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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
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knew exactly what this was before clicking on it.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
IMO you were needlessly confrontational. But I agree his comment was over the line (and also the exact kind of thing that's likely to get one suspended)
belljr
Footballguy
I know this is late and probably just going to cause trouble but somehow this was left out.
The study authors, however, did find closing nonessential businesses reduced COVID-19 mortality by 10.6%, which is likely most related to the closure of bars.
SpurrierisisGod
Footballguy
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Yeah, it’s common. Still, outside of those with proven deficiency, I don’t like the general idea of taking a supplement because:
1. Supplementation hasn’t proven helpful for individuals with normal D levels.
2. It invites the idea of taking more supplements, almost all of which have even less data supporting their use. The nutraceutical industry is fraught with unsupported claims, preying on consumers looking for a “natural” panacea.
3. Some people go overboard, assuming if some supplementation is good, more is better. These are the people who end up poisoning themselves.
4. I’d rather advocate a healthy diet, exercise and some sun exposure (tricky to balance with skin cancer risk).
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I honestly wouldn't care if the survival rate is 100x better than 99.98% (2 out of 1 million). I'd still get my little ones vaccinated. I sure as heck don't want my child to win the covid lottery if there are other options like a vaccine.
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
Latest I read, it's looking like March. Although the 2 shot dosing is not as effective as they wanted, and they're testing a 3rd dose, they are expecting some benefit plus an early start towards getting the 3rd dose (once approved).
CDC approval needed, of course.
ETA- Thought the thread got derailed, so risked hippling - however, answered better by Biff.
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Have you seen data on whether the booster is preventing hospitalizations, especially in the ICU? There's no question that the unvaxxed are filling up ICUs and using ventilators - see below from Miami's public hospital. I wonder for those few people who are vaxxed and coming into the hospital for COVID symptoms, how many are boosted.
>>Let’s do the numbers: from 360 unvaccinated, most are using our ICU/IMCU (~80%), only 5% of the 49 vaccinated are in ICU/IMCU and here for unrelated symptoms to COVID (heart attack, stroke or chronic diseases) bottom line vaccines work to keep you watching Netflix at home<<
https://twitter.com/david_delaz/status/1478784185225596931?t=NsqBcuQ0jtCIpFFD1OwVSQ&s=19
Joe Mammy
Footballguy
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Can't remember if I mentioned this in the thread already, but a few weeks ago I was on a Zoom where the Chief Medical Officer from Jackson gave a Covid update. He said basically what this tweet says, but a couple things I found interesting: First, they are still measuring "fully vaccinated" as at least two shots (or one J&J), and are not distinguishing boosted/non-boosted. Second, there is some reason to believe the outcomes for vaxxed vs. unvaxxed may actually be even more skewed than what their data is showing, because it's entirely based on self-reported vax status, and people may be lying out of embarrassment.
I'm talking about the commercials referring to a surge of cases which it's not right now. 2.5% positivity rate. The commercials are outdated.
I'm boosted
Joe Mammy
Footballguy
Sounds kinda like the "who you gonna vote for polls". People are embarrassed to admit they're voting party with a gross candidate.
Battersbox
Footballguy
Illinois lawsuit resulted in a temporary restraining order regarding Pritzker's mask mandate for schools, so about 165 school districts are unable to enforce mask mandates beginning tomorrow (including ours).
My wife teaches in the district. I don't envy teachers tomorrow who will have to deal with kids who are conditioned into wearing masks butting heads with kids who are ready to do away w/them. Guidance is that masks are still 'strongly encouraged' but cannot be mandated.
I'm hopeful we won't have issues with staff and students shaming others into wearing them anyway, which would result in angry parents coming over the top at administration and staff, etc. What a mess.
My wife teaches in the district. I don't envy teachers tomorrow who will have to deal with kids who are conditioned into wearing masks butting heads with kids who are ready to do away w/them. Guidance is that masks are still 'strongly encouraged' but cannot be mandated.
I'm hopeful we won't have issues with staff and students shaming others into wearing them anyway, which would result in angry parents coming over the top at administration and staff, etc. What a mess.
Battersbox
Footballguy
I'm not. I'm worried students who are conditioned into wearing masks will feel compelled to shame students who choose not to wear a mask. I'm hopeful they will not. Teachers and staff could also do the same, but I'm guessing they will receive guidance to avoid that. Not sure the student body at large will receive similar guidance.
The reverse is also true: once mandates are dropped permanently I would worry about kids & staff shaming those who continue to mask. That also shouldn't happen.
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So the schools want to have a mask mandate but can’t enforce it now due to a lawsuit. You’re worried about students shaming other students into wearing masks? The conflict is almost always with the parents who don’t want their kids wearing masks. Saying students who continue wearing their mask are ‘conditioned’ into wearing them is disgusting. Maybe they just want to do everything to keep themselves and their classmates healthy while following the preferences of the school district. Nah they’re just conditioned to do it and are probably going to shame others into it.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I don’t think you need to lose sleep. The shaming will be going the other direction.
The chain of events he thinks will happen:
-Mask mandate no longer can be enforced
-Some kids continue to wear masks.
-Other kids see them wearing masks and wear theirs too.
-Anti-mask parents see kids wearing masks and go cause problems at school.
Clearly the issue is the kids who continue wearing their masks.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
"Masks are strongly encouraged" has been our district's policy all year. My understanding is that actual mask usage is ~0%. I wouldn't worry too much about kids being shamed for not wearing masks. It's more likely that all the masks will vanish on day one.Battersbox said:
belljr
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Some of it is probably classical conditioning. Some of is it little kids taking their cues from neurotic parents.
None of it is elementary school kids reviewing the epidemiological data and concluding that the marginal benefits from widespread masking in local schools stemming from reduced community spread offset the potential marginal costs stemming from hard-to-quantify communication and socialization problems. Any little kid who delivers a speech along these lines is just repeating back something that he heard dad say to mom on the drive to school. (The same goes for kids who have suspiciously adult-sounding arguments for not wanting to wear a mask, of course.)
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Battersbox
Footballguy
When you've told kids for nearly 2 years they must do something or bad things will happen to themselves or others, that's kind of the textbook definition of conditioned. It's not disgusting, lighten up.
The vast majority of kids in my experience refrain from masking virtually everywhere else they go and they don't think twice about it.
Thanks for speaking for me. Give me a break.
Battersbox
Footballguy
Battersbox
Footballguy
Anyone who wants to mask should be able to do so until they feel comfortable not doing so.
Is that clear enough for you? Or do you want to continue to post on my behalf?
Battersbox
Footballguy
ZADO
Footballguy
i agree ,the choice should be accepted by all. My guess its a trickle down effect from the parents view point on the subject.
Battersbox
Footballguy
I'm not sure that masks will disappear here, at least not quickly. It's been too long. Which was my original point--we will have a mixture of attitudes about this, and I hope staff and stakeholders can progress through it with as little acrimony as possible.
It’s the difference between how you answer the question they ask ‘why do we have to wear a mask?’ If the answer is simply ‘because we said so’ or ‘that’s the rules’, they’re not going understand why they’re doing it. We’ve always made a point to tell them what’s going on and why they have to wear masks some places and not others. Even at the ages of 6 and 3, they understand and don’t mind wearing a mask. Neither of them have socialization or communication problems. Sorry if you think being honest with our kids makes us neurotic but it’s better than keeping them in the dark and just telling them they have to wear it.
Joe Mammy
Footballguy
I live in Citrus County, FL. I played pickleball last weekend with the Dean of Students at our local high school. He told me they've been operating with 40% of faculty out sick. They've had to put 8 classes together in the gym for one teacher to handle.
He said nobody is masking up anywhere in the school.
Another guy teaches networking at the local Technical Institute. He said ditto at his school too.
Most people mask up in the grocery stores but that's about it.
We have two hospitals, ICUs are at 86% and 97% capacity.
He said nobody is masking up anywhere in the school.
Another guy teaches networking at the local Technical Institute. He said ditto at his school too.
Most people mask up in the grocery stores but that's about it.
We have two hospitals, ICUs are at 86% and 97% capacity.
What words did I put in your mouth that weren’t in your original post?
Battersbox said:
But that’s all reasonable and certainly makes for a better learning environment. At least the kids don’t have to wear a mask.
Battersbox
Footballguy
The chain of events he thinks will happen:
-Mask mandate no longer can be enforced
-Some kids continue to wear masks.
-Other kids see them wearing masks and wear theirs too.
-Anti-mask parents see kids wearing masks and go cause problems at school.
Clearly the issue is the kids who continue wearing their masks.
You made some leaps here. There can be 2 types of kids who continue to mask: those who continue to mask and accept that others won't, and those who continue to mask and actively try to shame others into the same practice.
My issue isn't with kids wearing masks. My issue is with kids who want everyone to continue to mask and who then try to shame others into compliance.
I won't speak for you (I don't like to do that to others) so I'll ask you directly: are you saying it's fine for kids to shame others into compliance despite the absence of a mandate?
The Commish
Footballguy
This has been a thought exercise for me as of late and I have PLENTY of anti-vax people I interact with daily. Lately, I've tried a different approach. I've asked if they would give their kids a gun to play with unsupervised if they knew the chances of their kid getting hurt were < 1%. If I didn't getThe Z Machine said:
I got a "no". I also used the scenario of just leaving a gun out for a group of kids to play with....also yielded similar results. I don’t think kids are going to shame others into masking. I’ve never seen nor heard it happening. The opposite happens all the time and happens to my daughters.
I honestly don’t know where you’re getting the idea that kids are shaming others into masking.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
That's fine. I'm just asking that people be honest. At that age, kids just repeat back whatever they're being told by adults. It doesn't mean anything beyond that.
This is a horrible analogy.This has been a thought exercise for me as of late and I have PLENTY of anti-vax people I interact with daily. Lately, I've tried a different approach. I've asked if they would give their kids a gun to play with unsupervised if they knew the chances of their kid getting hurt were < 1%. If I didn't get
There is no risk for NOT giving the kids a gun. There is a risk (albeit slight) for giving kids the vaccine. There is also the unknown risk.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with this. (Although I might have said not analagous instead of "horrible, but whatever.)
The risk of giving kids the vaccine is close to but is not zero.
So @The General, it seems like your thought experiment is making an argument for NOT giving the vaccine.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
NPR article in what COVID will look like going forward.
Some really good stuff in there talking about how the body’s immune system works, why it does what it does, what the data seems to indicate for how the body will respond to future infections, and how we should proceed as a society.
Basically it boils down to the body’s immune system both from being infected and being immunized will ultimately do a poor job of preventing re-infection but a great job at preventing serious illness. And that each person should ultimately plan on ending up being reinfected with COVID every year or 2 much like other coronaviruses. The article basically paints it as inevitable and says we should just rip the bandaid off and stop putting all of these extra measures in place and learn to live with it.
I think that ultimately probably makes sense, with the caveat that I think that it still makes sense to encourage people to stay home and/or wear a mask when they are sick (something we all should have been doing/encouraging anyway).
Some really good stuff in there talking about how the body’s immune system works, why it does what it does, what the data seems to indicate for how the body will respond to future infections, and how we should proceed as a society.
Basically it boils down to the body’s immune system both from being infected and being immunized will ultimately do a poor job of preventing re-infection but a great job at preventing serious illness. And that each person should ultimately plan on ending up being reinfected with COVID every year or 2 much like other coronaviruses. The article basically paints it as inevitable and says we should just rip the bandaid off and stop putting all of these extra measures in place and learn to live with it.
I think that ultimately probably makes sense, with the caveat that I think that it still makes sense to encourage people to stay home and/or wear a mask when they are sick (something we all should have been doing/encouraging anyway).
Battersbox
Footballguy
We have no experience with this in my area, because we've universally masked the entire time. I'm hopeful you're right and it won't happen. But from experience with talking with people and reading community forums for our school districts, some who believe in mask mandates are already up in arms and very vocal about the legal ruling. Several districts (including Chicago Public Schools) are supposedly going to defy the law on this. The Chicago Teachers Union is discussing yet another strike. A former teacher of mine (who I'm friends with on Facebook) openly posted she would actively shame kids in her classes who chose to not mask if she weren't already retired.
Kids often take cues from adults of course. If some teachers are going to be hostile toward kids who choose to not mask, it's reasonable to assume some kids will be hostile as well. I hope it doesn't happen, but that's where I get the idea that it could.
I'll repost my question since you didn't answer: do you think it's okay for those who want everyone to continue to mask to pressure those who choose not to?
Doug B
Footballguy
This is highly variable depending on several factors. My two teens are extremely conscientious about wearing masks in public indoor spaces and don't have to be reminded or cajoled.
Just eyeballing it and forming an anecdote: masking in public indoor spaces isn't 100% around here for high school aged kids, but it's more common than not.
The General
Footballguy
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