*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (12 Viewers)

[Doug B]

Called my son’s preschool to tell them we were going to hold him out for the next two weeks to see if the numbers in Florida would stop being a total forest fire. She said no problem, and she’s really hopeful that in the future they’ll approve Hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin for the kiddos when sick. “But the doctors just won’t prescribe it for anybody.”

I hung up and thought, yea we are making the right call here. 

Would be very tempted not to send him back ever, but that's easy for me to say behind a keyboard 1,000 miles away.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Maybe I'm just looking too hard through my own personal perspective ... but I've often thought that "never-vaxxers" were almost all "faking" their stances. IOW ... that when push comes to shove, it's not been safety concerns or anything like that -- it's been "you can't tell me what to do, and you don't have the leverage to make me!" Just anti-authoritarianism, and not an actual conscientious objection.

I mean ... is the uncertainty of having to obtain new employment totally worth it to spurn a vaccine that you really know (c'mon ... they know by now) is not dangerous? I guess I don't believe that anti-vaxxers really believe what they're saying out loud

Guess we'll see.

There are people out there who believe that JFK, Jr. is alive (and I actually personally know the guy that they think is JFK, Jr.)

 

[Capella]

Would be very tempted not to send him back ever, but that's easy for me to say behind a keyboard 1,000 miles away.

Oh I told my wife they’re psychotic. She’s enrolling him in an online preschool now lol. 

 

[gianmarco]

I think you’re naive on this. Some of these folks are quite literally willing to die over the issue.

Though OnlyFans banning adult content may cause a lot of them to re-think their position.

Willing to die at a small percentage is different than 100% chance of losing income. 

 

[Doug B]

I imagine this will be a fairly small number of people, but FDA approval does at least give folks a face-saving excuse for doing a 180 on vaccination.  At least some of the people probably realize that they're being jackwagons by refusing the vaccine, but they didn't have a clear off-ramp.  Now they do.

Better said.

 

[Doug B]

Approximately zero anti-vaxers are so bought into their position that they'll forgo income over it.

I think you’re naive on this. Some of these folks are quite literally willing to die over the issue.

Folks like that are out there, and I think all of us in the thread acknowledge. The slight disagreements concern the number of these folks. Is like 3/4 of all currently unvaxxed? Or is more like 10%? Somewhere in the middle? Stay tuned.

 

[Doug B]

There are people out there who believe that JFK, Jr. is alive (and I actually personally know the guy that they think is JFK, Jr.)

No doubt -- but not in high numbers, one hopes.

 

[jobarules]

Do you think a good amount of people who are anti-mandate would be pro-mandate if they weren't previously infected? I certainly don't, and I'd wager that a higher percentage of anti-mandate folks have tested positive than pro-mandate.

Hard to tell. Most of the anti mandate people I know are also previously infected

 

[jobarules]

I know DOZENS of people who have had Covid in the last 18 months in the NYC area. Several of them above 65 (at least 10),  obese, high blood pressure (my wife), diabetes (my brother), etc. Not a single one ended up in the hospital. All of them had either mild or flu like symptoms at worse. This is why it's hard to convince some people to get vaxxed. Heck even 0.1% of me has my doubts about how serious covid is. I even voiced them early on in this thread although I'm not saying it's overblown I understand until it actually hits you close and personal to have doubts.

 

[Doug B]

The holidays are right around the corner and I am dreading it ...

The problem I see coming is this is our 17 year old daughter's Senior year and we are already looking for venues to hold the graduation party.  I am going to look like a complete hypocrite for sending invites to a party, when in fact I am not willing to attend their celebrations. 

Got a little of this going on in our family, except almost everyone is actually vaccinated. But most of family (both wife's side and mine) don't really respect COVID -- a few have been infected, but everyone's has generally skated through, even with obesity and other comorbidities. My sister lost her sense of taste for about a month -- that's been the absolute worst anyone's experienced in our close family.

Anyway. During the past COVID spikes locally, we've hunkered down and mostly avoided get-togethers (a few carefully-executed exceptions). After our vaccinations, we relaxed on the get-together moratorium and had an outdoor graduation party in May for my (vaccinated) daughter. That went swimmingly, and everyone from both sides attended. Seemed like it was going to be a watershed for everyone's respective COVID concerns. We knew it wasn't over, but we felt like we were on the other side.

Fast forward three months. Delta is ravaging Louisiana and the local area. One of my SIL's wants to have an indoor-dining birthday dinner for my FIL (in a "masks are for flags!**" locale, to boot). She has no idea why no one wants to attend. "You gotta keep on living your life!" No, we don't "gotta" do anything.

Maybe we look inconsistent in taking another moratorium on social activities when we hosted a big blowout in May. But so what? Conditions on the ground or wildly different now -- screw "consistency".

** said in a Jeff Spiccoli voice

 

[humpback]

Hard to tell. Most of the anti mandate people I know are also previously infected

Same, most that I know are in the "just a flu" camp- they're typically also anti-mask, pro-gathering, pro-schools wide open- just generally don't take covid very seriously.

Still don't think any of them would be pro-mandate if they hadn't been infected, just doesn't fit the MO.

 

[gianmarco]

I know DOZENS of people who have had Covid in the last 18 months in the NYC area. Several of them above 65 (at least 10),  obese, high blood pressure (my wife), diabetes (my brother), etc. Not a single one ended up in the hospital. All of them had either mild or flu like symptoms at worse. This is why it's hard to convince some people to get vaxxed. Heck even 0.1% of me has my doubts about how serious covid is. I even voiced them early on in this thread although I'm not saying it's overblown I understand until it actually hits you close and personal to have doubts.

650,000 people have died in the US in just 18 months and part of you doubts how serious it is? Even with people posting here about losing loved ones?

The vaccine hesitancy for so many is something that will remain difficult to understand.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

650,000 people have died in the US in just 18 months and part of you doubts how serious it is? Even with people posting here about losing loved ones?

The vaccine hesitancy for so many is something that will remain difficult to understand.

650,000 dead, with the entire country shutting down for months and with other mitigation (plus vaccines eventually) for 18 months.  It would have been millions.

 

[Doug B]

I know DOZENS of people who have had Covid in the last 18 months in the NYC area. Several of them above 65 (at least 10),  obese, high blood pressure (my wife), diabetes (my brother), etc. Not a single one ended up in the hospital. All of them had either mild or flu like symptoms at worse. This is why it's hard to convince some people to get vaxxed. Heck even 0.1% of me has my doubts about how serious covid is. I even voiced them early on in this thread although I'm not saying it's overblown I understand until it actually hits you close and personal to have doubts.

The problem is, COVID is chaotic and unpredictable. And the "stuff we know" from "the people around us" really doesn't inform us at all. Only when we get up high and look at the entire anthill do we begin to learn anything about the effects of COVID on a society.

Look at my post above to Courtjester. My family and my wife's family have moonwalked through COVID infections, comorbidities and all. Much like the people you said that you know who've gotten through COVID. The people in my family and my wife's family all do have friends and/or family-by-marriage that have died from COVID, though. Still, our families themselves have been spared even of serious aftereffects.

Yet different people in our families have taken different lessons from these experiences. Some of us really only seem to learn from inside themselves: "What happens to me and mine is REAL -- everything else is doubtful and dodgy". Others of us want as much information from as many different people in as many different places as we can get -- we want to aggregate and synthesize, not fully trusting what we've seen up close to be the total picture.

And so, you get the family-gathering standoffs like what Courtjester and I are going through. And I guess those same competing ethics get written larger when you pan out and view the competing factions in American society today.

EDIT: Gah -- I coulda taken a minute to edit these typos  

 

[jobarules]

650,000 people have died in the US in just 18 months and part of you doubts how serious it is? Even with people posting here about losing loved ones?

The vaccine hesitancy for so many is something that will remain difficult to understand.

Yes I don't know any of the 650k people that died nor their health situation nor if they actually died of covid and not with covid nor do I know anyone on these boards personally. 

Not sure how that changes my 0.1% doubts equation.

 

[humpback]

"It'll never happen to me", until it does and it's too late.

 

[gianmarco]

Yes I don't know any of the 650k people that died nor their health situation nor if they actually died of covid and not with covid nor do I know anyone on these boards personally. 

Not sure how that changes my 0.1% doubts equation.

Well, I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but...

Do you personally know at least 1 person that has died of each of the following?

1) Heart attack

2) Cancer

3) Accidental injury

4) Emphysema or chronic bronchitis

5) Stroke

6) Alzheimer's

7) Diabetes

8 ) Pneumonia

9) Kidney disease

10) Suicide

 

[AAABatteries]

650,000 dead, with the entire country shutting down for months and with other mitigation (plus vaccines eventually) for 18 months.  It would have been millions.

I said it before but it's possible that the virus hit a sweet spot between not being severe enough to scare the crap out of everyone and just severe enough to kill hundreds of thousands.  There's no doubt in my mind our vaccination rate would be much higher if more people knew someone close to them that was relatively healthy and not old and died.

 

[AAABatteries]

Since just being protected from dying doesn't seem to be enough maybe we need to fight fire with fire against those crazy vax side effects:

I got the vax and my dong grew 3 inches!!

I got the vax and became fluent in Spanish in 2 weeks!

I got the vax and my dog stopped farting in the bed!

 

[gianmarco]

I said it before but it's possible that the virus hit a sweet spot between not being severe enough to scare the crap out of everyone and just severe enough to kill hundreds of thousands.  There's no doubt in my mind our vaccination rate would be much higher if more people knew someone close to them that was relatively healthy and not old and died.

It's just a matter of time before everyone knows at least one person that has died from Covid, unfortunately.

 

[jobarules]

Well, I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but...

Do you personally know at least 1 person that has died of each of the following?

1) Heart attack- yes, my aunt's boyfriend 

2) Cancer- my mother and MIL

3) Accidental injury- no several younger friends of friends that have died in car accidents

4) Emphysema or chronic bronchitis- yes my FIL mother

5) Stroke- my daughter 

6) Alzheimer's- not yet but my wife's mother has it

7) Diabetes- my brother has type 1 since 10

8 ) Pneumonia- yes a friend earlier this year had it and died on a vent, kept testing negative for covid

9) Kidney disease- no

10) Suicide-unfortunately yes a friend's brother 

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

I said it before but it's possible that the virus hit a sweet spot between not being severe enough to scare the crap out of everyone and just severe enough to kill hundreds of thousands.  There's no doubt in my mind our vaccination rate would be much higher if more people knew someone close to them that was relatively healthy and not old and died.

Agreed. For me, it wasn't even seeing death, though that certainly hammered things home. It started for me with seeing all the weird crap some people that I know were having (the smell/taste issues, weird nerve problems, etc. etc.). That immediately made my spidey senses tingle and I was like "No thank you to all of that!" even if it was a small risk in the grand scheme of things. 

 

[gianmarco]

So, given that response, do you have doubt that kidney disease kills 50,000 people in the US? Even 0.1% doubt?

I mean, you don't know any of the 50k people that died nor their health situation nor if they actually died of kidney disease and not with kidney disease nor do you know anyone on these boards personally. 

ETA -- I'm sorry for all those losses too.

 

[jobarules]

So, given that response, do you have doubt that kidney disease kills 50,000 people in the US? Even 0.1% doubt?

I dont know a single person HOSPITALIZED with covid. I know people who have been HOSPITALIZED with kidney issues. My diabetic brother might die of kidney disease as it's a common complication of diabetes.

 

[gianmarco]

I dont know a single person HOSPITALIZED with covid. I know people who have been HOSPITALIZED with kidney issues. My diabetic brother might die of kidney disease as it's a common complication of diabetes.

But you wouldn't believe it if your brother didn't have it?

I hope you're getting my point. But, we can let it go. 

 

[jobarules]

But you wouldn't believe it if your brother didn't have it?

I hope you're getting my point. But, we can let it go. 

Kidney disease has been around for thousands of years and my whole life. Your point is pretty dumb.

 

[jobarules]

Willing to die at a small percentage is different than 100% chance of losing income. 

Lmao at losing income. The government has been handing money hand over fist to people this past year. There are employee shortages everywhere. You still can't evict people who don't pay rent. The CDC said it's a public health crisis to do so. Socialism 101.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I said it before but it's possible that the virus hit a sweet spot between not being severe enough to scare the crap out of everyone and just severe enough to kill hundreds of thousands.  There's no doubt in my mind our vaccination rate would be much higher if more people knew someone close to them that was relatively healthy and not old and died.

Also something I repeated earlier in the thread, but I think the way viral outbreaks are often portrayed in popular culture (The Stand, Contagion) may have played a role. I think a lot of people just assumed that pandemic would mean total societal breakdown, bodies lying in the streets, etc. And when that didn't happen, and the only people they knew who had it experienced mild symptoms, it allowed them to decide that the whole thing was overblown and we should get back to normal (which is what they were already predisposed to believe.)

 

[Dickies]

This is a Facebook friend of mine and a MATH teacher in my sons school. I don't disagree with the gist of her post but her stats are complete BS. Still I refuse to comment.

NYC teachers and school employees do not give in!!!! This is unconstitutional and after they come for us they will come for our children!  We have to fight back! 
We know what can happen by getting the covid virus but we DO NOT know the long term effects of the vaccine.  We do know that there is a 0.0001% chance of dying from Covid but there is a 4-9% chance your child will get a heart condition ! That is a fact!  It doesn’t make sense!  
If you are a teacher and vaccinated yet there is a positive case in your class, then you don’t have to quarantine BUT you can still contract the virus and pass it along to others.  There is absolutely no benefit to getting the vaccine except you can go to a freaking movie theater yippee.  
Those of you who asked “how are you being forced?”  Well now you know.  I won’t give in!  Offer me another donut and maybe I ll change my mind. GTFO it’s not happening. Fight back fight back fight back!!!!!

I know so many people who are scared of losing their job and losing their homes etc but we have to fight back or we will continue to lose more and more freedoms!!!

The 0.0001% chance of dying is complete nonsense because 0.2% of the US population has died from Covid. 

 

[kface]

The 0.0001% chance of dying is complete nonsense because 0.2% of the US population has died from Covid. 

It's all grossly wrong....

. According to the data in the US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), approximately 40.6 cases of myocarditis per million second doses among males and 4.2 cases per million among females have been reported as of 11 June 2021  in persons 12-29 years of age who received the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines.

 

[Rustoleum]

Perhaps she has MIS-C?

Still no definitive diagnosis. Doctors still leaning towards her body reacting to Covid antibodies.  Unsure if her body is attacking the antibodies or the antibodies are attacking other systems.

My dad says her fever did break but her “numbers”are still high. Dads a retired band director. I should probably get info from my stepmother, the ultrasound tech instead of through him.

Anyway he says they are treating by administering blood from donors with antibodies and that could take a couple days to hopefully work.

So, moderate improvement but still not in great shape.

 

[Dickies]

It's all grossly wrong....

. According to the data in the US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), approximately 40.6 cases of myocarditis per million second doses among males and 4.2 cases per million among females have been reported as of 11 June 2021  in persons 12-29 years of age who received the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines.

Compared to 450 cases of myocarditis per million among males age 12-17 from catching Covid.

Link

 

[The Commish]

I expect it will become "we don't know the long term effects" which of course is an ever-moving target, coupled with "we won't comply" logic

They don't know the long term effects of the vaccines like they don't know the long term effects of the treatments they will gladly be taking at the hospital once they get COVID and have to be hospitalized....it's a really weird/poorly thought out position.

 

[gianmarco]

They don't know the long term effects of the vaccines like they don't know the long term effects of the treatments they will gladly be taking at the hospital once they get COVID and have to be hospitalized....it's a really weird/poorly thought out position.

Or the long term effects of Covid (although we kinda already know some). We also know many viruses do have long term effects.

Also, we do know the long term effects of other vaccines. Essentially there are none. Any effects are known to happen shortly after getting the vaccine. There's no reason to think this vaccine will be any different.

 

[JaxBill]

USF epidemiologist projects Florida Covid to peak this week and possible herd immunity by September 11th

 

[culdeus]

650,000 dead, with the entire country shutting down for months and with other mitigation (plus vaccines eventually) for 18 months.  It would have been millions.

I said it before but it's possible that the virus hit a sweet spot between not being severe enough to scare the crap out of everyone and just severe enough to kill hundreds of thousands.  There's no doubt in my mind our vaccination rate would be much higher if more people knew someone close to them that was relatively healthy and not old and died.

100% these.  We are in a class that probably has a median income of 200k household and a WFH type job.  By and large this hit old fat people hard and none of us are old.  Some fat.  

If it was less selective people would have a completely different reaction.   The fact it barely touched kids at all less than the flu even made it that the overwhelming number of us couldn't gaf

 

[jamny]

USF epidemiologist projects Florida Covid to peak this week and possible herd immunity by September 11th

Seeing multiple states look as if they are on a downturn in new cases. Hopefully it will be clearly evident over the next week or so and we will be moving past Delta.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

My wife's Qanon, anti-vax, virus is a hoax, George Soros and Bill Gates are evil, and Big Pharma controls all friend is a HS statistics teacher . . . . 

What are the odds of that?

 

[Zegras11]

I know DOZENS of people who have had Covid in the last 18 months in the NYC area. Several of them above 65 (at least 10),  obese, high blood pressure (my wife), diabetes (my brother), etc. Not a single one ended up in the hospital. All of them had either mild or flu like symptoms at worse. This is why it's hard to convince some people to get vaxxed. Heck even 0.1% of me has my doubts about how serious covid is. I even voiced them early on in this thread although I'm not saying it's overblown I understand until it actually hits you close and personal to have doubts.

I know of twp people that have died now and four others that lost a family member.  Another dozen that have been in the hospital.  And probably 30 that are having long hauler issues right now, and most of them had it December or before. 

All you have to do is visit an ER on any day and ask a few questions to not have an opinion that it's minor.

 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

All you have to do is visit an ER on any day and ask a few questions to not have an opinion that it's minor.

I agree it's not minor, which is exactly why I wouldn't recommend visiting an ER right now.

 

[parasaurolophus]

North Carolina State University COVID-19 Research page ( @parasaurolophus has gotta be cringing at that mask picture   ). 

But thank god there is no exhalation valve, amirite???

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Did anyone post about EUA for under 18 was not approved for Moderna because the heart risk to young people was greater than they thought? This is why people (including me) are hesitant to get their child vaccinated with Pfizer (both mRNA).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/19/moderna-vaccine-myocarditis/

"Greater than they thought" does not mean "so great that it's definitely unsafe." There was a signal and they need more data so they can get a better handle on just how common this is. That's how the regulatory process works. We don't yet know what the added data will tell us. 

 

[culdeus]

Seeing multiple states look as if they are on a downturn in new cases. Hopefully it will be clearly evident over the next week or so and we will be moving past Delta.

Texas is for sure on the way towards peaking, down, maybe not yet.  

 

[DJackson10]

Called my son’s preschool to tell them we were going to hold him out for the next two weeks to see if the numbers in Florida would stop being a total forest fire. She said no problem, and she’s really hopeful that in the future they’ll approve Hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin for the kiddos when sick. “But the doctors just won’t prescribe it for anybody.”

I hung up and thought, yea we are making the right call here. 

You should just home school him. Don't let him learn the American White Washed history the schools teach and have been for yrs. Honestly If I had kids right now and could afford it I'd home school them at this point. If they got kids around the neighborhood they can play with cool and let them hang out etc. But honestly I don't trust the American school education system and unless things change college Wise financials and all I wouldn't press them for college either. Take up a trade or something instead. 

 

[Pip's Invitation]

There is a strong possibility that the very same people who are at risk of suffering from myocarditis from the vaccine are the very most at risk of suffering myocarditis from the disease.  It's only theorized so far, but it makes sense.  If your immune system reacts to the vaccine that way it is likely to react to the disease that way.  

And one of the first non-lung effects of the virus that the medical community discovered was ... myocarditis. 

 

[jamny]

Texas is for sure on the way towards peaking, down, maybe not yet.  

yeah, Texas and Georgia are still rising.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Approximately zero anti-vaxers are so bought into their position that they'll forgo income over it.

owever, to show you the mindset I am dealing with, my one sister has already announced she is going to walk away from her $100,000 a year job if they institute a vaccine policy at her workplace. 

The n is at least 1. 

 

[DJackson10]

Same, most that I know are in the "just a flu" camp- they're typically also anti-mask, pro-gathering, pro-schools wide open- just generally don't take covid very seriously.

Still don't think any of them would be pro-mandate if they hadn't been infected, just doesn't fit the MO.

Got a bunch of friends in this camp also pro trump and a few I think are getting close to me referring to them as Q Members at this point but not close enough to call yet. My favorite Anti Vaxxer now is a friend who tells everyone that the stuff in there might be harmful to his body and he's getting healthy, Yet smokes 2 packs of cancer sticks a day and drinks like no other at times. 

I think a lot of these anti mask/anti vaxxers are just Anti Authority honestly but do such a great job of contradicting themselves constantly. 

My Dad was in the "just a flu" camp when Covid started but when my mom ended up with Covid (she was bed ridden but not bad enough for hospitalization and a former breast cancer survivor) he quickly changed his tune. That and I think my brother working in the medical field of data research a talk to my dad by him helped. Most of my Mom's family is pretty carefully and surprisingly most of my dad's side (My uncles and Aunt) besides my one aunt who is a complete loon. I have a second cousin (who's husband's niece went to school with me) the two of them and their kids are part of the just a flu and big trump supporters to my Aunt and Uncle's disproval there. My Dad's one aunt told me my 2nd Cousin's son came to see her to get something right in the middle of the pandemic last summer and was there without wearing a mask or anything. I'm not sure how my Uncle (Mom's youngest brother) feels with all of this but I know my Aunt takes it seriously despite her dad being a whack job. My uncle's FIL got mad at him for using Zoom last year for Christmas with us because of some conspiracy theory of China stealing or mining our data that was proven false. So yeah my aunt deals with that constantly. 

Overall I've been fortunate with my family. 

 

[DJackson10]

Well, I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but...

Do you personally know at least 1 person that has died of each of the following?

1) Heart attack

2) Cancer

3) Accidental injury

4) Emphysema or chronic bronchitis

5) Stroke

6) Alzheimer's

7) Diabetes

8 ) Pneumonia

9) Kidney disease

10) Suicide

Can I add an 11th in Overdose

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

The n is at least 1. 

Maybe, but I’d love to see @Courtjester come back and tell us if his sister actually quits her job. I bet a lot of these types can talk a big game, but when it comes to actually giving up their livelihoods they’ll think twice