*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (11 Viewers)

[msommer]

I mean, on one level or another it's going to happen.

Either you use technology to make it efficient and painless, if done in a privacy-preserving way, or you have to hire a ton of folks to talk to newly infected people, retrace their steps, reach out manually to those they were in contact with, and tell them they need to self-isolate.

One way or another, this tracing/tracking will have to happen in order to prevent more widespread infections.

People can't continue to pretend that society hasn't fundamentally changed due to this virus.  Those who do will be promoting the deaths of hundreds of thousands of folks, because that or more is the result of continuing business as normal.  If we accept that the situation has changed, that new requirements are needed in society to handle this, we can get through it.

We're a society with a "war time president" with a population that doesn't think they're at war too.

Things are different.  In war, citizens are asked to do things they normally wouldn't be asked to do. Ration, work in factories, not but certain products, give government certain supplies for production...in this case, we just need to be able to mitigate new infections.  We don't care who you're with or what you're doing or where you're doing it.  It's war...war against the virus, and in such a situation you have to accept some compromises.  This is minor in an effort to prevent the deaths of huge numbers of your fellow americans.

I've been thinking about contact tracing, not sure how it's actually done.

Let's say you go to the supermarket. Maybe there is a line outside. Maybe it's a Walmart in another town. You see no one you know. Then you go to the liquor store because Walmart didn't have your favorite booze. Maybe there's ten people inside. You don't know them. You hear no coughing. At some point in the next two weeks you start to feel bad (having done other things as well), get tested and after a week you are positive. Let's say you think you were at the liquor store at 11, but really you were there at 12 because waiting at Walmart took longer than you thought. And you paid cash, tossed the receipts. Let's say you were not carded because you have grey in your beard.  Is that good enough? How will the contact tracers know who you were at Walmart and the liquor store with? Can the contact tracers access walmart/liquor stores cctv without warrants? On what basis would they get one? What about payment records, CC details. Private? Warrant?

 

[Statorama]

I appreciate you're stance and don't disagree that to get ahead of this, we need tracing whether cooperatively (apps) or otherwise (hire an army). I won't go further commenting on the bolded because there is another forum for it but we all know that won't be the case and that will be why there will be push back on it.

That said, apps like Strava & Pokemon Go already accomplish everything you mention above and there wasn't any issues with that. Guess it's just how you package it. If tell people they need to download the "OFFICIAL US GOVERNMENT TRACKING APP" you probably won't have much buy in. If you make so you get gems and stickers every time you hit a goal, probably have hundreds of thousands sign up.

Good points.  It's all about how this would be marketed.

"Want to see if you've been in a high-contact area?  There's an app for that!"

 

[adonis]

I mean, on one level or another it's going to happen.

Either you use technology to make it efficient and painless, if done in a privacy-preserving way, or you have to hire a ton of folks to talk to newly infected people, retrace their steps, reach out manually to those they were in contact with, and tell them they need to self-isolate.

One way or another, this tracing/tracking will have to happen in order to prevent more widespread infections.

People can't continue to pretend that society hasn't fundamentally changed due to this virus.  Those who do will be promoting the deaths of hundreds of thousands of folks, because that or more is the result of continuing business as normal.  If we accept that the situation has changed, that new requirements are needed in society to handle this, we can get through it.

We're a society with a "war time president" with a population that doesn't think they're at war too.

Things are different.  In war, citizens are asked to do things they normally wouldn't be asked to do. Ration, work in factories, not but certain products, give government certain supplies for production...in this case, we just need to be able to mitigate new infections.  We don't care who you're with or what you're doing or where you're doing it.  It's war...war against the virus, and in such a situation you have to accept some compromises.  This is minor in an effort to prevent the deaths of huge numbers of your fellow americans.

I appreciate you're stance and don't disagree that to get ahead of this, we need tracing whether cooperatively (apps) or otherwise (hire an army). I won't go further commenting on the bolded because there is another forum for it but we all know that won't be the case and that will be why there will be push back on it.

That said, apps like Strava & Pokemon Go already accomplish everything you mention above and there wasn't any issues with that. Guess it's just how you package it. If tell people they need to download the "OFFICIAL US GOVERNMENT TRACKING APP" you probably won't have much buy in. If you make so you get gems and stickers every time you hit a goal, probably have hundreds of thousands sign up.

I agree with this.  I dont believe we need a govt sponsored app.  Crowd sourcing, which is an opt-in construct, is plenty.  Look at the smart thermometer data.  Super smart idea and some people use it as they believe in the concept.  I think we need more "opt-in" options out there and some people will want to be helpful and some can choose not to be part of it.

Yeah, doesn't have to be a government app per se, but one that collects data and keeps it on your local device until needed.  Then you can determine what to do with it.

Ideally, you walk around doing your normal life stuff with the contact tracing thing on.  It collects data only on who you've come into contact with in an anonymized, de-identified way.  You keep the block-chain or otherwise encrypted identifier the other folks share with you, and at some point if you become infected, there's an avenue to report your infection and communicate with those folks you were in contact with.  

Ideally, this would be done through a centralized server that doesn't know any identity information, but just alerts random ID's when triggered.  The authorities who have the ability to confirm a "positive" case would be a hospital or clinic, so some authorization method for them to take your ID, tag it as "COVID positive" and then trigger alerts to be sent out to folks you were in contact with within a certain amount of time.  Those other folks devices would be checking in with a central server and if your anonymous ID happens to match, you get a notification that it's time to self-isolate.

Perhaps the servers could provide some anonymized data to public health officials, say if you opt-in for that kind of reporting (which is done in every state for all medical visits dealing with infectious diseases already, regardless of whether you like it or not).

The potential for an elegant, anonymous, but helpful solution could be really good.

But also, to note on the "opt-in" feature...in times of war, citizens aren't given the option to opt-in to a draft.  To opt-in to other societal galvanizing forces that support the war effort.  That's basically where we are, but people aren't mentally in line with that yet, despite tens of thousands of deaths so far.

Look what a far fewer number of deaths on 9-11 caused us to change our behavior in airports, for better or worse, and how folks endure that.  We will have to change our way of life to some degree...what's the best option that produces the best outcomes at the lowest risk the most easily?

 

[adonis]

I've been thinking about contact tracing, not sure how it's actually done.

Let's say you go to the supermarket. Maybe there is a line outside. Maybe it's a Walmart in another town. You see no one you know. Then you go to the liquor store because Walmart didn't have your favorite booze. Maybe there's ten people inside. You don't know them. You hear no coughing. At some point in the next two weeks you start to feel bad (having done other things as well), get tested and after a week you are positive. Let's say you think you were at the liquor store at 11, but really you were there at 12 because waiting at Walmart took longer than you thought. And you paid cash, tossed the receipts. Let's say you were not carded because you have grey in your beard.  Is that good enough? How will the contact tracers know who you were at Walmart and the liquor store with? Can the contact tracers access walmart/liquor stores cctv without warrants? On what basis would they get one? What about payment records, CC details. Private? Warrant?

I'm not sure the goal is to be 100% accurate in all ways of all contacts you had ranked by order of meaningful contact to not.

Rather, it's a good way that's easy to take a pretty good pass at this.  Not perfect, will be technical glitches.  Not everyone will participate.  But in terms of an automated solution, it can be pretty helpful, especially when paired with more manual contact tracing, which will almost certainly have to be in place as part of a result of positive test result for Covid in the future, until the vaccine is ready.

 

[adonis]

Good points.  It's all about how this would be marketed.

"Want to see if you've been in a high-contact area?  There's an app for that!"

Could also be incentivized by governments, employers, healthcare providers, where certain benefits come with participation in the app, and you miss out on them if you refrain.

I think that'd be incredibly motivating, to be tied to government benefits for quarantining if you opt-in, or to get a discount or qualify for certain healthcare options if you opt-in for your insurance company, or your employer could require it to ensure the safety of the workforce and not increase their legal liability if you get sick on the job from a coworker.

 

[beer 30]

Could also be incentivized by governments, employers, healthcare providers, where certain benefits come with participation in the app, and you miss out on them if you refrain.

I think that'd be incredibly motivating, to be tied to government benefits for quarantining if you opt-in, or to get a discount or qualify for certain healthcare options if you opt-in for your insurance company, or your employer could require it to ensure the safety of the workforce and not increase their legal liability if you get sick on the job from a coworker.

As an example:

Sign up for the DriveEasy discount and invite everyone on your policy to join in on the fun! Once you download and install the DriveEasy app, your driving is detected automatically. There's no need to open or close the app on your trips!

 

[Morton Muffley]

It's time to start letting people who are willing to go back to work.

Umm, sure.  Then it's also time to:

• let drunk people drive
  
• let people who are high operate heavy machinery
  
• let people raise pigs in their suburban yards
  
• let companies pollute the streams on their property
  

I can go on, but am gonna stop I assume you can spot the flaw in your argument by now.

 

[adonis]

Umm, sure.  Then it's also time to:

• let drunk people drive
  
• let people who are high operate heavy machinery
  
• let people raise pigs in their suburban yards
  
• let companies pollute the streams on their property
  

I can go on, but am gonna stop I assume you can spot the flaw in your argument by now.

One flaw in the analogy is that preventing people from going back to work effectively shuts down the economy and has a ton of adverse effects across the entire country.

None of the examples you mentioned are similar in that respect.

 

[Whyatt]

A small clinical trial (n=61) from compassionate use of Gilead’s Remdesivir for Covid-19 has been published. 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2007016?

As expected, not a magic bullet, but somewhat promising results. This was not a blinded study.

Phase 3 trials are ongoing.

 

[Tolstoy]

Ecuador went from 515 new cases yesterday to 2100+ today

 

[parasaurolophus]

Can you please tell me what that has to do with what I posted?

Its a cumulative assumption. 

 

[FBG26]

I've been thinking about contact tracing, not sure how it's actually done.

Let's say you go to the supermarket. Maybe there is a line outside. Maybe it's a Walmart in another town. You see no one you know. Then you go to the liquor store because Walmart didn't have your favorite booze. Maybe there's ten people inside. You don't know them. You hear no coughing. At some point in the next two weeks you start to feel bad (having done other things as well), get tested and after a week you are positive. Let's say you think you were at the liquor store at 11, but really you were there at 12 because waiting at Walmart took longer than you thought. And you paid cash, tossed the receipts. Let's say you were not carded because you have grey in your beard.  Is that good enough? How will the contact tracers know who you were at Walmart and the liquor store with? Can the contact tracers access walmart/liquor stores cctv without warrants? On what basis would they get one? What about payment records, CC details. Private? Warrant?

I imagine you'd do it using cellphone data. If somebody is sick, you look at cellphone location data to figure out where the person went and when, then compare to location data for everybody else to see who else was in the same area at the same time. I think police do this all the time (though normally this would require a warrant, I think). From a technology perspective it's not that difficult. You'd miss some people who don't have a cellphone, but not that many since phones are ubiquitous these days. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

Umm, sure.  Then it's also time to:

• let drunk people drive
  
• let people who are high operate heavy machinery
  
• let people raise pigs in their suburban yards
  
• let companies pollute the streams on their property
  

I can go on, but am gonna stop I assume you can spot the flaw in your argument by now.

Please go on. 

 

[Morton Muffley]

One flaw in the analogy is that preventing people from going back to work effectively shuts down the economy and has a ton of adverse effects across the entire country.

None of the examples you mentioned are similar in that respect.

Fair point, but I was only trying to attack the "let people who are willing, take whatever risk they want" part of the argument as it seemed to me that I only needed to poke one hole in the argument for it to collapse.  

 

[Politician Spock]

One flaw in the analogy is that preventing people from going back to work effectively shuts down the economy and has a ton of adverse effects across the entire country.

None of the examples you mentioned are similar in that respect.

A pandemic has the economy shut down. Even if every politician told everyone to go back to work, only a fraction would. 

 

[msommer]

I imagine you'd do it using cellphone data. If somebody is sick, you look at cellphone location data to figure out where the person went and when, then compare to location data for everybody else to see who else was in the same area at the same time. I think police do this all the time (though normally this would require a warrant, I think). From a technology perspective it's not that difficult. You'd miss some people who don't have a cellphone, but not that many since phones are ubiquitous these days. 

If you match the person to the celphone then I believe you need a warrant. Would a judge give one on the basis of the pandemic (what are the laws under state/federal emergencies)? Would he give them to non law enforcement entities?

 

[Penguin]

The UK had 4300 new cases yesterday and 8600 new cases today

 

[FBG26]

I imagine you'd do it using cellphone data. If somebody is sick, you look at cellphone location data to figure out where the person went and when, then compare to location data for everybody else to see who else was in the same area at the same time. I think police do this all the time (though normally this would require a warrant, I think). From a technology perspective it's not that difficult. You'd miss some people who don't have a cellphone, but not that many since phones are ubiquitous these days. 

If you match the person to the celphone then I believe you need a warrant. Would a judge give one on the basis of the pandemic (what are the laws under state/federal emergencies)? Would he give them to non law enforcement entities?

Not sure of the legalities of the police matching location data to a phone, but I will say Americans surrender an awful lot of personal liberties in the name of national emergencies and security. 

From a purely technical perspective, it's actually not that hard to match location information to an individual. While the location information is supposedly anonymous, somebody with enough location data and computing power can analyze travel patterns and identify the individual with remarkable accuracy. Think about it, how many other people travel between your house and your kids school or your work everyday? 

 

[Clown Car]

Last night my 11 year-old son, who likes to share his feelings right around bedtime, told me "I think that I'm starting to lose my mind a little bit."   He was completely sincere -- he's struggling a lot with being quarantined.  The lack of ability to spend time with his friends is tough -- even though he's an introvert -- and his mental health is slipping a bit each week.  Luckily, he has a ton of support and will be fine.  But it's really tough to hear your kid talk that way.

My 8yo just said the same thing. She misses her friends and she said “I’m starting to forget their faces”. She started to tear up and I did too. 

 

[That one guy]

This may be a silly question, but my knowledge of vaccines is mostly limited to “yep, there’s a vaccine for that”:

Is it possible that multiple vaccines are found to be effective against Coronavirus?

 

[Politician Spock]

This may be a silly question, but my knowledge of vaccines is mostly limited to “yep, there’s a vaccine for that”:

Is it possible that multiple vaccines are found to be effective against Coronavirus?

My understanding is that vaccines for viruses have to be very specifically targeted, because they attack human cells too. If there were two or more vaccines, it would probably be best for the populace for one to be chosen as the most effective and least dangerous. 

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

A small clinical trial (n=61) from compassionate use of Gilead’s Remdesivir for Covid-19 has been published. 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2007016?

As expected, not a magic bullet, but somewhat promising results. This was not a blinded study.

Phase 3 trials are ongoing.

Yikes. Maybe my expectations of "promising" were too high.  I didn't read the entire thing but:

RESULTS

Of the 61 patients who received at least one dose of remdesivir, data from 8 could not be analyzed (including 7 patients with no post-treatment data and 1 with a dosing error). Of the 53 patients whose data were analyzed, 22 were in the United States, 22 in Europe or Canada, and 9 in Japan. At baseline, 30 patients (57%) were receiving mechanical ventilation and 4 (8%) were receiving extracorporeal membrane oxygenation. During a median follow-up of 18 days, 36 patients (68%) had an improvement in oxygen-support class, including 17 of 30 patients (57%) receiving mechanical ventilation who were extubated. A total of 25 patients (47%) were discharged, and 7 patients (13%) died; mortality was 18% (6 of 34) among patients receiving invasive ventilation and 5% (1 of 19) among those not receiving invasive ventilation.

ETA: not directing that at you @Whyatt, I know you were just posting the link, and I appreciate it. Had not seen that yet. 

 

[Man In The Box]

I’ve fallen way behind in this fast moving thread due to work and stuff, but just wanted to thank you all for posting information and personal experiences in here. It’s been a great tool for me and my family in not only getting a head start on prepping for this thing, but also dealing with it in real time. I’ve been here since like 2008 or so, and this has been the most invaluable thread for me by far. I wish all of you and your families well in the coming days/weeks/months. Hang in there and keep doing the right things. We’re going to get through this

 

[parasaurolophus]

Yikes. Maybe my expectations of "promising" were too high.  I didn't read the entire thing but:

RESULTS

Of the 61 patients who received at least one dose of remdesivir, data from 8 could not be analyzed (including 7 patients with no post-treatment data and 1 with a dosing error). Of the 53 patients whose data were analyzed, 22 were in the United States, 22 in Europe or Canada, and 9 in Japan. At baseline, 30 patients (57%) were receiving mechanical ventilation and 4 (8%) were receiving extracorporeal membrane oxygenation. During a median follow-up of 18 days, 36 patients (68%) had an improvement in oxygen-support class, including 17 of 30 patients (57%) receiving mechanical ventilation who were extubated. A total of 25 patients (47%) were discharged, and 7 patients (13%) died; mortality was 18% (6 of 34) among patients receiving invasive ventilation and 5% (1 of 19) among those not receiving invasive ventilation.

ETA: not directing that at you @Whyatt, I know you were just posting the link, and I appreciate it. Had not seen that yet. 

What percent normally die?

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

What percent normally die?

Yeah, not sure. And maybe the details stated if they were in really poor condition. I just skimmed. 13% just seemed high to me. Maybe it's normal for those studies. 

 

[Whyatt]

What percent normally die?

Good question. I’ve heard a wide range of 50-90% of patients on ventilators die. The report sites 66% typically die.

This  report indicates 18% on ventilators died after Remdesivir.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Yeah, not sure. And maybe the details stated if they were in really poor condition. I just skimmed. 13% just seemed high to me. Maybe it's normal for those studies. 

If they are intubated they are in very very poor condition. 

 

[Whyatt]

If they are intubated they are in very very poor condition. 

Absolutely, and most have comorbidities.

 

[rcam]

My 8yo just said the same thing. She misses her friends and she said “I’m starting to forget their faces”. She started to tear up and I did too. 

My 7 year old (tomorrow is his 7th b-day) has been making good use of Zoom and FaceTime. His teacher has a scheduled "recess" every weekday on Zoom where the kids all get to talk to one another. He has been calling my parents almost every day to give them an update on his basketball skills, Ticket to Ride skills, and Scrabble skills. We have a Zoom meeting scheduled tomorrow so his friends can sing Happy Birthday to him. The only thing he is really concerned about is:

1) Is the Easter Bunny going to come

2) What will happen if he has coronavirus

I told him rabbits can't get the coronavirus but that we might have had to leave a note telling him not to stop by if he was the Easter Bat, Easter Pangolin, or Easter Cat.

 

[Redwes25]

Massachusetts numbers are pretty ugly with back to back days of 2k cases. 

 

[Kal El]

My 8yo just said the same thing. She misses her friends and she said “I’m starting to forget their faces”. She started to tear up and I did too. 

Our kids teachers have done Zoom meetings, so the kids can see each other. It helps a lot.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Why is it safe to get takeout, but we all need to wear masks to leave the house?  Those two statements seem....oddly conflicting.

 

[Kal El]

My understanding is that vaccines for viruses have to be very specifically targeted, because they attack human cells too. If there were two or more vaccines, it would probably be best for the populace for one to be chosen as the most effective and least dangerous. 

If I remember anatomy class right, vaccines are a mix of "dead" viruses(scientists have debates about whether a virus is actually "alive" or not) and other materials designed to get the body's immune system to respond to the virus and develop antibodies that will kill it. Using a dead virus keeps the chance of an infection down considerably, and has likely saved billions of lives over the course of history.

 

[T J]

Umm, sure.  Then it's also time to:

• let drunk people drive
  
• let people who are high operate heavy machinery
  
• let people raise pigs in their suburban yards
  
• let companies pollute the streams on their property
  

I can go on, but am gonna stop I assume you can spot the flaw in your argument by now.

Child, please.

 

[top dog]

It's a collection of Ohio farms - Yellowbird foodshed

If you end up wanting to use them, we'll each get a $10 credit if you use this link: https://yellowbirdfs.com/referral.php?id=9918

From their website:

WHAT IS A FOODSHED

A Foodshed is the geographic region that produces the food for a particular population. The term is used to describe a region of food flows, from the area where it is produced, to the place where it is consumed, including: the land it grows on, the route it travels, the markets it passes through, and the tables it ends up on. The Yellowbird Foodshed is focusing it’s efforts on the population of Ohio.

WHAT WE DO

Working with over 100 food growers and producers from Ohio, our community of eaters has CAST THEIR VOTE with their fork. Each product that we eat has been sustainably raised, harvested, transported, and consumed.

Our members are constantly striving to create solutions to help restore one of the planets most fundamental, yet most corrupted system...FOOD.

By asking ourselves and our customers, “Who Grew Your Food?”, we are partnering with both food growers and consumers, to create a sustainable model that DEcentralizes our current food system through 2 ways of purchasing.

• SUBSCRIPTION PRODUCE BOXES
  
• ONLINE STORE ORDERING
  

What a great idea!  Too bad they don't deliver further north.  Closest is Ashland which is about an hour away from me.  Would TOTALLY go this route.

 

[adonis]

One flaw in the analogy is that preventing people from going back to work effectively shuts down the economy and has a ton of adverse effects across the entire country.

None of the examples you mentioned are similar in that respect.

Fair point, but I was only trying to attack the "let people who are willing, take whatever risk they want" part of the argument as it seemed to me that I only needed to poke one hole in the argument for it to collapse.  

I think we agree on the final outcome, but may disagree about whether there's a flaw in the argument or not.

I'm not sure the argument was just let people do what they want.  I assume that it's more along the lines of "given the outcomes on both sides - preventing folks from coming out, vs allowing those who want to come out - the latter has less consequences overall".  Seems to me less a logically flawed argument, than one that just doesn't properly assess the risks on one side the same as others do.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Why is it safe to get takeout, but we all need to wear masks to leave the house?  Those two statements seem....oddly conflicting.

I haven't worn a mask the few times I've been out for supplies and takeout, but I am hyper aware of my hands being near my face, and am sure not to do any face-touching without having washed my hands first. 

 

[adonis]

I haven't worn a mask the few times I've been out for supplies and takeout, but I am hyper aware of my hands being near my face, and am sure not to do any face-touching without having washed my hands first. 

Masks are also to help prevent you from spreading the virus to someone else, if you happen to be asymptomatic but a spreader.

I assume we can get takeout because the cleanliness standards of restaurants is expected to be high, and your interactions are limited, whereas just being out in public, you're more likely to just interact with a lot of random folks of varying states of cleanliness, infection, age, etc.  So in those general cases, the general admonition to wear a mask is wise, but for take out food, a specific use case, it seems to be relatively lower risk.  Although I'd imagine they suggest you wear a mask then too.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Why is it safe to get takeout, but we all need to wear masks to leave the house?  Those two statements seem....oddly conflicting.

Not really. Masks can keep you from sneezing or coughing all over somebody or something. They can also keep sneeze and cough juice from getting in your mouth. 

The food itself should be safe on account of being warm. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

I wouldnt think poop weighing is an exact science.  Frankly, estimation is not an exact science ever.

Of course, but some estimates are more FOS than others.

 

[Courtjester]

The hardest thing is telling my severely depressed 15 year old daughter, who has been cooped up in this house since she was released from her treatment facility in early March, no to every little thing. We took so much for granted. All she wants is a Dairy Queen blizzard,  but it just isn't worth the risk.

The few times we have left this house, I have literally gone through how the process is going to go in my mind before I leave. Glove on one hand that opens doors and whatever I am picking up--other hand doesn't have glove so it can handle credit card/key fob/phone. Think about path I am taking into the pharmacy or where I need to go.  Back at the car--item goes in trunk. Glove comes off into a plastic trash bag. Both hands sanitized and then washed thoroughly when I get home and mask sanitized. If It is a longer exposure like the pharmacy I, or my wife if she goes, shower and change clothes the minute we get home. Maybe overkill? But I want to survive this. 

I have run through the DQ scenario in my head--the person is going to take my cc and run it through the machine. The person will touch the cup, the lid and the spoon which they stick in the blizzard (who knows who touched the top of the spoon?) The person will also be talking to me out the window. Too many points of contact and interaction for my taste for something not necessary.  

Still hurts as a parent to not be able to do such a simple thing for your kid. 

 

[Penguin]

Now I want a blizzard 

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

The hardest thing is telling my severely depressed 15 year old daughter, who has been cooped up in this house since she was released from her treatment facility in early March, no to every little thing. We took so much for granted. All she wants is a Dairy Queen blizzard,  but it just isn't worth the risk.

The few times we have left this house, I have literally gone through how the process is going to go in my mind before I leave. Glove on one hand that opens doors and whatever I am picking up--other hand doesn't have glove so it can handle credit card/key fob/phone. Think about path I am taking into the pharmacy or where I need to go.  Back at the car--item goes in trunk. Glove comes off into a plastic trash bag. Both hands sanitized and then washed thoroughly when I get home and mask sanitized. If It is a longer exposure like the pharmacy I, or my wife if she goes, shower and change clothes the minute we get home. Maybe overkill? But I want to survive this. 

I have run through the DQ scenario in my head--the person is going to take my cc and run it through the machine. The person will touch the cup, the lid and the spoon which they stick in the blizzard (who knows who touched the top of the spoon?) The person will also be talking to me out the window. Too many points of contact and interaction for my taste for something not necessary.  

Still hurts as a parent to not be able to do such a simple thing for your kid. 

I feel you, man. This single dad is struggling with my kids wanting stuff. I've caved on takeout a couple of times, mainly to save what little is left of my sanity.  I honestly think you're fine on takeout with just washing your hands thoroughly, coupled with being hyper-vigilant about not touching your face prior to hand-washing. If you're wanting extreme precaution, then take it home, pour into your own vessels, throw away the restaurant stuff and scrub yourself thoroughly. Might be worth what I, personally, would consider minimal risk, just for your child's satisfaction and everyone's mental state. Either way, no judgment if you decide it's too much risk. We all are looking out for our own here and everyone will assess things differently. 

 

[otb_lifer]

Now I want a blizzard 

forecast for down your way may just deliver, no? 

 

[gruecd]

Not sure if this has been posted already or not, but...

The Viral ‘Study’ About Runners Spreading Coronavirus Is Not Actually a Study

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Not really. Masks can keep you from sneezing or coughing all over somebody or something. They can also keep sneeze and cough juice from getting in your mouth. 

The food itself should be safe on account of being warm. 

Is the cook who makes the takeout....wearing a mask?

 

[Cowboysfan8]

The hardest thing is telling my severely depressed 15 year old daughter, who has been cooped up in this house since she was released from her treatment facility in early March, no to every little thing. We took so much for granted. All she wants is a Dairy Queen blizzard,  but it just isn't worth the risk.

The few times we have left this house, I have literally gone through how the process is going to go in my mind before I leave. Glove on one hand that opens doors and whatever I am picking up--other hand doesn't have glove so it can handle credit card/key fob/phone. Think about path I am taking into the pharmacy or where I need to go.  Back at the car--item goes in trunk. Glove comes off into a plastic trash bag. Both hands sanitized and then washed thoroughly when I get home and mask sanitized. If It is a longer exposure like the pharmacy I, or my wife if she goes, shower and change clothes the minute we get home. Maybe overkill? But I want to survive this. 

I have run through the DQ scenario in my head--the person is going to take my cc and run it through the machine. The person will touch the cup, the lid and the spoon which they stick in the blizzard (who knows who touched the top of the spoon?) The person will also be talking to me out the window. Too many points of contact and interaction for my taste for something not necessary.  

Still hurts as a parent to not be able to do such a simple thing for your kid. 

Can your wife take her? Hand them cash and have them keep the change so you don’t have your card touched?

I feel like she deserves a Blizzard

 

[TheWinz]

Not really. Masks can keep you from sneezing or coughing all over somebody or something. They can also keep sneeze and cough juice from getting in your mouth. 

The food itself should be safe on account of being warm. 

I wear a mask indoors (other than my house), and in close proximity to others while outdoors.  My wife (stay at home mom) has become the hunter/gatherer because I have been working from home for the last 3 weeks.  My wife has been to the grocery store/package store/gas station only as needed, and wears mask & gloves.  We don't sanitize things she brings home, but we wash our hands often.  The county I live in has just surpassed 150 positives, with 17 hospitalizations and 7 deaths.  If the virus infects our house, it will be my wife herself, not something she carries in.

 

[adonis]

Can your wife take her? Hand them cash and have them keep the change so you don’t have your card touched?

I feel like she deserves a Blizzard

That's a good idea.  Call ahead and find out the exact cost.  Bring exact change with you, and you should be able to do this whole transaction extremely low risk.

 

[Angry Beavers]

or can you make a blizzard at home? - it might not be the same, but it may help her mental state. This is a tough one for everyone. I have let my 19 year old go to Dunkin donuts for a coffee once a day. It isn't that I can't make coffee, i think it is being stuck in the house all day, doing college classes online etc.  I realize that there is risk there, but it is minimal in my opinion particularly if you wash your hands, change containers when you get home etc.