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***Official*** Green Bay Packers Offseason Thread, v. 2014 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter smackdaddies
- Start date
Sabertooth
Footballguy
He's accomplished as a coach? Has he ever even coached anywhere else? He was an intern with the Steelers before coming to Green Bay.FavreAndAwayAnIdiot said:
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Those were my thoughts exactly. What has he done that anyone could consider him accomplished?
smackdaddies
Footballguy
so many idiots, so little timeSo that's how you get to 5k posts... Contribute nothing. Good work!
sho nuff
Footballguy
He was accomplished with GB as an LB coach.
But there is a chance we have overrated him. LIked him as a coach and he was one of the assistants I wanted to keep no matter what because I think he has potential.
But telling that over the years...you never heard of teams asking to interview him.
It was always Perry and Moss getting those requests. This year its telling that only McAdoo was interviewed.
Now...did teams realize that GB simply does not always grant permission to those they have under contract for another couple of years? I don't know.
While I didn't think Capers would go...it would not have shocked me if they did get rid of some of the assistants.
Some changes need to be made in the organization.
Most call for Capers gone. That is not going to happen.
Slocum...I can see the calls for it and agree. The coverage units simply have been so bad for years. In his defense, the return units have improved and they are solid now at K and P.
Clement...Id be fine if somehow he agreed to slide back to QB coach and they brought in a stronger OC to help McCarthy out.
But likely Van Pelt will slide in there from what I had been reading befoer McAdoo left.
The big one...whether its a change in person or a change in philosphy...strength and conditioning on this team needs to change.
But there is a chance we have overrated him. LIked him as a coach and he was one of the assistants I wanted to keep no matter what because I think he has potential.
But telling that over the years...you never heard of teams asking to interview him.
It was always Perry and Moss getting those requests. This year its telling that only McAdoo was interviewed.
Now...did teams realize that GB simply does not always grant permission to those they have under contract for another couple of years? I don't know.
While I didn't think Capers would go...it would not have shocked me if they did get rid of some of the assistants.
Some changes need to be made in the organization.
Most call for Capers gone. That is not going to happen.
Slocum...I can see the calls for it and agree. The coverage units simply have been so bad for years. In his defense, the return units have improved and they are solid now at K and P.
Clement...Id be fine if somehow he agreed to slide back to QB coach and they brought in a stronger OC to help McCarthy out.
But likely Van Pelt will slide in there from what I had been reading befoer McAdoo left.
The big one...whether its a change in person or a change in philosphy...strength and conditioning on this team needs to change.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
After watching Seattle, it's pretty evident the Packers are quite a ways off in terms of overall talent level. I think the offense is fine. The defense needs an impact player at safety and holy hell do they need pass rushers. Look at the safeties playing in the NFCC game. Packers have nothing close to any of those players. They also need to view Matthews as a luxury and not a player to build the defense around. He's just not able to answer the bell enough. Misses way too many snaps and games. I'd actually consider trading him as he's really the only valuable player outside of Rodgers that the Packers could trade. I know this won't happen but the point is they need at least 2 more guys in the front seven that can bring heat.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
He was a great player no doubt but the Packers linebacking corps have stunk since he got there.
sho nuff
Footballguy
You realize he is not the overall LB coach right?
But to say the LB corps has stunk since he got there is pretty strange given he has worked with Matthews, And what else has he been given?
An on again off again hurt Perry...Dezman Moses? Mike Neal's conversion went better than probably anyone would have imagined.
So what all bad things has Greene done to the LB corps?
smackdaddies
Footballguy
Outside of Mathews, Packers LB have been generally pedestrian. Not bad, but not great. And in a 3-4 defence, you need better than pedestrian, in particular when your dline is just barely better than pedestrian.
Pipes
Footballguy
This. I've been hard on Capers the past few years but I don't think it really matters who their defensive coach is with the talent level they have on defense. The defensive line is ho hum. I like Jolly but the rest are just meh. The LB's other than Matthews can go as far as I'm concerned. Hawk's o.k. but he's not an impact player. This group needs to be more physical as a whole. The CB's are o.k. in coverage but they too need to be more physical. The safeties? Don't get me started....absolutely worthless.
sho nuff
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Agreed with a lot of this. LBs...they need someone opposite Hawk who is more of a play maker. We know Hawk is not. He is that OK steady guy. Need a guy like they had started in Bishop prior to the injury and departure.
Safety is such a big one. CBs, I think they will be ok. Not sure they can afford Shields, but also hard to afford letting him go. Tramon is overpaid, but he did play more physically this year than he had been since his injury.
But there is nothing in the deep part of the field since Collins got hurt.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
FavreAndAwayAnIdiot
Footballguy
The year of the Superbowl, the defense was considered one of the best in the game. They collapsed the following year, and it goes far beyond the fact that they lost Collins. Yes, it contributes to the problem, but the reasons Capers is a major part of it...
Strategic level: Drafted defensive players stop developing almost entirely after their first year. There are many examples of this and it's the single greatest reason why Green Bay has been spinning its wheels since 2010. This is a coaching issue. With the right guidance, players are expected to take natural steps each year. This doesn't happen very often under the current defensive administration.
Tactical level: Complete inability (or unwillingness) for the defensive gameplan to adjust to what the opponent's offense is running. This is why Green Bay is notorious for allowing the same guy to burn them time and time again during a game. This is almost entirely a defensive coordination issue. Example: When Kapernick is nearing 300 yards rushing on your team, at what point do you hold 8 in the box until they find another way to consistently beat you?
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smackdaddies
Footballguy
what was wrong with the Packers D against the niners in the playoffs? They played well enough (not perfect). Hyde dropped a sure interception. Bush took the wrong line on the blitz. Perhaps Capers should of not called a Blitz at that point. QB rushed for 98 yards (bad blitz, blew contain), but Gore was held to 60 yards on 20 carries. And this was with Mathews out, Neal injured on ther first series, Jolly out, Shields out. Based on the players they had left, the D played well, and the scheme was good enough.
FavreAndAwayAnIdiot
Footballguy
He usually pulls things together 2-3 games per year. They had a couple good games earlier-- at least as far as the rush defense was concerned. But again, once opponents figure it out, they adjust. Green Bay rarely did. It's point, counter-point. Capers doesn't counter very well, or often.
Anyway, it's moot now. I know I've railed on Capers to death on these forums, and that he's staying regardless. I'll try to tone it down...
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sho nuff
Footballguy
I think the rush defense was the product of a few things.
Early in the year it looked good when Jolly was fully healthy, Pickett was not gimping much and Raji playing well.
That opened up things for the LBs to make the tackles if guys even got through the LOS. It also had Hawk looking pretty good early too.
Pickett started getting gimpy with his knees...Jolly took a beating and Raji just simply was not enough of his old self either and things break down with that.
Im looking not just at Capers right now, and not calling just for people to be fired...but we do have to question some of these assistants we felt highly about around SB time.
Is Darren Perry that good? Greene is now gone. Winston Moss? Trgovac?
Whitt may be the only one that seems to live up to it sometimes. I think the CBs get a bad rap when we have no pass rush, but they also seem to be able to plug guys in and get them playing. (Hyde and Hayward being the most recent...but also getting the most out of Sam Shields early in his career and now too)
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Sam Shields almost $10M a season. Has he ever started all 16 games for Green Bay? I know he is a good player and all but it seems like a lot of money.
Year 1=15 million
year 2= 6 million
year 3=9 million
year 4= 12 million
12.5 guaranteed.
Essentially a 3 year deal....no way he gets 12 million at age 31 IMO.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
no, he started 14 games last year. Has missed 11 games in 4 seasons.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
That is going to make Alterraun Verner a very rich man!!Ministry of Pain said:
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Agree with you. Shields is getting top dollar, does he even have a Pro Bowl or All Pro under his belt? I'm just asking, have no idea if he does or not. I do appreciate the way GB takes care of the ones they draft or bring on the team. Shields is in his prime right now.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Seemed like more than I thought they would give him. He has youth and speed on his side.
But yeah...he wont see year 4 of this unless he is playing at an all pro level.
Glad to keep him, but think with the cap going up, they gave in to make sure they could keep him and overpaid.
But yeah...he wont see year 4 of this unless he is playing at an all pro level.
Glad to keep him, but think with the cap going up, they gave in to make sure they could keep him and overpaid.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I agree. Big misstep for Ted here. I mean if Revis is getting 16 millions, how in the hell is Shields worth 10? That's just overpaying. Should have let him walk IMO in favor of signing a guy like Orakpo.
Balco
Footballguy
You can make your cover men look a lot better when you can generate a rush, something the Packers could not do last year. Spend that money on any position on the front 7. Or on one of the many solid safeties available on the market.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
i love the idea of cutting Hawk and spending on some defensive guys. Not interest in an OT - or did you mean DT?
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Orakpo? Seriously? Why?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Pass rush
Balco
Footballguy
I would think they would be at least checking in on some of the OT. But Without question, the focus should be on the front seven and safety. Figures the first signing is a cb.
Raji isn't worth the veterans minimum. He was useless last year. I have no problem bringing Pickett back and scaling down his snaps. I really liked what I saw of Datone jones at UCLA. My hope is he can show those skills next year. I felt he could be a Cullen Jenkins type end. I would hope at least one NT is taken in the draft. Doesn't have to push the pocket, just someone who can hold the point.
Two inside linebackers are needed. Hawk once again was his usual terrible self, jumping on tackles 10 yards down the field. I just want a system player who maintains his responsibility and can wrap up. I think Dansby would be an awesome pickup. TT should offer 2 years 14 mil. 10 guaranteed.
Balco
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Shields has quite an injury history himself.
Balco
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
He missed 11 games in 4 years
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Balco
Footballguy
Why would you say AJ Hawk isn't going anywhere? Pro Football Focus's 42nd ranked Inside Linebacker (out of 53) deserves to remain on the roster? He should not even be a backup. Keeping him on the roster accomplishes what? We know what we get with him, a decidedly below average player.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Because, I do not think he is nearly as bad as some of you and the coaches seem to agree with me?Should not even be a backup? Yeah..that seems flat out ignorance. He would be scooped up in a second.
He is not below average IMO. Average...a solid but unspectacular player but is a leader on the field.
Cutting him and not signing Shields, you would create 2 needs on a defense that already has big needs.
AWful management
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Doesn't matter who plays corner if they can't get within 10 feet of the QB with the pass rush. Could have an all star defensive backfield and it would matter.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Hawk sucks. I'd rather bring in new blood. Hell they should draft like 5 linebackers this draft and just let the cream rise. If they allowed a true competition, Hawk would be 50/50 to make the roster.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Unless Hawk is around because TT has some bizarre sexual fetish for Hawk. Seriously, that is the only logical conclusion.
Balco
Footballguy
Cutting Hawk would leave the same need if they kept Hawk - a competent inside linebacker. He is absolutely below average.
I said earlier, having a consistent pass rush makes even an average secondary look solid. The Packers have no rush. They can't stop the run. Focusing on the front 7 would be the smarter move. The Packers desperately need two competent starting ILB's, a pass rushing OLB to take the heat off of Matthews, a starting defensive end, and a new NT.
Balco
Footballguy
There is still a need for a competent starting inside linebacker, whether Hawk is on the team or not. If the Packers want to improve their D, Hawk should not be a starter. We need a linebacker who has instincts, doesn't try to run around blocks, and who doesn't take himself out of plays because he is slow to react. I have never seen a linebacker make most of his tackles 7-10 yards downfield.
I don't think the Shields deal was terrible because Shields is a horrible corner. Rather, I think the deal was horrible because the money should have been spent on the front 7.
Generate a rush and secondary doesn't have to stay in coverage an extra 2 seconds. Stop the run, and offense won't be in 2nd and 3rd and shorts. It is a cliche, but it is true "It all starts up front".
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I suspect Shields got more than what the market rate will prove out to be, but that is the impression of an outside observer. I wanted him back, but at around 7.5 million per year. It could just be, however, that Thompson has a better take on the market. Also, not having a glaring hole there may allow them greater flexibility in the draft.
I was the original Hawk detractor. That said I thought he picked up his game somewhat last year. I do wish that the Packers linebackers were of the quality that it was a no-brainer to cut him, but right now he remains an asset.
I maintain the fantasy in my mind that Collins could return to the defensive backfield, but I agree with Thompson and McCarthy that I really do not want to see him paralyzed on the turf at Lambeau.
I am hoping that the high draft choice projects may somehow all pay dividends this year. Jones, Worthy, Perry, Sherrod and others. The injury curse is getting more than a little old.
I hate to lose the potential which is Finley, but his attitude, baggage, and now durability makes me say its time to cut bait. The frustrating thing is that he is the type that will never realize his potential until he gets the wakeup call of his original team giving up on him, but will learn from that and excel for his next team. Some guys are just like that.
I wonder about the return of Franklin and Harris. I think Kuhn is done, fan favorite or not. At most I could see a one year deal for him.
I was the original Hawk detractor. That said I thought he picked up his game somewhat last year. I do wish that the Packers linebackers were of the quality that it was a no-brainer to cut him, but right now he remains an asset.
I maintain the fantasy in my mind that Collins could return to the defensive backfield, but I agree with Thompson and McCarthy that I really do not want to see him paralyzed on the turf at Lambeau.
I am hoping that the high draft choice projects may somehow all pay dividends this year. Jones, Worthy, Perry, Sherrod and others. The injury curse is getting more than a little old.
I hate to lose the potential which is Finley, but his attitude, baggage, and now durability makes me say its time to cut bait. The frustrating thing is that he is the type that will never realize his potential until he gets the wakeup call of his original team giving up on him, but will learn from that and excel for his next team. Some guys are just like that.
I wonder about the return of Franklin and Harris. I think Kuhn is done, fan favorite or not. At most I could see a one year deal for him.
Pipes
Footballguy
I know it's not saying a lot but Shields was probably their best defensive player last year. He's just entering his prime and has speed to burn. Just losing him and getting nothing in return is a much worse option than slightly overpaying him. With the cap being a few million higher than anticipated I think some of these free agents will see monster deals. I don't think Ted just pulled a 9.5 million dollar figure out of his ###...I think that's close to the market value of a pretty damn good FA CB who's only 26 years old and has sub 4.4 speed. Hopefully Thompson addresses the DL, LB and safety positions either through FA or with high draft picks. He needs to do both IMHO with all the holes at those spots.
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