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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
I doubt mixing Moderna and Pfizer would do much harm or give significant benefit. From available information it looks like Moderna is the winner so far with longer lasting immunity and better coverage against Delta. My thought is that this is mainly due to the higher dose than superiority of Moderna with efficacy balancing out with the boosters.
A mix of J&J with mRNA on the other hand may give you that better ‘two method’ immunity. Likewise natural immunity + mRNA seems to produce a super immunity as well.
By November I’m guessing we see a vaccine Wild West with boosters and mixing approved along with younger kids. One thing to remember if they don’t approve a wild spread booster for Moderna…that’s a good thing. That likely means that there’s not enough evidence to show that a booster is needed because the vaccine works so well. If the FDA/CDC says everyone needs to run out and get a booster after 6 months, that’s when we’re in trouble. With every additional shot, you’re gonna lose a portion of the population. If the data shows boosters are desperately needed after 6 months, our at-risk groups will grow and so will vaccine hesitancy. The best thing to happen would be a repeat of Pfizer with divided panel.
I wouldn’t mind seeing them coming up with risk scale to help people decide if they need a booster shot. Use age, health conditions and exposure risk to give you a risk score and help you decide if you need to get the booster.
See you didn’t wait to hear my advice and that’s what happens! I would have told you get both, so it wouldn’t have mattered. Lymph node swelling while weird is a semi-common reaction. Nothing to worry about, will probably resolve in a couple days and just a sign your immune system is building good COVID stopping troops.
Yeah you took too long lol
The pain is pretty severe. It scared me because it didn't happen my first two shots.
Yeah work is hell right now. We’re so understaffed and overworked that it’s become dangerous. And somehow we’re not doing enough.
I wouldn’t worry about any symptoms unless they linger after the weekend.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
My cousin and her family are all anti-vax. Her 16 yo daughter has pretty serious heart problems, and now she has Covid. All of a sudden my cousin is texting us all to tell us we should take Covid seriously.
(“You stay healthy too. Keep a close eye on your family this is no joke! This Covid is BAD NEWS!! Love you all!!”)
I’m not going to lecture her, just going to encourage them all to do whatever the doctors say, including to get vaccinated when appropriate. As of now, my cousin and her husband haven’t tested positive. But her daughter has been really sick the past 2-3 days.
(“You stay healthy too. Keep a close eye on your family this is no joke! This Covid is BAD NEWS!! Love you all!!”)
I’m not going to lecture her, just going to encourage them all to do whatever the doctors say, including to get vaccinated when appropriate. As of now, my cousin and her husband haven’t tested positive. But her daughter has been really sick the past 2-3 days.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
My ex-boss just sent me a link to a video from the Stew Peters Show. Never heard of the guy but he was adamant I watch it because it proves without a shadow of a doubt that the vaccines are being used as manipulation of the population and the enforcement of behavioral modification. I won't post this stuff here but he legit believes this is what's going on and that the deep state is coming for me & you and using this pandemic as a way to get there. He also believes the vaccine is injecting some kind of electronic tracking via a method called Electroporation.
There are thousands upon thousands who believe this stuff. I can't believe the conviction these people have.
There are thousands upon thousands who believe this stuff. I can't believe the conviction these people have.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
worrierking
Footballguy
I still like posting these things even though they never pan out:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-10-scientists-highly-potent-antibody-sars-cov-.html
I'll keep following it just in case.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-10-scientists-highly-potent-antibody-sars-cov-.html
I'll keep following it just in case.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
There’s a bunch of personality disorders, which are characterized by traits you may see even in “normal” people. A disorder is present only when the traits hinder ones functioning in society, particularly interpersonal relationships.
I’m convinced many of these conspiracists are somewhere on the spectrum of schizotypal personality disorder, and the internet just makes it easier to find like-minded crazies. I guess it’s OK, as long as they don’t harm others (or themselves) through their unconventional beliefs.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
You know I had this also. I didn't associate with the booster shot but it seems possible now that you mention it.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Yeah took about five or sis days from appearance to mostly gone. Had one big one in left pit and much smaller one in right pit. Stung like all get out forms day or two and then pretty well gone. I’m going in to get double checked just in case. Hate to mistake some thing else for a vaccine side effect.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I did just read somewhere that the booster is more likely to cause swollen lymph nodes than the first or second shot was.
fatness
Footballguy
I don't know how easily this could be done but I sure like the idea. It's information-based, allows people to assess themselves objectively to go along with their subjective feelings.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
It actually would have been nice to see such a matrix basically anytime in the past 18 months. No idea why our public health officials couldn’t pull that together…..ever.fatness said:
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
This should be part of the autopsy. I have not read Scott Gotlieb's book yet, but basically, we just were not set up to really deal with the public for a pandemic like this.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
Honestly we could probably do it. The data is out there. Would involve some interpolation and educated guessing, but you could likely build out a efficacy curve for each vax, then factor in comorbidity risk factors as they've been loosely quantified.
Given the lack of absolute data, could probably get it down to a scale from 1-5 or 1-10 with a pretty decent degree of accuracy.
Could be as simple as:
Start at 5
Then -/+ a point for every decade over/under 40 you are. Example 20yo = 3, and 70yo is 8.
Then adjust for comorbidities... +/- points for BMI ranges... + points for hypertension, Diabetes, etc.
Then factor in vaccines and timeline... Each vax reduces a certain # of points initially then adds a certain number of points per month after last shot.
Etc... that's a 3 minute stab at it but it would seem to be pretty doable.
Obviously there are exceptions to every rule.. there are 20yo highly fit kids who die of it... there are fully vaxxed, fit 35yo's who die.... that wouldn't mean that overall it's a good guide to relative risk
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
good piece on immunity (vaccine, natural, and hybrid):
COVID super-immunity: one of the pandemic’s great puzzles
COVID super-immunity: one of the pandemic’s great puzzles
- Differences between the memory B cells triggered by infection and those triggered by vaccination — as well as the antibodies they make — might also underlie the heightened responses of hybrid immunity. Infection and vaccination expose the spike protein to the immune system in vastly different ways, Nussenzweig says.
- There is some evidence that people who received both jabs without previously being infected seem to be catching up. Ellebedy’s team collected lymph-node samples from mRNA-vaccinated individuals and found signs that some of their memory B cells triggered by the vaccination were gaining mutations, up to 12 weeks after the second dose, that enabled them to recognize diverse coronaviruses, including some that cause common colds.
- A third vaccine dose might allow people who haven't been infected to achieve the benefits of hybrid immunity, says Matthieu Mahévas, an immunologist at the Necker Institute for Sick Children in Paris. His team found that some of the memory B cells from naive vaccine recipients could recognize Beta and Delta, two months after vaccination
- Extending the interval between vaccine doses could also mimic aspects of hybrid immunity. In 2021, amid scarce vaccine supplies and a surge in cases, officials in the Canadian province of Quebec recommended a 16-week interval between first and second doses (since reduced to 8 weeks).
- As breakthrough infections caused by the Delta variant stack up, researchers including Nussenzweig are keen to study the immunity in people who were infected after their COVID-19 vaccinations, rather than before. An individual’s first exposure to influenza virus biases their responses to subsequent exposures and vaccinations — a phenomenon called original antigenic sin — and researchers want to know if this occurs with SARS-CoV-2.
- Those studying hybrid immunity stress that — whatever the potential benefits — the risks of a SARS-CoV-2 infection mean that it should be avoided. “We are not inviting anybody to get infected and then vaccinated to have a good response,” says Finzi. “Because some of them will not make it through.”
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
@beer 30 and anyone else who might know... this is good, right?
Air Quality & Filtration
... [big venue] is outfitted with MERV-13 filtration, which exceeds suggested minimum guidelines. As an additional protective measure, we have tested and balanced the entire ventilation system to ensure maximum number of air exchanges in all occupied spaces.
Air Quality & Filtration
... [big venue] is outfitted with MERV-13 filtration, which exceeds suggested minimum guidelines. As an additional protective measure, we have tested and balanced the entire ventilation system to ensure maximum number of air exchanges in all occupied spaces.
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[icon]
Insoxicated
Apparently MERV-13 to 16 is considered "general hospital quality" filtration... 17-20 is surgical suite level.
I'd say that's pretty solid.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
As @[icon]said it’s good. It’s not as good as HEPA but it’s better than nothing.
This article explains the differences pretty succinctly. MERV captures about 75-80% of ‘stuff’, HEPA captures 99.5% or something like that. MERV let’s in smaller particles that HEPA captures.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Too many variables: comorbidities, exposure risk, viral strains, vaccine choice, durability of immunity and a changing population of vulnerable people, to name a few.
I know FBGs are smarter than average bears, but public health messages work better when they are simple, and fairly uniform. Focusing too much on individual risk also dilutes the message of herd immunity.
While I agree healthcare is too opaque, rolling out a complex risk stratification tool for public consumption during a novel pandemic would not improve (and would probably impede) vaccine uptake IMO.
ETA Arguably, there is more data readily available for covid vaccination than most other medical decisions. Yet we still have a big chunk of the population dragging their feet. Do you think they’re doing so because they lack an appropriate way to understand their risk?
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
I think that's likely the point. If they have risk strata then some people will interpret that as "I don't need to get a vaccine." That's not a good thing if a) the vaccine is safe and b) vaccinating as many people as possible helps those who can't get it or who didn't mount a sufficient immune response and are not well prepared for an exposure.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Yep. And they’ll probably fail to adjust their risk assessment as the pandemic, and our understanding, evolves.
Also, as a general rule, patients trust their healthcare provider’s decision making, and don’t do a great job appraising personal risk.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Colin Powell dies from Covid while fully vaxxed, at age 84. Ugh.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Ugh. I'm sad for him and his family, obviously. Worried that this will further vaccine hesitancy for a prominent person, an African-American no less, to die after being vaccinated. But what has me the most upset at this news is that my best friend in the world, like Powell, has multiple myeloma. He appears to be in remission at the moment and was finally able to get his second shot last month -- and, as an otherwise healthy guy in his 40s, is obviously much lower risk than Powell -- but this is a reminder that people like him can never totally let their guard down.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
It's a cruel irony that many people's takeaway from this Powell news will be "What's the point of getting vaccinated?" instead of "It's even more important for me to get vaccinated to protect high-risk people like him."
beer 30
Footballguy
Was just going to comment on your first post but you summed it up nicely here. There is no nuance and unfortunately with a novel virus, you need to understand nuance. It's not black & white, some people are just going to die from this thing no matter what they do. As you said, that will be lost and more people will jump into the vaccine bad boat.
I just finished Rogan's podcast with Sanjay Gupta. I thought it was a refreshing dialogue between two people who are on opposite sides of this argument (to a degree). I wish there was more discussion like that but we politicized this early on and lost the ability for dialogue on the topic.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
An AA woman I went to HS with that is anti-vaccine and 100% government conspiracy (especially against AA), who is always posting news stories that are questionable, already just posted the tweet without comment . . . .
beer 30
Footballguy
Although the toothpaste is out of the tube, there is this:
"NB that Colin Powell had multiple myeloma, a cancer of white blood cells that produce antibodies. vaccination not going to take well at all with that condition"
https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1450090695725883394
"NB that Colin Powell had multiple myeloma, a cancer of white blood cells that produce antibodies. vaccination not going to take well at all with that condition"
https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1450090695725883394
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Florida school won’t allow vaxed students to go to school until 30 days after each dose.
Someone there seems to think that vaccinated people have the live virus in them that they can then pass to other people. Or, more likely IMO, they just are total anti-vaxxers knowingly making stuff up in order to make some sort of stupid point and make life difficult for people who get vaccinated.
Someone there seems to think that vaccinated people have the live virus in them that they can then pass to other people. Or, more likely IMO, they just are total anti-vaxxers knowingly making stuff up in order to make some sort of stupid point and make life difficult for people who get vaccinated.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
As soon as I saw this link, I knew it was about Centner. This school went viral (metaphorically, but probably literally as well) earlier this year when they announced they would fire teachers who did get vaxxed. Turns out it was founded by a crazy couple who was full-on anti-vax long before anyone had heard of Covid. This is par for the course
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skol asylum
Footballguy
So for pretty much the first time since this crap started one of us is sick. Twelvr year old started having stuffy nose and low grade fever on Saturday. Been about the same since. Says nose is a little better this morning. Temp staying at 99.9. Stayed home from school today. I'm guessing she caught something last week at school from someone who picked up something over fall break. I thought I might have been coming down with a little something too but now I'm thinking mine is just lack of sleep catching up to me.
At what point is a Covid test necessary? I called around hoping to get a rapid one somewhere but nothing was open that offered yesterday when I was looking. The PCR ones take a couple days for results right? If symptoms don't get worst just ride it out? Forgot to add we are all fully 2 dose pfizered.
At what point is a Covid test necessary? I called around hoping to get a rapid one somewhere but nothing was open that offered yesterday when I was looking. The PCR ones take a couple days for results right? If symptoms don't get worst just ride it out? Forgot to add we are all fully 2 dose pfizered.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
See if you can pick up BinaxNow home test kits. That's what a lot of the clinics around here are using for rapid tests. Our Walmart has them (when in stock) for $14 for a 2-test box. Several of the pharmacies carry them also, although a little more expensive than WM.
ETA: Hope everyone gets to feeling better.
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skol asylum
Footballguy
[icon]
Insoxicated
This. BinaxNOW Tests are certainly not PCR tests, but they're quite good at identifying established infection. If you are symptomatic and test negative, you can be reasonably sure you're negative. If you test positive you can be almost certain you're positive.
We have about a half dozen of the kits on hand at the house, use them as needed (and share with friends when needed).
Also, there are rapid PCR tests now. Not all clinics are set up for it, but many are.
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
seahawk 17
Footballguy
With two kids that have had Covid, I would say this is not it. It gets worse fast and does not remain the same. I think the fever would be higher also.
They are not vaccinated so there is that. Either way hope she gets to feeling better.
[icon]
Insoxicated
You mean this one, where the actual author of the study says that the Anti-Vaxx crowd is misinterpreting his paper?
The one that's getting dismantled pretty badly as "Hot Garbage" by the scientific community?
That one?
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
My wife did a rapid PCR test at Know15. Was not free though.
If anyone is sick with a fever and may be going out in public (like to school) they should get a covid test.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
There is a Harvard study that says getting the vaccine makes you contagious? This literally makes no sense at all.
Jobber
Footballguy
I just recovered from a mild case of COVID, where I received the J&J shot in April. I am now indestructible.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Fever 100.6 now but says nose is not as runny. Going to Walmart to try pick up a couple of these tests at lunch time.
The Commish
Footballguy
It says that only after going through the contortions of misrepresentation and misinterpretation by the anti-vax usual suspects. Anything to sow doubt and misinformation.
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