Official Great Works Draft (5 Viewers)

[Tirnan]

18.02 PHILOSOPHICAL / POLITICAL IDEA - Ethics as introduced by Socrates

And so this is where trying to judge this category gets too close to impossible. I knew it was coming, mind you. And expected it to be soon. But still, when it happens.........The more I think about this category the more I will be looking to alot of input on tiers when the time comes.

I have other back up picks I could swap in. Didn't mean to create difficulties... I just angled off toward Philosophy as my favored political doctrines are already gone. I like to think of it as the way back play. Without ethics and a reasoning argument about the good of many vs the good of one or from another slant the inherent god of action vs inaction, we never would have developed some of our modern political systems.Mind you ascribing it to Socrates is somewhat of a shot in the dark. Discussion on the topic predates Socrates, but he named it and formalized it to the point that led to many future ideologies and philosophies stemming from the debate over ethics.

I R teh antz in YF23's picynic basqet

 

[Genedoc]

Do I owe anymore than these two picks?

18.16 - Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves, Short Story [1]

19.5 - Gone With the Wind, Movie [4]

GWTW is a solid pick up here....

 

[TidesofWar]

Regarding this film/documentary/TV debate, I just want to say PEOPLE! PLEASE! Let's not sway from Tim's vision.

We already swayed from wikkidpissah's vision. If we sway from Tim's vision too, then soon we'll be swaying from my vision, and nobody will see topless women on the internet again. While eating Mac n Cheese topped by Oscar Mayer Beef dogsLet's not start down that slippery slope.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Also, any new issues or decisions come up today that all drafters need to be made aware of?

Well.. one of Knuke's eyelids are jammed, and we need a live chicken?.. live chicken to get the hex off of Jose's glove, and nobody seems to kno what to get Jimmy or Millie for their wedding present. We are dealing with a lotta #### out here.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

18.02 PHILOSOPHICAL / POLITICAL IDEA - Ethics as introduced by Socrates

And so this is where trying to judge this category gets too close to impossible. I knew it was coming, mind you. And expected it to be soon. But still, when it happens.........The more I think about this category the more I will be looking to alot of input on tiers when the time comes.

I have other back up picks I could swap in. Didn't mean to create difficulties... I just angled off toward Philosophy as my favored political doctrines are already gone. I like to think of it as the way back play. Without ethics and a reasoning argument about the good of many vs the good of one or from another slant the inherent god of action vs inaction, we never would have developed some of our modern political systems.Mind you ascribing it to Socrates is somewhat of a shot in the dark. Discussion on the topic predates Socrates, but he named it and formalized it to the point that led to many future ideologies and philosophies stemming from the debate over ethics.

I R teh antz in YF23's picynic basqet

No, there's no need to justify. It's just going to be a hard and hell category to rank.

 

[anborn]

Do I owe anymore than these two picks?

18.16 - Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves, Short Story [1]

19.5 - Gone With the Wind, Movie [4]

GWTW is a solid pick up here....

I was thinking the same... but more so about Ali Baba.

 

[rodg12]

Do I owe anymore than these two picks?

Should be good.

Also, any new issues or decisions come up today that all drafters need to be made aware of?

MfB tried to take The Immaculate Reception by Franco Harris as a Play and was summarily overturned by tim and krista. Chaos ensued, however.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Gone With the Wind is a truly remarkable movie. There are so many stories in it that are told, and each one done well, that you could watch it over and over and never focus on the same one twice. Add to that the acting which gets better as the movie goes on and it's a hell of a movie.

 

[rodg12]

Also, any new issues or decisions come up today that all drafters need to be made aware of?

Well.. one of Knuke's eyelids are jammed, and we need a live chicken?.. live chicken to get the hex off of Jose's glove, and nobody seems to kno what to get Jimmy or Millie for their wedding present. We are dealing with a lotta #### out here.

Candlesticks always make a nice gift. Maybe look up where they're registered and get them a place setting or somesuch. Let's get two......

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Also, any new issues or decisions come up today that all drafters need to be made aware of?

Well.. one of Knuke's eyelids are jammed, and we need a live chicken?.. live chicken to get the hex off of Jose's glove, and nobody seems to kno what to get Jimmy or Millie for their wedding present. We are dealing with a lotta #### out here.

Candlesticks always make a nice gift. Maybe look up where they're registered and get them a place setting or somesuch. Let's get two......

 

[Genedoc]

Also, any new issues or decisions come up today that all drafters need to be made aware of?

Well.. one of Knuke's eyelids are jammed, and we need a live chicken?.. live chicken to get the hex off of Jose's glove, and nobody seems to kno what to get Jimmy or Millie for their wedding present. We are dealing with a lotta #### out here.

Candlesticks always make a nice gift. Maybe look up where they're registered and get them a place setting or somesuch. Let's get two......

It's unfortunate, but I believe there are some lollygaggers amongst us.

 

[timschochet]

Missing picks:

18th round:

Misfit Blondes

El Floppo

Tides of War

19th round:

Fennis

 

[rodg12]

Do I owe anymore than these two picks?

Should be good.

Also, any new issues or decisions come up today that all drafters need to be made aware of?

MfB tried to take The Immaculate Reception by Franco Harris as a Play and was summarily overturned by tim and krista. Chaos ensued, however.

To be fair, Krista agreed to support Tim's decision but he hadn't actually said anything other than "no" which wasn't a good enough reason.

Two 'no's from our three-headed triumvirate equals an overturned pick. That's the way it works. This was agreed to long ago.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

pretty sure that

Franco Harris > Shakespeare

 

[timschochet]

pretty sure that

Franco Harris > Shakespeare

This is actually true, though it's a little known fact that both were Steelers. From Wikipedia:William "The Bard of Staten Island" Shakespeare (September 27, 1912 - January 17, 1974) was an American football player.

An All-American halfback and punter out of Notre Dame, Bill Shakespeare appeared as himself in one feature film, The Big Game (1936). He was drafted third overall in the 1936 NFL Draft by the Pittsburgh Steelers, but never played a game in the NFL.

 

[Tirnan]

Postradamus, you're our judge of novels, so that means it is left to me to judge The Decameron. And it is a masterwork. My only caution is I'm not really sure it's a novel. I'm not disallowing it; since you as our category judge took it, I will accept it. But I have to think about how to compare it to more traditional "novels".

Wiki says it's a collection of novellas...but really this isn't any different than me drafting Canterbury Tales as a poem. The stories are all within a frame narrative and each is relevant to the other. It reads like a novel would. I don't see where else this could be placed.

Yeah, that make sense. Either way, it's going to get a high ranking- so will your other novel. Well done so far!

This level of favoritism is sickening.

I willing to hear arguments from those who think I shouldn't be able to pick it, but this is nowhere near the Immaculate Reception Debacle of '09 IMO.

I'm ok with it. Then again I chose Aesop's Fables early on and it falls in the same framework issue. If yours needs to move I'll voluntarily move mine into the same category.

 

[rodg12]

Two 'no's from our three-headed triumvirate equals an overturned pick. That's the way it works. This was agreed to long ago.

A "no" from someone who stated that he thought I was making a mockery of the draft and then felt no need to discuss it is completely unacceptable when others have indicated that they believe I made the choice in good faith. Tim was only overruling my choice out of spite and has said he would not engage in any discussion because of what he falsely believes. I clearly explained my side and said I would remove the selection if it was deemed to be in violation of the rules of the draft. As it stands, all Tim has done is to say he won't discuss it and went on to call anyone who has a fool. Tim is not open to discussion on my selection but had no problem having a quick discussion on a novel vs novella and then went so far as to say it was worthy of a high ranking when, not more than a couple of posts previous, he wasn't even sure it should be allowed. To me, Tim is being completely biased and stubborn and has no business running this draft if he is unwilling to open up to any discussion.

It's still a no. Again, two 'no's means an overturned pick.

 

[Tirnan]

Could be an acceptable wildcard pick I would think, but I foresee controversy brewing as I catch up on my readings.

Should we go back and delete our posts to disappoint him?

It's like that time in college where you and your buddies were at a bar/party somesuch and you had to go to the can, only to get in there and find the most disgusting mess you've ever seen - or in the alternative you left the mess - and then you hear your friend say that they have to go to the bathroom as well.You giggle a little and wait for the ensuing screaming.

Well controversy may have been an understatement. I still like it as a wildcard, but I find it hard to beat the Apollo program if I was judging just the 2 side by side.

 

[El Floppo]

Abrantes pick via PM:

18.15 Bete Giyorgis, Lalibela (Building/Structure)

I could've likely waited on this one for a while longer, but it's just so damn cool that I refuse to. This cross-shaped marvel was painstakingly carved and built out of the ground itself. One solid pillar of stone. I can scarcely imagine how long it took or how detailed their work had to be. A testament to human faith and dedication.

The Church of St. George (Amharic: Bete Giyorgis?) is a monolithic church in Lalibela, Amhara Region, Ethiopia. It is the most well known and last built (early thirteenth century) of the eleven churches in the Lalibela area, and has been referred to as the "Eighth Wonder of the World". The dimensions of the complex are 25 meters by 25 meters by 30 meters, and there is a small baptismal pool outside the church, which stands in an artificial trench.

According to Ethiopian cultural history, Bete Giyorgis was built after King Gebre Mesqel Lalibela of the Zagwe dynasty had a vision in which he was instructed to construct the church; Saint George and God have both been referred to as the one who gave him the instructions.

As of 2006, Lalibela is still a pilgrimage site for members of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church; the church itself is part of the UNESCO World Heritage Site "Rock-Hewn Churches, Lalibela".

View from aboveBete Giyorgis

Wider shot

I have never, ever seen this. Not at all a reflection on how I'll judge- but I'm stunned and happy to be learning something new here in my own field.

 

[rodg12]

Two 'no's from our three-headed triumvirate equals an overturned pick. That's the way it works. This was agreed to long ago.

A "no" from someone who stated that he thought I was making a mockery of the draft and then felt no need to discuss it is completely unacceptable when others have indicated that they believe I made the choice in good faith. Tim was only overruling my choice out of spite and has said he would not engage in any discussion because of what he falsely believes. I clearly explained my side and said I would remove the selection if it was deemed to be in violation of the rules of the draft. As it stands, all Tim has done is to say he won't discuss it and went on to call anyone who has a fool. Tim is not open to discussion on my selection but had no problem having a quick discussion on a novel vs novella and then went so far as to say it was worthy of a high ranking when, not more than a couple of posts previous, he wasn't even sure it should be allowed. To me, Tim is being completely biased and stubborn and has no business running this draft if he is unwilling to open up to any discussion.

It's still a no. Again, two 'no's means an overturned pick.

Not in this case. Tim has not shown why the selection should be disallowed. It fits the criteria of "play" and it shall remain in that category until he can show me why it should be removed.

Ridiculous. Simply ridiculous.Doug B - can we please get a ruling on this from you??? Maybe that will allow things to move on....

 

[El Floppo]

Oh goody I get to pick. A fitting selection for the current state of the draft:

In the state of nature, every man has a right to every thing, even to one another's body but the second law is that, in order to secure the advantages of peace, that a man be willing, when others are so too… to lay down this right to all things; and be contented with so much liberty against other men as he would allow other men against himself.



18.18 Leviathan - Thomas Hobbes -Non-Fiction

Wiki

Leviathan, The Matter, Forme and Power of a Common Wealth Ecclesiasticall and Civil, commonly called Leviathan, is a book written by Thomas Hobbes which was published in 1651. It is titled after the biblical Leviathan. The book concerns the structure of society and legitimate government, and is regarded as one of the earliest and most influential examples of social contract theory.

Boo. (yay)

 

[timschochet]

A "no" from someone who stated that he thought I was making a mockery of the draft and then felt no need to discuss it is completely unacceptable when others have indicated that they believe I made the choice in good faith. Tim was only overruling my choice out of spite and has said he would not engage in any discussion because of what he falsely believes. I clearly explained my side and said I would remove the selection if it was deemed to be in violation of the rules of the draft. As it stands, all Tim has done is to say he won't discuss it and went on to call anyone who has a fool. Tim is not open to discussion on my selection but had no problem having a quick discussion on a novel vs novella and then went so far as to say it was worthy of a high ranking when, not more than a couple of posts previous, he wasn't even sure it should be allowed. To me, Tim is being completely biased and stubborn and has no business running this draft if he is unwilling to open up to any discussion.

I have had enough of this. I fully explained myself in detail in post #4263. I see no reason to repeat myself. I was backed up by Krista, and there is no point in further debate on this matter. I acknowledge there are some other drafters who are disagree with me about your motives; so be it. Your motives were not my reason for vetoing your pick, and I have yet to encounter one other drafter or regular contributor to this thread who thinks that I made the wrong decision in my veto. I don't mind being sniped at but there is a limit. I apologized to you once before when I thought I was being unfair to you, but I will not apologize this time. Your continual complaining about this has made this draft no fun for me. I'm asking you please to stop; the decision is made, and nothing more is going to be done about it. If you want to persist in this, then I will ask you to leave the draft. If you refuse that as well, then I will strongly consider leaving as I don't really want to engage with you any longer over this issue.

 

[Tirnan]

Do I owe anymore than these two picks?

18.16 - Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves, Short Story [1]

19.5 - Gone With the Wind, Movie [4]

GWTW is a solid pick up here....

I was thinking the same... but more so about Ali Baba.

great pick in GWTW, it was on my list. Your Ali Baba pick hoses me out of another selection on my short list, but I still like it.

 

[El Floppo]

I'm still here waiting for cab; I can post, Big Rocks.

I'm really struggling with the poem category, because there are a few other modern poets whose work I'd like to recognize, but I also don't feel like I can let this one pass me by.

Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,

Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,

Silence the pianos and with muffled drum

Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.

Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead

Scribbling on the sky the message He is Dead.

Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves,

Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves.

He was my North, my South, my East and West,

My working week and my Sunday rest,

My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;

I thought that love would last forever: I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one,

Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun,

Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood;

For nothing now can ever come to any good.

For my selection, I choose the most beautiful representation of the devastation of human loss ever written:

18.20 Funeral Blues - W.H. Auden (poem)

Please ignore the fact that it was read in Four Weddings as a Funeral. Interesting tidbit, though--the first two stanzas were originally written as satire on the death of a politician.

An excerpt of tha was in the NYC poetry in Motion series on the subways... first time I had seen it, and now first time I'm seeing it in it's entirety. Beautiful.

 

[Doug B]

A "no" from someone who stated that he thought I was making a mockery of the draft and then felt no need to discuss it is completely unacceptable when others have indicated that they believe I made the choice in good faith. Tim was only overruling my choice out of spite and has said he would not engage in any discussion because of what he falsely believes. I clearly explained my side and said I would remove the selection if it was deemed to be in violation of the rules of the draft. As it stands, all Tim has done is to say he won't discuss it and went on to call anyone who has a fool. Tim is not open to discussion on my selection but had no problem having a quick discussion on a novel vs novella and then went so far as to say it was worthy of a high ranking when, not more than a couple of posts previous, he wasn't even sure it should be allowed. To me, Tim is being completely biased and stubborn and has no business running this draft if he is unwilling to open up to any discussion.

Misfit -- there's no way you were thinking this was going to go through, did you?Why is everyone trying to paint the corners around here? Just pick the category

 

[Abrantes]

Abrantes pick via PM:

18.15 Bete Giyorgis, Lalibela (Building/Structure)

I could've likely waited on this one for a while longer, but it's just so damn cool that I refuse to. This cross-shaped marvel was painstakingly carved and built out of the ground itself. One solid pillar of stone. I can scarcely imagine how long it took or how detailed their work had to be. A testament to human faith and dedication.

The Church of St. George (Amharic: Bete Giyorgis?) is a monolithic church in Lalibela, Amhara Region, Ethiopia. It is the most well known and last built (early thirteenth century) of the eleven churches in the Lalibela area, and has been referred to as the "Eighth Wonder of the World". The dimensions of the complex are 25 meters by 25 meters by 30 meters, and there is a small baptismal pool outside the church, which stands in an artificial trench.

According to Ethiopian cultural history, Bete Giyorgis was built after King Gebre Mesqel Lalibela of the Zagwe dynasty had a vision in which he was instructed to construct the church; Saint George and God have both been referred to as the one who gave him the instructions.

As of 2006, Lalibela is still a pilgrimage site for members of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church; the church itself is part of the UNESCO World Heritage Site "Rock-Hewn Churches, Lalibela".

View from aboveBete Giyorgis

Wider shot

I have never, ever seen this. Not at all a reflection on how I'll judge- but I'm stunned and happy to be learning something new here in my own field.

 

[El Floppo]

I was looking through the inventions and was very surprised that this pick was not taken, especially by Scott Norwood, who has informed us that he is a direct descendent of James Watt.

18.17 The Steam Engine (Invention).

This is the invention that changed the world, brought about he Industrial Revolution, and the rise of both the British Empire and the United States of America as world economic powers. It is the basis for what historian Paul Johnson calls, "The Birth of the Modern", meaning modern society. A clear line in human history can be drawn before the modern steam engine and afterwards, and this makes it, IMO, one of the top 3-4 inventions of all time.

I've had that one in the chute for close to 10 rounds but kept waiting for lack of sex appeal. It's one of the steals o' draft, IMO.

 

[Tirnan]

Abrantes pick via PM:

18.15 Bete Giyorgis, Lalibela (Building/Structure)

I could've likely waited on this one for a while longer, but it's just so damn cool that I refuse to. This cross-shaped marvel was painstakingly carved and built out of the ground itself. One solid pillar of stone. I can scarcely imagine how long it took or how detailed their work had to be. A testament to human faith and dedication.

The Church of St. George (Amharic: Bete Giyorgis?) is a monolithic church in Lalibela, Amhara Region, Ethiopia. It is the most well known and last built (early thirteenth century) of the eleven churches in the Lalibela area, and has been referred to as the "Eighth Wonder of the World". The dimensions of the complex are 25 meters by 25 meters by 30 meters, and there is a small baptismal pool outside the church, which stands in an artificial trench.

According to Ethiopian cultural history, Bete Giyorgis was built after King Gebre Mesqel Lalibela of the Zagwe dynasty had a vision in which he was instructed to construct the church; Saint George and God have both been referred to as the one who gave him the instructions.

As of 2006, Lalibela is still a pilgrimage site for members of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church; the church itself is part of the UNESCO World Heritage Site "Rock-Hewn Churches, Lalibela".

View from aboveBete Giyorgis

Wider shot

I have never, ever seen this. Not at all a reflection on how I'll judge- but I'm stunned and happy to be learning something new here in my own field.

This was a new one to me as well. Phenomenal pick and thanks for sharing something that I hadn't heard of.

 

[rodg12]

skipped picks

18.07 Misfitblondes - needs a repick

18.09 Mister CIA - auto skip remainder of draft

18.10 El Floppo - autoskip (this turn only)

18.13 Tides of War

19.01 Fennis - time out

19.06 Abrantes - Up

19.07 BobbyLayne - On Deck

19.08 Tides of War - (Autoskip)

19.09 Wikkidpissah - In The Hole

19.10 Thatguy

19.11 El Floppo

19.12 Team CIA

19.13 Uncle Humana

19.14 Misfit Blondes

19.15 Bob Lee Swagger

19.16 Scott Norwood

19.17 DC Thunder

19.18 Genedoc

19.19 Tirnan

19.20 Yankee23Fan

20.01 Yankee23Fan

20.02 Tirnan

20.03 Genedoc

20.04 DC Thunder

20.05 ScottNorwood

 

[flysack]

The Decameron is NOT a novel.

That said, I don't give a F!@#. I really don't.

 

[Bonzai]

A "no" from someone who stated that he thought I was making a mockery of the draft and then felt no need to discuss it is completely unacceptable when others have indicated that they believe I made the choice in good faith. Tim was only overruling my choice out of spite and has said he would not engage in any discussion because of what he falsely believes. I clearly explained my side and said I would remove the selection if it was deemed to be in violation of the rules of the draft. As it stands, all Tim has done is to say he won't discuss it and went on to call anyone who has a fool. Tim is not open to discussion on my selection but had no problem having a quick discussion on a novel vs novella and then went so far as to say it was worthy of a high ranking when, not more than a couple of posts previous, he wasn't even sure it should be allowed. To me, Tim is being completely biased and stubborn and has no business running this draft if he is unwilling to open up to any discussion.

I have had enough of this. I fully explained myself in detail in post #4263. I see no reason to repeat myself. I was backed up by Krista, and there is no point in further debate on this matter. I acknowledge there are some other drafters who are disagree with me about your motives; so be it. Your motives were not my reason for vetoing your pick, and I have yet to encounter one other drafter or regular contributor to this thread who thinks that I made the wrong decision in my veto. I don't mind being sniped at but there is a limit. I apologized to you once before when I thought I was being unfair to you, but I will not apologize this time. Your continual complaining about this has made this draft no fun for me. I'm asking you please to stop; the decision is made, and nothing more is going to be done about it. If you want to persist in this, then I will ask you to leave the draft. If you refuse that as well, then I will strongly consider leaving as I don't really want to engage with you any longer over this issue.

Don't even try, Tim. You were backed by Krista before you gave any reasoning and you still haven't explained how the selection fails to meet the criteria of "play" so don't try and act like you had full support on something when you hadn't even attempted to explain anything before that point. If you are going to make blind rulings without any actual real debate then you may as well ignore anything I select in the future since I won't be paying any attention to what you have to say. Once again, your ideas of what should be selected are not being met and you pout. You can leave the selection empty or put my selection in as I will not be removing it until you are willing to show me why it does not belong in the category. What you "meant" and what became reality are two different things and the only reason you are unwilling to entertain something outside the norm is because you had your vision and it is now compromised.

Jesus.Who has the energy for this ####?

 

[El Floppo]

re: The Franco Harris "it's fun to play with words" nonsense... interesting that the :e: street band showed up just as this all went down. Fan of most of their work, but the "lets go and laugh at somebody being too serious" schtick is less than I expected from that gang, even if that is pretty much the only thing other than pRon I've seen over there. (not that I look at the pron... )

 

[flysack]

A "no" from someone who stated that he thought I was making a mockery of the draft and then felt no need to discuss it is completely unacceptable when others have indicated that they believe I made the choice in good faith. Tim was only overruling my choice out of spite and has said he would not engage in any discussion because of what he falsely believes. I clearly explained my side and said I would remove the selection if it was deemed to be in violation of the rules of the draft. As it stands, all Tim has done is to say he won't discuss it and went on to call anyone who has a fool. Tim is not open to discussion on my selection but had no problem having a quick discussion on a novel vs novella and then went so far as to say it was worthy of a high ranking when, not more than a couple of posts previous, he wasn't even sure it should be allowed. To me, Tim is being completely biased and stubborn and has no business running this draft if he is unwilling to open up to any discussion.

I have had enough of this. I fully explained myself in detail in post #4263. I see no reason to repeat myself. I was backed up by Krista, and there is no point in further debate on this matter. I acknowledge there are some other drafters who are disagree with me about your motives; so be it. Your motives were not my reason for vetoing your pick, and I have yet to encounter one other drafter or regular contributor to this thread who thinks that I made the wrong decision in my veto. I don't mind being sniped at but there is a limit. I apologized to you once before when I thought I was being unfair to you, but I will not apologize this time. Your continual complaining about this has made this draft no fun for me. I'm asking you please to stop; the decision is made, and nothing more is going to be done about it. If you want to persist in this, then I will ask you to leave the draft. If you refuse that as well, then I will strongly consider leaving as I don't really want to engage with you any longer over this issue.

Don't even try, Tim. You were backed by Krista before you gave any reasoning and you still haven't explained how the selection fails to meet the criteria of "play" so don't try and act like you had full support on something when you hadn't even attempted to explain anything before that point. If you are going to make blind rulings without any actual real debate then you may as well ignore anything I select in the future since I won't be paying any attention to what you have to say. Once again, your ideas of what should be selected are not being met and you pout. You can leave the selection empty or put my selection in as I will not be removing it until you are willing to show me why it does not belong in the category. What you "meant" and what became reality are two different things and the only reason you are unwilling to entertain something outside the norm is because you had your vision and it is now compromised.

Jesus.Who has the energy for this ####?

 

[rodg12]

A "no" from someone who stated that he thought I was making a mockery of the draft and then felt no need to discuss it is completely unacceptable when others have indicated that they believe I made the choice in good faith. Tim was only overruling my choice out of spite and has said he would not engage in any discussion because of what he falsely believes. I clearly explained my side and said I would remove the selection if it was deemed to be in violation of the rules of the draft. As it stands, all Tim has done is to say he won't discuss it and went on to call anyone who has a fool. Tim is not open to discussion on my selection but had no problem having a quick discussion on a novel vs novella and then went so far as to say it was worthy of a high ranking when, not more than a couple of posts previous, he wasn't even sure it should be allowed. To me, Tim is being completely biased and stubborn and has no business running this draft if he is unwilling to open up to any discussion.

Misfit -- there's no way you were thinking this was going to go through, did you?Why is everyone trying to paint the corners around here? Just pick the category

Of course I thought it would go through but I also knew there would be discussion about it and I was open and willing to make my points on why I believe it is a solid selection.

It didn't meet the intent of the category, just like the Burns documentaries didn't meet the intent of the category. You have debated your side just as the documentary folks debated their side. In the end, both were overruled with a vote from the triumvirate (with a heavy emphasis placed on the category judge's opinion). Please move the pick to WC or re-pick.

 

[El Floppo]

The Decameron is NOT a novel.That said, I don't give a F!@#. I really don't.

 

[TidesofWar]

I am no longer on autoskip

Pissed I missed GWtW because of it, and even more so that no one responded to take my pick last night - yet had plenty of time apparently today to argue.

I hated GWtW anyway.

I will have my 18.13 in a moment or two

You are all Dead To Me

 

[timschochet]

Don't even try, Tim. You were backed by Krista before you gave any reasoning and you still haven't explained how the selection fails to meet the criteria of "play" so don't try and act like you had full support on something when you hadn't even attempted to explain anything before that point. If you are going to make blind rulings without any actual real debate then you may as well ignore anything I select in the future since I won't be paying any attention to what you have to say. Once again, your ideas of what should be selected are not being met and you pout. You can leave the selection empty or put my selection in as I will not be removing it until you are willing to show me why it does not belong in the category. What you "meant" and what became reality are two different things and the only reason you are unwilling to entertain something outside the norm is because you had your vision and it is now compromised.

Guys, I'm sorry, but I quit. Maybe this is what Misfit Blondes had in mind all along; if so, he's succeeded. If someone else wants to take over, I'll watch, but I'm not going to spend all the time and effort when one of the drafters regards me in this manner. If I am at fault, so be it. If Misfit Blondes wants to drop this and promises not to draft in this manner any longer (and I don't need to define myself further) OR if he chooses to leave, I will be back. Otherwise, no.

 

[flysack]

Abrantes pick via PM:

18.15 Bete Giyorgis, Lalibela (Building/Structure)

I could've likely waited on this one for a while longer, but it's just so damn cool that I refuse to. This cross-shaped marvel was painstakingly carved and built out of the ground itself. One solid pillar of stone. I can scarcely imagine how long it took or how detailed their work had to be. A testament to human faith and dedication.

The Church of St. George (Amharic: Bete Giyorgis?) is a monolithic church in Lalibela, Amhara Region, Ethiopia. It is the most well known and last built (early thirteenth century) of the eleven churches in the Lalibela area, and has been referred to as the "Eighth Wonder of the World". The dimensions of the complex are 25 meters by 25 meters by 30 meters, and there is a small baptismal pool outside the church, which stands in an artificial trench.

According to Ethiopian cultural history, Bete Giyorgis was built after King Gebre Mesqel Lalibela of the Zagwe dynasty had a vision in which he was instructed to construct the church; Saint George and God have both been referred to as the one who gave him the instructions.

As of 2006, Lalibela is still a pilgrimage site for members of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church; the church itself is part of the UNESCO World Heritage Site "Rock-Hewn Churches, Lalibela".

View from aboveBete Giyorgis

Wider shot

I have never, ever seen this. Not at all a reflection on how I'll judge- but I'm stunned and happy to be learning something new here in my own field.

This was a new one to me as well. Phenomenal pick and thanks for sharing something that I hadn't heard of.

Interesting.

 

[Postradamus]

The Decameron is NOT a novel.

That said, I don't give a F!@#. I really don't.

Where should it go? I was under the impression novellas were placed under the novel category.Sure it's not technically a novel, but It's been cited as one of the earliest direct influences on the novel. I'll gladly move it to WC if there's dissent, but I'd rather it stay put if possible.

 

[rodg12]

A "no" from someone who stated that he thought I was making a mockery of the draft and then felt no need to discuss it is completely unacceptable when others have indicated that they believe I made the choice in good faith. Tim was only overruling my choice out of spite and has said he would not engage in any discussion because of what he falsely believes. I clearly explained my side and said I would remove the selection if it was deemed to be in violation of the rules of the draft. As it stands, all Tim has done is to say he won't discuss it and went on to call anyone who has a fool. Tim is not open to discussion on my selection but had no problem having a quick discussion on a novel vs novella and then went so far as to say it was worthy of a high ranking when, not more than a couple of posts previous, he wasn't even sure it should be allowed. To me, Tim is being completely biased and stubborn and has no business running this draft if he is unwilling to open up to any discussion.

Misfit -- there's no way you were thinking this was going to go through, did you?Why is everyone trying to paint the corners around here? Just pick the category

Of course I thought it would go through but I also knew there would be discussion about it and I was open and willing to make my points on why I believe it is a solid selection.

It didn't meet the intent of the category, just like the Burns documentaries didn't meet the intent of the category. You have debated your side just as the documentary folks debated their side. In the end, both were overruled with a vote from the triumvirate (with a heavy emphasis placed on the category judge's opinion). Please move the pick to WC or re-pick.

Show me the criteria for the "play" category.

It's not needed. It doesn't matter. The triumvirate voted. That's the way it works. The criteria for the category got adjusted mid-draft just as other criteria have been adjusted (namely the TV Show category). Everyone else accepted the ruling and moved on. You refuse to do so for whatever reason. But, please, by all means, continue to do so if you wish. Further making yourself more stubborn than tim in the process.

 

[El Floppo]

18.10 Song- What's Going On, Marvin Gaye

be back to write it up and provide an unneccessary link.

 

[TidesofWar]

18.13 - The Miracle Worker - Play - William Gibson

The Miracle Worker is a three-act play by William Gibson adapted from his 1957 Playhouse 90 teleplay of the same name. It is based on Helen Keller's autobiography The Story of My Life.

The play is set in Tuscumbia, Alabama, where an illness renders infant Helen blind, deaf, and consequently mute. Pitied and badly spoiled by her parents, she learns no discipline and grows into a wild, raging creature by the age of six. Desperate, the Kellers hire Anne Sullivan to serve as a governess and teacher for their young daughter. After several fierce battles with the little girl, Annie convinces her parents she needs two weeks alone with the child if she is to achieve any progress in her education. In that time, she teaches Helen discipline and language through the use of her fingers, a breakthrough that has a direct effect on everyone's life and the way they live it.

 

[El Floppo]

The Decameron is NOT a novel.

That said, I don't give a F!@#. I really don't.

Where should it go? I was under the impression novellas were placed under the novel category.Sure it's not technically a novel, but It's been cited as one of the earliest direct influences on the novel. I'll gladly move it to WC if there's dissent, but I'd rather it stay put if possible.

What was the ruling on Dubliners?

 

[timschochet]

It's not needed. It doesn't matter. The triumvirate voted. That's the way it works. The criteria for the category got adjusted mid-draft just as other criteria have been adjusted (namely the TV Show category). Everyone else accepted the ruling and moved on. You refuse to do so for whatever reason. But, please, by all means, continue to do so if you wish. Further making yourself more stubborn than tim in the process.

I really don't think I've been stubborn in these issues. When people have made good arguments, I have been willing to change my mind. I just don't enjoy being insulted, and I don't enjoy being put into this situation. I really don't want to quit, but I don't see how I can continue to judge if one of the drafters continually insults me and ignores our rulings- what's the point?

 

[Genedoc]

A "no" from someone who stated that he thought I was making a mockery of the draft and then felt no need to discuss it is completely unacceptable when others have indicated that they believe I made the choice in good faith. Tim was only overruling my choice out of spite and has said he would not engage in any discussion because of what he falsely believes. I clearly explained my side and said I would remove the selection if it was deemed to be in violation of the rules of the draft. As it stands, all Tim has done is to say he won't discuss it and went on to call anyone who has a fool. Tim is not open to discussion on my selection but had no problem having a quick discussion on a novel vs novella and then went so far as to say it was worthy of a high ranking when, not more than a couple of posts previous, he wasn't even sure it should be allowed. To me, Tim is being completely biased and stubborn and has no business running this draft if he is unwilling to open up to any discussion.

I have had enough of this. I fully explained myself in detail in post #4263. I see no reason to repeat myself. I was backed up by Krista, and there is no point in further debate on this matter. I acknowledge there are some other drafters who are disagree with me about your motives; so be it. Your motives were not my reason for vetoing your pick, and I have yet to encounter one other drafter or regular contributor to this thread who thinks that I made the wrong decision in my veto. I don't mind being sniped at but there is a limit. I apologized to you once before when I thought I was being unfair to you, but I will not apologize this time. Your continual complaining about this has made this draft no fun for me. I'm asking you please to stop; the decision is made, and nothing more is going to be done about it. If you want to persist in this, then I will ask you to leave the draft. If you refuse that as well, then I will strongly consider leaving as I don't really want to engage with you any longer over this issue.

Don't even try, Tim. You were backed by Krista before you gave any reasoning and you still haven't explained how the selection fails to meet the criteria of "play" so don't try and act like you had full support on something when you hadn't even attempted to explain anything before that point. If you are going to make blind rulings without any actual real debate then you may as well ignore anything I select in the future since I won't be paying any attention to what you have to say. Once again, your ideas of what should be selected are not being met and you pout. You can leave the selection empty or put my selection in as I will not be removing it until you are willing to show me why it does not belong in the category. What you "meant" and what became reality are two different things and the only reason you are unwilling to entertain something outside the norm is because you had your vision and it is now compromised.

Please just stop or go away. I don't really care which at this point.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Two 'no's from our three-headed triumvirate equals an overturned pick. That's the way it works. This was agreed to long ago.

A "no" from someone who stated that he thought I was making a mockery of the draft and then felt no need to discuss it is completely unacceptable when others have indicated that they believe I made the choice in good faith. Tim was only overruling my choice out of spite and has said he would not engage in any discussion because of what he falsely believes. I clearly explained my side and said I would remove the selection if it was deemed to be in violation of the rules of the draft. As it stands, all Tim has done is to say he won't discuss it and went on to call anyone who has a fool. Tim is not open to discussion on my selection but had no problem having a quick discussion on a novel vs novella and then went so far as to say it was worthy of a high ranking when, not more than a couple of posts previous, he wasn't even sure it should be allowed. To me, Tim is being completely biased and stubborn and has no business running this draft if he is unwilling to open up to any discussion.

It's still a no. Again, two 'no's means an overturned pick.

Not in this case. Tim has not shown why the selection should be disallowed. It fits the criteria of "play" and it shall remain in that category until he can show me why it should be removed.

You keep arguing this like it's correct when it is the exact opposite. It doesn't fit the criteria at all and he has explaned. At this point the joke is old.

 

[Bob Lee Swagger]

18.10 Song- What's Going On, Marvin Gaye

be back to write it up and provide an unneccessary link.

Damn, I really wanted to pair this with my Sam Cooke pick. Nice one

 

[Genedoc]

Don't even try, Tim. You were backed by Krista before you gave any reasoning and you still haven't explained how the selection fails to meet the criteria of "play" so don't try and act like you had full support on something when you hadn't even attempted to explain anything before that point. If you are going to make blind rulings without any actual real debate then you may as well ignore anything I select in the future since I won't be paying any attention to what you have to say. Once again, your ideas of what should be selected are not being met and you pout. You can leave the selection empty or put my selection in as I will not be removing it until you are willing to show me why it does not belong in the category. What you "meant" and what became reality are two different things and the only reason you are unwilling to entertain something outside the norm is because you had your vision and it is now compromised.

Guys, I'm sorry, but I quit. Maybe this is what Misfit Blondes had in mind all along; if so, he's succeeded. If someone else wants to take over, I'll watch, but I'm not going to spend all the time and effort when one of the drafters regards me in this manner. If I am at fault, so be it. If Misfit Blondes wants to drop this and promises not to draft in this manner any longer (and I don't need to define myself further) OR if he chooses to leave, I will be back. Otherwise, no.

I'm not going anywhere. If you don't feel the need to explain yourself as 1) the draft moderator and 2) the judge of plays, then maybe you need to leave since you are clearly unwilling to be any benefit to my participation in this exercise. All I've asked is that you explain your decision based on the selection fitting into the category and you insist on using mockery as your basis of not allowing it.

So you're really neither going to quit or be reasonable? I wish you'd have made it clear 89 pages and more than a week ago that your goal wasn't winning or playing, but to ruin something for 19 other people.

 

[TidesofWar]

Don't even try, Tim. You were backed by Krista before you gave any reasoning and you still haven't explained how the selection fails to meet the criteria of "play" so don't try and act like you had full support on something when you hadn't even attempted to explain anything before that point. If you are going to make blind rulings without any actual real debate then you may as well ignore anything I select in the future since I won't be paying any attention to what you have to say. Once again, your ideas of what should be selected are not being met and you pout. You can leave the selection empty or put my selection in as I will not be removing it until you are willing to show me why it does not belong in the category. What you "meant" and what became reality are two different things and the only reason you are unwilling to entertain something outside the norm is because you had your vision and it is now compromised.

Guys, I'm sorry, but I quit. Maybe this is what Misfit Blondes had in mind all along; if so, he's succeeded. If someone else wants to take over, I'll watch, but I'm not going to spend all the time and effort when one of the drafters regards me in this manner. If I am at fault, so be it. If Misfit Blondes wants to drop this and promises not to draft in this manner any longer (and I don't need to define myself further) OR if he chooses to leave, I will be back. Otherwise, no.

I'm not going anywhere. If you don't feel the need to explain yourself as 1) the draft moderator and 2) the judge of plays, then maybe you need to leave since you are clearly unwilling to be any benefit to my participation in this exercise. All I've asked is that you explain your decision based on the selection fitting into the category and you insist on using mockery as your basis of not allowing it.

Lets cut the BS - we all know the Immaculate Reception is not a great work, and does not belong in the play category.Move it to WC if you are that dense, drop it and the sabotage attempt if you are interested in this at all, or get the hell out.

 

[rodg12]

It's not needed. It doesn't matter. The triumvirate voted. That's the way it works. The criteria for the category got adjusted mid-draft just as other criteria have been adjusted (namely the TV Show category). Everyone else accepted the ruling and moved on. You refuse to do so for whatever reason. But, please, by all means, continue to do so if you wish. Further making yourself more stubborn than tim in the process.

I really don't think I've been stubborn in these issues. When people have made good arguments, I have been willing to change my mind. I just don't enjoy being insulted, and I don't enjoy being put into this situation. I really don't want to quit, but I don't see how I can continue to judge if one of the drafters continually insults me and ignores our rulings- what's the point?

My statement wasn't meant to call you stubborn. Misfit called you stubborn. I was simply pointing he was acting much more stubborn than you on this.Let's just leave the pick blank and move on. Obviously my trying to reason with Misfit is not working at all. If he continues to take choices that get overruled and doesn't accept the decision, so be it.