*****OFFICIAL FORMULA ONE GRAND PRIX THREAD***** (4 Viewers)

[culdeus]

Another management shakeup at Aston Martin with team principal Andy Cowell reassigned reportedly following clashes with Adrian Newey. This BBC article mentions the usual suspects as possible replacements. I doubt Cowell was the problem but I don't know anything.

Christian Horner in running to replace Andy Cowell at Aston Martin

Christian Horner is one of the names in the running to lead the Aston Martin Formula 1 team if Andy Cowell loses his role as CEO and team principal.

www.bbc.com

Gunther

 

[Eephus]

Another management shakeup at Aston Martin with team principal Andy Cowell reassigned reportedly following clashes with Adrian Newey. This BBC article mentions the usual suspects as possible replacements. I doubt Cowell was the problem but I don't know anything.

Christian Horner in running to replace Andy Cowell at Aston Martin

Christian Horner is one of the names in the running to lead the Aston Martin Formula 1 team if Andy Cowell loses his role as CEO and team principal.

www.bbc.com

Gunther

He's going to MotoGP

 

[SofaKings]

Another management shakeup at Aston Martin with team principal Andy Cowell reassigned reportedly following clashes with Adrian Newey. This BBC article mentions the usual suspects as possible replacements. I doubt Cowell was the problem but I don't know anything.

Christian Horner in running to replace Andy Cowell at Aston Martin

Christian Horner is one of the names in the running to lead the Aston Martin Formula 1 team if Andy Cowell loses his role as CEO and team principal.

www.bbc.com

I question whether Stroll and Horner can coexist.

 

[thecatch]

Another management shakeup at Aston Martin with team principal Andy Cowell reassigned reportedly following clashes with Adrian Newey. This BBC article mentions the usual suspects as possible replacements. I doubt Cowell was the problem but I don't know anything.

Christian Horner in running to replace Andy Cowell at Aston Martin

Christian Horner is one of the names in the running to lead the Aston Martin Formula 1 team if Andy Cowell loses his role as CEO and team principal.

www.bbc.com

I question whether Stroll and Horner can coexist.

He doesn't get along with Newey reportedly either, which seems like a problem.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Another management shakeup at Aston Martin with team principal Andy Cowell reassigned reportedly following clashes with Adrian Newey. This BBC article mentions the usual suspects as possible replacements. I doubt Cowell was the problem but I don't know anything.

Christian Horner in running to replace Andy Cowell at Aston Martin

Christian Horner is one of the names in the running to lead the Aston Martin Formula 1 team if Andy Cowell loses his role as CEO and team principal.

www.bbc.com

I question whether Stroll and Horner can coexist.

He doesn't get along with Newey reportedly either, which seems like a problem.

So this is the most fun option
-QG

 

[QuizGuy66]

Ugh wrong thread delete delete delete
-QG

 

[Eephus]

Maybe Newey the team principal will have enough juice to get a better driver lineup in 2027

 

[thecatch]

Newey really didn't want to work with Horner.

 

[Eephus]

It's going to be a strange Qatar Grand Prix with the Pirelli-imposed 25 lap limit on a set of tires coupled with a sprint race on Saturday.

Each car gets two sets of hards, four mediums and six softs. The engineers will earn their meager cost-capped salaries trying to figure out how to make them last for a grand prix, a sprint and potentially six qualifying sessions. If a driver flat spots a set on Friday or Saturday, it could compromise his whole weekend.

 

[The Gator]

It's going to be a strange Qatar Grand Prix with the Pirelli-imposed 25 lap limit

Why is this enforced instead of recommend? Someone wants to go 30 laps and blows a tire, oh well. The mandatory stop basically makes this Monaco

 

[Skipdog77]

It's going to be a strange Qatar Grand Prix with the Pirelli-imposed 25 lap limit on a set of tires coupled with a sprint race on Saturday.

Each car gets two sets of hards, four mediums and six softs. The engineers will earn their meager cost-capped salaries trying to figure out how to make them last for a grand prix, a sprint and potentially six qualifying sessions. If a driver flat spots a set on Friday or Saturday, it could compromise his whole weekend.

McLaren orders to Piastri to test out his brakes, hard, several times during FP incoming.

 

[TennesseeJed]

Tsunoda with his first time qualifying ahead of Max as teammates.

I expect he will pull over at the start of the sprint race to let Max by before turn 1 tomorrow...

 

[TennesseeJed]

yawn.

Tsunodo pulled over for Max as expected, but then nothing doing the rest of the sprint.

Quali will be critical later.


I am sure FIA will be hoping for a Norris DNF tomorrow, which would bring all 3 drivers into the picture for a grand finish.

 

[TennesseeJed]

At this point, I am assuming that Ferrari getting both cars out of Q3 will be considered a win for the weekend.

 

[Eephus]

I know I always complain about modern F1 tracks but the Lusail circuit is the absolute worst. Zero elevation changes, one long straight and a whole bunch of medium-high speed corners without trackside landmarks to distinguish them from one another. Then add in an abrasive surface, the tire restrictions and the whole Qatari thing on top of it. It was designed as a motorcycle track but it's not even great as a MotoGP venue.

 

[Eephus]

I know I always complain about modern F1 tracks but the Lusail circuit is the absolute worst. Zero elevation changes, one long straight and a whole bunch of medium-high speed corners without trackside landmarks to distinguish them from one another. Then add in an abrasive surface, the tire restrictions and the whole Qatari thing on top of it. It was designed as a motorcycle track but it's not even great as a MotoGP venue.

The onboards for qualifying are OK I guess

 

[TennesseeJed]

At this point, I am assuming that Ferrari getting both cars out of Q3 will be considered a win for the weekend.

Mixed weekend...

 

[Eephus]

At this point, I am assuming that Ferrari getting both cars out of Q3 will be considered a win for the weekend.

Mixed weekend...

Lewis' confidence is shot

 

[TennesseeJed]

McLaren need to impose strict "no racing" rules.

It would not be popular - but that is what both drivers need. The only way Max gets in the picture is if both McLarens make a mistake. Lando can still win the championship by finishing 2nd.

 

[TennesseeJed]

At this point, I am assuming that Ferrari getting both cars out of Q3 will be considered a win for the weekend.

Mixed weekend...

Lewis' confidence is shot

To be fair - so is that Ferrari.


I think a lot of teams/divers are just waiting to see what the new world order looks like under the new regs next season.

 

[Skipdog77]

At this point, I am assuming that Ferrari getting both cars out of Q3 will be considered a win for the weekend.

Mixed weekend...

Lewis' confidence is shot

Fixed your post.

Semi-joking, but the last few seasons have been underwhelming for him. He's got 2 wins in 4 seasons, and finished higher than 6th overall in only one. Father Time is undefeated, at what point do we accept that this is what Lewis is now?

 

[thecatch]

At this point, I am assuming that Ferrari getting both cars out of Q3 will be considered a win for the weekend.

Mixed weekend...

Lewis' confidence is shot

Fixed your post.

Semi-joking, but the last few seasons have been underwhelming for him. He's got 2 wins in 4 seasons, and finished higher than 6th overall in only one. Father Time is undefeated, at what point do we accept that this is what Lewis is now?

He's been dominated by Russell and Leclerc head to head the last couple of years. It's hard to argue he isn't a mid-tier driver at this point, which is still an accomplishment given his age.

 

[culdeus]

Why put a sprint this late in the season

 

[Eephus]

Why put a sprint this late in the season

I think they've held a late-season sprint in every post pandemic season between Brazil and Qatar. I guess it makes sense to put them late in the season because the cars are sorted enough to not benefit much from two more free practice sessions.

 

[Eephus]

Papaya rules giveth, papaya rules taketh away.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Too bad Antonelli couldn't hold his line for two more laps. But there is a chance the orange team will lose it all next week which looked neigh impossible not too long ago. A repeat of this result next week will be enough.

-QG

 

[northern exposure]

Too bad Antonelli couldn't hold his line for two more laps. But there is a chance the orange team will lose it all next week which looked neigh impossible not too long ago. A repeat of this result next week will be enough.

-QG

People talk about team sports (football, baseball, basketball,etc.) being fixed, but this sure seems odd.
Max was so far back from the lead, it seemed next to impossible he could even get back into contention.....now it's coming down to the last race of the season.
I'm sure F1 gets a lot more eyeballs on the Abu Dhabi race than if Norris ran away with it and Verstappen and Piastri had no chance of catching him.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Naah I can't see McLaren signing off on something like that - too many dollars in the mix for them too (and they would just as soon have an "exciting" finish between just their two drivers. They caught up with the equal treatment stuff - couldn't double stack the pit stop without disadvantaging Norris so they didn't stop at all. In a conventional situation (or one where one had a chance at the championship and one didn't) they would almost certainly had split strategy there.

-QG

 

[The Gator]

A repeat of this result next week will be enough.

Christmas coming early fellas!

 

[Eephus]

It makes no sense for hyper-competitive teams who'll stop at nothing to scratch out the tiniest advantage to intentionally spice up the show to benefit Liberty and the FIA. There have been other years where performance changes during the season cause a tighter championship battle than would have been expected at mid-year.

McLaren just screwed up; they placed too high of a value on the strategic flexibility of not being forced into two 25 lap stints. They also probably expected other teams would think the same and there would be more traffic between them and Verstappen on the road. They had enough of a gap to double stack although there would have been the risk for Norris of getting a delayed pit exit that ruined Russell's evening.

 

[northern exposure]

It makes no sense for hyper-competitive teams who'll stop at nothing to scratch out the tiniest advantage to intentionally spice up the show to benefit Liberty and the FIA. There have been other years where performance changes during the season cause a tighter championship battle than would have been expected at mid-year.

McLaren just screwed up; they placed too high of a value on the strategic flexibility of not being forced into two 25 lap stints. They also probably expected other teams would think the same and there would be more traffic between them and Verstappen on the road. They had enough of a gap to double stack although there would have been the risk for Norris of getting a delayed pit exit that ruined Russell's evening.

Granted the question about fixing the outcome doesn't hold as much water after the strategic mistake by McLaren in the latest race. But, the double DQ of the McLaren drivers in the previous race looks pretty suspicious now.

 

[Skipdog77]

It makes no sense for hyper-competitive teams who'll stop at nothing to scratch out the tiniest advantage to intentionally spice up the show to benefit Liberty and the FIA. There have been other years where performance changes during the season cause a tighter championship battle than would have been expected at mid-year.

McLaren just screwed up; they placed too high of a value on the strategic flexibility of not being forced into two 25 lap stints. They also probably expected other teams would think the same and there would be more traffic between them and Verstappen on the road. They had enough of a gap to double stack although there would have been the risk for Norris of getting a delayed pit exit that ruined Russell's evening.

Granted the question about fixing the outcome doesn't hold as much water after the strategic mistake by McLaren in the latest race. But, the double DQ of the McLaren drivers in the previous race looks pretty suspicious now.

McLaren admitted their mistake on the ride height post-race in LV, and were actively trying to mitigate it during the race on the radio with both drivers to try and keep them in compliance. How are you pulling a FIA conspiracy theory out of that?

 

[thecatch]

It makes no sense for hyper-competitive teams who'll stop at nothing to scratch out the tiniest advantage to intentionally spice up the show to benefit Liberty and the FIA. There have been other years where performance changes during the season cause a tighter championship battle than would have been expected at mid-year.

McLaren just screwed up; they placed too high of a value on the strategic flexibility of not being forced into two 25 lap stints. They also probably expected other teams would think the same and there would be more traffic between them and Verstappen on the road. They had enough of a gap to double stack although there would have been the risk for Norris of getting a delayed pit exit that ruined Russell's evening.

Granted the question about fixing the outcome doesn't hold as much water after the strategic mistake by McLaren in the latest race. But, the double DQ of the McLaren drivers in the previous race looks pretty suspicious now.

McLaren admitted their mistake on the ride height post-race in LV, and were actively trying to mitigate it during the race on the radio with both drivers to try and keep them in compliance. How are you pulling a FIA conspiracy theory out of that?

I think the explanation is entirely credible, but at first glance at the time it did seem a little suspicious, and it has certainly worked out to F1's benefit in terms of juicing interest in the last race.

 

[The Gator]

Also, 99.9999% chance McLaren double stack if Lando is leading instead of staying out imo

 

[Skipdog77]

It makes no sense for hyper-competitive teams who'll stop at nothing to scratch out the tiniest advantage to intentionally spice up the show to benefit Liberty and the FIA. There have been other years where performance changes during the season cause a tighter championship battle than would have been expected at mid-year.

McLaren just screwed up; they placed too high of a value on the strategic flexibility of not being forced into two 25 lap stints. They also probably expected other teams would think the same and there would be more traffic between them and Verstappen on the road. They had enough of a gap to double stack although there would have been the risk for Norris of getting a delayed pit exit that ruined Russell's evening.

Granted the question about fixing the outcome doesn't hold as much water after the strategic mistake by McLaren in the latest race. But, the double DQ of the McLaren drivers in the previous race looks pretty suspicious now.

McLaren admitted their mistake on the ride height post-race in LV, and were actively trying to mitigate it during the race on the radio with both drivers to try and keep them in compliance. How are you pulling a FIA conspiracy theory out of that?

I think the explanation is entirely credible, but at first glance at the time it did seem a little suspicious, and it has certainly worked out to F1's benefit in terms of juicing interest in the last race.

#blameflavio

 

[northern exposure]

It makes no sense for hyper-competitive teams who'll stop at nothing to scratch out the tiniest advantage to intentionally spice up the show to benefit Liberty and the FIA. There have been other years where performance changes during the season cause a tighter championship battle than would have been expected at mid-year.

McLaren just screwed up; they placed too high of a value on the strategic flexibility of not being forced into two 25 lap stints. They also probably expected other teams would think the same and there would be more traffic between them and Verstappen on the road. They had enough of a gap to double stack although there would have been the risk for Norris of getting a delayed pit exit that ruined Russell's evening.

Granted the question about fixing the outcome doesn't hold as much water after the strategic mistake by McLaren in the latest race. But, the double DQ of the McLaren drivers in the previous race looks pretty suspicious now.

McLaren admitted their mistake on the ride height post-race in LV, and were actively trying to mitigate it during the race on the radio with both drivers to try and keep them in compliance. How are you pulling a FIA conspiracy theory out of that?

There seem to be questionable rulings during every race in terms of time penalties, etc. So, does McClaren choose to take their lumps in the LV race and maintain their drivers leading the standings? Or protest and face further wrath in the remaining two races?
#devilsadvocate

 

[Eephus]

It makes no sense for hyper-competitive teams who'll stop at nothing to scratch out the tiniest advantage to intentionally spice up the show to benefit Liberty and the FIA. There have been other years where performance changes during the season cause a tighter championship battle than would have been expected at mid-year.

McLaren just screwed up; they placed too high of a value on the strategic flexibility of not being forced into two 25 lap stints. They also probably expected other teams would think the same and there would be more traffic between them and Verstappen on the road. They had enough of a gap to double stack although there would have been the risk for Norris of getting a delayed pit exit that ruined Russell's evening.

Granted the question about fixing the outcome doesn't hold as much water after the strategic mistake by McLaren in the latest race. But, the double DQ of the McLaren drivers in the previous race looks pretty suspicious now.

McLaren admitted their mistake on the ride height post-race in LV, and were actively trying to mitigate it during the race on the radio with both drivers to try and keep them in compliance. How are you pulling a FIA conspiracy theory out of that?

There seem to be questionable rulings during every race in terms of time penalties, etc. So, does McClaren choose to take their lumps in the LV race and maintain their drivers leading the standings? Or protest and face further wrath in the remaining two races?
#devilsadvocate

Rulings on violations of the technical regs are black and white, the plank had too much wear. There's no basis for a McLaren protest unless they say the bright lights of Vegas somehow affected the measurements.

Protests against steward's decisions are rarely successful. The sporting regs have a lot of wiggle room for the race director's discretion. Mercedes didn't even appeal their protest at Abu Dhabi 2021 that cost Hamilton the WDC. The only thing that came out of it was Michael Masi's head on a plate.

 

[The Gator]

@Skipdog77 look at what happened to Russell …got hosed twice being the second car in the stack. Zack would never do that to Lando….he’d rather Max win than make that decision. Gutless

 

[northern exposure]

It makes no sense for hyper-competitive teams who'll stop at nothing to scratch out the tiniest advantage to intentionally spice up the show to benefit Liberty and the FIA. There have been other years where performance changes during the season cause a tighter championship battle than would have been expected at mid-year.

McLaren just screwed up; they placed too high of a value on the strategic flexibility of not being forced into two 25 lap stints. They also probably expected other teams would think the same and there would be more traffic between them and Verstappen on the road. They had enough of a gap to double stack although there would have been the risk for Norris of getting a delayed pit exit that ruined Russell's evening.

Granted the question about fixing the outcome doesn't hold as much water after the strategic mistake by McLaren in the latest race. But, the double DQ of the McLaren drivers in the previous race looks pretty suspicious now.

McLaren admitted their mistake on the ride height post-race in LV, and were actively trying to mitigate it during the race on the radio with both drivers to try and keep them in compliance. How are you pulling a FIA conspiracy theory out of that?

There seem to be questionable rulings during every race in terms of time penalties, etc. So, does McClaren choose to take their lumps in the LV race and maintain their drivers leading the standings? Or protest and face further wrath in the remaining two races?
#devilsadvocate

Rulings on violations of the technical regs are black and white, the plank had too much wear. There's no basis for a McLaren protest unless they say the bright lights of Vegas somehow affected the measurements.

Protests against steward's decisions are rarely successful. The sporting regs have a lot of wiggle room for the race director's discretion. Mercedes didn't even appeal their protest at Abu Dhabi 2021 that cost Hamilton the WDC. The only thing that came out of it was Michael Masi's head on a plate.

Yes, the technical regs are black and white. But, the in the race time and position penalties seem to have a lot of grey in them. I guess that's true in every sport. For example,in football, a pass interference call gets made one play and not another.

 

[Skipdog77]

@Skipdog77 look at what happened to Russell …got hosed twice being the second car in the stack. Zack would never do that to Lando….he’d rather Max win than make that decision. Gutless

Oh, I fully believe McLaren (well, Zack) wants Lando to win over Oscar, no argument there.

 

[Eephus]

In Formula 2 news, Leo Fornaroli clinched the title with a race weekend to spare. He won the championship as a rookie following his 2024 F3 championship. In a working ladder system this would position him for a F1 seat but again this year, it's not the case. Fornaroli has never been affiliated with a F1 team's juniors program and hasn't had test time in a F1 car.

He'll probably get added to some team as a test driver or he'll go to Formula E. I hope we'll see him in F1 someday but teams are always looking for outright pace so Leo's consistent approach might be better suited for sports cars.

The current F2 driver with the best chance to make the leap is Red Bull's Arvid Lindblad. I think he needs another year of experience but that's partially because I want to see Yuki stay in F1.

 

[Sammy3469]

@Skipdog77 look at what happened to Russell …got hosed twice being the second car in the stack. Zack would never do that to Lando….he’d rather Max win than make that decision. Gutless

That's the thing though. Lando was behind Max at the time. Once Max goes to the pits, at a minumum, they have to have Lando mark him since he's not giving up anything by doing so and not really gaining anything by staying out (as pitting later puts him potentially in an aero train). It wasn't like they were 1-2 and past the pits when Max went in. It was just an complete blunder especially since they should have simmed and talked through this this exact scenario since something on lap 7 sets you to the end with one more stop.

 

[Eephus]

@Skipdog77 look at what happened to Russell …got hosed twice being the second car in the stack. Zack would never do that to Lando….he’d rather Max win than make that decision. Gutless

That's the thing though. Lando was behind Max at the time. Once Max goes to the pits, at a minumum, they have to have Lando mark him since he's not giving up anything by doing so and not really gaining anything by staying out (as pitting later puts him potentially in an aero train). It wasn't like they were 1-2 and past the pits when Max went in. It was just an complete blunder especially since they should have simmed and talked through this this exact scenario since something on lap 7 sets you to the end with one more stop.

I assumed the team wargamed this scenario prior to the race and keeping both cars out was their plan in the event of an early safety car. I wonder if they would have done things differently if Pirelli's 25 lap limit wasn't in play. The team radio messages talked about flexibility like it was some big deal but it turned out to be worthless in the end.

The strategy seemed more geared towards the championship than in winning the grand prix. In the latter case, the team would have split their strategy to cover Red Bull.

 

[The Gator]

Scenerio


Max p1, Russell p2, Oscar p3, Lando p4


McLaren order a driver swap at the end of the race. Does Oscar do it?

 

[zoobird]

Scenerio


Max p1, Russell p2, Oscar p3, Lando p4


McLaren order a driver swap at the end of the race. Does Oscar do it?

Why not at that point. More interesting question is if Lando’s car is clearly faster, would they order a swap earlier in the race to help him move up without a slower piastri in the way?

 

[Sammy3469]

@Skipdog77 look at what happened to Russell …got hosed twice being the second car in the stack. Zack would never do that to Lando….he’d rather Max win than make that decision. Gutless

That's the thing though. Lando was behind Max at the time. Once Max goes to the pits, at a minumum, they have to have Lando mark him since he's not giving up anything by doing so and not really gaining anything by staying out (as pitting later puts him potentially in an aero train). It wasn't like they were 1-2 and past the pits when Max went in. It was just an complete blunder especially since they should have simmed and talked through this this exact scenario since something on lap 7 sets you to the end with one more stop.

I assumed the team wargamed this scenario prior to the race and keeping both cars out was their plan in the event of an early safety car. I wonder if they would have done things differently if Pirelli's 25 lap limit wasn't in play. The team radio messages talked about flexibility like it was some big deal but it turned out to be worthless in the end.

The strategy seemed more geared towards the championship than in winning the grand prix. In the latter case, the team would have split their strategy to cover Red Bull.

But that's the thing...in this particular scenario, once Lando is behind Max, winning the championship was aligned with the GP since you have to minimize points lost. Even if Max won both races, the only thing that undoes Lando is either a DNF or finishing 4th or worse in both races (I think I have my math correct there). By keeping Lando out, they increase the variance of results between Lando and Max which is what they don't want.

And it wasn't like this is an unusual F1 scenario especially on a track that isn't easy to pass on. Early safety car and the vast majority of the field come in if its a 2 stop race.

 

[Sammy3469]

Scenerio


Max p1, Russell p2, Oscar p3, Lando p4


McLaren order a driver swap at the end of the race. Does Oscar do it?

Why not at that point. More interesting question is if Lando’s car is clearly faster, would they order a swap earlier in the race to help him move up without a slower piastri in the way?

Lots of conjecture that Mark Webber will tell Piastri not to help for politics within McLaren.

 

[Eephus]

Scenerio


Max p1, Russell p2, Oscar p3, Lando p4


McLaren order a driver swap at the end of the race. Does Oscar do it?

Why not at that point. More interesting question is if Lando’s car is clearly faster, would they order a swap earlier in the race to help him move up without a slower piastri in the way?

Lots of conjecture that Mark Webber will tell Piastri not to help for politics within McLaren.

This scenario doesn't really help Piastri in either the short or long term. He obviously wants the WDC for himself but if that's not happening, he'll do what he asked to keep to keep the trophy in Woking.

 

[The Gator]

Lando just needs to wipe out Max and Oscar in turn one so they all DNF

 

[Eephus]

Lando just needs to wipe out Max and Oscar in turn one so they all DNF

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