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Official Corey Coleman - WR - Patriots (2 Viewers)

Andy Dufresne said:
Bad players switching bad teams don't turn them into good players.
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First, you can’t really call Buffalo a “bad team” when they made the playoffs last year... just a bad team for fantasy.

Second, sometimes it’s not the player that was bad, but the fit.  Collins’ vision based running style was a very poor fit for Seattle’s “hit the assigned hole and trust it will open up” rushing offensive scheme.  He was released and then thrived under a different scheme.

I really have not followed Coleman at all since the Browns drafted him, so I don’t know why he dropped from a first round to future seventh round value so quickly.

That said, to me this trade would tell me two things if I was a Coleman dynasty owner... one bad news one good news:

1.  His current fantasy value is negligible.

2.  ... but he has a better chance at increasing that value post trade.

On Buffalo, they kind of remind me of the Moneyball A’s in Oakland.  They appear to repeatedly make decisions that violate traditional axioms of building a winning NFL team.  However, at least so far,  it seems to be working for them.  

That said, NFL success does not mean fantasy success.  Other than McCoy (but only at well below market price) I am steering clear of Buff until I can get a better read on how they plan to move the ball/win games.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Bad players switching bad teams don't turn them into good players.
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Robert woods disagrees 

Coleman was a really nice looking prospect. It sounds like he partied too hard and didn't put the effort in. So maybe he's a bad player in that sense.  But he's still very young and has the talent to bounce back.  I'd be pleasantly surprised if he does but won't invest much in him. 

 
bostonfred said:
Robert woods disagrees 

Coleman was a really nice looking prospect. It sounds like he partied too hard and didn't put the effort in. So maybe he's a bad player in that sense.  But he's still very young and has the talent to bounce back.  I'd be pleasantly surprised if he does but won't invest much in him. 
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Robert Woods is the same adequate WR he was in Buffalo.

He caught 40/65/47/51 passes in four years in Buffalo and 56 for the Rams.

People are way overplaying the "breakout" angle in Woods' performance last year.

Sorry. Not buying that comparison.

 
Brisco54 said:
First, you can’t really call Buffalo a “bad team” when they made the playoffs last year... just a bad team for fantasy.

Second, sometimes it’s not the player that was bad, but the fit.  Collins’ vision based running style was a very poor fit for Seattle’s “hit the assigned hole and trust it will open up” rushing offensive scheme.  He was released and then thrived under a different scheme.
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Low draft picks and undrafted guys getting cut in their first couple training camps is not at all the same thing as a former 1st round pick getting traded for less than peanuts by the team who is most invested in his success that has seen his entire career up close so far. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Robert Woods is the same adequate WR he was in Buffalo.

He caught 40/65/47/51 passes in four years in Buffalo and 56 for the Rams.

People are way overplaying the "breakout" angle in Woods' performance last year.

Sorry. Not buying that comparison.
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56/781/5 in 12 games is pace for 75/1040/7.  That's better than adequate.

There's other examples of bad or adequate receivers finding new homes and doing better, especially if they were coming from a team where they were buried on depth charts with bad passing offenses and got hurt early in their career.  

Let's just call it a moot point about woods, and agree that Coleman is unlikely to turn studly in buffalo. Possible, but it would be an outlier. 

 
bostonfred said:
56/781/5 in 12 games is pace for 75/1040/7.  That's better than adequate.
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You should do that for the other three seasons where he played less than 16 games. 

Anyway, you're right that there's examples of guys doing better. Seems we agree that Coleman won't be the latest.

 
Brisco54 said:
First, you can’t really call Buffalo a “bad team” when they made the playoffs last year... just a bad team for fantasy.

Second, sometimes it’s not the player that was bad, but the fit.  Collins’ vision based running style was a very poor fit for Seattle’s “hit the assigned hole and trust it will open up” rushing offensive scheme.  He was released and then thrived under a different scheme.

I really have not followed Coleman at all since the Browns drafted him, so I don’t know why he dropped from a first round to future seventh round value so quickly.

That said, to me this trade would tell me two things if I was a Coleman dynasty owner... one bad news one good news:

1.  His current fantasy value is negligible.

2.  ... but he has a better chance at increasing that value post trade.

On Buffalo, they kind of remind me of the Moneyball A’s in Oakland.  They appear to repeatedly make decisions that violate traditional axioms of building a winning NFL team.  However, at least so far,  it seems to be working for them.  

That said, NFL success does not mean fantasy success.  Other than McCoy (but only at well below market price) I am steering clear of Buff until I can get a better read on how they plan to move the ball/win games.
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Not being sarcastic and trolling here, but serious question.  I'm curious how you see whatever the Bills are doing is working for them?

Sure they won 9 games last year so technically it was a winning record and they (briefly) made the playoffs, but they traded away the starting QB that got them there (after the questionable decision to bench him for Peterman) and their record is about the same over the past four seasons.

 
Avery said:
Not being sarcastic and trolling here, but serious question.  I'm curious how you see whatever the Bills are doing is working for them?

Sure they won 9 games last year so technically it was a winning record and they (briefly) made the playoffs, but they traded away the starting QB that got them there (after the questionable decision to bench him for Peterman) and their record is about the same over the past four seasons.
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Well, the Bills did make some very aggressive and unusual moves last offseason, trading their best WR (Watkins) and their best CB (Darby), trading for Benjamin midseason etc.  Odd moves for an NFL team to make.  I don't think we have any way of knowing at this point whether the Bills are truly going in the right direction, I agree with you.

I think if you had a real off-the-record chat with either Brandon Beane or Sean McDermott, they would've told you there's no way in hell they expected to make the playoffs last season.  That team was fine, not awful, but they had really no business making the playoffs.  In fact, those offseason moves look like a team who is pretty convinced they're not winning any time soon.  The staff was probably as surprised as the fans.

This year we've continued to see the Bills building for the future.  Trading Taylor and replacing him with Allen and McCarron is an absolute downgrade in the immediate term, no doubt.  But in Taylor, they moved a player who doesn't fit the long-term strategy and bet the house on Josh Allen.  I don't really love the Allen pick, but I can't fault the staff for putting the pieces they want in place, rather than cobbling together a piecemeal team as previous regimes have done.  We'll have to see how it works.

As for the Coleman trade, I can't really find any fault in it from the Bills perspective.  Guy clearly has some natural ability, but injuries, drop problems, and who the hell knows what else comes along with it.  Wouldn't surprise me if the Bills try to deal him immediately or end up cutting him at the end of camp if he doesn't fit the "culture".  They traded Watkins because he didn't fit the culture, they'll dump Coleman in a heartbeat if they have to.  But if he's even a #3 caliber WR on this team, it's still better than the average output of the 7th rounder they gave up.  And if it doesn't work, :shrug: , at least they tried to upgrade the position.  

 
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Steve Tasker said:
Well, the Bills did make some very aggressive and unusual moves last offseason, trading their best WR (Watkins) and their best CB (Darby), trading for Benjamin midseason etc.  Odd moves for an NFL team to make.  I don't think we have any way of knowing at this point whether the Bills are truly going in the right direction, I agree with you.

I think if you had a real off-the-record chat with either Brandon Beane or Sean McDermott, they would've told you there's no way in hell they expected to make the playoffs last season.  That team was fine, not awful, but they had really no business making the playoffs.  In fact, those offseason moves look like a team who is pretty convinced they're not winning any time soon.  The staff was probably as surprised as the fans.

This year we've continued to see the Bills building for the future.  Trading Taylor and replacing him with Allen and McCarron is an absolute downgrade in the immediate term, no doubt.  But in Taylor, they moved a player who doesn't fit the long-term strategy and bet the house on Josh Allen.  I don't really love the Allen pick, but I can't fault the staff for putting the pieces they want in place, rather than cobbling together a piecemeal team as previous regimes have done.  We'll have to see how it works.

As for the Coleman trade, I can't really find any fault in it from the Bills perspective.  Guy clearly has some natural ability, but injuries, drop problems, and who the hell knows what else comes along with it.  Wouldn't surprise me if the Bills try to deal him immediately or end up cutting him at the end of camp if he doesn't fit the "culture".  They traded Watkins because he didn't fit the culture, they'll dump Coleman in a heartbeat if they have to.  But if he's even a #3 caliber WR on this team, it's still better than the average output of the 7th rounder they gave up.  And if it doesn't work, :shrug: , at least they tried to upgrade the position.  
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I agree that the Coleman trade has little downside.  Giving away a 7th rounder is virtually meaningless.  There needs to be very little reward here to justify the risk and the reward could be high.

I'm more overall questioning the theory that they are "Moneyballing" the NFL here just because they are making "unconventional" moves.  The guy playing the recorder in the subway for change has chosen an unconventional path to musical stardom but it doesn't mean it's a good one. ;)  
 

 
Avery said:
I agree that the Coleman trade has little downside.  Giving away a 7th rounder is virtually meaningless.  There needs to be very little reward here to justify the risk and the reward could be high.

I'm more overall questioning the theory that they are "Moneyballing" the NFL here just because they are making "unconventional" moves.  The guy playing the recorder in the subway for change has chosen an unconventional path to musical stardom but it doesn't mean it's a good one. ;)  
 
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I don’t think they are “moneyballing” or “sabermetricing”. Allen and Benjamin are clear outliers for that thought process. As is trading away a ton of assets for Allen and Edmunds. Hardcore stats guys love Tyrod Taylor’s efficiency and they did everything they could to justify benching and trading him. Brian Daboll, as mentioned previously, has lead historically bad offenses for this era. People want to criticize Schottenheimer for following his fathers philosophy well Daboll may as well be coming from Paul Brown for his ideas. It’s like they are attempting to lose but now will have no draft picks when they actually do. I don’t think their FO has a clue. They want to be portrayed as “moneyball” even going so far as attempting to steal the 76ers “Trust the Process” but all I’ve seen is complete and total ineptitude with the exception of this trade with another team who has shown the same thing, except for the past two decades. I think McDermott is clearly a talented defensive mind but I don’t know how the hell he’ll ever succeed with what they are building on offense.

 
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Bojang0301 said:
Well I think Josh Allen, Nathan Peterman and AJ McCarron are all dog ####. I’m not sure Brian Daboll has had a passer over 2500 yds passing and it’s 50/50 on whether I’m joking about that stat.
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Buffalo... the elephant graveyard of WRs...

Where did I leave that Bourbon?

 
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Avery said:
Not being sarcastic and trolling here, but serious question.  I'm curious how you see whatever the Bills are doing is working for them?

Sure they won 9 games last year so technically it was a winning record and they (briefly) made the playoffs, but they traded away the starting QB that got them there (after the questionable decision to bench him for Peterman) and their record is about the same over the past four seasons.
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They made the playoffs.  That’s a positive step.  

Maybe it’s a one shot deal.  I dunno.

i just remember about a year ago when everything I read said that the Bills were destroying team by making multiple bad football decisions.  ESPN predicted a 4-12 season.  I bought into that zeitgeist.

Then they make the playoffs for the first time in forever.   

Once bitten, twice shy.

 
Brisco54 said:
They made the playoffs.  That’s a positive step.  

Maybe it’s a one shot deal.  I dunno.

i just remember about a year ago when everything I read said that the Bills were destroying team by making multiple bad football decisions.  ESPN predicted a 4-12 season.  I bought into that zeitgeist.

Then they make the playoffs for the first time in forever.   

Once bitten, twice shy.
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They were extremely fortunate to play in a conference with at best 4 good teams. Teams like the 2017 Titans and Bills don’t sniff playoff contention in most years. Had the Bills been in the NFC, it’s doubtful they finish better than 6-10.

 
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports Corey Coleman "pondered his options" before reporting to the Bills.

Coleman's only other option would have been not to play NFL football in 2018, so it's not a surprise he's shown up. Going from a 1-31 team to arguably the league's weakest passing attack is surely deflating but it is still ultimately a positive move for Coleman after the Browns' coaching staff gave up on him. Although he's begun to be labeled a bust, Coleman is still only 24, and his NFL injury history has been fluky. Even with Josh Allen or A.J. McCarron, Coleman could get his career on track this season.

Related: Browns

Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter 

Aug 7 - 2:14 PM
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He went from the Browns to the Bills. Not quite a step down but considering the new moves Cleveland did I can see where he would be unhappy. But still, dude was questioning his life decisions...

I can guarantee you now he's smiling doe. 

 
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Follow-up by Schefter shortly after the previous tweet:

Multiple people, including Coleman, say this is not true, and he did not balk about going to Buffalo. He found out Sunday night and drove to Rochchester at 7 am Monday. Transaction was submitted to NFL at 1 pm. Coleman’s a Bill. https://t.co/rUhHjHIU22

 
Brisco54 said:
They made the playoffs.  That’s a positive step.  

Maybe it’s a one shot deal.  I dunno.

i just remember about a year ago when everything I read said that the Bills were destroying team by making multiple bad football decisions.  ESPN predicted a 4-12 season.  I bought into that zeitgeist.

Then they make the playoffs for the first time in forever.   

Once bitten, twice shy.
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Plus Coleman has experience working with a wildly inaccurate quarterback that has no idea what he's doing.

 
bostonfred said:
It sounds like he partied too hard and didn't put the effort in. 
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Is this a thing? I'd never heard of it before. 

I'm intrigued by Coleman: He had two fluke injuries and was mis-used by the Browns. He's only 6 months older than Calvin Ridley.  Buffalo is probably one of the worst possible situations, but it'll still be interesting to see how he does with the reps.

ETA: Also I am not a Kelvin believer. He's an average at best NFL WR.

 
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I'm biased because I went to Baylor but giving up on a talent like this so soon is completely and utterly Cleveland. I'm THRILLED he's out of there.

 
oddsbodkins said:
I'm biased because I went to Baylor but giving up on a talent like this so soon is completely and utterly Cleveland. I'm THRILLED he's out of there.
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If the coaches were talking to him like that then leaving Cleveland is definitely a bump for him, but landing in Buffalo has to be the smallest bump possible. 

 
FF Ninja said:
If the coaches were talking to him like that then leaving Cleveland is definitely a bump for him, but landing in Buffalo has to be the smallest bump possible. 
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Using the phrase "in your chest" is laughable.  It really shows how much in the dog house Coleman was...   Now, if they were more specific about the route run or some other technique issue, I could buy it...   Funny thing is that I bet the coach actually believes it...

 
FF Ninja said:
If the coaches were talking to him like that then leaving Cleveland is definitely a bump for him, but landing in Buffalo has to be the smallest bump possible. 
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I don't necessarily think Coleman is a hard worker, but good leaders know how to get the most out of their players. Not because they like the players or want the players to succeed, but because they, the coaches,  want to win. These clowns have created a culture of losing, because it's more about them than the team. Cleveland will suck no matter what kind of players they bring in until they ditch this self serving idiotic coaching staff.

 
Mark Football said:
I don't necessarily think Coleman is a hard worker, but good leaders know how to get the most out of their players. Not because they like the players or want the players to succeed, but because they, the coaches,  want to win. These clowns have created a culture of losing, because it's more about them than the team. Cleveland will suck no matter what kind of players they bring in until they ditch this self serving idiotic coaching staff.
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I was one of the people that thought Hue Jackson was a good hire after his work with the Bengals.  :bag:

Was that a fluke? Dalton was playing so well in 2015. 

 
Really torn on this one.  Usually being dumped or cut by a team is the kiss of death for a young player.  But based on those Hard Knocks clips the coaching staff had turned him into a whipping boy -- criticizing him as the DB held him for 20 yards down the field; "in the chest"; etc -- and, well, it's Todd Haley and the Browns.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Really torn on this one.  Usually being dumped or cut by a team is the kiss of death for a young player.  But based on those Hard Knocks clips the coaching staff had turned him into a whipping boy -- criticizing him as the DB held him for 20 yards down the field; "in the chest"; etc -- and, well, it's Todd Haley and the Browns.
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Probably a lot of blame on both sides. But the Bills? That's some QB group they have. Something very unexpected needs to happen for them to be the second worst in the league and it's not changing anytime soon.

 
Corey Coleman is expected to play with the second-team offense against the Browns on Friday.

Acquired from the Browns just over a week ago, it is poetic he will get his first action as a Bill in Cleveland. Coleman has the talent to win a roster spot, but he faces an uphill climb to learn the playbook well enough to be a contributor before Week 1. "We’re getting to the point now where it needs to be the former in terms of ‘here’s the playbook, you’ve got to know it,'" coach Sean McDermott said. On the bright side, Coleman only has to beat out the likes of Rod Streater for a roster spot.

Source: The Athletic 

Aug 16 - 12:49 PM
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Really torn on this one.  Usually being dumped or cut by a team is the kiss of death for a young player.  But based on those Hard Knocks clips the coaching staff had turned him into a whipping boy -- criticizing him as the DB held him for 20 yards down the field; "in the chest"; etc -- and, well, it's Todd Haley and the Browns.
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Thomas Jones and Alex Collins come to mind, but having a hard time thinking of a WR. Maybe Brandon Lloyd?

 
ScottNorwood said:
Interesting that he's going to be in with the 2nd team, along with Josh Allen....
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When you think about what Coleman is good at and what Allen is good at, it makes a lot of sense. If the long term plan is Allen, it's a great sign for Coleman that the Bills are making a clear effort to match the two of them together. You know that 2 60+ yard bombs in preseason game 1 that Foster just couldn't catch up to? Now imagine Coleman's speed on those two passes (and the ball clanging off his hands, lmao).

 
GroveDiesel said:
When you think about what Coleman is good at and what Allen is good at, it makes a lot of sense. If the long term plan is Allen, it's a great sign for Coleman that the Bills are making a clear effort to match the two of them together. You know that 2 60+ yard bombs in preseason game 1 that Foster just couldn't catch up to? Now imagine Coleman's speed on those two passes (and the ball clanging off his hands, lmao).
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And breaking a bone in it on the drop.

 
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