger’s brass are dumb?

It works for them the next ten years but aren’t they screwed the ten years after that? Just kicking the can down the road I guess.
Not really, because the luxury tax will go way up and more creative accounting will happen.
 
I don’t understand why baseball has luxury tax provisions when you can just do this.

The luxury tax is the reason for contracts like this. The 12+ year deals that Harper, Tatis and others signed in recent years are another variation on skirting the CBT.

There are smart people on both sides of the negotiations who know the CBA backwards and forwards and use that knowledge to game the system.
Right, but it seems like the tax isn’t really having its intended effect.
 
I don’t understand why baseball has luxury tax provisions when you can just do this.

The luxury tax is the reason for contracts like this. The 12+ year deals that Harper, Tatis and others signed in recent years are another variation on skirting the CBT.

There are smart people on both sides of the negotiations who know the CBA backwards and forwards and use that knowledge to game the system.
Right, but it seems like the tax isn’t really having its intended effect.
The law of unintended consequences
 
I don’t understand why baseball has luxury tax provisions when you can just do this.

The luxury tax is the reason for contracts like this. The 12+ year deals that Harper, Tatis and others signed in recent years are another variation on skirting the CBT.

There are smart people on both sides of the negotiations who know the CBA backwards and forwards and use that knowledge to game the system.
Right, but it seems like the tax isn’t really having its intended effect.
The law of unintended consequences
That's always going to be the case with any sort of system, but it nevertheless seems like they could build a better mousetrap in this instance.
 
I don’t understand why baseball has luxury tax provisions when you can just do this.

The luxury tax is the reason for contracts like this. The 12+ year deals that Harper, Tatis and others signed in recent years are another variation on skirting the CBT.

There are smart people on both sides of the negotiations who know the CBA backwards and forwards and use that knowledge to game the system.
Right, but it seems like the tax isn’t really having its intended effect.
The law of unintended consequences
That's always going to be the case with any sort of system, but it nevertheless seems like they could build a better mousetrap in this instance.

Some stakeholders prefer the current mousetrap
 
I don’t understand why baseball has luxury tax provisions when you can just do this.

The luxury tax is the reason for contracts like this. The 12+ year deals that Harper, Tatis and others signed in recent years are another variation on skirting the CBT.

There are smart people on both sides of the negotiations who know the CBA backwards and forwards and use that knowledge to game the system.
Right, but it seems like the tax isn’t really having its intended effect.
The law of unintended consequences
That's always going to be the case with any sort of system, but it nevertheless seems like they could build a better mousetrap in this instance.
In this case, it’s not that a loophole was exploited. The CBA specifically calls out there are no limits on the deferred $ or % of total deferred. It was the bargained outcome.


Betts and Freeman contracts also have a decent amount of deferred $ (just not nearly as much as Ohtani).
 
I don’t understand why baseball has luxury tax provisions when you can just do this.

The luxury tax is the reason for contracts like this. The 12+ year deals that Harper, Tatis and others signed in recent years are another variation on skirting the CBT.

There are smart people on both sides of the negotiations who know the CBA backwards and forwards and use that knowledge to game the system.
Right, but it seems like the tax isn’t really having its intended effect.
The law of unintended consequences
That's always going to be the case with any sort of system, but it nevertheless seems like they could build a better mousetrap in this instance.

Some stakeholders prefer the current mousetrap
Baseball made great strides to improve the game over the objection of some stakeholders this year and I hope they continue on that trajectory.
 
I don’t understand why baseball has luxury tax provisions when you can just do this.

The luxury tax is the reason for contracts like this. The 12+ year deals that Harper, Tatis and others signed in recent years are another variation on skirting the CBT.

There are smart people on both sides of the negotiations who know the CBA backwards and forwards and use that knowledge to game the system.
Right, but it seems like the tax isn’t really having its intended effect.
The law of unintended consequences
That's always going to be the case with any sort of system, but it nevertheless seems like they could build a better mousetrap in this instance.
In this case, it’s not that a loophole was exploited. The CBA specifically calls out there are no limits on the deferred $ or % of total deferred. It was the bargained outcome.


Betts and Freeman contracts also have a decent amount of deferred $ (just not nearly as much as Ohtani).

Stop making sense.
 
I don’t understand why baseball has luxury tax provisions when you can just do this.

The luxury tax is the reason for contracts like this. The 12+ year deals that Harper, Tatis and others signed in recent years are another variation on skirting the CBT.

There are smart people on both sides of the negotiations who know the CBA backwards and forwards and use that knowledge to game the system.
Right, but it seems like the tax isn’t really having its intended effect.
The law of unintended consequences
That's always going to be the case with any sort of system, but it nevertheless seems like they could build a better mousetrap in this instance.
In this case, it’s not that a loophole was exploited. The CBA specifically calls out there are no limits on the deferred $ or % of total deferred. It was the bargained outcome.


Betts and Freeman contracts also have a decent amount of deferred $ (just not nearly as much as Ohtani).

Stop making sense.
I wonder if some of the reason that they wanted this was to protect the players to some degree. Having all that money deferred means they can't blow through it and become destitute the minute they stop playing because they are spending everything they get. You don't hear about that as much in baseball but deferring the money is a nice byproduct for those that don't know how to save.

Not saying this is the main driver but it is a nice consequence for those that may have issues with spending.
 
I kinda thought it was insane that Ohtani agreed to defer the money interest free, but then when it came up that he can move out of California (to any number of states/places with no income tax) when the bulk of the money comes in, that is pretty smart.
That’s next level. I’m sure California loves this :lol:

I wish Ohtani wasn’t so likable
 
I kinda thought it was insane that Ohtani agreed to defer the money interest free, but then when it came up that he can move out of California (to any number of states/places with no income tax) when the bulk of the money comes in, that is pretty smart.
He can move to Toronto and that becomes close to 1 billion canadian dollars.

of course, then there's the taxes but that's another story
 

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