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*** Official Barack Obama FBG campaign headquarters *** (2 Viewers)

Re: Jeremiah Woods - As the other thread has predictably turned into a racial, and even regional fight, i'd like to discuss how everyone thinks this will impact Obama's campaign. Both now in the primary and, should he win the nomination, in the General.My overall take is that this will be bad, very very bad. I personally think that Obama is intelligent enough to decipher the good from the bad in this guys sermons. But, you cant have someone's preacher, someone who they supposedly look to for guidance (supposedly), being this far out there like Woods.I think this will give many fence sitters just enough push to at least not vote for Obama. It may not drive them to HRC or McCain, but it certainly cant encourage the majority of undecideds to get behind Obama. And should Obama win the primary, the GOP will be ALL over this story. Playing to the heart strings of patriots everywhere.just dont see how this one wont maintain legs for a while to come, and possibly become a main talking point amongst his opponents.
Generally speaking, I think it's better to be getting a lot of press now. Obviously many people will be put off, but I think over time most people will be able to separate out the fact that Obama clearly doesn't believe these things and that we aren't voting for the "Spiritual Advisers" of Presidents. The ones that can't make that distinction probably weren't going to vote for him anyway. It probably does hurt more in terms of the Democratic race, since we've gotten past the point of this being about issues about a month ago. All things being equal though, it's probably better that this is being talked about now rather than in the two or three days before PA. Most people will probably have forgotten about it by then.
I doubt this one goes away for good. This is right in the Republican's wheelhouse when it comes to advertising campaigns. Don't underestimate the damage running an ad showing Obama's photo alongside a running clip of Woods' speeches could do in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, etc. come November.
Yeah, but by then most people will already know about this since it's getting wide press now. I think this is one of those stories that has the most impact the first time people hear it, and then gradually diminishes. In November I think most people will be wanting to hear about how we address the economy and the war in Iraq, and not really care about what anybody's former pastor said.
 
Re: Jeremiah Woods - As the other thread has predictably turned into a racial, and even regional fight, i'd like to discuss how everyone thinks this will impact Obama's campaign. Both now in the primary and, should he win the nomination, in the General.My overall take is that this will be bad, very very bad. I personally think that Obama is intelligent enough to decipher the good from the bad in this guys sermons. But, you cant have someone's preacher, someone who they supposedly look to for guidance (supposedly), being this far out there like Woods.I think this will give many fence sitters just enough push to at least not vote for Obama. It may not drive them to HRC or McCain, but it certainly cant encourage the majority of undecideds to get behind Obama. And should Obama win the primary, the GOP will be ALL over this story. Playing to the heart strings of patriots everywhere.just dont see how this one wont maintain legs for a while to come, and possibly become a main talking point amongst his opponents.
Generally speaking, I think it's better to be getting a lot of press now. Obviously many people will be put off, but I think over time most people will be able to separate out the fact that Obama clearly doesn't believe these things and that we aren't voting for the "Spiritual Advisers" of Presidents. The ones that can't make that distinction probably weren't going to vote for him anyway. It probably does hurt more in terms of the Democratic race, since we've gotten past the point of this being about issues about a month ago. All things being equal though, it's probably better that this is being talked about now rather than in the two or three days before PA. Most people will probably have forgotten about it by then.
I doubt this one goes away for good. This is right in the Republican's wheelhouse when it comes to advertising campaigns. Don't underestimate the damage running an ad showing Obama's photo alongside a running clip of Woods' speeches could do in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, etc. come November.
Yeah, but by then most people will already know about this since it's getting wide press now. I think this is one of those stories that has the most impact the first time people hear it, and then gradually diminishes. In November I think most people will be wanting to hear about how we address the economy and the war in Iraq, and not really care about what anybody's former pastor said.
Hope you're right. So, the question begs to be asked...does HRC run with this in the days just before PA?
 
Re: Jeremiah Woods - As the other thread has predictably turned into a racial, and even regional fight, i'd like to discuss how everyone thinks this will impact Obama's campaign. Both now in the primary and, should he win the nomination, in the General.My overall take is that this will be bad, very very bad. I personally think that Obama is intelligent enough to decipher the good from the bad in this guys sermons. But, you cant have someone's preacher, someone who they supposedly look to for guidance (supposedly), being this far out there like Woods.I think this will give many fence sitters just enough push to at least not vote for Obama. It may not drive them to HRC or McCain, but it certainly cant encourage the majority of undecideds to get behind Obama. And should Obama win the primary, the GOP will be ALL over this story. Playing to the heart strings of patriots everywhere.just dont see how this one wont maintain legs for a while to come, and possibly become a main talking point amongst his opponents.
Generally speaking, I think it's better to be getting a lot of press now. Obviously many people will be put off, but I think over time most people will be able to separate out the fact that Obama clearly doesn't believe these things and that we aren't voting for the "Spiritual Advisers" of Presidents. The ones that can't make that distinction probably weren't going to vote for him anyway. It probably does hurt more in terms of the Democratic race, since we've gotten past the point of this being about issues about a month ago. All things being equal though, it's probably better that this is being talked about now rather than in the two or three days before PA. Most people will probably have forgotten about it by then.
I doubt this one goes away for good. This is right in the Republican's wheelhouse when it comes to advertising campaigns. Don't underestimate the damage running an ad showing Obama's photo alongside a running clip of Woods' speeches could do in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, etc. come November.
Yeah, but by then most people will already know about this since it's getting wide press now. I think this is one of those stories that has the most impact the first time people hear it, and then gradually diminishes. In November I think most people will be wanting to hear about how we address the economy and the war in Iraq, and not really care about what anybody's former pastor said.
Hope you're right. So, the question begs to be asked...does HRC run with this in the days just before PA?
She won't directly, but I wouldn't be suprised if a 527 that supports her does.
 
Re: Jeremiah Woods - As the other thread has predictably turned into a racial, and even regional fight, i'd like to discuss how everyone thinks this will impact Obama's campaign. Both now in the primary and, should he win the nomination, in the General.My overall take is that this will be bad, very very bad. I personally think that Obama is intelligent enough to decipher the good from the bad in this guys sermons. But, you cant have someone's preacher, someone who they supposedly look to for guidance (supposedly), being this far out there like Woods.I think this will give many fence sitters just enough push to at least not vote for Obama. It may not drive them to HRC or McCain, but it certainly cant encourage the majority of undecideds to get behind Obama. And should Obama win the primary, the GOP will be ALL over this story. Playing to the heart strings of patriots everywhere.just dont see how this one wont maintain legs for a while to come, and possibly become a main talking point amongst his opponents.
Generally speaking, I think it's better to be getting a lot of press now. Obviously many people will be put off, but I think over time most people will be able to separate out the fact that Obama clearly doesn't believe these things and that we aren't voting for the "Spiritual Advisers" of Presidents. The ones that can't make that distinction probably weren't going to vote for him anyway. It probably does hurt more in terms of the Democratic race, since we've gotten past the point of this being about issues about a month ago. All things being equal though, it's probably better that this is being talked about now rather than in the two or three days before PA. Most people will probably have forgotten about it by then.
I see this situation as a test of Obama's character. Will he stand up for what's right and denounce Wright or will he stick to damage control policies and evade the issue. If it's the latter, he won't get my vote.
 
The petals have officially fallen off the flower. I was excited about Obama, but I think that somehow even if he gets the nomination, McCain will win the election. I don't have a lot of confidence in the American people.

 
The petals have officially fallen off the flower. I was excited about Obama, but I think that somehow even if he gets the nomination, McCain will win the election. I don't have a lot of confidence in the American people.
Its ok for the "next big thing" to lose its luster after a bit. Everything new does eventually...cars, video games, jobs, significant others ( :P ) The real question once that happens is: Do you still remember why you support his candidacy? Do you still believe he is the best choice?All this mud slinging and kitchen sink stuff is meant to do exactly that, take the shine off Obama. As for the impact on the general public, :bs: your guess is as good as mine. We will see though and it wont stop me from supporting who i feel is the best candidate
 
Re: Jeremiah Woods - As the other thread has predictably turned into a racial, and even regional fight, i'd like to discuss how everyone thinks this will impact Obama's campaign. Both now in the primary and, should he win the nomination, in the General.My overall take is that this will be bad, very very bad. I personally think that Obama is intelligent enough to decipher the good from the bad in this guys sermons. But, you cant have someone's preacher, someone who they supposedly look to for guidance (supposedly), being this far out there like Woods.I think this will give many fence sitters just enough push to at least not vote for Obama. It may not drive them to HRC or McCain, but it certainly cant encourage the majority of undecideds to get behind Obama. And should Obama win the primary, the GOP will be ALL over this story. Playing to the heart strings of patriots everywhere.just dont see how this one wont maintain legs for a while to come, and possibly become a main talking point amongst his opponents.
I welcome the GOP being all over this story. I'll take Wright's rhetoric over Hagee's.
To mention only one. Lots of folks on the GOP side to play this game with.
 
Re: Jeremiah Woods - As the other thread has predictably turned into a racial, and even regional fight, i'd like to discuss how everyone thinks this will impact Obama's campaign. Both now in the primary and, should he win the nomination, in the General.My overall take is that this will be bad, very very bad. I personally think that Obama is intelligent enough to decipher the good from the bad in this guys sermons. But, you cant have someone's preacher, someone who they supposedly look to for guidance (supposedly), being this far out there like Woods.I think this will give many fence sitters just enough push to at least not vote for Obama. It may not drive them to HRC or McCain, but it certainly cant encourage the majority of undecideds to get behind Obama. And should Obama win the primary, the GOP will be ALL over this story. Playing to the heart strings of patriots everywhere.just dont see how this one wont maintain legs for a while to come, and possibly become a main talking point amongst his opponents.
Generally speaking, I think it's better to be getting a lot of press now. Obviously many people will be put off, but I think over time most people will be able to separate out the fact that Obama clearly doesn't believe these things and that we aren't voting for the "Spiritual Advisers" of Presidents. The ones that can't make that distinction probably weren't going to vote for him anyway. It probably does hurt more in terms of the Democratic race, since we've gotten past the point of this being about issues about a month ago. All things being equal though, it's probably better that this is being talked about now rather than in the two or three days before PA. Most people will probably have forgotten about it by then.
I see this situation as a test of Obama's character. Will he stand up for what's right and denounce Wright or will he stick to damage control policies and evade the issue. If it's the latter, he won't get my vote.
He has already categorically denounced these positions.
 
Re: Jeremiah Woods - As the other thread has predictably turned into a racial, and even regional fight, i'd like to discuss how everyone thinks this will impact Obama's campaign. Both now in the primary and, should he win the nomination, in the General.My overall take is that this will be bad, very very bad. I personally think that Obama is intelligent enough to decipher the good from the bad in this guys sermons. But, you cant have someone's preacher, someone who they supposedly look to for guidance (supposedly), being this far out there like Woods.I think this will give many fence sitters just enough push to at least not vote for Obama. It may not drive them to HRC or McCain, but it certainly cant encourage the majority of undecideds to get behind Obama. And should Obama win the primary, the GOP will be ALL over this story. Playing to the heart strings of patriots everywhere.just dont see how this one wont maintain legs for a while to come, and possibly become a main talking point amongst his opponents.
I welcome the GOP being all over this story. I'll take Wright's rhetoric over Hagee's.
To mention only one. Lots of folks on the GOP side to play this game with.
Yeah but the crazy black guy will play better on TV than the crazy fat Fundy.
 
i may be one of the few repubs that doesn't give a rats ### what Obama's preacher says. Virtually every minister I've ever known is a humanist, anti war, anti George Bush, anti Republican, liberal guilt mongerer. I'm pretty sure my current priest is homosexual, or if not, extremely effeminate (think Lyle), holds some downright communist ideas about the world and hates capitalism. God forbid I ever run for office so my opponents can go dig up my priest and make me out as the bad guy.

really, this story is pretty pathetic and people that think its important aren't using cold logic. I'm much more interested in Obamas thoughts than his ministers.

 
i may be one of the few repubs that doesn't give a rats ### what Obama's preacher says. Virtually every minister I've ever known is a humanist, anti war, anti George Bush, anti Republican, liberal guilt mongerer. I'm pretty sure my current priest is homosexual, or if not, extremely effeminate (think Lyle), holds some downright communist ideas about the world and hates capitalism. God forbid I ever run for office so my opponents can go dig up my priest and make me out as the bad guy.really, this story is pretty pathetic and people that think its important aren't using cold logic. I'm much more interested in Obamas thoughts than his ministers.
:P
 
i may be one of the few repubs that doesn't give a rats ### what Obama's preacher says. Virtually every minister I've ever known is a humanist, anti war, anti George Bush, anti Republican, liberal guilt mongerer. I'm pretty sure my current priest is homosexual, or if not, extremely effeminate (think Lyle), holds some downright communist ideas about the world and hates capitalism. God forbid I ever run for office so my opponents can go dig up my priest and make me out as the bad guy.really, this story is pretty pathetic and people that think its important aren't using cold logic. I'm much more interested in Obamas thoughts than his ministers.
agreed...only problem is that logic appears to have no place in the kitchen sink
 
And now for something completely different:

Contest asks aspiring filmmakers to create TV ad promoting Obama

Calling all aspiring filmmakers, especially those who like Barack Obama.

MoveOn.org, the influential antiwar group that claims 3.2 million members, announced yesterday that it is holding a contest to create a 30-second television advertisement promoting the Democrat.

The prize: The spot will air nationally and the winner will get a $20,000 gift certificate for a camera and editing package.

After an online vote to pick 15 finalists. The judges include Boston-bred stars Ben Affleck and Matt Damon, whose low-budget movie "Good Will Hunting" launched them to stardom; filmmaker Oliver Stone; civil rights leader Jesse Jackson; and musicians John Legend, Moby, and Eddie Vedder.

In a Web video announcing the contest, dubbed "Obama in 30 seconds," Eli Pariser, MoveOn.org's executive director, says: "Grass-roots energy helped propel Barack Obama into victory after victory. And now we need your grass-roots creativity to help put Barack Obama over the top."

The group, which has endorsed Obama, held a contest in 2004 for ads opposing President Bush. The winner showed children picking up trash and working on assembly lines with the message: "Guess who's going to pay off President Bush's $1 trillion deficit?"

Entries must show Obama in a positive light, cannot mention Hillary Clinton, and can reference John McCain or Bush only in contrast to Obama.
Article
 
5) Hillary's qualified response on the assertion that Obama is a muslim.
Just to pick this one out as it's a hot one - what exactly did she say? J
This one was blown out of proportion, if the quote I have is right, and Clinton got a raw deal on it:
The entire "60 Minutes" exchange -- showing her effort to answer interrogator Steve Kroft's persistent questions -- would have been more instructive. Because, as in so many interrogations, an emphatic no -- when the investigator is looking for another answer -- is never enough.Mr. Kroft: "You don't believe that Sen. Obama is a Muslim?"Mrs. Clinton: "Of course not. I mean, you know, there is no basis for that. I take him on the basis of what he says. You know, there isn't any reason to doubt that."Kroft: "You said you take Sen. Obama at his word that he's not. . . . You don't believe that he's. . . ."Clinton: "No, no. There's nothing to base that on, as far as I know."Kroft: "It's just scurrilous . . .?"Clinton: "Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time."
Thanks Adonis.How many other accusations are accurate I wonder?J
Joe - are you seriously questioning whether the Clinton campaign has engaged in race-baiting, fear-mongering, divisive politics, and played the gender cad?
 
BuddyKnuckles said:
Arsenal of Doom said:
Mark Davis said:
Re: Jeremiah Woods - As the other thread has predictably turned into a racial, and even regional fight, i'd like to discuss how everyone thinks this will impact Obama's campaign. Both now in the primary and, should he win the nomination, in the General.My overall take is that this will be bad, very very bad. I personally think that Obama is intelligent enough to decipher the good from the bad in this guys sermons. But, you cant have someone's preacher, someone who they supposedly look to for guidance (supposedly), being this far out there like Woods.I think this will give many fence sitters just enough push to at least not vote for Obama. It may not drive them to HRC or McCain, but it certainly cant encourage the majority of undecideds to get behind Obama. And should Obama win the primary, the GOP will be ALL over this story. Playing to the heart strings of patriots everywhere.just dont see how this one wont maintain legs for a while to come, and possibly become a main talking point amongst his opponents.
Generally speaking, I think it's better to be getting a lot of press now. Obviously many people will be put off, but I think over time most people will be able to separate out the fact that Obama clearly doesn't believe these things and that we aren't voting for the "Spiritual Advisers" of Presidents. The ones that can't make that distinction probably weren't going to vote for him anyway. It probably does hurt more in terms of the Democratic race, since we've gotten past the point of this being about issues about a month ago. All things being equal though, it's probably better that this is being talked about now rather than in the two or three days before PA. Most people will probably have forgotten about it by then.
I doubt this one goes away for good. This is right in the Republican's wheelhouse when it comes to advertising campaigns. Don't underestimate the damage running an ad showing Obama's photo alongside a running clip of Woods' speeches could do in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, etc. come November.
Yeah, but by then most people will already know about this since it's getting wide press now. I think this is one of those stories that has the most impact the first time people hear it, and then gradually diminishes. In November I think most people will be wanting to hear about how we address the economy and the war in Iraq, and not really care about what anybody's former pastor said.
Hope you're right. So, the question begs to be asked...does HRC run with this in the days just before PA?
Ironically, given she has said she'll release her returns on April 15 (1 week before PA's primary), she could bypass releasing them and fuel this fire instead, delaying any direct criticism until weeks later (if at all).
 
BuddyKnuckles said:
Arsenal of Doom said:
Mark Davis said:
Re: Jeremiah Woods - As the other thread has predictably turned into a racial, and even regional fight, i'd like to discuss how everyone thinks this will impact Obama's campaign. Both now in the primary and, should he win the nomination, in the General.My overall take is that this will be bad, very very bad. I personally think that Obama is intelligent enough to decipher the good from the bad in this guys sermons. But, you cant have someone's preacher, someone who they supposedly look to for guidance (supposedly), being this far out there like Woods.I think this will give many fence sitters just enough push to at least not vote for Obama. It may not drive them to HRC or McCain, but it certainly cant encourage the majority of undecideds to get behind Obama. And should Obama win the primary, the GOP will be ALL over this story. Playing to the heart strings of patriots everywhere.just dont see how this one wont maintain legs for a while to come, and possibly become a main talking point amongst his opponents.
Generally speaking, I think it's better to be getting a lot of press now. Obviously many people will be put off, but I think over time most people will be able to separate out the fact that Obama clearly doesn't believe these things and that we aren't voting for the "Spiritual Advisers" of Presidents. The ones that can't make that distinction probably weren't going to vote for him anyway. It probably does hurt more in terms of the Democratic race, since we've gotten past the point of this being about issues about a month ago. All things being equal though, it's probably better that this is being talked about now rather than in the two or three days before PA. Most people will probably have forgotten about it by then.
I doubt this one goes away for good. This is right in the Republican's wheelhouse when it comes to advertising campaigns. Don't underestimate the damage running an ad showing Obama's photo alongside a running clip of Woods' speeches could do in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, etc. come November.
Yeah, but by then most people will already know about this since it's getting wide press now. I think this is one of those stories that has the most impact the first time people hear it, and then gradually diminishes. In November I think most people will be wanting to hear about how we address the economy and the war in Iraq, and not really care about what anybody's former pastor said.
Hope you're right. So, the question begs to be asked...does HRC run with this in the days just before PA?
Ironically, given she has said she'll release her returns on April 15 (1 week before PA's primary), she could bypass releasing them and fuel this fire instead, delaying any direct criticism until weeks later (if at all).
Yeah, I don't think she's going to release them, at least not to the extent we want her to. Hopefully the news media will hold her accountable. They've been all over her case lately with the race baiting and her rediculous statements that the FL and MI should count as-is, depite her earlier comments months ago to the contrary and signing a pledge not to participate in those states; a pledge she broke. Not that people care all that much. To Joe Sixpack all that matters is that they're afraid for their jobs and her last name in Clinton.
 
Here are a couple of articles from an anti-racist advocate about race and Obama...

Uh-Obama:Racism, White Voters and the Myth of Color-BlindnessBy Tim WiseMarch 6, 2008Here's a sentence I never thought I'd write, at least not as soon as I am now compelled to write it: It may well be the case that the United States is on its way to electing a person of color as President. Make no mistake, I realize the way that any number of factors, racism prominently among them, could derail such a thing from coming to fruition. Indeed, results from the Ohio Democratic primary suggest that an awful lot of white folks, especially rural and working-class whites, are still mightily uncomfortable with voting for such a candidate, at least partly because of race: One-fifth of voters in the state said race was important to their decision, and roughly six in ten of these voted for Hillary Clinton, which totals would then represent her approximate margin of victory over Barack Obama.But having said all that--and I think anyone who is being honest would have to acknowledge this as factual--we are far closer to the election of a person of color in a Presidential race than probably any of us expected. Obama's meteoric rise, from community organizer, to law professor, to Illinois state senator, to the U.S. Senate, and now, possibly, the highest office in the land, is something that could have been foreseen by few if any just a few years ago. Obama's undeniable charisma, savvy political instincts, passion for his work, and ability to connect with young voters (and not a few older ones as well) is the kind of thing you just don't see all that often. The fact that as a black man (or, as some may prefer, a man of biracial background) he has been able to catapult to the position in which he now finds himself makes the accomplishment even more significant. It does indeed mean something.But this is where things become considerably more complicated; the point at which one is forced to determine what, exactly, his success means (and doesn't mean) when it comes to the state of race, race relations, and racism in the United States. And it is at this point that so-called mainstream commentary has, once again, dropped the ball.On the one hand, many a voice has suggested that Obama's success signifies something akin to the end of racism in the U.S., if not entirely, then surely as a potent political or social force. After all, if a black man actually stands a better-than-decent shot at becoming President, then how much of a barrier could racism really be? But of course, the success of individual persons of color, while it certainly suggests that overt bigotry has diminished substantially, hardly speaks to the larger social reality faced by millions of others: a subject to which we will return. Just as sexism no doubt remained an issue in Pakistan, even after Benazir Bhutto became Prime Minister in the 1980s and again in the 90s (or in India or Israel after both nations had female Premiers, or in Great Britain after the election of Margaret Thatcher), so too can racism exist in abundance, in spite of the electoral success of one person of color, even one who could be elevated to the highest office in the world's most powerful nation.More importantly, to the extent Obama's success has been largely contingent on his studious avoidance of the issue of race--such that he rarely ever mentions discrimination and certainly not in front of white audiences--one has to wonder just how seriously we should take the notion that racism is a thing of the past, at least as supposedly evidenced by his ability to attract white votes? To the extent those whites are rewarding him in large measure for not talking about race, and to the extent they would abandon him in droves were he to begin talking much about racism--for he would be seen at that point as playing the race card, or appealing to "special interests" and suffer the consequences--we should view Obama's success, given what has been required to make it possible, as confirmation of the ongoing salience of race in American life. Were race really something we had moved beyond, whites would be open to hearing a candidate share factual information about housing discrimination, racial profiling, or race-based inequities in health care. But we don't want to be reminded of those things. We prefer to ignore them, and many are glad that Obama has downplayed them too, whether by choice, or necessity.Erasing Race and Making White Folks HappyThe extent to which Obama's white support has been directly related to his downplaying of race issues simply cannot be overstated, as evidenced by the kinds of things many of these supporters openly admit, possessing no sense of apparent irony or misgiving. So, consider the chant offered by his supporters at a recent rally--and frankly, a chant in which whites appeared to be joining with far greater enthusiasm than folks of color--to the effect that "Race Doesn't Matter, Race Doesn't Matter," a concept so utterly absurd, given the way in which race most certainly still matters to the opportunity structure in this country, that one has to almost wretch at the repeated offering of it. Or consider the statements of support put forth by Obama supporters in a November 2007 Wall Street Journal article, to the effect that Obama makes whites "feel good" about ourselves (presumably by not bothering us with all that race talk), and that Obama, by virtue of his race-averse approach has "emancipated" whites to finally vote for a black candidate (because goodness knows we were previously chained and enslaved to a position of rejectionism). Worst of all, consider the words of one white Obama supporter, an ardent political blogger in Nashville, to the effect that what he likes about the Illinois Senator is that he "doesn't come with the baggage of the civil rights movement." Let it suffice to say that when the civil rights movement--one of the greatest struggles for human liberation in the history of our collective species--can be unashamedly equated with Samsonite, with luggage, with something one should avoid as though it were radioactive (and this coming from a self-described liberal), we are at a very dangerous place as a nation, all celebrations of Obama's cross-racial appeal notwithstanding.What does it say about the nation's political culture--and what does it suggest about the extent to which we have moved "beyond race"--that candidate Obama, though he surely knows it, has been unable to mention the fact that 2006 saw the largest number of race-based housing discrimination complaints on record, and according to government and private studies, there are between two and three million cases of housing discrimination each year against people of color?What does it say that he has failed to note with any regularity that according to over a hundred studies, health disparities between whites and blacks are due not merely to health care costs and economic differences between the two groups (a subject he does address) but also due to the provision of discriminatory care by providers, even to blacks with upper incomes, and black experiences with racism itself, which are directly related to hypertension and other maladies?What does it say that Obama apparently can't bring himself to mention, for fear of likely white backlash, that whites are over seventy percent of drug users, but only about ten percent of persons incarcerated for a drug possession offense, while blacks and Latinos combined are about twenty-five percent of users, but comprise roughly ninety percent of persons locked up for a possession offense?Why no mention of the massive national study by legal scholars Alfred and Ruth Blumrosen, which found that at least a third of all businesses in the nation engage in substantial discrimination against people of color--hiring such folks at rates that are well below their availability in the local and qualified labor pool, and well below the rates at which they are to be found in non-discriminating companies in the same locales and industries? Indeed, according to the Blumrosen study, at least 1.3 million qualified people of color will face job discrimination in a given year. Or what of the study of temporary agencies in California, which found that white women who are less qualified than their black counterparts, are still three times more likely to be favored in a job search? And what are the odds that he'll be likely to mention, to any significant degree, the recent EEOC report, which notes that in 2007 there was a twelve percent jump in race-based discrimination complaints in the workplace relative to the previous year (almost all of which were filed by persons of color): bringing the number of such complaints to their highest level since 1994?As Obama talks about change and making the "American Dream" real for all, why is he unable to mention the fact--let alone propose specific remedies for it--that thanks to a history of unequal access to property and the inability to accumulate assets on par with whites, young black couples with college degrees and good incomes still start out at a significant disadvantage (around $20,000) relative to their white counterparts? In fact, the wealth gap between whites and blacks--with the average white family now having about eleven times the net worth of the average black family--continues to grow, even as income gaps for similarly educated families with similar background characteristics have shrunk.And why such muted discussion about the way that, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, government at all levels and across party lines has engaged in ethnic cleansing in New Orleans, failing to provide rental assistance to the mostly black tenant base for over a year, plotting to tear down 5000 perfectly usable units of public housing, failing to restart the city's public health care infrastructure, and even ordering the Red Cross not to provide relief in the first few days after the city flooded in September 2005, so as to force evacuation and empty out the city? While Obama has spoken much about the failures of the Bush Administration during Katrina, openly discussing the deliberate acts of cruelty that go well beyond incompetence, and which amount to the forced depopulation of New Orleans-area blacks, has been something about which he cannot speak for fear of prompting a backlash from whites, most of whom, according to polls, don't think the events of Katrina have any lessons at all to teach us about race in America.Surely, that Obama is constrained in his ability to focus any real attention on these matters, suggests that whatever his success may say about America and race, one thing it utterly fails to say is that we have conquered the racial demons that have so long bedeviled us. And to the extent he must remain relatively silent about these issues, lest he find his political ascent headed in a decidedly different direction, it is true, however ironic, that his success actually confirms the salience of white power. If, in order to be elected, a man of color has to pander to white folks, in ways that no white politician would ever have to do to people who were black or brown, then white privilege and white power remain operative realities. Obama's ascent to the Presidency, if it happens, will happen only because he managed to convince enough whites that he was different, and not really black, in the way too many whites continue to think of black people, which according to every opinion survey, is not too positively.Transcending Blackness, Reinforcing White Racism: The Trouble With ExceptionsObama's rise has owed almost everything to his ability--and this, again, coming from people who support him and are willing to speak candidly--to "transcend" race, which is really a way of saying, his ability to carve out an exception for himself in the minds of whites. But this notion of Obama "transcending race" (by which we really mean transcending his blackness) is a patently offensive and even racist notion in that it serves to reinforce generally negative feelings about blacks as a whole; feelings that the presence of exceptions cannot cancel out, and which they can even serve to reinforce. To the extent Obama has become the Cliff Huxtable of politics--a black man with whom millions of whites can identity and to whom they can relate--he has leapt one hurdle, only to watch his white co-countrymen and women erect a still higher one in the path of the black masses. If whites view Obama as having transcended his blackness, and if this is why we like him so much, we are saying, in effect, that the millions of blacks who haven't transcended theirs will remain a problem. To praise the transcending of blackness, after all, is to imply that blackness is something negative, something from which one who might otherwise qualify for membership ought to seek escape, and quickly.Note, never has a white politician been confronted with questions about his or her ability to transcend race, or specifically, their whiteness. And this is true, even as many white politicians continue to pull almost all of their support from whites, and have almost no luck at convincing people of color to vote for them. In the Democratic primaries this year, Obama has regularly received about half the white vote, while Hillary Clinton has managed to pull down only about one-quarter of the black vote, yet the question has always been whether he could transcend race. The only rational conclusion to which this points is, again, that it is not race per se that needs to be overcome, but blackness. Whiteness is not seen as negative, as something to be conquered or transcended. Indeed, whereas blacks are being asked to rise above their racial identity, for whites, the burden is exactly the opposite: the worst thing for a white person is to fail to live up to the ostensibly high standards set by whiteness; it is to be considered white trash, which is to say, to be viewed as someone who has let down whiteness and fallen short of its pinnacle. For blacks, the worst thing it seems (at least in the minds of whites) is to be seen as black, which is no doubt why so many whites think it's a compliment to say things to black folks like, "I don't even think of you as black," not realizing that the subtext of such a comment is that it's a damned good thing they don't, for if they did, the person so thought of would be up the proverbial creek for sure.In what must prove among the greatest ironies of all time, for Barack Obama to become President, which he well may accomplish, he will have to succeed in convincing a lot of racist white people to vote for him. Without the support of racists he simply can't win. While this may seem counterintuitive--that is, after all, what makes it ironic--it is really inarguable. After all, according to many an opinion survey in the past decade, large numbers of whites (often as high as one-half to three-quarters) harbor at least one negative and racist stereotype about African Americans, whether regarding their intelligence, law-abidingness, work ethic, or value systems. Without the votes of at least some of those whites (and keep in mind, that's how many whites are willing to admit to racist beliefs, which is likely far fewer than actually hold them), Obama's candidacy would be sunk. So long as whites can vote for a black man only to the extent that he doesn't remind them of other black people, it is fair to say that white people remain mired in a racism quite profound. To the extent we view the larger black community in terms far more hostile than those reserved for Obama, Oprah, Tiger, Colin, Condoleezza, Denzel and Bill (meaning Cosby, not Clinton, whose blackness is believed to be authentic only by himself nowadays), whites have proven how creative we can be, and how resourceful, when it comes to the maintenance of racial inequality.By granting exemptions from blackness, even to those black folks who did not ask for such exemptions (and nothing I have said here should be taken as a critique of Obama himself by the way, for whom I did indeed vote last month), we have taken racism to an entirely new and disturbing level, one that bypasses the old and all-encompassing hostilities of the past, and replaces them with a new, seemingly ecumenical acceptance in the present. But make no mistake, it is an ecumenism that depends upon our being made to feel good, and on our ability to glom onto folks of color who won't challenge our denial let alone our privileges, even if they might like to.In short, the success of Barack Obama has proven, perhaps more so than any other single thing could, just how powerful race remains in America. His success, far from disproving white power and privilege, confirms it with a vengeance.
 
here's his follow up article:

Another Batch of White Whine:Obama, Black Voters and the Myth of Reverse RacismBy Tim WiseMarch 11, 2008Somehow I knew it would happen. In fact, I had even made a note to myself, indicating how long I thought it might take: twenty-four hours was my guesstimate, in case you're interested. Turns out I was overly optimistic, because it only took about nine hours from the time that my latest essay hit cyberspace--a piece in which I discussed white support for Barack Obama and what it does and doesn't mean about race in America--until I received the first hostile response, offering the specific critique I had anticipated.In the original article, I had mentioned (almost in passing, but nonetheless within the first paragraph), that there were still lots of whites who are unwilling to vote for a person of color because of race. Indeed, exit polling from the Ohio primary suggested this clearly, given that one-fifth of voters said the candidate's race was important to their vote, and roughly six in ten who said this voted for Hillary Clinton. In other words--and this is just within the Democratic Party--literally hundreds of thousands of voters voted against Barack Obama and for Hillary Clinton because of race. Although this kind of voter racism may not be enough to deny Obama the party nomination, or even the Presidency, and although there are plenty of reasons other than race and racism why someone may vote for Clinton (or ultimately, John McCain), and against Obama, my point was simply that for many whites, race is still the deciding factor in their voting behavior.Yet I knew as soon as I wrote it what some would say in response. It's what lots of us white folks do whenever the specter of white racism is raised: namely, we try and change the subject and make ourselves into the victims, and black and brown folks into the perps. And there it was, in my e-mail box: the predictable and expected lamentations of white denial and victimhood."Funny how you try to spin those Ohio numbers," it began. "So if someone said race was important to their decision, and they voted for the white candidate, that's racism, but what about the forty percent who said race was important to their decision and voted for the black guy? Isn't that racism too, by your logic?""Oh no, of course not," the writer continued, "because those voters were probably mostly black themselves, while the Clinton voters who said race mattered were mostly white, and only whites can be racist, right?"In other words, if voting for a white person because of their race is racism, then so too must be voting for a black person because of theirs. So see, those black Obama boosters are every bit as racist as we are, maybe more so, because they're breaking his way by about eighty-five percent, while whites are splitting between Obama and Clinton by about fifty-fifty. So if anything, the e-mailer said, it was blacks who were more racist and whites whose voting behavior portended open-mindedness. And now that Obama has won the Mississippi primary, almost entirely due to the votes of blacks--and among those who said race mattered, nine in ten voted for him--this refrain will only become more prevalent, one supposes.Such an argument--which is really the political equivalent of "Why can't we have white history month, I mean, we have black history month?"--suggests how far we have to go in this nation simply to have a productive dialogue about race, let alone to really conquer racism.Simply put, there are any number of reasons why whites voting for a white candidate because of race is altogether different than blacks voting for a black candidate because of the same. For African American voters, voting for Barack Obama--a man of color who actually stands a chance of winning the Presidency--is an opportunity to participate in a major historic moment. The pride and excitement caused by such a possibility (even for black folks who might not agree with all of his positions, and who might wish he spoke more about issues like racism and discrimination) is completely understandable and to be expected. Just as millions of women as women are understandably excited about the possibility of a Hillary Clinton Presidency--because it would be a history-making first and a real breakthrough in terms of gender (at least symbolically)--and just as many Catholics were likely inspired to vote for JFK because of a shared religious background, so too are many people of color likely to hop on board the Obama train as a way to make a statement. So if black folks say race was important to their vote, and they voted for Obama, it is this sense of achievement, and "firstness" that likely animates them. That, and of course the fact that they really do believe him to be the best person for the job.Or if not the historicity of the moment, then perhaps black voters casting their ballots for Obama, and saying that race matters to their decision, were animated by a desire to elect someone who, because of his own identity, might better relate to their daily struggles. It would be nice, one imagines, to have a President who could understand because of some of his own life experiences, what it means to be a person of color in America. In that sense, identity and the experiences that such an identity likely gives a person, become bona fide qualifications and credentials in the eyes of persons sharing that identity.But one thing we can almost guarantee is not among the reasons why a black voter might say race matters to their vote, and then vote for the black candidate, is deep-seated anti-white bias. After all, black folks have been voting for white people for years. They have voted for white Presidential candidates, white Governors, and white Congressional candidates time and time again, seeing as how they are often given very little in the way of a choice. So it's not like black folks refuse to vote for white people. Indeed, the kind of black person whose anti-white biases were that deeply rooted, would probably be the kind of person for whom Obama would be unacceptable too (given his biracial ancestry, generally moderate positions, and fairly bland approach to addressing racial concerns), and who wouldn't vote for him, in spite of a shared skin color. In other words, we can rest assured that when blacks vote for Obama, after saying that race mattered to their vote, they were casting a ballot for the black man, not against the white woman per se.On the other hand, for a white voter to say race matters to their vote, and then to vote for the white candidate and against the person of color, is almost by definition about something else. It certainly can't be due to excitement at the prospect of electing the first white President, or breaking with tradition, since we've had forty-three white guys in a row. And it's not likely to be about the desire to vote for someone who can relate to their "struggles" as white people. After all, although there are millions of white people in the U.S. who are struggling to make ends meet, none of them are in that position because of their race, but rather in spite of it. So the "white struggle" as such simply doesn't exist. The class struggle is real--and if a white, working-class candidate stood a chance of winning the Presidency lots of white working class folks would turn out for him or her because of that shared experience, and understandably so--but it is simply silly to think that whites would vote for Hillary Clinton, after saying race mattered to their vote, because they think she will be more understanding about their plight as white people.What this leaves us is the very real likelihood that when whites say race mattered to their vote, and they voted for the white candidate over the candidate of color, the vote so cast was largely an anti-black vote. It wasn't cast for the white person out of some form of in-group bonding so much as it was cast against the man of color, as an act of out-group rejection. And given the way in which the Clinton campaign has made Obama's presumed inexperience and "lack of qualifications" the big issue in the primaries--and given how the "qualifications" trope plays so neatly into longstanding white biases about black ability and competence--it is hard to imagine any non-racist reason for someone to say "race matters" to their vote and then to cast it for Clinton.In the end it really is as simple as this: for persons belonging to groups that have been consistently subordinated to view the world through the lens of their group status is both predictable and rational. It would be hard, indeed, not to do so. One's identity as a subordinated group member shapes one's experiences to such an extent that it will naturally come to inform how one views the world, and how one operates within it. This has been true for all subordinated groups. Even those groups whose institutional subordination has largely ended in the U.S. (like Italian or Irish Americans, or Jews) often see the society through the frame of their particular ethnic experience--and certainly did so in generations past. So naturally, for persons of color whose subordination has continued to be institutionalized, engaging in acts of racial bonding makes sense. Voting for Obama may be one such act, for at least some black voters.But for members of groups that have not been subordinated to "think with their skin" or their racial identity is quite a bit different, and more problematic. For dominant group members to engage in racial bonding only makes sense as a way to maintain dominance. It can't be about "getting a piece of the pie," since such persons already have access to it, and pieces galore; rather, it has to be about preventing others from getting theirs, from taking parts of the pie to which the dominant group had come to feel entitled. It is not to seek a place at the table, but to seek to secure the table you already have from the intrusion of others. White bonding, in other words, amounts to racism because it is redundant: it amounts to having those who are already largely in control, secure that control in perpetuity. It results in the maintenance of racial inequity, unequal opportunity and massive disparities in access and life chances. Black and brown bonding, on the other hand, is about gaining access, securing a spot, and collectively lifting up members of subordinated communities to a place where they can compete as equals with those who have always been in charge. There is nothing supremacist or racist about that at all, unless one presumes that--as Jesse Jackson and others have long said--there is no fundamental difference between a "Welcome" mat and a "No Trespassing" sign.But there is a difference, in both practical and ethical terms. Those black voters (and for that matter non-black voters) who vote for Obama because of his race are striving for the welcome mat, however naive they may be in thinking that his victory would really open the door all that widely for others. Those white voters who vote for Clinton because of hers, on the other hand, are quite clearly continuing to hang the "No Blacks Need Apply" sign from their electoral window. And if we can't see the distinction between those two things, it becomes hard to imagine how we will ever conquer the larger racial inequities that continue to plague us as a nation. How indeed.
 
The petals have officially fallen off the flower. I was excited about Obama, but I think that somehow even if he gets the nomination, McCain will win the election. I don't have a lot of confidence in the American people.
Yep, the clock struck midnight. It's all pumpkins and ugly step sisters from here on out.
 
The petals have officially fallen off the flower. I was excited about Obama, but I think that somehow even if he gets the nomination, McCain will win the election. I don't have a lot of confidence in the American people.
Its ok for the "next big thing" to lose its luster after a bit. Everything new does eventually...cars, video games, jobs, significant others ( :ptts: ) The real question once that happens is: Do you still remember why you support his candidacy? Do you still believe he is the best choice?All this mud slinging and kitchen sink stuff is meant to do exactly that, take the shine off Obama. As for the impact on the general public, :bag: your guess is as good as mine. We will see though and it wont stop me from supporting who i feel is the best candidate
But this isn't mud slinging. This isn't "Clinton-machine" or "Rovian-tactics". Michelle Obama's comments about her pride in the country is the type of stuff that takes the shine off. I think this will do much more damage. The opponents don't even have to spin this. It's like someone in the McCain camp sat on the Office Depot Easy button.Clinton doesn't need an ad for PA:"It's 3 am and your children are safe . . . . but there's a crazy racist angry black man preaching . . . "
 
here's his follow up article:

Another Batch of White Whine:Obama, Black Voters and the Myth of Reverse RacismBy Tim WiseMarch 11, 2008Somehow I knew it would happen. In fact, I had even made a note to myself, indicating how long I thought it might take: twenty-four hours was my guesstimate, in case you're interested. Turns out I was overly optimistic, because it only took about nine hours from the time that my latest essay hit cyberspace--a piece in which I discussed white support for Barack Obama and what it does and doesn't mean about race in America--until I received the first hostile response, offering the specific critique I had anticipated.In the original article, I had mentioned (almost in passing, but nonetheless within the first paragraph), that there were still lots of whites who are unwilling to vote for a person of color because of race. Indeed, exit polling from the Ohio primary suggested this clearly, given that one-fifth of voters said the candidate's race was important to their vote, and roughly six in ten who said this voted for Hillary Clinton. In other words--and this is just within the Democratic Party--literally hundreds of thousands of voters voted against Barack Obama and for Hillary Clinton because of race. Although this kind of voter racism may not be enough to deny Obama the party nomination, or even the Presidency, and although there are plenty of reasons other than race and racism why someone may vote for Clinton (or ultimately, John McCain), and against Obama, my point was simply that for many whites, race is still the deciding factor in their voting behavior.Yet I knew as soon as I wrote it what some would say in response. It's what lots of us white folks do whenever the specter of white racism is raised: namely, we try and change the subject and make ourselves into the victims, and black and brown folks into the perps. And there it was, in my e-mail box: the predictable and expected lamentations of white denial and victimhood."Funny how you try to spin those Ohio numbers," it began. "So if someone said race was important to their decision, and they voted for the white candidate, that's racism, but what about the forty percent who said race was important to their decision and voted for the black guy? Isn't that racism too, by your logic?""Oh no, of course not," the writer continued, "because those voters were probably mostly black themselves, while the Clinton voters who said race mattered were mostly white, and only whites can be racist, right?"In other words, if voting for a white person because of their race is racism, then so too must be voting for a black person because of theirs. So see, those black Obama boosters are every bit as racist as we are, maybe more so, because they're breaking his way by about eighty-five percent, while whites are splitting between Obama and Clinton by about fifty-fifty. So if anything, the e-mailer said, it was blacks who were more racist and whites whose voting behavior portended open-mindedness. And now that Obama has won the Mississippi primary, almost entirely due to the votes of blacks--and among those who said race mattered, nine in ten voted for him--this refrain will only become more prevalent, one supposes.Such an argument--which is really the political equivalent of "Why can't we have white history month, I mean, we have black history month?"--suggests how far we have to go in this nation simply to have a productive dialogue about race, let alone to really conquer racism.Simply put, there are any number of reasons why whites voting for a white candidate because of race is altogether different than blacks voting for a black candidate because of the same. For African American voters, voting for Barack Obama--a man of color who actually stands a chance of winning the Presidency--is an opportunity to participate in a major historic moment. The pride and excitement caused by such a possibility (even for black folks who might not agree with all of his positions, and who might wish he spoke more about issues like racism and discrimination) is completely understandable and to be expected. Just as millions of women as women are understandably excited about the possibility of a Hillary Clinton Presidency--because it would be a history-making first and a real breakthrough in terms of gender (at least symbolically)--and just as many Catholics were likely inspired to vote for JFK because of a shared religious background, so too are many people of color likely to hop on board the Obama train as a way to make a statement. So if black folks say race was important to their vote, and they voted for Obama, it is this sense of achievement, and "firstness" that likely animates them. That, and of course the fact that they really do believe him to be the best person for the job.Or if not the historicity of the moment, then perhaps black voters casting their ballots for Obama, and saying that race matters to their decision, were animated by a desire to elect someone who, because of his own identity, might better relate to their daily struggles. It would be nice, one imagines, to have a President who could understand because of some of his own life experiences, what it means to be a person of color in America. In that sense, identity and the experiences that such an identity likely gives a person, become bona fide qualifications and credentials in the eyes of persons sharing that identity.But one thing we can almost guarantee is not among the reasons why a black voter might say race matters to their vote, and then vote for the black candidate, is deep-seated anti-white bias. After all, black folks have been voting for white people for years. They have voted for white Presidential candidates, white Governors, and white Congressional candidates time and time again, seeing as how they are often given very little in the way of a choice. So it's not like black folks refuse to vote for white people. Indeed, the kind of black person whose anti-white biases were that deeply rooted, would probably be the kind of person for whom Obama would be unacceptable too (given his biracial ancestry, generally moderate positions, and fairly bland approach to addressing racial concerns), and who wouldn't vote for him, in spite of a shared skin color. In other words, we can rest assured that when blacks vote for Obama, after saying that race mattered to their vote, they were casting a ballot for the black man, not against the white woman per se.On the other hand, for a white voter to say race matters to their vote, and then to vote for the white candidate and against the person of color, is almost by definition about something else. It certainly can't be due to excitement at the prospect of electing the first white President, or breaking with tradition, since we've had forty-three white guys in a row. And it's not likely to be about the desire to vote for someone who can relate to their "struggles" as white people. After all, although there are millions of white people in the U.S. who are struggling to make ends meet, none of them are in that position because of their race, but rather in spite of it. So the "white struggle" as such simply doesn't exist. The class struggle is real--and if a white, working-class candidate stood a chance of winning the Presidency lots of white working class folks would turn out for him or her because of that shared experience, and understandably so--but it is simply silly to think that whites would vote for Hillary Clinton, after saying race mattered to their vote, because they think she will be more understanding about their plight as white people.What this leaves us is the very real likelihood that when whites say race mattered to their vote, and they voted for the white candidate over the candidate of color, the vote so cast was largely an anti-black vote. It wasn't cast for the white person out of some form of in-group bonding so much as it was cast against the man of color, as an act of out-group rejection. And given the way in which the Clinton campaign has made Obama's presumed inexperience and "lack of qualifications" the big issue in the primaries--and given how the "qualifications" trope plays so neatly into longstanding white biases about black ability and competence--it is hard to imagine any non-racist reason for someone to say "race matters" to their vote and then to cast it for Clinton.In the end it really is as simple as this: for persons belonging to groups that have been consistently subordinated to view the world through the lens of their group status is both predictable and rational. It would be hard, indeed, not to do so. One's identity as a subordinated group member shapes one's experiences to such an extent that it will naturally come to inform how one views the world, and how one operates within it. This has been true for all subordinated groups. Even those groups whose institutional subordination has largely ended in the U.S. (like Italian or Irish Americans, or Jews) often see the society through the frame of their particular ethnic experience--and certainly did so in generations past. So naturally, for persons of color whose subordination has continued to be institutionalized, engaging in acts of racial bonding makes sense. Voting for Obama may be one such act, for at least some black voters.But for members of groups that have not been subordinated to "think with their skin" or their racial identity is quite a bit different, and more problematic. For dominant group members to engage in racial bonding only makes sense as a way to maintain dominance. It can't be about "getting a piece of the pie," since such persons already have access to it, and pieces galore; rather, it has to be about preventing others from getting theirs, from taking parts of the pie to which the dominant group had come to feel entitled. It is not to seek a place at the table, but to seek to secure the table you already have from the intrusion of others. White bonding, in other words, amounts to racism because it is redundant: it amounts to having those who are already largely in control, secure that control in perpetuity. It results in the maintenance of racial inequity, unequal opportunity and massive disparities in access and life chances. Black and brown bonding, on the other hand, is about gaining access, securing a spot, and collectively lifting up members of subordinated communities to a place where they can compete as equals with those who have always been in charge. There is nothing supremacist or racist about that at all, unless one presumes that--as Jesse Jackson and others have long said--there is no fundamental difference between a "Welcome" mat and a "No Trespassing" sign.But there is a difference, in both practical and ethical terms. Those black voters (and for that matter non-black voters) who vote for Obama because of his race are striving for the welcome mat, however naive they may be in thinking that his victory would really open the door all that widely for others. Those white voters who vote for Clinton because of hers, on the other hand, are quite clearly continuing to hang the "No Blacks Need Apply" sign from their electoral window. And if we can't see the distinction between those two things, it becomes hard to imagine how we will ever conquer the larger racial inequities that continue to plague us as a nation. How indeed.
Sorry but that's a weak article.J
 
5) Hillary's qualified response on the assertion that Obama is a muslim.
Just to pick this one out as it's a hot one - what exactly did she say? J
This one was blown out of proportion, if the quote I have is right, and Clinton got a raw deal on it:
The entire "60 Minutes" exchange -- showing her effort to answer interrogator Steve Kroft's persistent questions -- would have been more instructive. Because, as in so many interrogations, an emphatic no -- when the investigator is looking for another answer -- is never enough.Mr. Kroft: "You don't believe that Sen. Obama is a Muslim?"Mrs. Clinton: "Of course not. I mean, you know, there is no basis for that. I take him on the basis of what he says. You know, there isn't any reason to doubt that."Kroft: "You said you take Sen. Obama at his word that he's not. . . . You don't believe that he's. . . ."Clinton: "No, no. There's nothing to base that on, as far as I know."Kroft: "It's just scurrilous . . .?"Clinton: "Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time."
Thanks Adonis.How many other accusations are accurate I wonder?J
Joe - are you seriously questioning whether the Clinton campaign has engaged in race-baiting, fear-mongering, divisive politics, and played the gender cad?
I asked for specific examples. I wonder how many are like the muslim thing and really not much to them.J
 
5) Hillary's qualified response on the assertion that Obama is a muslim.
Just to pick this one out as it's a hot one - what exactly did she say? J
This one was blown out of proportion, if the quote I have is right, and Clinton got a raw deal on it:
The entire "60 Minutes" exchange -- showing her effort to answer interrogator Steve Kroft's persistent questions -- would have been more instructive. Because, as in so many interrogations, an emphatic no -- when the investigator is looking for another answer -- is never enough.Mr. Kroft: "You don't believe that Sen. Obama is a Muslim?"Mrs. Clinton: "Of course not. I mean, you know, there is no basis for that. I take him on the basis of what he says. You know, there isn't any reason to doubt that."Kroft: "You said you take Sen. Obama at his word that he's not. . . . You don't believe that he's. . . ."Clinton: "No, no. There's nothing to base that on, as far as I know."Kroft: "It's just scurrilous . . .?"Clinton: "Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time."
Thanks Adonis.How many other accusations are accurate I wonder?J
Joe - are you seriously questioning whether the Clinton campaign has engaged in race-baiting, fear-mongering, divisive politics, and played the gender cad?
I asked for specific examples. I wonder how many are like the muslim thing and really not much to them.J
Individually, probably most of them. I think Olbermann addressed it pretty well in his special comment, most of these are borderline issues but it's the pattern that is problematic. The fact that she isn't forcefully shutting down these things; or vocally is, as when her volunteers were circulating the "Obama is Musilm" e-mail before Iowa only to have a report of something similar right before OH and TX, calls into question if these are more deliberate than not.
 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.

As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.

Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.

Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.

For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.

 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.
You can't just preach to the choir, GB.
 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.
You can't just preach to the choir, GB.
And he doesn't have to win them over en masse. He just has to give them a reason to consider him for it to a be a win.
 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.
you going? If so, it will be interesting to see how it compared to HRC's stop there
 
Joe Bryant said:
5) Hillary's qualified response on the assertion that Obama is a muslim.
Just to pick this one out as it's a hot one - what exactly did she say? J
This one was blown out of proportion, if the quote I have is right, and Clinton got a raw deal on it:
The entire "60 Minutes" exchange -- showing her effort to answer interrogator Steve Kroft's persistent questions -- would have been more instructive. Because, as in so many interrogations, an emphatic no -- when the investigator is looking for another answer -- is never enough.Mr. Kroft: "You don't believe that Sen. Obama is a Muslim?"Mrs. Clinton: "Of course not. I mean, you know, there is no basis for that. I take him on the basis of what he says. You know, there isn't any reason to doubt that."Kroft: "You said you take Sen. Obama at his word that he's not. . . . You don't believe that he's. . . ."Clinton: "No, no. There's nothing to base that on, as far as I know."Kroft: "It's just scurrilous . . .?"Clinton: "Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time."
Thanks Adonis.How many other accusations are accurate I wonder?J
Joe - are you seriously questioning whether the Clinton campaign has engaged in race-baiting, fear-mongering, divisive politics, and played the gender cad?
I asked for specific examples. I wonder how many are like the muslim thing and really not much to them.J
Funny. Biggie gave you a list of several of the top of his head. You pulled one out of that list and determined there's not much to it. Now wonder if there's others. Why not go back to the several he's already given you? If people give you enough examples it seems like you can always pick one that's not as stong an example as the others and then go "Gee whiz are they all like this? Are there any others?" This is why you get questions like "Are you serious?". Even CASUAL observers have noticed the pattern.
 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.

As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.

Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.

Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.

For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.
you going? If so, it will be interesting to see how it compared to HRC's stop there
Society of Irish Women... my mother and aunts will be there though.

 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.

As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.

Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.

Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.

For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.
you going? If so, it will be interesting to see how it compared to HRC's stop there
Society of Irish Women... my mother and aunts will be there though.
They will be expected to post their impressions. Sorry that's just the way it is.
 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.

As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.

Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.

Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.

For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.
you going? If so, it will be interesting to see how it compared to HRC's stop there
Society of Irish Women... my mother and aunts will be there though.
:lmao: Trey's an irish name right (or Italian, whatever)? I dont make assumptions here
 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.
You can't just preach to the choir, GB.
And from reading speeches where Obama has preached to those opposed to his views, I've been highly impressed. I'd love to see a transcript or video of this talk, as usually he shines in his ability to get his message across to hostile (not outwardly, just ideologically) crowds.
 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.

As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.

Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.

Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.

For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.
you going? If so, it will be interesting to see how it compared to HRC's stop there
Society of Irish Women... my mother and aunts will be there though.
:shrug: Trey's an irish name right (or Italian, whatever)? I dont make assumptions here
Barack O'Bama
 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.

As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.

Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.

Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.

For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.
you going? If so, it will be interesting to see how it compared to HRC's stop there
Society of Irish Women... my mother and aunts will be there though.
:toilet: Trey's an irish name right (or Italian, whatever)? I dont make assumptions here
Barack O'Bama
Barney O'Bama
 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.

As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.

Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.

Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.

For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.
you going? If so, it will be interesting to see how it compared to HRC's stop there
Society of Irish Women... my mother and aunts will be there though.
:kicksrock: Trey's an irish name right (or Italian, whatever)? I dont make assumptions here
Barack O'Bama
More proof he is all things to all people :bow:

 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.

As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.

Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.

Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.

For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.
you going? If so, it will be interesting to see how it compared to HRC's stop there
Society of Irish Women... my mother and aunts will be there though.
:kicksrock: Trey's an irish name right (or Italian, whatever)? I dont make assumptions here
Barack O'Bama
More proof he is all things to all people :bow:
To me, he's just the black candidate.
 
Obama Elaborates on Rezko RelationshipBy Sarah WheatonSenator Barack Obama disclosed today that Antoin Rezko was a more substantial fund-raiser for his previous campaigns than originally established.In an interview with The Chicago Tribune today, Mr. Obama said that Mr. Rezko raised up to $250,000 for his past three political bids, about $100,000 more than initially believed.Mr. Rezko, currently undergoing trial for fraud, is a longtime Illinois Democratic operative and Obama friend. The senator and his wife have faced questions about real estate transactions in July with Mr. Rezko, who was under grand jury investigation at the time.“The mistake was he had been a contributor and somebody involved in politics,” Mr. Obama said to David Jackson about the land deal. In an extensive interview that he hoped would quell the lingering controversy over his relationship with Rezko, Obama said that voters concerned about his judgment should view it as “a mistake in not seeing the potential conflicts of interest.” But he added that voters should also “see somebody who is not engaged in any wrongdoing . . . and who they can trust.” Obama said that when he questioned Rezko about news reports of his questionable political dealings, his friend assured him there was nothing wrong. “My instinct was to believe him,” he said. Asked if he ever thought Rezko would expect something from their relationship, Obama was definitive. “No, precisely because I’d known him for [many] years and he hadn’t asked me for favors.” The interview marks the second major disclosure from Mr. Obama in as many days. On Thursday, he released all of his earmark requests and urged Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to do the same.
 
Re: Jeremiah Woods - As the other thread has predictably turned into a racial, and even regional fight, i'd like to discuss how everyone thinks this will impact Obama's campaign. Both now in the primary and, should he win the nomination, in the General.My overall take is that this will be bad, very very bad. I personally think that Obama is intelligent enough to decipher the good from the bad in this guys sermons. But, you cant have someone's preacher, someone who they supposedly look to for guidance (supposedly), being this far out there like Woods.I think this will give many fence sitters just enough push to at least not vote for Obama. It may not drive them to HRC or McCain, but it certainly cant encourage the majority of undecideds to get behind Obama. And should Obama win the primary, the GOP will be ALL over this story. Playing to the heart strings of patriots everywhere.just dont see how this one wont maintain legs for a while to come, and possibly become a main talking point amongst his opponents.
Generally speaking, I think it's better to be getting a lot of press now. Obviously many people will be put off, but I think over time most people will be able to separate out the fact that Obama clearly doesn't believe these things and that we aren't voting for the "Spiritual Advisers" of Presidents. The ones that can't make that distinction probably weren't going to vote for him anyway. It probably does hurt more in terms of the Democratic race, since we've gotten past the point of this being about issues about a month ago. All things being equal though, it's probably better that this is being talked about now rather than in the two or three days before PA. Most people will probably have forgotten about it by then.
I see this situation as a test of Obama's character. Will he stand up for what's right and denounce Wright or will he stick to damage control policies and evade the issue. If it's the latter, he won't get my vote.
He has already categorically denounced these positions.
I was referring to the man, not just the statements.
 
Re: Jeremiah Woods - As the other thread has predictably turned into a racial, and even regional fight, i'd like to discuss how everyone thinks this will impact Obama's campaign. Both now in the primary and, should he win the nomination, in the General.My overall take is that this will be bad, very very bad. I personally think that Obama is intelligent enough to decipher the good from the bad in this guys sermons. But, you cant have someone's preacher, someone who they supposedly look to for guidance (supposedly), being this far out there like Woods.I think this will give many fence sitters just enough push to at least not vote for Obama. It may not drive them to HRC or McCain, but it certainly cant encourage the majority of undecideds to get behind Obama. And should Obama win the primary, the GOP will be ALL over this story. Playing to the heart strings of patriots everywhere.just dont see how this one wont maintain legs for a while to come, and possibly become a main talking point amongst his opponents.
Generally speaking, I think it's better to be getting a lot of press now. Obviously many people will be put off, but I think over time most people will be able to separate out the fact that Obama clearly doesn't believe these things and that we aren't voting for the "Spiritual Advisers" of Presidents. The ones that can't make that distinction probably weren't going to vote for him anyway. It probably does hurt more in terms of the Democratic race, since we've gotten past the point of this being about issues about a month ago. All things being equal though, it's probably better that this is being talked about now rather than in the two or three days before PA. Most people will probably have forgotten about it by then.
I see this situation as a test of Obama's character. Will he stand up for what's right and denounce Wright or will he stick to damage control policies and evade the issue. If it's the latter, he won't get my vote.
He has already categorically denounced these positions.
I was referring to the man, not just the statements.
I think it's pretty clear he's not going to denounce the man. I think he's taking a hate the sin, love the sinner approach. I'm sure that denouncing/rejecting/condemning, etc the statements alone won't be enough for some. And I'm confident that Obama understands this.
 
Re: Jeremiah Woods - As the other thread has predictably turned into a racial, and even regional fight, i'd like to discuss how everyone thinks this will impact Obama's campaign. Both now in the primary and, should he win the nomination, in the General.

My overall take is that this will be bad, very very bad. I personally think that Obama is intelligent enough to decipher the good from the bad in this guys sermons. But, you cant have someone's preacher, someone who they supposedly look to for guidance (supposedly), being this far out there like Woods.

I think this will give many fence sitters just enough push to at least not vote for Obama. It may not drive them to HRC or McCain, but it certainly cant encourage the majority of undecideds to get behind Obama. And should Obama win the primary, the GOP will be ALL over this story. Playing to the heart strings of patriots everywhere.

just dont see how this one wont maintain legs for a while to come, and possibly become a main talking point amongst his opponents.
Generally speaking, I think it's better to be getting a lot of press now. Obviously many people will be put off, but I think over time most people will be able to separate out the fact that Obama clearly doesn't believe these things and that we aren't voting for the "Spiritual Advisers" of Presidents. The ones that can't make that distinction probably weren't going to vote for him anyway. It probably does hurt more in terms of the Democratic race, since we've gotten past the point of this being about issues about a month ago. All things being equal though, it's probably better that this is being talked about now rather than in the two or three days before PA. Most people will probably have forgotten about it by then.
I see this situation as a test of Obama's character. Will he stand up for what's right and denounce Wright or will he stick to damage control policies and evade the issue. If it's the latter, he won't get my vote.
He has already categorically denounced these positions.
I was referring to the man, not just the statements.
Controversial Minister removed from Campaign
 
Very very interesting campaign stop for Obama in Scranton, PA on Monday night.

As I said previously, Hillary Clinton is going to be in the parade tomorrow.

Well, Barack will be giving a speech at the Society of Irish Women dinner this coming Monday.

Interestingly enough, President Clinton will be giving a speech at the Irish Sons Dinner across the city.

For Obama, I found it very intriguing because his audience is overwhelming Pro-Hillary.
you going? If so, it will be interesting to see how it compared to HRC's stop there
Society of Irish Women... my mother and aunts will be there though.
:shrug: Trey's an irish name right (or Italian, whatever)? I dont make assumptions here
Barack O'Bama
:lmao:
 

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