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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (21 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
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Judge Smails
Footballguy
I can’t believe this is still in question. How about 54 billion? Hospitals are getting destroyed from every side. Revenues in the ####ter, costs going up with labor. Try hiring nurses right now
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/covid-19-will-push-hospital-losses-to-54b-this-year-report-estimates.html
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Except I can’t catch cancer from the smoker, or obesity from the overweight. Those people only hurt themselves and the overall economy. Not the same with unvaxxed
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
baymen
Footballguy
I don't know much about that article, but in the public equity sphere, hospital companies have been doing great. Tenet Health went from just over $300 million in net income in 2019 but in 2020 and 2021 profits are over a billion in each year. HCA went from $3.7 billion in net profits in 2019 to close to $6 billion this year. Data from my Bloomberg Terminal. Has this analysis been peer-reviewed?
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
We have for profit healthcare. Prior to this they were shutting down IC care units because they are the least profitable.
I have much love for you brother, but I will prove you wrong and do the work if you will send me 2500 worth of PS5 stuff. I have not always been right in this thread. But I have never changed my position and have not moved goal posts. I have been more right than most.
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ZADO
Footballguy
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Hah. Much love amigo. Always up for a healthy debate. As I’ve said before there are only 2 real for profit health systems out there. HCA and to a much smaller degree Tenet. Fraction of US healthcare overall. 6,090 hospitals in the US. 1,233 are for profit. They have done better with brutal patient/staff ratios. Also quick with layoffs. Becker’s is one of the most trusted sources in healthcare. I wouldn’t question their numbers. I’m not reading articles to come up with my stance. I’ve been in healthcare my entire career. 30+ years. Haven’t moved my goal posts either.
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Judge Smails
Footballguy
What is your overall point? That the healthcare industry is doing great and benefitting from COVID?
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
You give great info. I will dig into it. It doesn't match with what I think I know. But I can obviously can be wrong and probably am. But I will come back Monday with I find. Take care.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
He is correct. I just read something corroborating what he said yesterday. I will try to find that and post it for you.
Let me clarify, I don’t think masks should be here forever. It’s the immediate knee jerk reaction that we need to start looking to remove masks in schools just because it’s starting to look like we’re getting over this wave. It feels like we’ve done this 4 or 5 times already - get over a wave and then overreact to improving conditions and create the conditions for another bad wave.belljr said:But the Ro has matched the case load and rates. During delta the Ro accelerated and the case go up .... The Ro would plateau along with everything else. The fact that its lowest that its ever been here is a great indicator that the spread is slowing down. Of course its rapidly decreasing thats a good thing. In the past it was a slow decline that mirrored the surge.
Not sure why you think the spread is the lowest it has ever been since covid has been tracked is seen as great indicator it is slowing down. We are well past our plateau here - for now
As far as mask last summer the cdc said we didnt need them indoor.If we get to those numbers again why not
I’m not against removing mask mandates or other restrictions when it’s justified but maybe we should wait until the hospitals are out of crisis protocols.
What I want to see before jumping too far away from restrictions is how protective the immunity is from Omicron infections. Will it protect against delta if it makes a comeback? How about the next mutation? There’s been some discussion that the immunity may not be significant and be closer to get from the cold virus and there are reports of second Omicron infections in the UK. This could be the end but there’s still a lot that needs to be learned first. We all want this to be over. We all want the restrictions to go away but doing it just to do it will be a mistake.
belljr
Footballguy
Our hospitals are at 47% capacity and I never said masks are going away. I said it could happen in a month or two. But hoping things keep going down and the Ro is one major factor
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[scooter]
Footballguy
I have no idea what you are tip-toe-ing around here, but if your endgame is some variation on "BIG HEALTHCARE DOESN'T WANT TO CURE COVID!!!111" then all I can do (aside from shake my head) is point out that virtually every free country with socialized medicine has also been unable to stop COVID.
Well in ‘not over’ news, our oldest daughter just tested positive. We were only testing because we’re about to fly to Texas to see my wife’s family with at least one high risk family member. She was the only member of the family who we don’t think got COVID a couple weeks ago. None of us tested positive then but the exposure and symptoms make it safe to assume we were.
The tests were very dark lines and appeared early in the test, so very unlikely to be a false positive. She’s already sleeping and doesn’t know but it’s going to crush her. They’ve been looking forward to the trip for awhile to celebrate Chinese New Year and my wife really needed it too. We’re trying to decide if we all stay home or just me and her. As much as my wife doesn’t want cancel, we need to cancel. It’s not worth the risk to her mom. I am so sick of this virus.
The tests were very dark lines and appeared early in the test, so very unlikely to be a false positive. She’s already sleeping and doesn’t know but it’s going to crush her. They’ve been looking forward to the trip for awhile to celebrate Chinese New Year and my wife really needed it too. We’re trying to decide if we all stay home or just me and her. As much as my wife doesn’t want cancel, we need to cancel. It’s not worth the risk to her mom. I am so sick of this virus.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Not sure what this means, but it wouldn’t be shocking if rich businesspeople made money during the pandemic, or any time really. Too bad that $ doesn’t translate to improved patient care, or working conditions/pay for the worker bees.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Covid or not, 47% is unusually low for medium to large hospital during winter. Although I don’t always check, I can’t remember being much below 90% at this time of year, ever. I also don’t recall being sub 50%, even during slow season.
Can you link your data source?
Dezbelief
Footballguy
If you think the rest of the family had covid already let your wife and other kid(s) go. If they are symptom free and testing negative they shouldn't be contagious. Maybe call the most at risk relative and ask them their opinion. It's not an easy place to be in, good luck with your decision and I hope your daughter feels better soon. Happy New Year!
James Daulton
Footballguy
Judge is 100% correct. Our nursing staff is typically 5-10% agency. Now it's 25%. And we're paying 3x what we typically do for agency nurses. Our modest 2.5% margin has turned into a -4% margin.
I'm telling you folks, Covid and the anti-vaxxers have harmed healthcare to the extent that it will take years to recover.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
That sucks. However, I am going to submit that "My kid got sick and it messed up our family vacation" is a routine life event.
Yeah this is where we’re at right now. Everyone else is negative so deciding if they go or we postpone the trip a few weeks. The at-risk part of the family left it up to me.
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
Seriously
That's happened to everyone with kids multiple times in their lives before covid.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
@IvanKaramazov apparently works for the GAO. Because the GAO absolutely destroyed HHS’s handling of COVID.
The gist of their report is that HHS has been negligent for over 10 years in preparing to handle major health crisis and that many of the significant failures in dealing with COVID may have been preventable. HHS is still ignoring many many suggestions that the GAO has made including the 2020 recommendation to coordinate with FEMA to help with supply chain shortages, a January 2021 recommendation to plan for widespread testing that has still been largely ignored, and a recommendation to create a roadmap for spending the $484B in Covid funds they were given (half of which is still unspent).
Since 2007, GAO has given HHS 117 recommendations to improve leadership, operations, communication, data collection, etc, and to date, HHS has ignored 72 of them.
This is total incompetence at the top of our governmental health system and it’s no wonder this thing has been a mess.
Maybe this should be in the political forums, but honestly, with how screwed up our healthcare system is, I’ve come around on the idea of government run healthcare. But seeing JUST HOW BAD our government is at running the healthcare pieces it runs, if doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in me that they wouldn’t make a disaster if that too.
The gist of their report is that HHS has been negligent for over 10 years in preparing to handle major health crisis and that many of the significant failures in dealing with COVID may have been preventable. HHS is still ignoring many many suggestions that the GAO has made including the 2020 recommendation to coordinate with FEMA to help with supply chain shortages, a January 2021 recommendation to plan for widespread testing that has still been largely ignored, and a recommendation to create a roadmap for spending the $484B in Covid funds they were given (half of which is still unspent).
Since 2007, GAO has given HHS 117 recommendations to improve leadership, operations, communication, data collection, etc, and to date, HHS has ignored 72 of them.
This is total incompetence at the top of our governmental health system and it’s no wonder this thing has been a mess.
Maybe this should be in the political forums, but honestly, with how screwed up our healthcare system is, I’ve come around on the idea of government run healthcare. But seeing JUST HOW BAD our government is at running the healthcare pieces it runs, if doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in me that they wouldn’t make a disaster if that too.
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
If it makes you feel better, your assumptions about hospitals are true about the major pharmacy chains. They are making bank off of COVID with very little of that going to the people doing all the work.
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
We ended up taking this route. I hope we don’t regret the decision but it’s a trip that my wife needs for her emotional well-being.
Yeah we’ve got CEOs bragging about record profits and the staff questioning how much longer we can continue working in these conditions. It’s sad but not surprising.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
It's a careful balance between the mental health and physical health of yourself and everyone else. I'm sure your wife will be extra vigilant of everyone for any symptoms. Send home tests with them if you have extra, just for peace of mind. Everyone should be fine. I wish your family a safe and happy trip.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I don’t know. Maybe. I’m too lazy to read the link…..but…..I worked for a large, bureaucratic insurance company for a decade. Bureaucrats there had lots of “good ideas” that would “fix things.” Thankfully, many of those ideas got ignored, because most of them were dumb.
Is that the same case here? No idea. But just because people write a report and make recommendations…..doesn’t mean the recommendations are good.
skol asylum
Footballguy
One more victim of Covid. My uncle passed today. Rest in peace Stan.
He had other health issues the way it sounded but he was also unvaccinated.
Get vaxxed. Please. If not for yourself then for your family and others.
He had other health issues the way it sounded but he was also unvaccinated.
Get vaxxed. Please. If not for yourself then for your family and others.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
skol asylum
Footballguy
Thanks. I had mentioned before a bit about his situation where he was on a vent in the ICU. We weren't close, hadnt seen him in probably 30 years. He had reached out to family some mostly via Facebook the past couple of years. He had found religion and at least a couple of faith based groups for support and friendship recently so I'm glad about that.Damn sorry for your loss bro.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
skol asylum
Footballguy
Definitely. I didn't mean to paint the situation that his family didn't care about him. In some ways that's what makes it even sadder, that he had been removed from the family for so long. He was 68. I feel really sad for his son who I believe is around 30. We are thankful that there was some connection over the last 2-3 years with phone calls and Facebook messages.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
The difference is people used to just go ahead with their plans anyway. Not that they should have in the past, but people did.
I will never forget one xmas eve when my wife’s cousin and one of the kids disappeared for a bit. Apparently the kid didn’t feel well, and threw up. They went home, got changed, and came back so they “didn’t miss anything” for the holiday. Well guess whose kids had the stomach bug the next few days….
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yeah, one of my resolutions coming out of this pandemic is to use my sick leave when I'm sick. Like everybody else, I've drug myself to work on days where I really didn't feel well and was surely contagious with whatever I was walking around with. It would be great if we could normalize working from home or just using leave instead.Leeroy Jenkins said:
(That's easier said than done of course. We'll see how this goes the next time I get a cold.)
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Sounds like it's within your control though. Imagine you work at a poultry processing plant.
https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1487833014965055495?s=21
Here’s a Twitter thread with a few early studies suggesting mild Omicron infections may only provide limited protection against Omicron reinfection and future non-Omicron variants.
Here’s a Twitter thread with a few early studies suggesting mild Omicron infections may only provide limited protection against Omicron reinfection and future non-Omicron variants.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Just wait until you see the arguments on the costs/benefits of the vaccines.Judge Smails said:
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Yep. And this isn’t possible for every profession, but for those jobs where WFH is a good option, it’s actually a jack### move to go to work while ill.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I read the thread, but it didn't break out unvaccinated vs. 2x vac vs. 2x + booster.
If vax + booster still significantly reduces the risk of adverse outcomes, then even a reinfection isn't the end times. But it doesn't bode well for this being the end of the pandemic.
Reading between the lines:
Mild cases: boosted, double vaxxed, low risk
Non-mild cases: unvaccinated, waning/poor immunity
If the next variant is of the Omicron lineage, it will repeat this wave - a ton of cases, mostly mild. Less severe infections but higher risk in the breakthrough cases as vaccine immunity wanes.
If the next variant is of the Delta lineage, you can probably disregard what happened in Omicron and protection will depend on immunization and precious non-Omicron infections.
If these studies hold up, the first reaction likely would be to give an Omicron specific booster but I think that would be a mistake. The current vaccines seem to give good protection against severe Omicron infections. We don’t know if the same will be true with an Omicron booster. Give the high risk populations a booster now and the general public in the fall. Maybe by then have a hybrid vaccine that will protect against both major lineages.
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