*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (17 Viewers)

[Doug B]

Are we plateauing too high for winter? (by Friendly Neighborhood Epidemiologist)

Specific to Louisiana:

Worldometers first furnished a 7-day-average case on March 20th, 2020. On that day, Louisiana averaged 299 new COVID cases per day detected over the previous seven days.

For four days in June 2021, the 7-day-average case numbers barely dipped below that 299 number, ranging between 294-297 from June 18-21. Shortly afterwards, the burgeoning Delta surge started inching up the case numbers.

Yesterday, November 14, 2021 in Louisiana ... the 7-day-average case number was 281 -- lowest since the beginning. Really hope that bodes well for us throughout the holiday season ... though people returning home to Louisiana to visit family will probably kick up the infections to some degree.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

The messaging on the boosters is typical. Confusing guidance, tons of grey areas.

Boosters should be authorized for anyone 18+ that received their second dose 6+ months ago. That's it. Stop making people figure out if they qualify or not. It's just causing confusion.

The Israeli data published in the New England Journal of Medicine on waning immunity and the subsequent data on booster efficacy is clear.

Stop ham handing the messages. It's one of the reasons people are skeptical of information.  

 

[FBG26]

I just need to vent.

We got a call from daycare late Sunday night saying they had presumptive positives (rapid tests) in both of my kids classes, so they closed those classes for Monday. Further info would come pending results of the PCR tests, which came back positive late this afternoon. Our kids can come back to daycare next Monday, or sooner if we can get a negative PCR test. It's damn near impossible to schedule a PCR test around here as everybody is booked two days out. So we can get them tested Wednesday and if we are super lucky maybe get them back to daycare Friday. But realistically it's Monday either way.

So this is now the second time this fall and third time this year that we're paying tuition to have our kids at home.  Not to mention all of the times our kids have been home while waiting a negative test because daycare requires a negative test if they get so much as the sniffles. My employer is super accommodating, but we're lucky in that regard. Not everybody else can work from home or basically take a random week off without notice. 

Daycare is just following states guidelines but this just sucks. Are we as society going to require quarantining for a week into perpetuity any time somebody is deemed a close contact? Just stick of it all. 

 

[Dragons]

I just need to vent.

We got a call from daycare late Sunday night saying they had presumptive positives (rapid tests) in both of my kids classes, so they closed those classes for Monday. Further info would come pending results of the PCR tests, which came back positive late this afternoon. Our kids can come back to daycare next Monday, or sooner if we can get a negative PCR test. It's damn near impossible to schedule a PCR test around here as everybody is booked two days out. So we can get them tested Wednesday and if we are super lucky maybe get them back to daycare Friday. But realistically it's Monday either way.

So this is now the second time this fall and third time this year that we're paying tuition to have our kids at home.  Not to mention all of the times our kids have been home while waiting a negative test because daycare requires a negative test if they get so much as the sniffles. My employer is super accommodating, but we're lucky in that regard. Not everybody else can work from home or basically take a random week off without notice. 

Daycare is just following states guidelines but this just sucks. Are we as society going to require quarantining for a week into perpetuity any time somebody is deemed a close contact? Just stick of it all. 

For preschool / daycare aged kids, let's hope they keep up the precautions until they're eligible to be vaccinated.

Then rip the band aid off.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

With what is happening in Europe, how are we not approving boosters for everyone and stating that you are only fully vaccinated once you are boosted?  We are about to have a very bad winter if the CDC and FDA don’t do this, like yesterday. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

With what is happening in Europe, how are we not approving boosters for everyone and stating that you are only fully vaccinated once you are boosted?  We are about to have a very bad winter if the CDC and FDA don’t do this, like yesterday. 

Well, you answered your own question with CDC and FDA included in the question.

 

[Doug B]

Daycare is just following states guidelines but this just sucks. Are we as society going to require quarantining for a week into perpetuity any time somebody is deemed a close contact? Just stick of it all.

I've been 100% all the way for taking everything extra serious with COVID ... but you're on to something. Society needs an off-ramp, even if we don't take that exit immediately. There has to be a reasonable way to countenance a post-COVID world.

 

[fatness]

The first anti-vax movement (smallpox) pushed fears of cow babies.

 

[fatness]

Are we as society going to require quarantining for a week into perpetuity any time somebody is deemed a close contact? Just stick of it all. 

Probably, unless the US does what part of Austria is doing --- lockdowns for unvaccinated people. 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I've been 100% all the way for taking everything extra serious with COVID ... but you're on to something. Society needs an off-ramp, even if we don't take that exit immediately. There has to be a reasonable way to countenance a post-COVID world.

Booster and kids fully vaxxed. Some people will have to take extra precautions still due to cancer, new borns, etc though and masks indoor public/crowded places may hang around or be a winter thing going forward. Boosters every 6-12months and then maybe less frequent eventually. 

 

[SwampDawg]

With boosters what seems to be the best recommendation, do you go with the same (Moderna or Pfizer) that you had the first time or do you alternate the booster to get a wider protection?

 

[worrierking]

It appears cases in Louisiana are no longer going down after the long late-summer surge.  A couple of regions are showing slight upticks in cases, which potentially could be part of a winter surge.  I'm hopeful it won't but to be prepared I'm considering boosters for worrierqueen and me.  We are both in our late 50s with no comorbidities.  We don't technically qualify right now.  

Any thoughts on getting boosters anyway?  Worrierqueen had Pfizer and got it very early, late February 2021 for her second shot.  I had Moderna, second shot in April.  I'm more concerned about her, due to her longer time since the shot and the difference in the two vaccines.  Should we go ahead and try or wait for a recommendation from Feds on boosters that would include us? 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

With boosters what seems to be the best recommendation, do you go with the same (Moderna or Pfizer) that you had the first time or do you alternate the booster to get a wider protection?

I would try to get Moderna, regardless, but the right answer is whichever one you can get soonest IMO.

 

[the moops]

Both my kids are home on quarantine. Again. This is the third time for my 10 year old, 2nd time for my 8 year old.  It is getting ridiculous.

They go to a Montessori school, and because the nature of the classroom (no desks, free roam of the classroom, lots of group work, etc.) they can't determine who really had close contact with one another. So once there is a positive case, the entire class has to quarantine for 5 days or whatever it is.

 

[belljr]

Travelling to Florida in December.

Decided to get the booster friday.   That will be my last shot for a long time regardless of whatever wave happens.

I was on the fence getting the booster.  I'm not shooting up every 6 months

 

[jobarules]

Both my kids are home on quarantine. Again. This is the third time for my 10 year old, 2nd time for my 8 year old.  It is getting ridiculous.

They go to a Montessori school, and because the nature of the classroom (no desks, free roam of the classroom, lots of group work, etc.) they can't determine who really had close contact with one another. So once there is a positive case, the entire class has to quarantine for 5 days or whatever it is.

Sorry to hear that. That is ridiculous

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Both my kids are home on quarantine. Again. This is the third time for my 10 year old, 2nd time for my 8 year old.  It is getting ridiculous.

They go to a Montessori school, and because the nature of the classroom (no desks, free roam of the classroom, lots of group work, etc.) they can't determine who really had close contact with one another. So once there is a positive case, the entire class has to quarantine for 5 days or whatever it is.

Honestly, "close contact" is an antiquated way of tracing at this point in the game.  This transmits via aerosol.  If they are in the same room, they are exposed.

Yet another failure of the CDC in not updating guidance based on what we have learned.  

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Travelling to Florida in December.

Decided to get the booster friday.   That will be my last shot for a long time regardless of whatever wave happens.

I was on the fence getting the booster.  I'm not shooting up every 6 months

Seems like a premature decision being unnecessarily made at this time.

 

[FBG26]

Both my kids are home on quarantine. Again. This is the third time for my 10 year old, 2nd time for my 8 year old.  It is getting ridiculous.

They go to a Montessori school, and because the nature of the classroom (no desks, free roam of the classroom, lots of group work, etc.) they can't determine who really had close contact with one another. So once there is a positive case, the entire class has to quarantine for 5 days or whatever it is.

Similar here (see post above). We can bring them back sooner if they get a negative test. I was able to schedule a test for my older one (4) but not the younger one since every testing center we tried to book was two or three days out. The older one ran and hid and refused the test once we got there because it hurts (I don't blame her). So now both kids are home all week again. I'm so ####### pissed. I was onboard with all of the masking, distancing, etc. But I'm really starting to sour on this. If an adult gets sick and isn't vaccinated, I'm starting to not care. And if a kid gets it, the chances of complications are so low that I'm starting to think we need to just accept the tiny risk like we do for so many other activities/illnesses. I'm ready to move on. So pissed. 

 

[jamny]

I've had the virus and the 2-shot Pfizer. I won't be getting a booster at this point.

 

[fatness]

1.129 is the daily COVID death rate in the US over the last 7 days. That's a rate of about 412,000 deaths a year.

 

[Jackstraw]

58% national vaccination rate. When its free and easy. 55 countries have done better than THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

If y'all want to get pissed that's the number to get pissed at. Not these poor school and daycare staff. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

Interesting discussion on the 2 new Covid treatment pills:

8 lingering questions about the new Covid pills from Merck and Pfizer

Interesting how analogous these are to HIV drugs. If they parallel HIV therapeutics, expect more side effects from the Merck drug. Either way, hopefully they can reduce the pill burden over time.

 

[Terminalxylem]

1.129 is the daily COVID death rate in the US over the last 7 days. That's a rate of about 412,000 deaths a year.

And I'll provide another reminder that our former number one cause of death, heart attacks, kills about 1000 people a day. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It appears cases in Louisiana are no longer going down after the long late-summer surge.  A couple of regions are showing slight upticks in cases, which potentially could be part of a winter surge.  I'm hopeful it won't but to be prepared I'm considering boosters for worrierqueen and me.  We are both in our late 50s with no comorbidities.  We don't technically qualify right now.  

Any thoughts on getting boosters anyway?  Worrierqueen had Pfizer and got it very early, late February 2021 for her second shot.  I had Moderna, second shot in April.  I'm more concerned about her, due to her longer time since the shot and the difference in the two vaccines.  Should we go ahead and try or wait for a recommendation from Feds on boosters that would include us? 

It's your health.  You could wait around for the FDA and CDC -- who have handled the pandemic so marvelously up until now -- to give you permission to get a shot that millions of us have already gotten.  It'll be too late to help out with whatever travel you planned during the holidays, but at least you'll have "followed the guidelines" so you'll have that to console you if you get sick.  It's just one more expired dose that some pharmacist has to throw away.

Or you could go ahead and get the booster that we all know is going to be opened up to all comers in a matter of weeks.  Some states are already ignoring the CDC and doing exactly that.  

Please do realize though that this is your decision.  Waiting for the FDA's permission is a decision.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

It's your health.  You could wait around for the FDA and CDC -- who have handled the pandemic so marvelously up until now -- to give you permission to get a shot that millions of us have already gotten.  It'll be too late to help out with whatever travel you planned during the holidays, but at least you'll have "followed the guidelines" so you'll have that to console you if you get sick.  It's just one more expired dose that some pharmacist has to throw away.

Or you could go ahead and get the booster that we all know is going to be opened up to all comers in a matter of weeks.  Some states are already ignoring the CDC and doing exactly that.  

Please do realize though that this is your decision.  Waiting for the FDA's permission is a decision.

The above is exactly why I didn’t feel any guilt or remorse about getting a booster.  Mrs APK had to dig for some outlandish phrasing that made her feel like she was following the rules - not me.  Very clear the CDC has failed us multiple times.  I’m following the science, not the bureaucracy.

 

[AAABatteries]

The above is exactly why I didn’t feel any guilt or remorse about getting a booster.  Mrs APK had to dig for some outlandish phrasing that made her feel like she was following the rules - not me.  Very clear the CDC has failed us multiple times.  I’m following the science, not the bureaucracy.

Considering the fact that there were tons of open appointment times and our numbers are so low for getting just a single shot I didn’t think twice about getting mine either.  Although I think I was close on BMI, don’t recall now if it was just below or above the cutoff.  

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Ireland is 89% "vaccinated" but reinstalling certain curfews.  But they have only started boosters for those over 60 years old.  There needs to be a total re-thinking and communication over what vaccination is. 

There is not some vast vaccine shortage.  And we know that you can mix and match Pfizer and Moderna.  EVERYone needs approved for their third shot.  NOW.

THIS IS A THREE (3) SHOT REGIMENT -- NOT AN OPTIONAL BOOSTER.  You ARE NOT VACCINATED if you did not get the third shot (or second shot via Pfizer/Moderna if you got JJ more than 2 months ago).

This needs yelled from the rooftops and beamed to every screen in the world.  What the hell are the CDC and these European countries thinking?? 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

58% national vaccination rate. When its free and easy. 55 countries have done better than THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

If y'all want to get pissed that's the number to get pissed at. Not these poor school and daycare staff. 

It’s actually 70% of adults fully vaccinated.   And 68% of the total population now has at least one shot.   
 

We always knew that once this got politicized, about 20-30% of the population wouldn’t get vaccinated.  Even though the vaccines were developed under the watch of “their guy.”  (Which is a special level of irrationality and borderline stupidity)

What is becoming similarly disturbing to me is how few people are getting a booster.  I talk to people about vaccination from time to time, and a whole lotta fairly knowledgeable people don’t seem aware of the “math” or “science” behind why a booster is needed.  We are just doing such a terrible job in this country right now, still, on Covid.   The CDC really sucks.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Ireland is 89% "vaccinated" but reinstalling certain curfews.  But they have only started boosters for those over 60 years old.  There needs to be a total re-thinking and communication over what vaccination is. 

There is not some vast vaccine shortage.  And we know that you can mix and match Pfizer and Moderna.  EVERYone needs approved for their third shot.  NOW.

THIS IS A THREE (3) SHOT REGIMENT -- NOT AN OPTIONAL BOOSTER.  You ARE NOT VACCINATED if you did not get the third shot (or second shot via Pfizer/Moderna if you got JJ more than 2 months ago).

This needs yelled from the rooftops and beamed to every screen in the world.  What the hell are the CDC and these European countries thinking?? 

Spot on.  

 

[jobarules]

Ireland is 89% "vaccinated" but reinstalling certain curfews. 

Its hard to convince people to get vaccinated when #### like this is happening.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Its hard to convince people to get vaccinated when #### like this is happening.

Well, people will just have to toughen up then.  When did we become such pansies?

 

[gianmarco]

Well, people will just have to toughen up then.  When did we become such pansies?

It's hard to get people to take blood pressure medication every day when they still need to diet and exercise and could still die from a heart attack at any moment.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

It's hard to get people to take blood pressure medication every day when they still need to diet and exercise and could still die from a heart attack at any moment.

People are remarkably rigid

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Its hard to convince people to get vaccinated when #### like this is happening.

Did you read the rest of my post?

The issue is that this is not a two-shot vaccination.  So they are not 89% vaccinated.  Numerous vaccines work this way, and require boosters in life -- or in the case of the flu a new yearly formula (which is what this will potentially be).

Ireland, Germany, and all kinds of other countries whose populations are 80%+ "vaccinated" are seeing pandemic high levels of infection, as they hit winter. 

Two things are true:  The vaccine is a 3-shot regiment currently (and will require boosters) AND COVID-19 is seasonal in nature (just like every other coronavirus in the world).

WHY IS THIS SO HARD FOR CDC, GOVERNMENTS, AND PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND??????

 

[fatness]

Its hard to convince people to get vaccinated when #### like this is happening.

#### like immunity waning over time? Viruses mutating?

 

[jobarules]

Did you read the rest of my post?

The issue is that this is not a two-shot vaccination.  So they are not 89% vaccinated.  Numerous vaccines work this way, and require boosters in life -- or in the case of the flu a new yearly formula (which is what this will potentially be).

Ireland, Germany, and all kinds of other countries whose populations are 80%+ "vaccinated" are seeing pandemic high levels of infection, as they hit winter. 

Two things are true:  The vaccine is a 3-shot regiment currently (and will require boosters) AND COVID-19 is seasonal in nature (just like every other coronavirus in the world).

WHY IS THIS SO HARD FOR CDC, GOVERNMENTS, AND PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND??????

#### like immunity waning over time? Viruses mutating?

Yes. Only 50% of our population gets a flu shot.

 

[beer 30]

58% national vaccination rate. When its free and easy. 55 countries have done better than THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

If y'all want to get pissed that's the number to get pissed at. Not these poor school and daycare staff. 

My company had a COVID update call yesterday. Was disappointed in the numbers, less than 40% of our entire 15,000 person workforce is vaccinated and 1700 refuse to even tell whether they've had a shot or not. We've also had 19 deaths due to COVID since the virus hit. In our world, if there is 1 death due to equipment failure or operator error we have something akin to an NTSB investigation to ascertain the issue, address it & provide a solution all within a few days of the event. 19 and we've done nothing other than encourage people get vaccinated because (and this is me speculating but I know I'm not far off the mark) we're afraid we'd lose a significant portion of our workforce if we mandated it. What a ####ty position we're in.

Well, people will just have to toughen up then.  When did we become such pansies?

Sometime around the 90's, I blame Grunge. 

 

[Osaurus]

People are remarkably rigid

You're putting it very nicely

 

[AAABatteries]

My company had a COVID update call yesterday. Was disappointed in the numbers, less than 40% of our entire 15,000 person workforce is vaccinated and 1700 refuse to even tell whether they've had a shot or not. We've also had 19 deaths due to COVID since the virus hit. In our world, if there is 1 death due to equipment failure or operator error we have something akin to an NTSB investigation to ascertain the issue, address it & provide a solution all within a few days of the event. 19 and we've done nothing other than encourage people get vaccinated because (and this is me speculating but I know I'm not far off the mark) we're afraid we'd lose a significant portion of our workforce if we mandated it. What a ####ty position we're in.

Sometime around the 90's, I blame Grunge. 

 

 

[massraider]

My company had a COVID update call yesterday. Was disappointed in the numbers, less than 40% of our entire 15,000 person workforce is vaccinated and 1700 refuse to even tell whether they've had a shot or not. We've also had 19 deaths due to COVID since the virus hit. In our world, if there is 1 death due to equipment failure or operator error we have something akin to an NTSB investigation to ascertain the issue, address it & provide a solution all within a few days of the event. 19 and we've done nothing other than encourage people get vaccinated because (and this is me speculating but I know I'm not far off the mark) we're afraid we'd lose a significant portion of our workforce if we mandated it. What a ####ty position we're in.

Bummer man

 

[Jackstraw]

My company had a COVID update call yesterday. Was disappointed in the numbers, less than 40% of our entire 15,000 person workforce is vaccinated and 1700 refuse to even tell whether they've had a shot or not. We've also had 19 deaths due to COVID since the virus hit. In our world, if there is 1 death due to equipment failure or operator error we have something akin to an NTSB investigation to ascertain the issue, address it & provide a solution all within a few days of the event. 19 and we've done nothing other than encourage people get vaccinated because (and this is me speculating but I know I'm not far off the mark) we're afraid we'd lose a significant portion of our workforce if we mandated it. What a ####ty position we're in.

Sometime around the 90's, I blame Grunge. 

Seems like when the rubber hits the road on Mandates a large percentage go vaccine. NY City PD threatened mass resignations but it didn;t really materialize. 

 

[Don Quixote]

The above is exactly why I didn’t feel any guilt or remorse about getting a booster.  Mrs APK had to dig for some outlandish phrasing that made her feel like she was following the rules - not me.  Very clear the CDC has failed us multiple times.  I’m following the science, not the bureaucracy.

Same here -- I just passed the 6 month date since my second shot, and scheduled a booster for tomorrow. City gave me the appointment without my needing to say "yes" to either comorbidity or high-risk job. They had around 60 appointments available for tomorrow -- don't feel like I'm stealing one from anyone.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

White House COVID task force speaking now.

Fauci reiterates that we need to be stressing importance of vaccines preventing symptomatic disease, not just hospitalization/death. 

Then the head of the CDC gives a very rude/abrupt answer that "fully vaccinated is defined as two shots of moderna or pfizer and one shot of J&J, thank you."  She is a disaster.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

White House COVID task force speaking now.

Fauci reiterates that we need to be stressing importance of vaccines preventing symptomatic disease, not just hospitalization/death. 

Then the head of the CDC gives a very rude/abrupt answer that "fully vaccinated is defined as two shots of moderna or pfizer and one shot of J&J, thank you."  She is a disaster.

Ugh.  And this is the problem.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Ugh.  And this is the problem.

This winter is going to end up somehow being as bad or worse than last winter.  You will have people walking around doing whatever, hosting large family gatherings and events, all thinking they are protected because of the false definition of fully vaccinated right now.  

Sadly, this is all still political.  We aren't boosting everyone yet, not because of the data, but because of the WHO and political correctness when it comes to wealthy nations on their third shot versus poor countries at 2% vaccinated.  

Such a huge mistake and disaster.

 

[The Commish]

Both my kids are home on quarantine. Again. This is the third time for my 10 year old, 2nd time for my 8 year old.  It is getting ridiculous.

They go to a Montessori school, and because the nature of the classroom (no desks, free roam of the classroom, lots of group work, etc.) they can't determine who really had close contact with one another. So once there is a positive case, the entire class has to quarantine for 5 days or whatever it is.

I can relate.  Things have been more unstable for my kids this year than they ever were at home.  They're doing the best they can, but it's absurd.

 

[The Commish]

Travelling to Florida in December.

Decided to get the booster friday.   That will be my last shot for a long time regardless of whatever wave happens.

I was on the fence getting the booster.  I'm not shooting up every 6 months

You might want to get a couple if you're headed this way GB   

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I am starting to believe that if the virus hit in 2018 or 2019, a non-election year and Scott Gotlieb was still in charge of the FDA, that this whole thing -- the virus, masking, vaccines, etc. would not have been anywhere close to as politicized and we would have been out of this in a much quicker timeframe.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

This winter is going to end up somehow being as bad or worse than last winter.  You will have people walking around doing whatever, hosting large family gatherings and events, all thinking they are protected because of the false definition of fully vaccinated right now.  

Sadly, this is all still political.  We aren't boosting everyone yet, not because of the data, but because of the WHO and political correctness when it comes to wealthy nations on their third shot versus poor countries at 2% vaccinated.  

Such a huge mistake and disaster.

And this is why I’m telling everyone close to me (and anyone who will listen) that they need to get boosted.