*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (11 Viewers)

[Leeroy Jenkins]

My county is doubling every 6 days down from every 2-3 days. Hopefully this flattens soon ....

 

[General Malaise]

I understand all of that and am compassionate of their situation. The “hoard” shaming is what I have a problem with. Don’t pretend you’re Gov Cuomo with word tracks. 

Couldn't you have told the gal that you were unaware of the limit, you'd be happy to comply, but that there is no reason at all to speak to another person like that?

 

[Doug B]

I've still been reading that deliveries don't need to be wiped down - this is a source of frustration to me, it genuinely feels that no one really knows what the real guidance should be.

I think down the road, when this pandemic is in the rearview mirror a good ways ... it'll come out that wiping down groceries and wiping down mail or packages, that none of that wiping down was necessary.

My wife, from reading Facebook and the like, thinks "groceries" in general spread coronavirus. For instance, she insists that I wipe down cans and packages that we've had in the house since, say, last summer. It's just that "groceries spread coronavirus!!!" is etched into her brain.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

My wife, from reading Facebook and the like, thinks "groceries" in general spread coronavirus. For instance, she insists that I wipe down cans and packages that we've had in the house since, say, last summer. It's just that "groceries spread coronavirus!!!" is etched into her brain.

 

 

[gianmarco]

@Terminalxylem

Came across this and it's an interesting/plausible theory.  Thought you might be interested in reading through it.

 

[rustycolts]

I am wondering if the buff I wear when I go fishing would work as a mask? I use it a lot to cover mouth when it's cold and were hauling butt in the boat.

 

[RnR]

My wife, from reading Facebook and the like, thinks "groceries" in general spread coronavirus. For instance, she insists that I wipe down cans and packages that we've had in the house since, say, last summer. It's just that "groceries spread coronavirus!!!" is etched into her brain.

Add Facebook to the right-leaning newsources we must independently verify! 

ETA: bless you for putting up with this

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

@Terminalxylem

Came across this and it's an interesting/plausible theory.  Thought you might be interested in reading through it.

Dammit.  He beat me to it.

 

[hagmania]

I am wondering if the buff I wear when I go fishing would work as a mask? I use it a lot to cover mouth when it's cold and were hauling butt in the boat.

Anything that covers will be better than nothing. Speaking of buffs, I'm going to be super trendy in my Survivor: Thailand, Pearl Islands and All-Star buffs.

 

[dawgtrails]

Add Facebook to the right-leaning newsources we must independently verify! 

ETA: bless you for putting up with this

you just called someone out for politics and not 5 posts later you feel the need for this?

 

[nirad3]

What kind did you get?

My mom's friend made some fabric ones and also had some "hospital-grade" ones as well.  Not sure what kinds, actually... but better than nothing.  I will definitely wear one when shopping.  Might have to wear at my office, too.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

So all of the walmarts in our area now have a wait for curbside pickup of at least 7 days.  Great.

 

[FBG26]

Not sure if already posted, but France shows 2116 new cases and 1355 new deaths today.  Sadly, the US will probably have nearly that many deaths today and seems likely to surpass that on a daily basis as early as tomorrow. :(  

 

[SFBayDuck]

@Terminalxylem

Came across this and it's an interesting/plausible theory.  Thought you might be interested in reading through it.

So no to Advil, yes to baby aspirin?  

(I have no idea what most of that stuff in there means.)

 

[Doug B]

My wife, from reading Facebook and the like, thinks "groceries" in general spread coronavirus. For instance, she insists that I wipe down cans and packages that we've had in the house since, say, last summer. It's just that "groceries spread coronavirus!!!" is etched into her brain.

 

You laugh, but I see a lot of that kind of "sound bite" thinking. Probably 1/2 of what we "know" about coronavirus right now will either turn out later to be flat-out wrong or incomplete.

On the point of groceries specifically: if something was never recognized to be a vector for the common cold, or for influenza, or for other viral illnesses ... I have to have serious doubts that it would be a vector for COVID. That's one way I kind of am in the "just like flu" camp -- I'm not convinced that coronavirus can exploit modes of transmission that other viruses never (really) have.

I mean ... yeah, if someone sneezes right on my can of tuna, and I go handling that can right away ... that's potential fomite transmission. But that's essentially a contrived situation. It seems like, rather, in the general run of life ... statistically, very few contagious people (with any illness) have recently handled food on the grocery shelves, or have recently handled your mail, or whatever. Sure, there's a non-zero chance -- but not something on which we bothered spending mental energy the recent past.

I think a lot of the "Lasts for nine days on surfaces! And a cool 17 days on a cruise ship!" is going to go away, too. Things just aren't the same in a lab as they are in real life (and on the cruise ship they found viral remnants, not actual viruses). Reminds me somewhat of the 1970s Canadian tests that "proved" saccharine caused cancer and that the sweetener shouldn't be used in toothpaste. To get rats to develop tumors from saccharine (or so they thought) ... they fed rats the equivalent amount of saccharine to an average-sized human man eating the saccharine out of 606 tubes of toothpaste (further reading). Um, no person has ever consumed that much toothpaste at one sitting.

 

[RnR]

you just called someone out for politics and not 5 posts later you feel the need for this?

A- it's a continuation from discussion on a comment Doug made earlier today about right-leaning news sources not being credible.

B- I've spent an incredible amount of time nerding out in the baseball forum with Doug for like 15 years. I think he knows I'm giving him a hard time in a non-combative way.

C- Just so we're clear, this is not just "politics" ... Pretty sure it's not excellent, either. People have been banned for far less.

No, it's because he dares to contradict the Messiah of the right wing death cult.

ETA: I know.  No politics.  Don't care.  It's good or evil in this battle.  Hiding your head in the sand is the same as taking a stand for evil.

 

[gianmarco]

So no to Advil, yes to baby aspirin?  

(I have no idea what most of that stuff in there means.)

Possibly, but it's a bit more complicated than that. Not something I would just start based on that writing.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

I sort of get the run on TP. What's the deal with the paper towels though? Every one of us has old shirts and #### that easily become rags. In fact, we should all do that anyway and reduce if not eliminate our paper towel usage

Just a guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few bathrooms around America with a roll of paper towel resting on the top of the toilet tank now that the TP holder is empty.

 

[Doug B]

Add Facebook to the right-leaning newsources we must independently verify! 

ETA: bless you for putting up with this

you just called someone out for politics and not 5 posts later you feel the need for this?

Looked bad superficially, maybe ... but it's kind of an inside joke based on a prior conversation. No harm.

 

[RnR]

Sounds like we're getting close to the mask thing being a reality: https://apnews.com/a7857eb0250093ab796daf6122c71047

 

[STBootleg]

Anything that covers will be better than nothing. Speaking of buffs, I'm going to be super trendy in my Survivor: Thailand, Pearl Islands and All-Star buffs.

Rawrrr

*My daughter's Comic-con mask

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Most often seen on Asian social media are questions why Europeans and Americans do not wear masks.  I suspect, like social distancing, face masks may be more difficult to enforce in western countries.  There is still the stigma of wearing one in public.

Yep no doubt. Hopefully that stigma is gone and gone for good soon. A national mandate to wear them if out in public would go a long way.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Sounds like we're getting close to the mask thing being a reality: https://apnews.com/a7857eb0250093ab796daf6122c71047

Baby step #4. (Useless - Could Do More Harm Than Good - Might Help - Good Idea to Wear One)

Please just make them a requirement already.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/navy-expected-relieve-captain-who-raised-alarm-about-covid-19-n1175351?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma

Navy expected to relieve captain who raised alarm about COVID-19 outbreak on aircraft carrier

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Not sure if already posted, but France shows 2116 new cases and 1355 new deaths today.  Sadly, the US will probably have nearly that many deaths today and seems likely to surpass that on a daily basis as early as tomorrow. :(  

Thanks for posting this. Whenever there is an outlier like this, it is worth digging into the numbers a bit more deeply, in this case clicking on the "source" information provided. France aggregated all of the deaths from nursing homes and added 884 deaths to their total count today.

France's number of new cases is down substantially to 2,116 and the non-nursing home deaths were 471, also down from the last 2 days. So the nursing home data is horrible of course, but should be taken into account in the overall picture.

 

[RnR]

So all of the walmarts in our area now have a wait for curbside pickup of at least 7 days.  Great.

Have you tried a service like Instacart? You're basically paying someone to go into the store, shop for you, and drop it off on your front porch when done.

 

[lod001]

With all the varying reports of it killing those with underlying conditions, then some healthy people dying. I was wondering if there were varying strains already. Then this, which I guess could make more sense. The importance of viral dose is being overlooked in discussions of the coronavirus. As with any other poison, viruses are usually more dangerous in larger amounts. Small initial exposures tend to lead to mild or asymptomatic infections, while larger doses can be lethal. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-exposures-might-most-dangerous-184640808.html

 

[beer 30]

I think down the road, when this pandemic is in the rearview mirror a good ways ... it'll come out that wiping down groceries and wiping down mail or packages, that none of that wiping down was necessary.

My wife, from reading Facebook and the like, thinks "groceries" in general spread coronavirus. For instance, she insists that I wipe down cans and packages that we've had in the house since, say, last summer. It's just that "groceries spread coronavirus!!!" is etched into her brain.

I don't know, just spitballing here...but maybe, you know..show her some of your posts in this thread? 

Seems like a weird dichotomy at the Doug B house 

So all of the walmarts in our area now have a wait for curbside pickup of at least 7 days.  Great.

Ours is 2 days but there is never an open slot. Wife & D1 tried to put together pickup orders for Sams and Target this afternoon. Entered all the info and when they went to check out, said store wouldn't be able to process order, try again tomorrow.

So they went to the stores instead  Everything they wanted was there, not sure why the pick up thing wouldn't work.

 

[ChiefD]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/navy-expected-relieve-captain-who-raised-alarm-about-covid-19-n1175351?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma

Navy expected to relieve captain who raised alarm about COVID-19 outbreak on aircraft carrier

Did he go public with this demand? I have no idea - first time I've heard this story.

I'm no Navy guy, but if he didn't follow protocol I would guess this is standard procedure.

 

[eoMMan]

I've still been reading that deliveries don't need to be wiped down - this is a source of frustration to me, it genuinely feels that no one really knows what the real guidance should be.

I think it just comes down to your own risk tolerance. Personally,  if I get covid19  from picking up a few grocery items that I didn't wipe down with Clorox wipes, so be it. That's the way it goes.

 

[beer 30]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/navy-expected-relieve-captain-who-raised-alarm-about-covid-19-n1175351?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma

Navy expected to relieve captain who raised alarm about COVID-19 outbreak on aircraft carrier

I saw this earlier today. Why? Haven't read anything on it, figured it would get covered in here at some point. Sounds like the ship was rife with the 'rona.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Anything that covers will be better than nothing. Speaking of buffs, I'm going to be super trendy in my Survivor: Thailand, Pearl Islands and All-Star buffs.

Off to Winn-Dixie.

 

[Doug B]

With all the varying reports of it killing those with underlying conditions, then some healthy people dying. I was wondering if there were varying strains already. Then this, which I guess could make more sense. The importance of viral dose is being overlooked in discussions of the coronavirus. As with any other poison, viruses are usually more dangerous in larger amounts. Small initial exposures tend to lead to mild or asymptomatic infections, while larger doses can be lethal. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-exposures-might-most-dangerous-184640808.html

This has always been true ... but I think generally overlooked. Viral load is what accounts for all those "mysterious" cases of "young, healthy" doctors and nurses getting sick and even dying from COVID.

I think "sound bite" folks think "One virus up your nose ... and it's straight to the ventilator!" Not so, and so far as I know ... a few stray viruses pretty much won't sicken anyone short of a person suffering severe immunodeficiency -- and I mean more than just "over 60 + high blood pressure".

 

[moleculo]

Not sure if already posted, but France shows 2116 new cases and 1355 new deaths today.  Sadly, the US will probably have nearly that many deaths today and seems likely to surpass that on a daily basis as early as tomorrow. :(  

wow...more than double where they were yesterday.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

With all the varying reports of it killing those with underlying conditions, then some healthy people dying. I was wondering if there were varying strains already. Then this, which I guess could make more sense. The importance of viral dose is being overlooked in discussions of the coronavirus. As with any other poison, viruses are usually more dangerous in larger amounts. Small initial exposures tend to lead to mild or asymptomatic infections, while larger doses can be lethal. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-exposures-might-most-dangerous-184640808.html

This has always been true ... but I think generally overlooked. Viral load is what accounts for all those "mysterious" cases of "young, healthy" doctors and nurses getting sick and even dying from COVID.

I think "sound bite" folks think "One virus up your nose ... and it's straight to the ventilator!" Not so, and so far as I know ... a few stray viruses pretty much won't sicken anyone short of a person suffering severe immunodeficiency -- and I mean more than just "over 60 + high blood pressure".

That's interesting. It would have been nice if the article had any data or sources, but suppose that common sense would dictate that more exposure = worse.

 

[shader]

Pretty interesting executive order just signed in TN for two weeks.

I thought it was interesting that data began showing that traffic was slowly starting to rise again. Imo it’s a smart move to do this to reinforce that now is the absolute worst time to relax the social distancing.

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/gov-lee-to-say-order-requiring-tennesseans-to-stay-home

 

[shader]

wow...more than double where they were yesterday.

So interesting news about France.  They’ve only been counting hospital deaths in their death tally.  Today was the first day they’ve decided to add nursing home deaths and it is a cumulative number (meaning all the nursing home deaths that have happened so far are all being reported today).

 

[AAABatteries]

I think down the road, when this pandemic is in the rearview mirror a good ways ... it'll come out that wiping down groceries and wiping down mail or packages, that none of that wiping down was necessary.

My wife, from reading Facebook and the like, thinks "groceries" in general spread coronavirus. For instance, she insists that I wipe down cans and packages that we've had in the house since, say, last summer. It's just that "groceries spread coronavirus!!!" is etched into her brain.

My wife is the opposite - we are following all rules and have basically been in isolation for 2.5 weeks but she's having #### delivered multiple times a day (we just moved in to a new house) and she's bringing it in with no concerns on packaging on anything.

 

[jamny]

With all the varying reports of it killing those with underlying conditions, then some healthy people dying. I was wondering if there were varying strains already. Then this, which I guess could make more sense. The importance of viral dose is being overlooked in discussions of the coronavirus. As with any other poison, viruses are usually more dangerous in larger amounts. Small initial exposures tend to lead to mild or asymptomatic infections, while larger doses can be lethal. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-exposures-might-most-dangerous-184640808.html

Thanks. I was wondering if this was possible.

 

[shader]

The 2k cases France is reporting for the day seems really low and would represent a huge reduction in cases, which is a good thing. 

 

[Apple Jack]

Pretty interesting executive order just signed in TN for two weeks.

I thought it was interesting that data began showing that traffic was slowly starting to rise again. Imo it’s a smart move to do this to reinforce that now is the absolute worst time to relax the social distancing.

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/gov-lee-to-say-order-requiring-tennesseans-to-stay-home

I just took a bike ride around the lake where I'm hunkered down and couldn't believe how much construction was still going on on houses and work trucks out driving around. We have a stay at home order, but I guess construction is considered essential. Good for those guys.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Have you tried a service like Instacart? You're basically paying someone to go into the store, shop for you, and drop it off on your front porch when done.

Just tried the publix one.  Very restricted options - like cant even get chicken breasts.  Seems to be just deli items, bakery and some other stuff. Could be operator error

 

[BobbyLayne]

To date 21,000 out of state medical volunteers have come to New York. Amazing!

 

[krista4]

The cruise ship that left Buenos Aires on March 7 and since March 14 has been looking for a place to go just docked in Fort Lauderdale, along with the healthy helper ship that they sent to bring supplies/medical personnel and to offload "healthy" passengers.

13 passengers and one crew member are being taken to the hospital immediately, two of whom have been on shipboard ventilators.  Those with symptoms but not needing hospitalization are being left onboard until they recover.  The asymptomatic passengers who aren't FL residents are being taken by bus directly to charter flights to various locations in the US and internationally.

Glad to see these people finally being able to leave the ship and take the next step to get home.  Kudos to Broward County, FL.  

 

[Doug B]

That's interesting. It would have been nice if the article had any data or sources ...

It's a digital reprint of a NYT op-ed piece, so it's not really going to point back to any sources. Still, it's pretty easy to find lots of information about viral load and its effects on infection/symptom severity for viruses in general.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Sounds like fun.  Unfortunately everywhere I'm looking at going is closed to camping.  I've seen that fishing is allowed but no mention of hunting.  

The place I'm thinking, like a lot of trails in Hawaii, wasn't ever officially open. It's just a trail up a ridge behind a subdivision near my house, with a secluded pine grove serving as a camping spot. Technically it is state land, but like the ocean, access isn't fully restricted.

Speaking of which, surfing is allowed, but congregating is discouraged and public beaches are closed. 

 

[JaxBill]

From a financial applications standpoint, I wonder how low ATM traffic has been the last two weeks and how much of an increase paypal/venmo has seen as people move even further away from handing somebody else cash.

eta Anecdotal evidence- I'm fairly old school and i try to carry 40 to 100 or so in cash with me just in case. Last weekend a buddy of mine picked up some quality craft beer for me. We both felt more comfortable using venmo.

 

[nirad3]

My wife is the opposite - we are following all rules and have basically been in isolation for 2.5 weeks but she's having #### delivered multiple times a day (we just moved in to a new house) and she's bringing it in with no concerns on packaging on anything.

Yeah my wife keeps sending me articles on how to keep sanitized when you go out shopping and wants me to shower every time I get back from the store, and yet we have at least a couple packages from Wal-Mart or Amazon on our doorstep every day that she picks up and opens without question.  

 

[Terminalxylem]

I have seen that video and he says we should save n95 masks for medical workers.  I have also spoken to my good friend who is an infectious disease doctor in northern NJ and she said that all HCW  need to be wearing n95 masks but they don't have enough so they are reusing them or going to back up options.  She doesn't believe surgical masks are enough on their own in a health care setting.  

This topic is controversial. IMO In an ideal world, all HCW with direct patient contact would be wearing N95s, until we fully elaborate the degree to which aerosol transmission occurs. There are studies linked in this thread which prove the virus can remain aerosolized under experimental conditions, and environmental surveys which suggest the same. But we're not sure if the amount that is aerosolized represents an adequate inoculum to cause infection under normal circumstances, in a normal host.

On the other hand, epidemiologic studies suggest the lion's share is spread through droplets and fomites (like other coronaviruses), and properly worn surgical masks + good hand hygiene should mitigate most risk if directly exposed. The idea that it is spread through breathing and talking needs further study, but probably isn't a common mode of transmission. I agree with gianmarco that there would probably be a lot more people infected if this were the case, but maybe we'll find out the bulk of asymptomatic/mildly symptomatic people acquired it this way.

WHO and CDC recs are partially based on science, partially on resource availability. But nobody is truly an expert on this disease/virus, as the science is rapidly evolving. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

@Terminalxylem

Came across this and it's an interesting/plausible theory.  Thought you might be interested in reading through it.

Going out hiking, but will read it later. I already mentioned some parallels to dengue, so definitely looks interesting.