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Official Donald Trump for President thread (3 Viewers)

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Coeur de Lion said:
This is unprecedented, and I don't see it just going away. He is going to get crushed in a month, and sitting Republicans who supported him are going to be tarred with not only supporting a POS, but also with the impending disaster. The scarlet "T" effect.
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It's going to take multiple election cycles before the GOP washes off the stink off from this one. 

In fact, I could genuinely see the Republican party breaking up or being replaced by somebody else thanks to this debacle.  Usually that kind of prediction strikes me as complete hyperbole, but it's kind of hard to see how the GOP comes back from this four years from now like nothing happened.  

 
IvanKaramazov said:
It's going to take multiple election cycles before the GOP washes off the stink off from this one. 

In fact, I could genuinely see the Republican party breaking up or being replaced by somebody else thanks to this debacle.  Usually that kind of prediction strikes me as complete hyperbole, but it's kind of hard to see how the GOP comes back from this four years from now like nothing happened.  
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Best thing for the country as a whole would be for both parties to fracture and spawn two or more new entities.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
It's going to take multiple election cycles before the GOP washes off the stink off from this one. 

In fact, I could genuinely see the Republican party breaking up or being replaced by somebody else thanks to this debacle.  Usually that kind of prediction strikes me as complete hyperbole, but it's kind of hard to see how the GOP comes back from this four years from now like nothing happened.  
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While I agree with a lot of this, I still kinda think this is exactly the kick in the ### the party needed and will be looked back at as a positive turning point for the Republican Party. They were getting old and irrelevant rather quickly and lessons will be learned here.

 
jamny said:
While I agree with a lot of this, I still kinda think this is exactly the kick in the ### the party needed and will be looked back at as a positive turning point for the Republican Party. They were getting old and irrelevant rather quickly and lessons will be learned here.
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But what can the Party do about the nutjobs that they've brought into the fold that think they're conservatives when they're really just Joker-type right wingers that just wanted to watch things burn? Those people are going to demand the same the next cycle and aren't going to go away.

 
jamny said:
While I agree with a lot of this, I still kinda think this is exactly the kick in the ### the party needed and will be looked back at as a positive turning point for the Republican Party. They were getting old and irrelevant rather quickly and lessons will be learned here.
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I think you could've made this exact post, verbatim, the day after Election Day 2012.  The GOP did an autopsy and then totally disregarded the results....

 
jamny said:
While I agree with a lot of this, I still kinda think this is exactly the kick in the ### the party needed and will be looked back at as a positive turning point for the Republican Party. They were getting old and irrelevant rather quickly and lessons will be learned here.
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I have no doubt that the lessons have already been learned by the party brass themselves. The issue lies with their voting base, who IMO are pretty hugely likely to double down and go with the "rigged election," "media bias," etc. Working to purge the crazy will bring a pretty huge risk of getting primaried for the forseeable future.

 
Steve Tasker said:
I think you could've made this exact post, verbatim, the day after Election Day 2012.  The GOP did an autopsy and then THE VOTERS totally disregarded the results....
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See my edit. The GOP establishment knows what's up, undoubtedly -- but how to reign in the lunatic fringe that makes up a significant part of their base?

 
IvanKaramazov said:
It's going to take multiple election cycles before the GOP washes off the stink off from this one. 

In fact, I could genuinely see the Republican party breaking up or being replaced by somebody else thanks to this debacle.  Usually that kind of prediction strikes me as complete hyperbole, but it's kind of hard to see how the GOP comes back from this four years from now like nothing happened.  
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I think everyone is fooling themselves if they think this is going to be a total blowout (I'll be shocked if she wins by more than 6-7%).  He still has the Republican base and they will still turn out and the vast majority will vote for Republican House members (ie I'll still be surprised if the House isn't Republican).  Will their be infighting, yes, but a total break-up seems far fetched for a party that probably controls one branch of Congress.  

Plus everyone (Trumps and never-Trumps) will be united in their hatred of Hillary once Trump's off the stage. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
But what can the Party do about the nutjobs that they've brought into the fold that think they're conservatives when they're really just Joker-type right wingers that just wanted to watch things burn? Those people are going to demand the same the next cycle and aren't going to go away.
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Expanding the tent? :lmao:

Seriously though, they're going to lose a big portion of Trump supporters who were never really political to begin with. I have a couple of friends that registered to vote for the first time just to vote for Trump. After Election Day, they will continue to be disillusioned and fade back into the woodwork. A lot of Bernie supporters probably feel the same way. But there is an opportunity to get some of the more moderate among them who were holding their nose to vote for Trump. They have to try and hold on to them.

 
Sammy3469 said:
I think everyone is fooling themselves if they think this is going to be a total blowout (I'll be shocked if she wins by more than 6-7%).  He still has the Republican base and they will still turn out and the vast majority will vote for Republican House members (ie I'll still be surprised if the House isn't Republican).  Will their be infighting, yes, but a total break-up seems far fetched for a party that probably controls one branch of Congress.  

Plus everyone (Trumps and never-Trumps) will be united in their hatred of Hillary once Trump's off the stage. 
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Have we reached the point where we start gambling with really irrational GOP supporters?  

I would lay up to 5-1 on HRC right now without blinking.  The only sites I have money in have capped the limits and seems other places like Vegas have as well, but not sure.  

 
My hope is the left continues to paint the people who are sick of their politics as the "lunatic fringe." I think this election has shown more than anything that there are a whole bunch of people sick of whiny, over protective, daddy government types. A correction is coming. The cycle will shift. People are getting fed up with safe spaces, media attacks on the right, and censorship. I expect a shift to the right to continue, regardless of what happens in this election.  

 
Steve Tasker said:
I think you could've made this exact post, verbatim, the day after Election Day 2012.  The GOP did an autopsy and then totally disregarded the results....
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I think this started in 2012. Look at how many people ran this time around, almost all being very different. It may take another 4 to 8 years but a huge change has been under way that is far ahead of what the Democrats are experiencing.

 
timschochet said:
Wait- what??
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I had to google this guy because I didn't know the story. Everything I see says he committed suicide and they even had investigation with Ken Starr leading the way which confirmed it. 

I assume this is just another right wing bubble conspiracy theory that all of them believe?

 
Man in the yellow hat said:
My hope is the left continues to paint the people who are sick of their politics as the "lunatic fringe." I think this election has shown more than anything that there are a whole bunch of people sick of whiny, over protective, daddy government types. A correction is coming. The cycle will shift. People are getting fed up with safe spaces, media attacks on the right, and censorship. I expect a shift to the right to continue, regardless of what happens in this election.  
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While I am not part of "the left", I don't think, the idea that the GOP represents anything other than a large-government, government-overreach party is incredible to me.  It's one of the things that they have actually branded quite well, selling themselves as a party of limited government while not really actually representing limited government at all in recent years.

 
Steve Tasker said:
While I am not part of "the left", I don't think, the idea that the GOP represents anything other than a large-government, government-overreach party is incredible to me.  It's one of the things that they have actually branded quite well, selling themselves as a party of limited government while not really actually representing limited government at all in recent years.
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Here's the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Democrats want more government for everyone.

Republicans want more government for everyone but themselves.

 
jamny said:
I think this started in 2012. Look at how many people ran this time around, almost all being very different. It may take another 4 to 8 years but a huge change has been under way that is far ahead of what the Democrats are experiencing.
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This goes back farther than that. It's roots lie in the GOP's Southern Strategy of the 1960s and then the right's embrace of the evangelicals in the 70s and 80s. The stupid really started to show itself in the rise of the Tea Party after Obama was elected, with Michelle Bachmann, etc and the government shut down nonsense. And now even mainstream sitting Republicans are still doing stupid and pointless stuff like continually voting to repeal the ACA and obstructing the hearings for Merrick Garland -- because they have to. Their base expects it, and thinks that anything less makes them a "cuck" and deserving of a primary challenge from a whack a doodle from the far right.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
But what can the Party do about the nutjobs that they've brought into the fold that think they're conservatives when they're really just Joker-type right wingers that just wanted to watch things burn? Those people are going to demand the same the next cycle and aren't going to go away.
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They need to let them fall by the wayside. Get rid of the relgious and anti-gay rhetoric and get reasonable on a few other issues, while letting the DNC move further left. It will take a few cycles, but people want socially left and fiscally right -- they could build towards that and dominate millenials as they age and make money. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
They need to let them fall by the wayside. Get rid of the relgious and anti-gay rhetoric and get reasonable on a few other issues, while letting the DNC move further left. It will take a few cycles, but people want socially left and fiscally right -- they could build towards that and dominate millenials as they age and make money. 
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:goodposting:

 
Trump isn't an evangelical, so it seems kind of odd to blame that wing of the party for Trump.  If the GOP had settled on Cruz, then yeah sure.  You can make a better argument that Trump is the result of evangelicals not having enough influence in the party.

Not that I'm a fan of the evangelical wing, just that this doesn't seem like a fair criticism.   

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Trump isn't an evangelical, so it seems kind of odd to blame that wing of the party for Trump.  If the GOP had settled on Cruz, then yeah sure.  You can make a better argument that Trump is the result of evangelicals not having enough influence in the party.

Not that I'm a fan of the evangelical wing, just that this doesn't seem like a fair criticism.   
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While that's true, it's also the evangelicals that stood by him this weekend.  

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Trump isn't an evangelical, so it seems kind of odd to blame that wing of the party for Trump.  If the GOP had settled on Cruz, then yeah sure.  You can make a better argument that Trump is the result of evangelicals not having enough influence in the party.

Not that I'm a fan of the evangelical wing, just that this doesn't seem like a fair criticism.   
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I was speaking more in terms of a general growth of extremism and obduracy. The fact that a huge chunk of people are still single issue voters willing to die on the hill of abortion or gay marriage in a lost cause certainly isn't healthy for the party overall. The evangelicals are fully aboard the Trump train, in the utterly absurd hope that he can nominate justices to overturn Roe, and are willing to ignore everything else based solely upon that pipe dream. It's awful.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
What does this even mean?
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It means that we're probably not even close to hitting rock bottom yet, unfortunately. He's no longer going to listen to the RNC and the establishment telling him to tone it down or "you just can't say that." I'm guessing he's going to go full Breitbart / Infowars scorched Earth style.

 
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You guys need to stop talking about social conservatism. That's not what the problem is. That's an old divide, and social conservatives and economic conservatives can live with each other. 

The new divide is the capitalists on one side, and the populist, anti-immigrant, anti-trade xenophobes on the other side. These two groups can't live with each other. That's the problem. And of the issues I just listed, by far the most important is immigration. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Trump isn't an evangelical, so it seems kind of odd to blame that wing of the party for Trump.  If the GOP had settled on Cruz, then yeah sure.  You can make a better argument that Trump is the result of evangelicals not having enough influence in the party.

Not that I'm a fan of the evangelical wing, just that this doesn't seem like a fair criticism.   
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GOP found out with Romney that there simply isn't enough to give evangelicals to get them to vote as a block in swing states.  Cruz really found this out the hard way.  

There just isn't enough red meat left to throw at them.  The issue of abortion, and gay marriage is solved, forever.  There are women in the military, gays in the military, What is the evangelical line in the sand?  There hasn't even been a hint that they even have a hill to die on anymore, they've been systematically wiped out.  

Bathrooms didn't stick.  Such a tiny red herring issue that vanished.  

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
They need to let them fall by the wayside. Get rid of the relgious and anti-gay rhetoric and get reasonable on a few other issues, while letting the DNC move further left. It will take a few cycles, but people want socially left and fiscally right -- they could build towards that and dominate millenials as they age and make money. 
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Depends on the makeup of their individual districts. No way they can survive attempting this in areas where old people and evangelicals make up most of their base.

 
Hilts said:
No clue how Republicans managed to swing and miss with the world's largest softball.
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Because the truth is she's not a softball at all, despite the GOP and conservative media doing their best for the past 12+ years to turn her into that. There will always be some political pandering done on both sides, but certain conservatives have taken that to an all time low with Hillary and Obama. They've created a monster that they can't control.

I'm talking about the certifiable nutjobs like Alex Jones, who says things like "Hillary and Obama are possessed by demons and want to destroy our country", and he actually has an audience that truly believes that crazy ####. It's no coincidence Trump called Hillary "the devil" during the town hall debate. And by ramping up the "crazy" to bring out those voters, they are alienating the intelligent and rational people who would gladly vote for almost any other Republican cadidate based on policy alone. 

 
Sammy3469 said:
While that's true, it's also the evangelicals that stood by him this weekend.  
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True.  That's what happens when people decide to hold their noses and vote for the least-bad candidate because of the Supreme Court or whatever.  

If you look down on evangelicals because they're sticking by their party and won't break with Trump, that's fair.  Understand that I feel the same way about many Clinton supporters.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
True.  That's what happens when people decide to hold their noses and vote for the least-bad candidate because of the Supreme Court or whatever.  

If you look down on evangelicals because they're sticking by their party and won't break with Trump, that's fair.  Understand that I feel the same way about many Clinton supporters.
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Yeah, but you're not dumb enough to vote for Trump -- and that's a HUGE difference.

 
timschochet said:
You guys need to stop talking about social conservatism. That's not what the problem is. That's an old divide, and social conservatives and economic conservatives can live with each other. 

The new divide is the capitalists on one side, and the populist, anti-immigrant, anti-trade xenophobes on the other side. These two groups can't live with each other. That's the problem. And of the issues I just listed, by far the most important is immigration. 
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There is a pretty big overlap between the two groups though; the common thread is the closed-minded anti-intellectualism. And don't forget the anti-Muslim flavor.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
True.  That's what happens when people decide to hold their noses and vote for the least-bad candidate because of the Supreme Court or whatever.  

If you look down on evangelicals because they're sticking by their party and won't break with Trump, that's fair.  Understand that I feel the same way about many Clinton supporters.
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I don't look down on them, but I do think they share blame for having him on the top of the ticket.  

I also think you're downplaying their support of him in the primaries.  Here's an Atlantic article from the summer of 2015 outlining their support of him from earlier on:

According to the most recent polls, Trump is one of the top picks for president among evangelical Christians. One Washington Post poll even had him as the group’s favorite by a margin of six points. His first major rally in the Bible-Belt fortress town of Mobile, Alabama, drew an estimated 18,000 attendees. And on September 28, prominent televangelist Paula White will reportedly lead a delegation of evangelical leaders to meet with the mogul in Trump Tower.
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http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/why-do-evangelicals-support-donald-trump/403591/

 
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