The same teacher unions begging to go remote would be #####ing about losing their summer vacations.
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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (18 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
- Start date
- Status
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
not breaking news by any means, but... America’s COVID Rules Are a Dumpster Fire
(includes a guest expert appearance by YLE!)
Terrible. How do we fix our overall response and preparedness for the next one, which could be worse? We are still reacting instead of thinking ahead. We had a testing shortage in 2020 and we have another one now -- HOW? Other countries have been supplying at home tests for two years -- our program, which is likely inadequate and difficult to utilize, is coming way too late -- WHY?
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I don't know. But in the North East, if you have more snow days than were allotted for in the school year calendar, then days are added to the end of the year.
also keep in mind that an exceptionally minor cold for everyone, even some vaccinated who may have other health conditions
also also keep in mind that a large percentage of exceptionally mild cases that may be mild compared to Delta, but bad enough to require medical treatment, is still a problem, even if you personally only had a sniffle
I assume he meant the vaccine otherwise 2100 people that bit the dust yesterday would like to know about this treatment.
I think both can be true. Hospitals are overwhelmed because so much staff is out sick (even if they just have colds or are asymptomatic) for 5 days. Combine that with less nurses due to vaccine mandates. Combine that with typical winter hospital visits (which we didnt have last year due to mitigation). Combine that with the higher infection rate.
belljr
Footballguy
So my daughter is 16 and boosted. Got a text yesterday that her teammate tested positive. The only reason the teammate even got a test was because she found out she was a close contact. Teammate has/haves no symptoms. My daughter was considered "close" to her for about 3 minutes with masks on. Was a little "jarring" at first but not too worried about it. Going to keep an eye on daughter but not quarantining or anything. She always wears a mask now when near people and that's the current recommendation. First person "we know" that tested positive
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Yep - it's on each district and private school to decision make based on their own unique circumstances. It's on the administration, faculty, staff, parents, etc to prepare for multiple different scenarios that are subject to change day-to-day. 'Out sick' is obviously not a new thing, but current levels are.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Personal risk vs. systemic risk.
If you're fully vaccinated (boosted), covid exists somewhere on the cold-flu spectrum. It's nothing to worry about at the individual level. But a large number of people aren't fully vaccinated, and omicron is really contagious. So while people like us are catching omicron and feeling under the weather while we watch Netflix and sip our medicinal whisky, hospitals are full with people who didn't get vaccinated. It's still an important social problem even if it's no longer directly affects you.
And of course even if covid were no worse the flu for everyone, the fact that a ton of people are getting it all at once is causing staffing and supply shortages. I don't see that as a particularly big deal right now -- supply chains have been messed up for two years so what's another few weeks -- but that's because I'm assuming it's a short run thing. We'll see I guess.
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Doug B
Footballguy
For new readers to this thread, or anyone who just has missed the reference:Oh.
Your Local Epidemiologist (often abbreviated here to 'YLE') is the name of Dr. Katelyn Jetelina's Substack blog. Dr. Jetelina is a real-life epidemiologist and -- as it happens -- one of us FBGs grew up with her (it's in this thread, way back).
Anyway, she's been getting a respectable amount of attention by science writers in recent months. The Atlantic article is but one example.
Doug B
Footballguy
This has kind of already been done locally for Hurricane Ida. Local school districts already have "hurricane days" built into the schedule -- that why our K-12 schools start in early August and still end in late May.
This school year, Ida has already chewed up about 3 weeks for students. Two more weeks could be done, but something would have to give -- longer school days, two weeks added at the end, something.
playin4beer
Footballguy
Two pfizer shots, AND the booster... AND a flu shot...
Started coughing on Sunday so I took a home rapid test.... +positive
Felt a little under the weather Monday and Tuesday.. better Wednesday and back to normal yesterday...
Started coughing on Sunday so I took a home rapid test.... +positive
Felt a little under the weather Monday and Tuesday.. better Wednesday and back to normal yesterday...
belljr
Footballguy
How sure are we about these home tests after boosters? I'm not trying to throw out any wild conspiracies, I'm generally curious if there has been any studies of reliability of the home tests pre vaccine.....vaccine......boosted
Eta: hope you get through ok
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Doug B
Footballguy
Logically, I don't see how vaccination status affects test reliability. Either viral material is present in the sample in sufficient quantities to be measured, or it's not.
Home antigen tests will typically not detect an asymptomatic infection, but that's true independent of vaccination status. Same vein: if you're symptomatic, the home tests are much more accurate ... and again, this is independent of vaccination status.
Doug B
Footballguy
It's only that the Moderna shots deliver a larger dose than the Pfizer ones, not that any one mRNA variety is better suited to variants. So with Moderna, you get a larger production of antibodies that take longer to trail off. But it's not a night-and-day difference from Pfizer.
belljr
Footballguy
I mean I'm not 100% up on everything and by no means understand everything as well as others I was just curious with the elevated levels after the booster if that could throw off tests
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Woke up with a very sore throat today which I think is due to allergies acting up (this happens a couple times a year when I am not taking allergy meds enough and the temp changes), but going to just shut everything down regardless. Unfortunately this means not going with my wife to her last ultrasound today :(
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Jackstraw
Footballguy
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
lucira has at home PCRs. they are pricey but worth it to get kids back in school quicker. i bought 3 just for these situations. I think insurance will reimburse.
beer 30
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I returned to the office in June 2020. Been there ever since.
We should be trying very hard to avoid shutdowns. In some cases, staffing shortages mean that some firms are going to be on spotty ground for a few weeks. But some of these -- like the Chicago schools, for instance -- are really inexcusable.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/warzone-workplace
Commenter on TPM:
In your recent post about Covid and school closures, I think you get something very right when you talk about the PhD and elite scolds demanding schools remain open no-matter-what. There is one element in all of this that I think you do not fully appreciate—the anger and legitimate fear that teachers have been living with for the entirety of the pandemic.
I am a college teacher, my partner teaches high school, my friends teach at every level of the educational system. During the pandemic, many have retired early or quit, many of those who have stayed have only done so because they are too young to retire and too old to do something else. Just to be clear, the kids are alright. Almost all teachers love teaching–given how ####ty the job is, why else would we do it?
The problems with teaching are also the same as they’ve always been–the parents, the school board, the local and state governments. We get it, they pay us ####, dictate idiotic curriculum and blame us when their kids grow up to be queer/communist/atheists—same as it ever was. What is new is that we are now being asked—actually not even asked—told that we must be heroes.
Everyone talks about how schools are a young population, so schools are safer than most other institutions. Even you wrote something like that in a recent tweet.
“And despite the totally out of control spread of omicron now ripping through schools I think it makes sense to keep them open because of the mix of generally mild outcomes for kids and the availability of vaccines.”
What the ####, am I chopped liver to you? From a teacher’s perspective, school is a place where you spend 8 hours in poorly ventilated, densely packed rooms with the least vaccinated people in America (the young). Last semester I taught a class with 150 people in a subterranean room—no mask mandate, no vaccine mandate, voluntary testing if someone had symptoms.
You wrote in your post today…
“We shifted back to in-person instruction once vaccines were widely deployed, backstopping the great majority of the people from bad outcomes from COVID infections. By the fall of 2021 we also collectively had much more knowledge about COVID, how to operate schools in relative safety with a mix of masking, ventilation and testing.”
While we may know about masking, ventilation, testing and vaccination—in many of the classrooms in this nation we are not requiring masking, ventilation, testing or vaccination. All of this discussion of masking, ventilation, testing and vaccination is little more than performative ethical posturing of the ‘think of the poor children’ crowd. As a teacher, I don’t care about the posturing. I care about what is happening in the room in front of me. This is a job safety issue, not a political issue. In most of the country masks and vaccines are not required. As for ventilation, I expect to see that fixed right after states and municipalities deal with the endemic asbestos and black mold problem that pervades schools across the nation.
So, I am furious, almost all the teachers I know are furious. I love teaching, but that doesn’t mean I want to risk my life to do so. At a minimum, I expect that all students be required to be masked and vaccinated to attend in person. Short of that, I’m gonna go remote whenever the case counts start going up. #### anyone who demands otherwise. #### ‘em twice if they tell me how much they respect teachers while the refuse enact even the most basic safety protocols that would make our jobs safer.
Commenter on TPM:
In your recent post about Covid and school closures, I think you get something very right when you talk about the PhD and elite scolds demanding schools remain open no-matter-what. There is one element in all of this that I think you do not fully appreciate—the anger and legitimate fear that teachers have been living with for the entirety of the pandemic.
I am a college teacher, my partner teaches high school, my friends teach at every level of the educational system. During the pandemic, many have retired early or quit, many of those who have stayed have only done so because they are too young to retire and too old to do something else. Just to be clear, the kids are alright. Almost all teachers love teaching–given how ####ty the job is, why else would we do it?
The problems with teaching are also the same as they’ve always been–the parents, the school board, the local and state governments. We get it, they pay us ####, dictate idiotic curriculum and blame us when their kids grow up to be queer/communist/atheists—same as it ever was. What is new is that we are now being asked—actually not even asked—told that we must be heroes.
Everyone talks about how schools are a young population, so schools are safer than most other institutions. Even you wrote something like that in a recent tweet.
“And despite the totally out of control spread of omicron now ripping through schools I think it makes sense to keep them open because of the mix of generally mild outcomes for kids and the availability of vaccines.”
What the ####, am I chopped liver to you? From a teacher’s perspective, school is a place where you spend 8 hours in poorly ventilated, densely packed rooms with the least vaccinated people in America (the young). Last semester I taught a class with 150 people in a subterranean room—no mask mandate, no vaccine mandate, voluntary testing if someone had symptoms.
You wrote in your post today…
“We shifted back to in-person instruction once vaccines were widely deployed, backstopping the great majority of the people from bad outcomes from COVID infections. By the fall of 2021 we also collectively had much more knowledge about COVID, how to operate schools in relative safety with a mix of masking, ventilation and testing.”
While we may know about masking, ventilation, testing and vaccination—in many of the classrooms in this nation we are not requiring masking, ventilation, testing or vaccination. All of this discussion of masking, ventilation, testing and vaccination is little more than performative ethical posturing of the ‘think of the poor children’ crowd. As a teacher, I don’t care about the posturing. I care about what is happening in the room in front of me. This is a job safety issue, not a political issue. In most of the country masks and vaccines are not required. As for ventilation, I expect to see that fixed right after states and municipalities deal with the endemic asbestos and black mold problem that pervades schools across the nation.
So, I am furious, almost all the teachers I know are furious. I love teaching, but that doesn’t mean I want to risk my life to do so. At a minimum, I expect that all students be required to be masked and vaccinated to attend in person. Short of that, I’m gonna go remote whenever the case counts start going up. #### anyone who demands otherwise. #### ‘em twice if they tell me how much they respect teachers while the refuse enact even the most basic safety protocols that would make our jobs safer.
Battersbox
Footballguy
None of this person's comments address the fact that they are are minimal risk of a severe outcome if they do their job while vaccinated. Pure melodrama. And if they are that worried, yes they should simply quit.
The two are nearly identical. The reason why Moderna was better with the initial 2-dose regimen was because you got way more of the vaccine (200 micrograms vs. 60), and there was an extra week between doses (4 weeks vs. 3). With the booster being a single shot the time isn't a factor, and the Moderna booster is 1/2 the initial dose so it's 50 micrograms vs. 30 now.
All else equal as is in your case I'd still go with Moderna (that's what I picked), but I wouldn't go out of my way or put it off or anything, both are great.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Ventilation is a huge issue, and I'm not sure why more schools and teachers don't make a class project out of building a Corsi-Rosenthal box? Seems like an awesome way to teach engineering and help slow airborne transmission. I'm sure most people have an old box fan they could donate. The only real cost is the filters and tape. I haven't heard of any classes in my kids HS do this and haven't heard about any schools doing it in our area, but maybe they are in other communities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEn2xzlvrdo
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Jackstraw
Footballguy
One could say the same about mandating vaccines. You'll be fine. If you are all that worried simply quit.
Battersbox
Footballguy
If they are that worried, they can wear a superior mask. But yeah, they might get the disease at work or anywhere else.
And yes, likely they'll be fine. Schooling is important, extremely important, even if this teacher doesn't think so.
Battersbox
Footballguy
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I see we've reached the "copying and pasting stuff I found in the comments section" phase of the thread.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Yea...it's just the flu. I had covid more than a year ago and I still don't have my full taste or smell back.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
BTW, the serious answer to this is no. Teachers were moved up toward the front of the line when we were rolling out vaccines. I know it varied from state to state, but in my area teachers were vaccinated at the same time as people with underlying risk factors. That was after health care workers and after people who work in congregate living facilities, but ahead of the general public. I fully supported that (full disclosure: I benefited from that) and it seemed like a good public policy decision. I don't recall anybody being opposed to moving teachers ahead of Joe Office Worker.
We rightly made it a priority to get teachers vaccinated because we as a society value in-person schooling. So quit whining and do your job.
Gawain
Footballguy
To me this overlooks the Tragedy of the Commons impact to the health care system.
Folks are dying of non-Covid issues because the health system is so backed up with Covid cases.
While my personal risk may not warrant any change in my actions from 2019, there is a collective risk that someone in a car accident won't get saved. That someone will delay being tested for cancer. That a quality of life operation will be delayed for months.
And, invariably, for some whose personal level of risk is low, they will roll double zero and suffer an accident or illness where quality of care is significantly impacted by the current state of health care.
This person doesnt think vaccines work? So we should all be scared to return to normalcy because of this person's irrational fears?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
No, you're definitely right. It's basically a "tragedy of the commons" situation -- that was I was trying to get at by talking about system-level risk vs. individual risk. You're thinking about it correctly.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
It is true that many schools are very poorly ventilated. What is really annoying is seeing schools/districts that took federal money from the COVID relief packages, spending the funds on football fields and the like, instead of ventilation, air purifiers, masks, testing etc.
50% of recent NYC COVID hospitalizations involved patients admitted for non-COVID reasons.
https://www.wivb.com/news/new-york/watch-live-gov-hochul-announces-booster-mandate-for-healthcare-workers/
https://www.wivb.com/news/new-york/watch-live-gov-hochul-announces-booster-mandate-for-healthcare-workers/
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culdeus
Footballguy
18 states have still yet to record a school age death from COVID. Prior to vaccine rollout a total of 51 we're recorded nationwide and a majority were in long term care. Not even sure there has been one since that had even one dose. Haven't located one yet.
Fields and recreation facilities are far more valuable. They made the right call.
Yeah, sounds about right. I'm in Ontario. Not enough Rapid tests to go around, so... don't test.
They've tried handing some out at malls and the Liquor store (seriously!) and people have lined up for hours only to have them gone in minutes. It's a sh!tshow.
We've gone back to a "stage 2" with restrictions as they were back in Spring 2021. No dine-in, no gyms, no theatres, etc.
Public and private schools back to online only until end of January at least.
Number started going up here significantly in late December.
Our gov't is a joke #dontbanme
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dhockster
Footballguy
Two points:
First, the Covid relief monies appropriated by the Government for education I assume were meant to be spent on Covid relief in the schools. So I think that these funds should be spent on what they were intended for. You could argue the Schools didn't need all that money for covid relief if they are not spending it on Covid relief, but that is an argument against the legislation not what the money is spent on.
Second, to the commenters point that we are asking the Teacher's to be hero's without the appropriate equipment/protection/facilities, I think the commenter is correct. If we feel keeping kids in school is a priority, and thus put the teachers at more risk of getting Covid, we should equip them with the tools necessary to minimize their risk, especially when money has been allocated to do just that.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
The deep dive into the hospitalization data and the interview with the head of the NY Presbyterian hospital system was helpful. Not sure if you saw the governor's press conference, but she's got a better grasp on the numbers than she appeared to just a few weeks ago. It was a good update.
Next they should start breaking these numbers out: Admitted for COVID, in the ICU because of COVID, intubated because of COVID.
The other item the head of the hospital system mentioned was vaccine status. He said very few, if any, patients were boosted. Most people were unvaxxed, some twice vaxxed, but hardly any patients in the hospital system were boosted.
Hospital data from Miami-Dade shows the same finding, very few admissions among boosted population compared to non-boosted: Hospitalizations by vaccine status: Unvaccinated vs. Vaccinated vs. Vaccinated with Booster (see slide 25)
- Status
