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Official Corey Coleman - WR - Patriots (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter bud29
- Start date
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
Long term Gordon helps. Short term (lighting the league up right away) Gordon puts a significant limit on Coleman's upside because he simply won't see the targets necessary to achieve it.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
You really believe a guy who has barely played in 2 years is just going to step right back in? And on top of that the Browns are going to make Gordon the centerpiece? I mean time to get back to reality. The Browns will do everything they can to feed Coleman and make him successful. He's the guy they are building around for the future. Gordon is just there to help and he'll be long gone in 2 years--either out of the league or on a new team. If you think the Browns are putting much time game planning for Gordon or taking away from young wrs getting repetitions in practice to help him get back up to speed you are probably in for a rude awakening. He's a cheap fill-in who either gets it back together or not. Gordon has almost no effect on Coleman unless he came back and was the same player he was before all this, and the Browns decided to resign him, and he never got suspended again. Why would anyone believe any of that is going to happen nevermind all 3?
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Soulfly3
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
Yeah here's the deal. A lot of what you are saying is true that's why Gordon coming back helps Coleman long term. That wasn't what I post was in regards to though. Maybe you didn't even read it not sure. My post was in regards to Coleman lighting the league on fire from the get go. I don't see him doing that now because his short term ceiling is affected by Gordons return.
I like Coleman more than anybody on this board. Just like I liked David Johnson more than anybody on this board and LeVeon Bell more than anybody on this board. If I had the 1.01 pick this year I take Coleman over EE without hesitation but I'm tempering my projections with the Gordon news. He was looking at max 140-150 targets with Gordon out and that's asking a lot. I don't think he hits that ceiling very much. With Gordon back I'd put his ceiling on targets at 120 at most. It's hard to argue it's not a blow to his ceiling "this year". He will get to play against some #2 CB which will help him in the future.
Cleveland probably looks to move Gordon at some point this year if they can or in the offseason maybe. Then it's the Coleman show moving forward.
Interesting, not sure I agree there but I do think the talents are very similar.
At an ADP of 10.02, you can get better than that. He'll have a much better season than Kevin White who is going at 7.10. I think I'm willing to take Coleman in that range.
TripItUp
Footballguy
He just went 6.07 in my high stakes FFPC league...you won't find him in the 10th round in most competitive drafts with the current hype train.
bud29
Footballguy
bud29
Footballguy
Coleman may or may not end up being a better player than Cooper, who knows, but better eventual player =/= better prospect. Not only was Cooper very solid athletically (4.42, 6.71 3-cone, 3.98 shuttle), but he was also a technician - an extremely polished route runner, someone who you could plug into an NFL offense and immediately get a 1,000-yard season from. Coleman is obviously a more dynamic athlete, but his repertoire of routes at Baylor was not close to Cooper's at Alabama, nor close to what he's going to be expected to run in the NFL. Now I know, those same 9 routes he ran were all the routes he was asked to run, not all he can run. And if he can develop a really solid route tree, he could be great - but how many other players do you hear that about, only to see them never quite "get it?" The jump from a college spread system to the NFL is one that many WRs just don't make very well. Not saying Coleman will be one of those guys, he's looked very good so far, but there's a reason he was considered a mid-late 1st round prospect while Cooper went in the top 5.
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I'm a huge fan of Colemans, and I love the fact that Gordon is back so he lowers Colemans value in the eyes of many. I expect Coleman to be the true #1 there from day 1 and turn in an Amari Cooper like rookie year so I will have him on basically every one of my rosters (redraft).
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
All depends on how prepared JG is.
Last time he came off a long suspension he wasn't prepared, didn't know the system, was running the wrong routes and causing turnovers. He went from a high of 16 targets in his first game back to 13 then to 7, 4, and 7 before he got suspended the final for violating team rules.
Now after so long an absence, he has to prove his body is in 'football shape' and since he showed up with a quad injury and hasn't practiced he is missing valuable reps and we can't evaluate where he's at in terms of knowing the system.
Bottom line, I anticipate rust.
If/when Gordon is back and in football shape and he's running the right routes etc. He is the unquestioned #1 X-WR. When does that happen? I doubt it happens the minute he is reinstated after he serves his four-game suspension. He has to get healthy and get practice reps ASAP.
So if/when JG is back yadda-yadda-yadda, then the team would want JG AND Coleman on the field at the same time so Coleman would move to flanker Z-WR.
I'm sure Coleman will see tons of opportunities and that he will be moved around but he's a rookie and so far he's only be operating as the X. He has caught on quickly considering he comes from Baylor's spread and didn't have a playbook and he wasn't running a full route tree. IOWs, it wouldn't be an optimal situation to move him around a lot as a rookie when he's got a lot on his plate already but I do think he is going to see more opportunities than the skeptics are harping on about.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
He's a great prospect... best comps I've got are Steve Smith and OBJr. Coleman is a lot more explosive than both, but I'm not sure if that helps or not in a guy that size.
Definitely think it's possible he bursts onto the scene Moss/OBJ style and asserts himself as the #1 by Week 5. Either way, Gordon won't be a problem long-term if he's really good.
Definitely think it's possible he bursts onto the scene Moss/OBJ style and asserts himself as the #1 by Week 5. Either way, Gordon won't be a problem long-term if he's really good.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Gordon isn't healthy or practicing now and he wasn't allowed in the facility or any camp leading up to training camp where all of the installs for the new offense took place.
JG has never been a good practice player and has been criticized many times from multiple sources for being lackadaisical in practice.
Browns owner Jimmy Haslam came out and said the team will have zero tolerance for behavior when JG was reinstated.
Hue didn't want anything to do with Johnny Manziel and got rid of him. JG hasn't distanced himself from JFF.
Gordon is on precipitously thin ice.
Milkman
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
Antonio Brown = 5'10" 186
Corey Coleman = 5'11" 194
OBJ = 5'11" 198
Steve Smith = 5'9" 179
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
You literally couldn't pick two more different WRs in terms of explosion.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Too many moving parts in the equation.
We need to see Coleman and RG facing a real NFL starting defense and we won't see that till week 1.
We don't know how the rest of the receiving corps shakes out.
JG has a soft tissue injury and those sorts of things tend to happen with guys who have not played in awhile so he may has issues with different things through the year.
Barnidge is recovering from a sports injury.
The running game is still a bit of a mystery.
The offensive line is in transition.
We haven't seen Hue's offense.
JG was the only game in town a few years ago when he blew up. He was the primary target and he produced with terrible QB play but now the 'potential' options in Hue Jackson's offense...
How can anyone make an accurate prediction?
bud29
Footballguy
All this after burning Justin Gilbert in a preseason scrimmage. I like Coleman, own him in a couple leagues, but we might want to pump the brakes a bit here, folks.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Looked like Smith/OBJ to me after the combine (not perfect, but closest). Got drafted #15 as first WR off the board. Ripping it up day after day in camp. No idea why I'd pump the brakes now. Looks like he might be who I thought he was. Pretty excited to be on board the train.
TripItUp
Footballguy
How high would you draft him?
And do you think his QB/offense limits his upside in redrafts?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Maybe so. There are certainly differences. I can't sort out how much they matter (best guess -- not much), but they're there if you want to put weight on them.
In rookie drafts I'd draft him #1 if I had to. Elliott meant that I never had to though -- so picked him up #2 to #4 in most of my leagues. Haven't done a dynasty startup in three years, so not sure where I'd slot him in one of those.
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TripItUp
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I'm a terrible redrafter -- I just can't ever bring myself to be talent agnostic.
So I'd probably draft him earlier than he's currently projected, but I'm seriously the last person you should take advice from on that.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Just wondering what homers are projecting for him...he's currently overvalued in redrafts IMHO...ADP creeping into the 6th round.
I'll be keeping a close eye on him in the preseason, if he and RG3 develop a rapport I could see him maybe delivering 6th round value, however at this point I find it unlikely.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I have Coleman rated higher out of college than I did ODB, by a small margin.
Now, what ODB has done in the NFL will be extremely difficult for Coleman to match. But, with his skillset, and if JG drains all the #1 coverage, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility.
Now, what ODB has done in the NFL will be extremely difficult for Coleman to match. But, with his skillset, and if JG drains all the #1 coverage, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility.
Milkman
Footballguy
Actually it is if JG is there. There is 0% chance he's as good as ODB being the #2 on any other team in the league. The only way it's even possible for Coleman to put up ODB like numbers for a full season is for him to see 150+ targets. That's a task that seems impossible in this offense as a the #2 WR.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Plus josh gordon hasnt played in like two years and was pretty mediocre when he did play last. Counting on gordon for anything is foolish.
Ride corey i say!!
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Certainly.
Part of the concern is about Coleman being a rookie and that if he practices and plays at the X position all preseason, then in the first four games, that there may be an adjustment period if he moves to the flanker position after Josh Gordon comes back and presumably plays the X.
I don't think that is a big deal really and as Bracie and I concur is that Coleman is likely better suited for the Flanker, where he can be sent in motion more and does not have to be on the line of scrimmage before the snap.
There is no guarantee that Gordon will start right away coming off of the suspension. Especially if other players are playing well besides Coleman.
Given that Coleman will have a four game head start at least on Gordon. It is pretty safe to guess that Coleman will outperform Gordon in 2016.
The concern would be that perhaps Colemans targets decrease somewhat if Gordon is playing very well once he returns.
The historical use of WR in Hue Jackson's offense favors the X WR over the Z WR. But that may just be because AJ Green is a lot better WR than the other players they had. Not necessarily intrinsic in the scheme.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
He's baaaack at practice in Tampa Bay against the Bucs.
Look at what he did a few minutes ago.
I think his hamstring is fine by the looks of this quick video.
https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/768484097543008256
Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot 7m7 minutes ago
Watch#Browns Corey Coleman hurdle the fence at the end of this video
Oh, and he's playing in this week's preseason game according to MKC:
Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot 32m32 minutes ago
#Browns hue Jax says coleman pryor and Gordon will make debut together Friday: "that sounds good"
Look at what he did a few minutes ago.
I think his hamstring is fine by the looks of this quick video.
https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/768484097543008256
Mary Kay Cabot
Watch
Oh, and he's playing in this week's preseason game according to MKC:
Mary Kay Cabot
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
First NFL catch was a ridiculous 58 yarder where he split 3 defensive backs but he had at least one bad drop and in general, he looked lost in his first game.
He definitely is still learning and not quite up to speed.
Look for improvement over the course of the year as he learns and for the big plays but it seems he will always have issues with drops.
The outside factor(s) that could impact his game are Terrell Pryor and how he develops and when Josh Gordon comes back but Coleman should still see the field once/if everything comes together.
Bottom line. He's a rookie and a work in progress and should develop over the course of the season.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
When Gordon comes back it will be nice to see Hawkins on the bench. Go Corey !!
