*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (18 Viewers)

[GoBirds]

This has been one of the things I've noticed - kids seem to be fine with masks, it's the parents who are complaining and being whiny little brats about it.

Love that you two speak for kids all of the sudden with nothing to support this beyond a couple kids you know. 

 

[AAABatteries]

The whole "punish kids with masks" is a complete straw man.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

My 10-year-old likes wearing masks. Sometimes he puts them on as we're walking from the house to the car, when he doesn't need to until we get out of the car. 

 

[GoBirds]

Why do people keep using the word “punish” in regards to masks?  It’s not a punishment—it’s a benefit to society. I guarantee you that the kids that feel masking is a punishment feel that it is largely due to the rhetoric that the adults and parents use around them in regards to it.    If those same adults and parents tell them that masking is a means for them to be hero’s in our society getting past the pandemic—the same way that doctors, nurses and first responders are—-most kids would voluntarily wear them.   When I see people referring to kids getting punished or tortured by masking—I can’t help but think that this is nothing more than a reflection of parents/adults using their children as a way of furthering their political views. 

Wow, this spin is one of the more ridiculous things I’ve ever read. But let’s go ahead and force more things upon kids at minimal risk because…….we need to protect adults that decided not to get vaccinated? Awful. 

 

[GoBirds]

The whole "punish kids with masks" is a complete straw man.

That’s actually one of the more credible links you’ve ever posted. Congrats. 
 

 Nothing like a bunch of old dudes that can take their mask off whenever they like telling everyone their kids being forced to wear a mask all day at school enjoy it. 

 

[PinkydaPimp]

My 10-year-old likes wearing masks. Sometimes he puts them on as we're walking from the house to the car, when he doesn't need to until we get out of the car. 

My son does the same!

 

[AAABatteries]

Older Americans - "kids today are soft and don't know how easy they have it!  We are raising a bunch of wimps!"

Same Older Americans - "my kid can't wear a mask, that's torture!"

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Candy stripper?

I've seen quite a few documentaries about these young women.  True American heroes, the lot of them.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Wow, this spin is one of the more ridiculous things I’ve ever read. But let’s go ahead and force more things upon kids at minimal risk because…….we need to protect adults that decided not to get vaccinated? Awful. 

It’s not spin—it’s reality. You are telling me that it’s punishment for a kid to wear a small face covering—when these same kids actually push to wear giant costumes, with full head masks that are 10000x more uncomfortable and heavy every year and walk around for miles on end just to get some free candy?  If the parents and adults around children put a positive spin on masking—the kids would run to do it.  The bigger punishment is pushing for the lack of behaviors and actions that allow the pandemic to worsen and last longer.

 

[GoBirds]

Older Americans - "kids today are soft and don't know how easy they have it!  We are raising a bunch of wimps!"

Same Older Americans - "my kid can't wear a mask, that's torture!"

Mystery Group - “I can’t believe people aren’t getting vaccinated and killing innocent people”

Same Mystery Group - “ We must force kids not at any significant risk to wear masks to protect those who chose not to get vaccinated!”

Only in here. 

 

[Wildcat]

Mystery Group - “I can’t believe people aren’t getting vaccinated and killing innocent people”

Same Mystery Group - “ We must force kids not at any significant risk to wear masks to protect those who chose not to get vaccinated!”

Only in here. 

Your statements aren’t opposite though.  You can believe both.  Try harder.  

 

[GoBirds]

Your statements aren’t opposite though.  You can believe both.  Try harder.  

No need, the effort you all have to put into spinning this craziness is enough. Good luck. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Your statements aren’t opposite though.  You can believe both.  Try harder.  

Not only can you believe both, but as has been stated countless times by many of us.  It's to protect those who can't get vaccinated (to a degree as they will always be at risk) and hopefully to help stop variants.  If you could assure me that the variant risk was 0 and the spread was just going to impact those choosing to not get vaccinated then let's go on with life without masks and other restrictions.

Personally, I'm just hoping for more and more business, events, etc. to start requiring vaccinations - it appears to be the only way to get folks to do the right thing.  Then eventually we won't need the masks and restrictions.

 

[AAABatteries]

I mean we've already seen the Delta variant.  God knows what is next.  Granted it's my understanding that variants are typically weaker but I'm not sure anybody can say with certainty that a variant couldn't arise that the vaccine doesn't work against and we could be somewhat back to square one.  The same people who are complaining about getting the vaccine and having to wear masks and restrictions will probably be the most vocal if we end up with Covid 2.0 and have to shut things down like we did last spring. 

 

[The Z Machine]

Maybe the resistance to private companies requiring vaccinations for their employees will get some to realize that employer provided health insurance isn't a great system. 

 

[AAABatteries]

100k new cases in the US yesterday.

 

[jobarules]

My 10-year-old likes wearing masks. Sometimes he puts them on as we're walking from the house to the car, when he doesn't need to until we get out of the car. 

You think that's healthy behavior? Not judging. My son does this too btw. He wears his walking to school. I think he does it as a defense mechanism to hide from peers.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

You think that's healthy behavior? Not judging. My son does this too btw. He wears his walking to school. I think he does it as a defense mechanism to hide from peers.

He has ADHD so we have bigger fish to fry when it comes to his behaviors. I don't see this as a big deal. 

 

[AAABatteries]

One more thing about kids and masks - ideally parents would still have the choice of remote learning if they don't want their kid to have to go to school in a mask.  I think it's important for kids to be in school interacting with other kids and feel like schools just need to stay on top of outbreaks.  Require masks, require all eligible adults to be vaccinated and keep the schools open if at all possible.

 

[jobarules]

White House is pissed with media for leaking that CDC document. Media is the devil.

 

[Wildcat]

That’s actually one of the more credible links you’ve ever posted. Congrats. 
 

 Nothing like a bunch of old dudes that can take their mask off whenever they like telling everyone their kids being forced to wear a mask all day at school enjoy it. 

Have I conducted a survey on children?  No.  What i do have is the evidence with my own children(9,6) and those at their school and our church.  My kids have never complained about wearing a mask. Often I needed to tell them that they can take it off when they get home. During trips to daycare this summer, my 6 year old would put it on before we left the house because he liked to wear it. Most of the people in an uproar about kids wearing masks are coming from the adults that don’t want to wear them. 

 

[Biff84]

Question for the vaxxed folk here: How much are you changing your behaviors as a result of the past week's news, and this latest CDC report in particular? I had never really stopped indoor masking, so tightening it up a little isn't a big deal. And my wife and I already decided that we won't do indoor dining with our unvaccinated children for the foreseeable future (we may if it's just the two of us, although I think we'll default to outdoor if we can).

The big question I'm wondering about is being in crowds. I recently started a new job where a big part of it is getting out in the community to network/schmooze. There's an event next week that I'd really like to go to, but I'm having second thoughts as to whether it's worth it.

The other thing I'm concerned about is my mother-in-law, who is a senior citizen, a cancer survivor and a Covid widow. That drove so much of our behavior until she was vaccinated, but now I'm wondering if we once again need to factor her safety into our plans (we typically see her once a week).

Don't have any answers, but I'm just curious how others are processing this info.

Me: I’m going back to wearing masks at work and in public and worried about my kids going back to school without a mask mandate.

Also me: Let’s hop on a plane and go to one of the most crowded places in the world in a COVID hotspot (Disneyworld).

I’m being more cautious because of my unvaccinated girls and high risk in-laws that we are meeting up with there. Masking doesn’t bother me and if it gives a bit more protection, I’m gonna do it. I do still eat at restaurants and go to breweries but I’ll probably go back to outdoor seating. A lot of my regular places I was the one who vaccinated them, so it adds to the comfort I have.

I don’t plan on changing a lot of what I’m doing right now, but maybe change how I do it. I did cancel my plans to have a large Oktoberfest party at my house, just don’t have enough outdoor space to do it safely.

 

[ericttspikes]

100k new cases in the US yesterday.

A lot of required testing will kick in for schools and universities in a few weeks. Gotta think that number goes up to winter peak #s in this wave if not way past. Scott Gottlieb thinks there are 1 million people getting infected a day already, just not being verified. Silver lining is if hospitalizations and deaths don’t spike as big as winter. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/07/30/dr-scott-gottlieb-estimates-up-to-1-million-americans-infected-with-covid-daily-as-delta-spreads.html

 

[Biff84]

I mean we've already seen the Delta variant.  God knows what is next.  Granted it's my understanding that variants are typically weaker but I'm not sure anybody can say with certainty that a variant couldn't arise that the vaccine doesn't work against and we could be somewhat back to square one.  The same people who are complaining about getting the vaccine and having to wear masks and restrictions will probably be the most vocal if we end up with Covid 2.0 and have to shut things down like we did last spring. 

A virus is a living organism fighting to stay alive and replicate. In it’s quest find new hosts to stay alive, it will mutate to try and improve it’s chances. In a hotspot there are a ton of hosts and it learns new tricks to stay alive and spread faster.

When there are a lack of hosts, the virus will go into desperation mode and make mutations that they think will help them but often it will make the the virus weaker.

To make a football analogy - the virus is a strong running team with a weak QB. When the run game is working, they modify their play calling to exploit what’s working. When it’s not working they go to a heavy passing offense. Maybe it leads to a comeback but it’s more likely to make it worse.

Many are putting this on the unvaccinated and while they do have fault, most of the world is worse off than us and stronger variants are still likely to emerge. We need to get the world vaccinated before the virus mutates in a way that makes the vaccine ineffective. I think the development of the mRNA vaccine has greatly extended the timeframe.

 

[Biff84]

A lot of required testing will kick in for schools and universities in a few weeks. Gotta think that number goes up to winter peak #s in this wave if not way past. Scott Gottlieb thinks there are 1 million people getting infected a day already, just not being verified. Silver lining is if hospitalizations and deaths don’t spike as big as winter. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/07/30/dr-scott-gottlieb-estimates-up-to-1-million-americans-infected-with-covid-daily-as-delta-spreads.html

Considering how many of the breakthrough cases are discovered just because of aggressive testing, there has to be a ton of people infected with no clue. While the viral load appears to be the same, I have to wonder if the duration of contagiousness is much shorter in the vaccinated population.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Considering how many of the breakthrough cases are discovered just because of aggressive testing, there has to be a ton of people infected with no clue. While the viral load appears to be the same, I have to wonder if the duration of contagiousness is much shorter in the vaccinated population.

I would really like to see data on this, but I think you're probably right.  It seems like a lot of the stories I'm seeing on breakthrough infections -- not all of them obviously, but enough for it to be a theme -- involve people getting tested out of an abundance of caution or for some other non-clinical reason.  If that's really the case, then it follows that there are probably quite a few people who have been infected without symptoms, or who just wrote it off as a cold.

That's fantastic news if true, obviously.  But data > anecdotal observation.

 

[ericttspikes]

Considering how many of the breakthrough cases are discovered just because of aggressive testing, there has to be a ton of people infected with no clue. While the viral load appears to be the same, I have to wonder if the duration of contagiousness is much shorter in the vaccinated population.

One of my concerns heading into school season is that policy is still being made on "cases" and these institutions frankly have zero clue what is coming when they actually begin testing. I think we have been living a pretty "normal" life this summer compared to last year; concerts, restaurants, sporting events, etc. To this point, hospitalizations and deaths are relatively stable in most places, especially if a million people are getting infected a day right now. That is a huge positive IMO. Once these "cases" are verified, people and institutions will freak out and I fear the policy responses will be devastating for kids in schools and their families IMO.

Purdue didn't require the vaccine and will instead supposedly test unvaxxed kids only. The rub is, because everyone thought this year will be normal, the class is so huge and there isn't any extra housing for isolation or quarantine. It's going to be a huge cluster$%^#. What if they start testing vaxxed kids too now that the CDC is floating out vaccinated spread? If their policy remains based on cases, I see no way the school can operate based on measuring "cases", regardless if kids are clinically sick or not (symptomatic). Tough choices ahead.  

Honestly, mandating the vaccine on campuses would've been the easiest solution. Protect everyone the best we can at this moment in time with the vaccines, wear masks if you want, but most people, infected or not, would be ok health wise, especially in that age group. But ya know, politics. 

 

[Biff84]

I would really like to see data on this, but I think you're probably right.  It seems like a lot of the stories I'm seeing on breakthrough infections -- not all of them obviously, but enough for it to be a theme -- involve people getting tested out of an abundance of caution or for some other non-clinical reason.  If that's really the case, then it follows that there are probably quite a few people who have been infected without symptoms, or who just wrote it off as a cold.

That's fantastic news if true, obviously.  But data > anecdotal observation.

My daughters both had cold symptoms after our vacation to the Midwest in June. If they had COVID and that’s all they got and now have antibodies, I’d be thrilled.

 

[Desert_Power]

A virus is a living organism fighting to stay alive and replicate. In it’s quest find new hosts to stay alive, it will mutate to try and improve it’s chances. In a hotspot there are a ton of hosts and it learns new tricks to stay alive and spread faster.

When there are a lack of hosts, the virus will go into desperation mode and make mutations that they think will help them but often it will make the the virus weaker.

To make a football analogy - the virus is a strong running team with a weak QB. When the run game is working, they modify their play calling to exploit what’s working. When it’s not working they go to a heavy passing offense. Maybe it leads to a comeback but it’s more likely to make it worse.

Many are putting this on the unvaccinated and while they do have fault, most of the world is worse off than us and stronger variants are still likely to emerge. We need to get the world vaccinated before the virus mutates in a way that makes the vaccine ineffective. I think the development of the mRNA vaccine has greatly extended the timeframe.

Great analogy, but now I will associate Covid with the Titans/Ryan Tannehill

 

[Doug B]

Aren't the Pfizer and Moderna Phase III trial participants still being tracked? Supposed to be tracked for two years IIRC. Would love to see some info on whether they've recorded a rise in breakthrough cases ~6 months or more after vaccinations. If so, they could do a more detailed test to break out Delta vs. others.

Would think all other vaccine manufacturers could do similar -- had thought two years of tracking Phase III participants was pretty standard.

 

[jobarules]

Have I conducted a survey on children?  No.  What i do have is the evidence with my own children(9,6) and those at their school and our church.  My kids have never complained about wearing a mask. Often I needed to tell them that they can take it off when they get home. During trips to daycare this summer, my 6 year old would put it on before we left the house because he liked to wear it. Most of the people in an uproar about kids wearing masks are coming from the adults that don’t want to wear them. 

Liking to wear a mask is not normal behavior

 

[Doug B]

Liking to wear a mask is not normal behavior

It's neutral, and kids can rightfully approach it in a variety of adaptive ways. Kids get used to things. Always have throughout human history.

 

[GoBirds]

Liking to wear a mask is not normal behavior

Exactly, and anecdotal stories of kids liking masks from a message board where the demographic is majority old/white/extremely liberal doesn’t hold much water. Sorry. 

 

[Doug B]

While the viral load appears to be the same, I have to wonder if the duration of contagiousness is much shorter in the vaccinated population.

This is a great point. It would be valuable to have data specifically addressing this. Estimates of virion counts in the nasopharynx are helpful, but only a part of the puzzle.

 

[Doug B]

Exactly, and anecdotal stories of kids liking masks from a message board where the demographic is majority old/white/extremely liberal doesn’t hold much water. Sorry. 

It's all anecdotes when it comes to attitudes about masking, isn't it?

 

[GoBirds]

It's all anecdotes when it comes to attitudes about masking, isn't it?

It’s the nicest word that can be used for the “kids like masks!” talking point some are trying for. 

 

[belljr]

I was/am very serious about masks indoor gathering going out etc.  Stayed home a lot 

I'm over it. I'm not masking unless asked to and my kid won't in the fall.  Im not going to be omg I have to wear a mask but I'm not doing it voluntarily anymore

 

[Doug B]

It’s the nicest word that can be used for the “kids like masks!” talking point some are trying for. 

No one in this thread has expressed it as an absolute. "Kids like masks!" is an absolute.

Some kids are gung ho about them. Some kids are simply fine with it. Some kids will just deal and not dwell on it. Some kids are "meh" about it. Some kids would prefer not to, but will go along to get along. Some kids will "forget" a lot, but toe the line if watched and prompted. Some kids will be rulebreakers and sometimes convince peers to do the same. Some kids will openly resist when they see an opportunity. Some kids might resort to violence.

There's a full spectrum of attitudes and reactions, no one of which should have an determinative impact on the decision of a school to have students and faculty wear masks while on campus.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Several more breakthroughs among friends/family here now. 

 

[Doug B]

Several more breakthroughs among friends/family here now. 

How's their symptoms, LJ? Any info on how long since vaccinations it's been for them? Any seeming correlation between age and breakthrough status?

 

[nysfl2]

Does anyone know if there has been a study released around how severe the cases have been for vaccinated immunocompromised people who get COVID? My wife is immunocompromised, and is very concerned that she's going to have to return to total hermit life if the delta variant essentially means that anyone could infect her, vaccinated or not.

 

[AAABatteries]

I was/am very serious about masks indoor gathering going out etc.  Stayed home a lot 

I'm over it. I'm not masking unless asked to and my kid won't in the fall.  Im not going to be omg I have to wear a mask but I'm not doing it voluntarily anymore

I agree with this and pretty much the same way - I will wear one without complaining if required and I'm in favor of them being required currently at large gatherings and schools due to our numbers.  I would have been fine not requiring them if the numbers weren't high and it wasn't being recommended.  I don't go out much at all with WFH and keep my distance.  My kids are vaccinated and will wear one if required but I won't make them wear one if not - unless they choose to for themselves.  If they started back with quarantines I may consider making them wear one just so they don't miss 10 days or school or sports.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

How's their symptoms, LJ? Any info on how long since vaccinations it's been for them? Any seeming correlation between age and breakthrough status?

Only aware of symptoms of the one guy. Mild flu like symptoms. Arizona. Vaccination in April. 41 years old. 
 

The other is a family. Two in their 70s (in from florida). Two in 40s. Not confirmed if the 10ish aged kids are positive too.  I only know because a friend of mine went to dinner with them all on Thursday and was told today that the “entire family” tested positive. 

 

[skol asylum]

Liking to wear a mask is not normal behavior

Who made you the arbiter of "normal"?

 

[jobarules]

Who made you the arbiter of "normal"?

@Keerock

 

[Terminalxylem]

Does the Ivermectin need it's own thread or is there one already started? Does anyone know much about it other than whatever internet negativity or positivity is behind it? Joe Rogan had a Podcast that featured a couple doctors that seemed like they were credible but that's an entertainment show not science. 

Unclear if ivermectin helps or not, as studies are small, poorly designed and have mixed results. The concentrations required for benefit in vitro are also way higher than typically achieved in humans. 

NIH says not enough data

It’s a cheap and fairly low toxicity drug, but there are shortages in some places too. People are taking veterinary formulations, which aren’t scrutinized as closely for purity/safety as human drugs.

ATM, it’s the new hydroxychloroquine.

 

[Capella]

Mystery Group - “I can’t believe people aren’t getting vaccinated and killing innocent people”

Same Mystery Group - “ We must force kids not at any significant risk to wear masks to protect those who chose not to get vaccinated!”

Only in here. 

this is definitely not making whatever point that you think it is. 

 

[Wildcat]

Liking to wear a mask is not normal behavior

His masks are cool as have fun characters and things on them. He also likes to be prepared for school and daycare - dressed, backpack, mask on. My 6 year old has more common sense than most adults.  Judging what kids like is not normal behavior. I would say that every child on this earth exhibits some form of what someone else would consider not normal behavior.

 

[Biff84]

A little perspective just now. Just had a guy the same age as me come in to get his daughter vaccinated. He tells me that he just recovered from COVID and kicked his ### for two weeks. His wife is currently hospitalized and his younger brother (early 30s) is currently on a ventilator. And with all that going on, his first thought is getting his daughter protected and asking when he could get vaccinated.

 

[Sand]

A little perspective just now. Just had a guy the same age as me come in to get his daughter vaccinated. He tells me that he just recovered from COVID and kicked his ### for two weeks. His wife is currently hospitalized and his younger brother (early 30s) is currently on a ventilator. And with all that going on, his first thought is getting his daughter protected and asking when he could get vaccinated.

As noted earlier in this thread I have been assessing data on the risks in young people before getting my kid the shot.  The chances of a vaccine reaction are very rare, as is the possibility for a healthy 16 year old to get sick.

With Delta out and about he got his first shot today.  Still not sure I made the right decision as it's really, really close.